Hi. I want to try and help myself and others think about the new cards in the right angles, so I'll try to build a tier list and update it along the way, keeping up with the rationale developed in this thread of which I will try to be a fair judge (if anyone should bother to contribute). Naturally and as has been suggested any judgment we do now may be affected by what cards are revealed in the future, but nothing is stopping us from developing our rationale in parallel with card reveal. All cards have been revealed (21/04/2016). I begun this list because I simply enjoy weighing things, but I also believe this has value as a service to the community. Having said that, its not fair if I would be a judge and not be judged, therefore the main post will receive its last update before the expansion launches and will not be touched again. Until then I will work with the highly generous people contributing to this thread in order to make a final list worth betting on.
So it is my belief Blizzard is trying to make the game slower, pushing the win condition to turn 10 and beyond and releasing cards closer to the value end of the spectrum, most of them being weak in tempo. Hence I am assuming they will succeed in making C'Thun viable.
I will read and am grateful for all replies - unless I find them disrespectful - but I wont reply to all of them, not out of ill will but because I am busy with other stuff too.
Cards are to be evaluated in accordance with Standard.
Arena is not contemplated. Asterisk * means it needs special attention.
Darkshire Alchemist: This card should warrant running a copy of Embrace the Shadow in classic Priest, but you pay neutral minion value for it so it isn't tier 2 on its own.
By no means do I want this to be the ultimate authority on WoG cards, but I do want it to be a decent table that cannot go too wrong. If you want to hear known voices on the cards like has been suggested I'd suggest you watch Kibler and later on Lifecoach's when he decides to take the time to evaluate them.
Description of the method
Cards are valuated according to rough value estimation and discussed in the thread in terms of this valuation, their playability and possible synergies. Cards that are below average or average in value and aren't seen to have any of the latter that might make up for this are deemed unplayable and categorized as being tier 4. If they are seen to not meet the first requirement but deemed to have potentially high value due to synergies (e.g. OTK) then they are categorized as tier 3. If they are good value-wise they are tier 2 and if they have very high and consistent value then they are tier 1.
These are then redistributed in terms of their playability. If the archetype exists and is very likely to continue to exist then the cards retain their tiers. If the archetype is deemed questionable then they drop a tier. If the archetype has existed in the past and is deemed to have been given enough high-value cards to exist again then they retain their tier. Finally if a new archetype is deemed very likely to come into existence because there is a fair amount of synergizing high-value cards then they retain their tier.
Final update (25/04/2016, 02:45 GMT):The main post will not be touched again. The thread is still open for discussion which has been the main reason for those who followed this thread. Thank you all for contributing and for putting up with me (which can be hard sometimes), it was lots of fun and I learned a lot while writing this list and discussing the cards with all of you. I hope you enjoyed! Wish you all the best and may the RNG gods ever favor you.
Special thanks to Garlicnerd, Haussenfuss, Guile, ShadowSpectreX, preved7, DoubleSummon and DMaster2 for the longterm and extraordinary contributions to the discussion before the final list was put together.
I think we should wait until the cards are released before we can really put them in tiers as cards will sometimes be better or worse than a lot of people claim to be (lots of people thought Mysterious Challenger wasn't going to see any play when TGT was revealing cards, and look where it is now).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
You should move Tier 4 down and make a new Tier 4. It should be for crappy cards that can still be played like Y'Shaarj and Faceless Shambler. Cards like The Boogeymonster and Tentacles for Arms should become Tier 5.
Blizzard succeeded in making a Shaman archetype viable in the last expansion but it has a very poor history behind it.
All I can say is Shaman is getting a lot of love. Hallazeal being a 4/6 you can't go wrong with it since its stats alone are worth slightly less than 5 mana. The added effect turns it into a big threat against aggro and midrange decks so it has soft taunt. The only question here is whether a slow Shaman archetype will run enough damage spells to get good value out of it. I can think of Lightning Storm but that's it. I have evaluated it as tier 1 because I believe it will be very good if a new archetype becomes successful, but as is I don't see a Shaman deck that can use this effectively.
That being said I actually like the new Shaman card more than I like the legendary. I believe it might push a slow shaman archetype into the meta by itself.
Is this april fools? Firstly this * is an asterix and this ' is an apostrophe. Secondly the only card that I suspect will never see play this expansion so far is the boogymonster. Tentacles for arms is pretty bad also but could help with fatigue. But for the rest it seems you have gone through cards that would help YOU and YOUR deck. Nzoths tentacle is good in patron warrior, renounce darkness is good in a lot of cercumstances! Thats only naming a few. You cant expect all of these cards to be good on their own. Of course, Im not going to play nzoths tentacle on an empty board, or chtun without his followers!
