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Yea I suppose so, there's only Misha and that's 1/3 odds, then there's the Camel but you don't want to be playing that because of Tunnel Trogg and Zoo players. Must be tough to make a hunter deck that works right now so its good to see some succeeding, but its still not something I would play.
I suppose a 3/4 giraffe didn't seem as funny to the devs as a 2/5 duck.
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Card Design ChampionWhat ever happened to the update to this thread? It was rather popular and had a great amount of discussion and then bam, no update as promised.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Well before considering this card I'll just point out that the first assumption taken in this thread, that blizzard would succeed in making C'Thun decks viable, was correct.
This card is the strongest reason to run Brann Bronzebeard in C'Thun Warrior. Not only that, but its harder to get rid of 2 big taunts than a single one so that this card is what often seals the game vs decks like aggro Shaman, because they need to allocate 12+ damage to get through. Its especially good vs Hunter because they often overkill each taunt by 2 points of damage.
While this card is great vs pure aggro and Hunter, it falls a bit short vs other archetypes like Dragon Warrior because they have access to 9/9s and Ragnaros. Midrange Shaman will hold on to double Lightning Storm the whole game just to get rid of these taunts and they have no better use for their AOE in this match up so its also not that great vs Mid Shaman unless they are deployed early and into a benificial board state. Its also weak to Brawl.
Is it the best card in the set as predicted? No. Is it among the best cards in the set? Yes. Since this tier was here mostly for flavor and C'Thun Warrior is a tier 1 deck I'm going to go ahead and say this one was a good prediction and give it 1 point.
1/1
Alright so N'Zoth Paladin fell out of the competitive scene and is not a tier 1 deck. N'Zoth Rogue is not a tier 1 deck either and the closest thing we have to a competitive N'Zoth deck is N'Zoth Reno Warlock. Let's not talk about N'Zoth Priest.
N'Zoth Reno Warlock is the control deck that beats every other control deck and still has a chance at winning other match ups. In the current state of the meta we cannot call it tier 1 but it is a hard counter to C'thun Warrior which is a tier 1 deck. Like Miracle Rogue, it has its place in the competitive scene, and I do not think the ladder completely defines the power of a card.
I am going to go ahead and say this was also a correct prediction and I believe we will see more of this card in the future.
2/2
Not so dreadful with Alexstrasza Kappa. C'Thun is the board control that often seals the game against aggro and the win condition vs Control if you want to run Emperor Thaurissan and Doomcaller. Its also in a tier 1 deck.
3/3
This is off by one tier. Its only annoying to deal with if you're ahead which doesn't happen very often with C'Thun Warrior.
3/4
Yogg Druid is a tier 1 deck and it owes a lot of its success to this card. This card alone was enough to bring back an old Druid archetype and make it better. Lifecoach doesn't even run Yogg in Yogg Druid, that's how good it is. I also think this is the best card in the expansion.
4/5
It turns out having the chance to Innervate a Mire Keeper or ramp twice is very powerful.
5/6
C'Thun size matters. This is perhaps the best card in C'Thun Druid. Its not a tier 1 deck but I'd say its only a deck because this card exists.
6/7
Shame on me.
6/8
I don't have to talk about this one. It does the job Eternal Sentinel was supposed to do only better.
7/9
The only reason Hunter is played but not the best card in the expansion as some would have it. Maybe the second best.
8/10
Off by one tier. Ravaging Ghoul makes this card a lot worse than it should be.
8/11
Off by a tier because Priest is a joke.
8/12
I think this was well predicted. Its funny how Cursed Blade simply loses you the game tho, but for every Cursed Blade there is a Doomhammer and a Gorehowl.
9/13
I remember how many people fought me about this card. Probably my favorite card in the set. Its good that this card is 7 mana because you can Shield Slam Ragnaros and Deathwing. Its bad that you often have to take risks to enable this card in the following turn, but if you manage these well the benefits are too good to pass. It so happens that C'Thun Warrior has a higher win rate than Control Warrior, that's how powerful Shieldbearer and Vek'lor are.
