The fact that aggro players care so much about the opinions of rest of us, shows that they try more to convice themselves than to convice others . Just count the"aGgro TukS SkUlL" threads and the "AgGrO iS BrUdED" threads. The former will outnumber easily 3 to 1 the latter, if not more. Just play what you want and do not give a damm about what other say.
Anyway aggro as an archetype is the easiest archetype after midrange. Of course there are decks that are more skill intensive than others regardless of the archetype. Aggro is very easy and is most of the times cheap. Both are good things. The game is a casual game and if the plebs can not win unless they become good, this game's population will dwindle as high skill was never its appeal. Moreover aggro forces non aggro players to create efficient decks and punishes combo and greedy decks.
Anyway, i have no hate of smorc decks, on the contrary, they are my 3rd favourite archetype after controllock and miracle decks. But i do loathe aggro players for polluting the casual mode and doing everything in their power to make that mode toxic. I play the game since vanilla and the worst of the worst i have faced in the game all came from smorc douches in casual.
And because of that, no reasoning is possible: they'll stay in their belief.
Annoying thing is that the feeling of superiority often translates in a demand of privileges, since their superiority is not just about brains, but often moral: their playstyle is how the whole game should be and anything else is a toxic deviation...
PS: ofc i am referring only to the portion of players that believes in their snowflake superiority solely based on the decks they play.
Absolutely true. They whine everywhere about everything for three years. Blizzard clearly pushes control archetypes in last expansions because of them (just compare mech expansions, GvG and Boomsday). The duration of the game has increased threefold now and they're still unhappy. That's ridiculous.
Wtf are you talking about dude this is a aggro meta go face because we dont wanna think decks
If you're making trades in Aggro vs Control you're usually doing it wrong, unless the trades are super obvious (like trading a 3/3 into a 2/1 in order to protect your 8/2).
Not every aggro deck is face hunter and not every matchup is Aggro vs Control.
Absolutely true. They whine everywhere about everything for three years. Blizzard clearly pushes control archetypes in last expansions because of them (just compare mech expansions, GvG and Boomsday). The duration of the game has increased threefold now and they're still unhappy. That's ridiculous.
Wtf are you talking about dude this is a aggro meta go face because we dont wanna think decks
Are you writing from 2015? There are ZERO pure face decks in this meta. Every aggro deck is kinda zooish and fights for the board control. If you don't make any trades with modern aggro decks you just don't understand how these decks function. Or, what is probably the case, you just play extremely greedy lists and no one trades with you because of that. Oh, never mind, just checked your decks. "Face Hunter" with Deathstalker Rexxar and Savannah Highmane... Now I think you're trolling.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
Control decks are inherently more frustrating to play because of draw RNG and stupid polarized matchups where you queue into an unbeatable OTK deck that you can do nothing against because dirty rat isn't in standard so you just have to concede instead of wasting your time.
Aggro has slowed down a lot these days and have gotten little support in comparison to control tools. Nothing new and nerfs. Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue? They're so slow any aggro deck from the past would've eaten them alive. Compare the Turn 1-2-3 plays now of the "aggro" decks now with ones from the past. The upgraded hero powers are a lot weaker in comparison but you get consistency instead. Just look at Murloc Pally compared to Odd Pally. Murloc Tidecaller into Rockpool Hunter gives 5/6 worth of stats on Turn 2. 2 1/1 dudes can't compare. 2/2 weapon for 2 mana? Fiery Win Axe gave 3/2 for 2 mana. AND it has synergy with the rest of the deck. Aggro decks these days don't take off until Turn 3-4.
The problem is that they lump the majority of decks into the aggro category. Face, Zoo, Tempo, Token, Burn, etc. are all different in their own way, with different strengths and weaknesses, but they consider any deck that is faster than theirs aggro.
Data has been collected on this topic, and the skill ceiling on decks can be very high for decks of all types. Some aggro is brainless, some aggro is as complex as any deck.
No player is superior because of the decks they play, player are superior if they play more consistently correctly from a technical play standpoint.
In any situation on any game, there tend to be multiple lines a player can take and there are always lines that will statistically yield better results the majority of the time. Players that can identify these lines are just better players.
Playstyle only comes into play for a simple reason, each playstyle has a different amount of lines a player can take, meaning the amount of decisions to be made is lower for some playstyles.