If you are serious about this post, you really need to think about some other decks
I believe "Asterix" is a character from French comics along with his friend "Obelix", but thank you for pointing it out. Its correct now.
You should move Tier 4 down and make a new Tier 4. It should be for crappy cards that can still be played like Y'Shaarj and Faceless Shambler. Cards like The Boogeymonster and Tentacles for Arms should become Tier 5.
Thing is I already have 5 tiers as is, I would have to eliminate tier 0 or it would become too spread out I believe : /
I do agree some cards are on a league of their own in terms of badness...
Can't add the Thing from Below link for some reason, but I've added it to the list. Downgrading Undercity Huckster to tier 1 due to value Rogue not being a thing yet. It remains my favorite card but I have to be fair about it.
Its fantastically absurd that C'Thun is only a competitive card, but Ancient Shieldbearer, a card that not only require C'thun, but also for him to be buffed to at least a certain value is considered to be as good as Dr. Boom.... You've made your entire list seem almost entirely invalid just with that.
Its fantastically absurd that C'Thun is only a competitive card, but Ancient Shieldbearer, a card that not only require C'thun, but also for him to be buffed to at least a certain value is considered to be as good as Dr. Boom.... You've made your entire list seem almost entirely invalid just with that.
I'm not sure how to reply to this... "Ancient Shieldbearer needs to be in a C'Thun deck therefore C'Thun has at least the same value as Ancient Shieldbearer" is far from a rational proposition and you start by suggesting that. I guess I'll just ignore the rest of your comment. Next time try to think things through, make rational objections and don't waste my time with nonsense.
Its fantastically absurd that C'Thun is only a competitive card, but Ancient Shieldbearer, a card that not only require C'thun, but also for him to be buffed to at least a certain value is considered to be as good as Dr. Boom.... You've made your entire list seem almost entirely invalid just with that.
On top of that, everyone will get a C'Thun and two Beckoner of Evil's when the Old Gods expansion releases. All of the other cultists revealed so far (I'm assuming we'll have more) are Common, except for Skeram Cultist which is a Rare making them fairly easy to get and craft.
Warrior's also probably one of the best classes for a C'Thun deck because of it's Control abilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
I feel you are SEVERELY undervalueing N'Zoth's First Mate. I would even go as far as to call it Tier 1. Its definitely one of the most immediately efficient 1-drops in the game and crushes aggressive decks very quickly.
I feel you are SEVERELY undervalueing N'Zoth's First Mate. I would even go as far as to call it Tier 1. Its definitely one of the most immediately efficient 1-drops in the game and crushes aggressive decks very quickly.
But how would you increase the weapon's attack? You will want to equip your "win axe" very soon to remove beefier minions. Are you thinking control?
Let's say, best case scenario, you get this out after opponent plays a 1 health minion and remove it with the weapon. Next turn you deal with a 2 health minion with the help of the 1/1. Wouldn't you rather have coined Armorsmith or Cruel Taskmaster which accomplish more in CW and removed the 2 health with Fiery War Axe or the 2/2 body?
Hi. I want to try and help myself and others think about the new cards in the right angles, so I'll try to build a tier list and update it along the way, keeping up with the rationale developed in this thread of which I will try to be a fair judge (if anyone should bother to contribute).
Naturally and as has been suggested any judgment we do now may be affected by what cards are revealed in the future, but nothing is stopping us from developing our rationale in parallel with card reveal.All cards have been revealed (21/04/2016). I begun this list because I simply enjoy weighing things, but I also believe this has value as a service to the community. Having said that, its not fair if I would be a judge and not be judged, therefore the main post will receive its last update before the expansion launches and will not be touched again. Until then I will work with the highly generous people contributing to this thread in order to make a final list worth betting on.So it is my belief Blizzard is trying to make the game slower, pushing the win condition to turn 10 and beyond and releasing cards closer to the value end of the spectrum, most of them being weak in tempo. Hence I am assuming they will succeed in making C'Thun viable.
I will read and am grateful for all replies - unless I find them disrespectful - but I wont reply to all of them, not out of ill will but because I am busy with other stuff too.
Cards are to be evaluated in accordance with Standard.
Arena is not contemplated. Asterisk * means it needs special attention.
Thus far, 16 competitive cards, 53 playable, 64 unplayable
Tier 0 - Doctorate tier, in honor of Dr. 7
Tier 1 - Competitive play
Tier 2 - Viable as structural / anti-meta
Tier 3 - Value needs compensation, e.g. Reno decks
Tier 4 - Why in heaven's ****?! Holy cow this card sucks!