10/14
Do you believe me now? Its run twice in OTK Worgen and Dragon Warrior.
11/15
Its only really good with Preparation right? I'd say its off by a tier.
11/16
Prediction rate so far: ~70%
To be fair most cards are off by a single tier so these 70% are a bit harsh but I'll take it. I will continue this later, it took longer than expected.
You are going to rereview 132 cards now? I think you can ignore the actual crappy cards that never saw play but it's a really nice way to reflect what people (in this thread too) thought about certain cards so we can maybe rate things better next expansions.
And hey kara isn't out yet so we can rate cards int he set better.
I played this card for a while and because I had to run 2x Ancient Harbinger and 1x Deathwing for it to be any good I didn't like it. The only good thing about it was that running the old Deathwing felt good at the time because of all the Shamans. This card is bad vs Reno Warlock because of Sylvanas Windrunner into PO, and its only really good as a win condition vs Control Warrior. Its actually borderline unplayable.
11/17
If this card didn't see play in a meta that only seems to aim at flooding the board with minions then I'm going to go ahead and say it sucks.
11/18
No secrets were played, can't really evaluate this yet. But Shaman, Warrior and Druid play no secrets so its going to suck for a long time.
11/19
Not much to say about this one. Its good that it gets some damage through taunts and leaves a 2/1 on the board. Its not tier 1 since you often use it for executes and then you overpay because you only need 1 point of damage.
12/20
The good thing about it is that its cheap. Well predicted, but C'Thun is not a win condition in most cases.
13/21
C'Thun Druids seem to like it.
14/22
This card should actually be good vs Dragon Warrior on average. They can punish it with Blood To Ichor but they only run 2 of those and they still need to deal 4 damage to it but their damage comes in packs of 3. I don't understand why it doesn't see play. Maybe because there is a lot of Druid? Let's just say its bad...
14/23
I think this card is just bad sadly.
14/24
It trades and gives you a card that your opponent can't even play around lol.
15/25
Pretty damn good in N'Zoth Rogue. Against CW you can even fetch a win condition (Anub'arak).
16/26
No.
16/27
Yes. Although I don't really like meme Shaman. You could argue its a tier too high but I think we're going to see more of him.
17/27
Yea and Thing from Below.
18/28
Thing from Below is stronger and you don't mulligan for this shit so it doesn't come on 4 that often. But aggro Shaman is tier 1 and this card is undeniably strong.
18/29
No.
18/30
Yes!
19/31
I don't even know. I think its bound to become good once Paladin gets a decent 2-drop.
20/32
I play this in N'Zoth Paladin. I think its good enough even without the effect.
21/33
Good enough for Zoo but not what makes Zoo tier 1. It often combos with Abusive Sergeant leaving 2 1-healths open to Ravaging Ghoul.
22/34
Priest sucks. This card is ok. Maybe a little bit too weak.
22/35
23/36
Will have to wait and see. As predicted beast Druid wasnt good enough this adventure.
24/37
Great way to abuse board advantage vs Control.
25/38
Firebat should be proud.
26/39
Puck Firate Warrior tho.
27/40
We all know this is tier 1.
28/41
This is good but not tier 1, it falls short in a lot of match ups and you take a lot of face damage for an execute.
29/42
This is tier bananas.
29/43
This card is tier 1 because of Yogg Druid.
30/44
This is a tech card, its value depends on the meta game.
31/45
This card sucks. The 6 mana slot is too important to sacrifice for this shit.
32/46
its not unplayable...
33/47
Wtf is a Priest
33/48
This card is amazing. Its your win condition in the mirror match up. Definitely tier 1.
33/49
34/50
I'll just move fast from here and barely comment.
35/51
36/52
Yes, its tier 1! Whatever! Moving on.
36/53
Zzz.
36/54
37/55
I have been lured into this one.
37/56
Is it correct? I think so.
38/57
39/58
40/59
Its tier 2.
40/60
LUL
41/61
Its tier 2.
41/62
42/63
43/64
43/65
43/66
44/67
Saw play in Yogg Hunter.
45/68
Its at least tier 3 you can build a deck around it. I have put up a decent list myself.