Midrange requires the lowest amount of decisions, with some decks in this playstyle being absurdly low in regards to this (look at Spiteful Summoner decks, they practically fully abandon reactive tools and that removes the majority of the decisions to be made).
Aggro comes next, because you at least need to be able to maximise damage output with the few cards you draw. It is still not a great playstyle for decisions, because many times, you are hoping that your opponent is unlucky and doesn't happen to draw the answers they need in the few cards they draw from the deck, something they have no control over, the order they draw in.
Control enters here, with lots of playable lines, but rarely do they have a limited time window to finish their games and generally, as long as they survive the early game, they rule the late game with the value they have. There are lots of decisions to be made with Control because of all the tools they have, but it is still doesn't reach the level of Combo for a reason.
Lastly Combo, the playstyle that while having slightly less playable lines than Control, it is limited by a time window to use it's win condition. Combo decks are built with a finite amount of resources, resources that they need to carefully consider which can be used for survival, and which need to be saved for win condition. Control doesn't need to worry about this. Their win condition being value, they can afford to use tools as they like as long as they have enough to handle what the opponent is doing. Combo decks don't run the value that will end games for Control, they need to ration their tools to deal with the opponent but if they mess up, they lose the game because they can no longer end the game, they have no win condition. Being able to survive until you can Combo your opponent, being able to ration your tools, being able to identify your win condition window and not missing it, all of that needs to be done by the Combo player.
The reason it is harder for the Combo player, is they have very little room for error.
If you misuse your tools, you lose. If you don't use enough to survive, you lose. If you take too long, you get outvalued and lose. If you fuck up your combo while performing it, you lose. Lack of room for error, this is what makes Combo the hardest playstyle to play. The better you are playing Combo, the better you are at the game simply because you can perform better when you don't have room to make mistakes, meaning your technical play is better, you find the best line of play consistently.
Let's say that the game is only made up of three deck types for the sake argument. Combo, Control and Aggro. Aggro can beat Aggro, Control, and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as an aggro deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who enjoy playing aggro!
Now let's look at combo decks in the current meta. Combo decks can beat Aggro, Control and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as a combo deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who like playing combo!
Finally we have control decks. In the current meta, control decks can beat control decks and aggro. Wait a minute! What about combo decks? Well my friends, as the meta currently sits, Combo decks are extremely polarizing to control decks and thus playing as a control deck can lead to match ups where conceding immediately is the better play.
This all to say shut up op. Control is not harder to play than aggro or combo, but your whole rant about control decks being in a good spot and rock paper scissors is bullshit. Right now combo decks are rock and paper, with aggro being scissors. Control decks are mushrooms. Even in the case where the meta is rock paper scissors, that leads to extremely polarizing match ups and a miserable meta. Nothing about it is balanced.
Winning with either control or combo takes concentration, endurance and planning. Aggro's game plan is simply "Mulligan and hope for lucky top decks". I started as an aggro player, so I know what I'm talking about. Avoid common AOEs, build up your board and win the game. Not saying it's brain dead, but it certainly is an "easy mode" for hearthstone.
I definitely agree that Control players are not "superior". For me though, Control requires a much more interesting skill set that Aggro. It comes down to personal preference.
Aggro, as an archetype, tries to exploit the variance associated with draw RNG, by spamming minions and beating you down before you can draw your counters. For me, that feels a bit cheap. I played Heal Lock earlier this month, but didn't much enjoy it.
Control decks most of the time have a more interesting decision making aspect than aggro or mid-range. That's why many people want control decks to be viable - to make the game more fun and interesting. I like almost all playstyles but control is my favorite.
I also don't like the pure rock paper scissors. If it was truly rps then we wouldn't need to play anymore. Just queue up and concede or watch the other one concede.. I think we can agree that this would be dumb.
Also Jades are dumb. :P
The problem is that only some classes are intentionally being designed towards a control class. Sure it may seem like its great to have a control meta until you realize that the only classes that consistently get control cards that work together are warlock, priest, mage, and warrior. Meanwhile, hunters, pallies, & rogues are frequently NOT getting control themes so they are stuck with everything else.
So when you have classes that are getting tons of control cards vs classes that try to go control but don't have the solid consistency and synergy then it gets to a point where the much stronger control class isn't really having to make interesting choices during game play because they simply have way more answers, threats, and value overall.