By no means do I want this to be the ultimate authority on WoG cards, but I do want it to be a decent table that cannot go too wrong. If you want to hear known voices on the cards like has been suggested I'd suggest you watch Kibler and later on Lifecoach's when he decides to take the time to evaluate them.
Description of the method
Cards are valuated according to rough value estimation and discussed in the thread in terms of this valuation, their playability and possible synergies. Cards that are below average or average in value and aren't seen to have any of the latter that might make up for this are deemed unplayable and categorized as being tier 4. If they are seen to not meet the first requirement but deemed to have potentially high value due to synergies (e.g. OTK) then they are categorized as tier 3. If they are good value-wise they are tier 2 and if they have very high and consistent value then they are tier 1.
These are then redistributed in terms of their playability. If the archetype exists and is very likely to continue to exist then the cards retain their tiers. If the archetype is deemed questionable then they drop a tier. If the archetype has existed in the past and is deemed to have been given enough high-value cards to exist again then they retain their tier. Finally if a new archetype is deemed very likely to come into existence because there is a fair amount of synergizing high-value cards then they retain their tier.
Final update (25/04/2016, 02:45 GMT): The main post will not be touched again. The thread is still open for discussion which has been the main reason for those who followed this thread. Thank you all for contributing and for putting up with me (which can be hard sometimes), it was lots of fun and I learned a lot while writing this list and discussing the cards with all of you. I hope you enjoyed! Wish you all the best and may the RNG gods ever favor you.
Special thanks to Garlicnerd, Haussenfuss, Guile, ShadowSpectreX, preved7, DoubleSummon and DMaster2 for the longterm and extraordinary contributions to the discussion before the final list was put together.
I think we should wait until the cards are released before we can really put them in tiers as cards will sometimes be better or worse than a lot of people claim to be (lots of people thought Mysterious Challenger wasn't going to see any play when TGT was revealing cards, and look where it is now).
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
Mark of yshaarj bad? U drunk?
Just remember the good times!
You should move Tier 4 down and make a new Tier 4. It should be for crappy cards that can still be played like Y'Shaarj and Faceless Shambler. Cards like The Boogeymonster and Tentacles for Arms should become Tier 5.
Mark of Y'Shaarj would be really good in beast druid, I don't think it deserves to be in tier 4.
Ancient Shieldbearer is only good in C'Thun decks, tier 0 is a bit too much.
The Boogeymonster should be in a tier of his own.
Hi, thanks for replying.
Blizzard succeeded in making a Shaman archetype viable in the last expansion but it has a very poor history behind it.
All I can say is Shaman is getting a lot of love. Hallazeal being a 4/6 you can't go wrong with it since its stats alone are worth slightly less than 5 mana. The added effect turns it into a big threat against aggro and midrange decks so it has soft taunt. The only question here is whether a slow Shaman archetype will run enough damage spells to get good value out of it. I can think of Lightning Storm but that's it. I have evaluated it as tier 1 because I believe it will be very good if a new archetype becomes successful, but as is I don't see a Shaman deck that can use this effectively.
That being said I actually like the new Shaman card more than I like the legendary. I believe it might push a slow shaman archetype into the meta by itself.
Renounce Darkness is epic
I am not a Mage player, just thought my avatar would go with my name.
'How many Blizzard employees do you need to fix a lamp? It does not matter, because they cannot balance the ladder.'
Check out my homebrewn Paladin deck.
Can't add the Thing from Below link for some reason, but I've added it to the list. Downgrading Undercity Huckster to tier 1 due to value Rogue not being a thing yet. It remains my favorite card but I have to be fair about it.
Edit: nevermind they fixed it.
Added Master of Evolution. Should it be tier 0? I went for a cautious evaluation because you need a damaged minion to get the most out of it.
Unleash the Hounds + infest will be a good combo imo
Its fantastically absurd that C'Thun is only a competitive card, but Ancient Shieldbearer, a card that not only require C'thun, but also for him to be buffed to at least a certain value is considered to be as good as Dr. Boom.... You've made your entire list seem almost entirely invalid just with that.
But on top of all of that you've got Polluted Hoarder and DOOM! ranked above at least 4 cards that are actually likely to see play. Infest, Forbidden Flame, Faceless Shambler, and Cult Apothecary.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I wish you wouldn't just skip from "okay" tier to "absolute shit" tier. At least put in a "bad" tier between them.
Check out my Custom Undead Expansion!
...Or my Custom Elemental Expansion!
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
I feel you are SEVERELY undervalueing N'Zoth's First Mate. I would even go as far as to call it Tier 1. Its definitely one of the most immediately efficient 1-drops in the game and crushes aggressive decks very quickly.
Spawn of N'Zoth COULD see play as a 1 of in some Zoo decks.