45/69
52/76
Its good enough to be run in C'Thun Warrior because the deck has enough value to run bad cards and needs a 5-drop.
52/77
54/79
Sees some niche play.
54/80
59/85
This crap actually sees play in some tier 2 N'Zoth decks.
59/86
74/101
Reno Warlock.
74/102
75/103
Its at least playable.
75/104
76/105
I suppose its playable. Idiots who play Priest play it, but Priest isnt playable. I don't know.
77/106
80/109
Barely playable...
80/110
88/118
Its just really good in Control Paladin.
88/119
92/123
92/124
98/130
98/132
I don't know if I counted right I'll check later but here it is.
Prediction rate: ~75%
Next time I will not be categorizing the cards like this but at least it made it easier to estimate the prediction accuracy.
I have heard Eater of Secrets is everywhere in Wild.
Because 3/4 for 5 mana after a ping is still bad? A Divine Shield is not worth 2 mana.
I run 1 in my Divine Shield Pally alongside one Argent Squire, but honestly I don't like it much. If it goes out on turn 1 half the time I get to Divine Shield a Knife Juggler and half the time it gets pinged and ded, doing nothing.
With Menagerie Warden? Beast Druid is totally becoming a thing.
Some very minor disagreements follow, but I'd like to start by thanking you for putting so much effort and time into this. It is very nice to read.
If you count Undercity Huckster and Journey Below as being in the right tier, you should do the same with Xaril, Poisoned Mind. All three are played in the same deck(s) (always in N'zoth Rogue and rarely in Miracle) and provide decent enough value.
I have literally never played against Princess Huhuran. I don't think it's currently in the right tier, although it could become better should the meta shift. I feel like it belongs with Soggoth the Slitherer as cards that are on the verge of being played but aren't quite there yet.
Why haven't you scored a point for Blade of C'Thun? Tier 3 sounds exactly right for it - it sees some very niche play, and could become an essential cog in a C'thun Rogue. I don't think it's unplayable.
The following cards you listed as unplayable, but have all seen (or still see) a little play :
Bog Creeper (in the new Control Shaman - it essentially sees as much play as Hallazeal the Ascended right now)
Spawn of N'Zoth (in Zoo, sometimes, as a single copy)
Twilight Flamecaller (in Tempo or Reno Mages as anti-Zoo tech)
Carrion Grub (in Midrange Hunter, sometimes)
And then you have those debatable cases, whether because they are way too uncommon or belong in a deck that just doesn't work that much right now :
Wisps of the Old Gods (in Token Druid, very uncommon card, but still, I've played against it a few times on ladder)
Twisted Worgen and Stand Against Darkness (in Steward of Darkshire Paladins, a rare deck, but if you consider the Steward tier 3, you should probably give a little consideration to cards that can be played with it. Although they're both horrible cards in my opinion, I've played against them quite a few times)
Where is Silithid Swarmer? It has actually seen some very minor play, and I don't see it anywhere. The expansion has 134 cards, so with this one you'd still be missing one, but I can't spot which one.
I'd also argue Shatter and Forlorn Stalker belong in tier 4, but I guess both cards seem like they should be able to do something in the right deck.
Malkorak into Fools Bane into Violet illusionist sounds like a fun turn 10
As a Hunter main I couldn't disagree more. I've been playing Hunter with Double Grub all for the past week and have been before that and the consistency it gives you can be massive. It's also a card that can independently win you the game against Zoo which is a match-up that can normally be difficult. It's just something you need to play to believe. I honestly believe that its even a better card than Infested Wolf which has been in almost every Mid Hunter since WoG
That being said, it's pretty likely that it won't see as much play starting tomorrow since the Secret Hunters already have Cloaked Huntress, Animal Companion and Eaglehorn Bow. And because they'll have fewer Beasts they'll likely cut Houndmaster which will mean there won't be that much reason to run Infested Wolf since Wolf isn't actually that great on its own. They may even end up cutting Kill Command. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm pretty excited about tomorrow. My point is that Carrion Grub is deceptively powerful.