Let's say that the game is only made up of three deck types for the sake argument. Combo, Control and Aggro. Aggro can beat Aggro, Control, and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as an aggro deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who enjoy playing aggro!
Now let's look at combo decks in the current meta. Combo decks can beat Aggro, Control and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as a combo deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who like playing combo!
Finally we have control decks. In the current meta, control decks can beat control decks and aggro. Wait a minute! What about combo decks? Well my friends, as the meta currently sits, Combo decks are extremely polarizing to control decks and thus playing as a control deck can lead to match ups where conceding immediately is the better play.
This all to say shut up op. Control is not harder to play than aggro or combo, but your whole rant about control decks being in a good spot and rock paper scissors is bullshit. Right now combo decks are rock and paper, with aggro being scissors. Control decks are mushrooms. Even in the case where the meta is rock paper scissors, that leads to extremely polarizing match ups and a miserable meta. Nothing about it is balanced.
This is not really correct. The most popular control deck right now is Odd Warrior and there are only two decks that give you a really hard time and you might wanna autoconcede. One is Toggwaggle Druid and the other is Quest Rogue. You can outarmor Maly Druid most of the time.
In wild, the situation is even better for control. I got legend in wild this season with my wild version of odd warrior, without a win-condition other than not to lose. The most popular combo deck there is Star Aligner Druid, which can burst you for as much as 56-60 damage, sometimes earlier than turn 10. I haven't lost a single game to it, even outlasted one 56 dmg burst.
So I would say, it is just the cheesy fatigue decks like toggwaggle that really destroy you and those shouldn't be in the game anyway in my opinion. They are just destructive in an unfun way, because they ignore the deck building strategy of the opponent.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about my personal experience when I write this.
I personally don't think people who prefer Control (including me) to other archetypes think they're superior, they just think that Aggro doesn't require much skill. I like all archetypes, but I don't like Aggro because of a few reasons, first being that half of the time games come down to who has the better opening hand. The second reason is, when I started playing Reno Warlock (about a month ago) my winrate was around 50% even at lower Ranks, now it's about 70% at Rank 5-1, same with Combo Priest and same with Miracle Rogue which I made a week ago, had a winrate barely 25%, now it's 60%, but it wasn't like that when I played Even Shaman or "Tempo" Mage. Those two decks got me to Rank 2 from Rank 5 in a day without much difficulty and I don't really play Ranked a lot. Most of the time I found myself doing something else, paying little attention to the game and still winning. These decks are just too boring for me and I don't feel like my decisions make much of an impact unless I'm playing against other Aggro decks.
Im really surprised how my thread just fall into some pit of "aggro is nobrain". I wasnt even touching aggro, but well, i'll rephrase it. Do you remember when Reno Jackson was introduced? Back in the days face hunter was really strong and this card could just obliterate this deck. And people who likes aggro was actually hating this card, but at least here they was laughed. Quest Rogue on the other hand is not a single card, its a deck that loses hard to aggro and exist for the sake if destroying control decks (and if you wanna argue that the deck needs to be builded around reno, there is gnomferatu of Dirty Rat against combo decks, you get the point). And control players feel comfortable to runt about it while reasoning their point as "ITS DESTROYING CONTROL DECKS". I have never seen a threat called "&cardname& must be nerfed, %aggro/midrange/combo-deckname% is unplayable while it exists".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The fact that aggro players care so much about the opinions of rest of us, shows that they try more to convice themselves than to convice others . Just count the"aGgro TukS SkUlL" threads and the "AgGrO iS BrUdED" threads. The former will outnumber easily 3 to 1 the latter, if not more. Just play what you want and do not give a damm about what other say.
Anyway aggro as an archetype is the easiest archetype after midrange. Of course there are decks that are more skill intensive than others regardless of the archetype. Aggro is very easy and is most of the times cheap. Both are good things. The game is a casual game and if the plebs can not win unless they become good, this game's population will dwindle as high skill was never its appeal. Moreover aggro forces non aggro players to create efficient decks and punishes combo and greedy decks.
Anyway, i have no hate of smorc decks, on the contrary, they are my 3rd favourite archetype after controllock and miracle decks. But i do loathe aggro players for polluting the casual mode and doing everything in their power to make that mode toxic. I play the game since vanilla and the worst of the worst i have faced in the game all came from smorc douches in casual.
It's the principle of the special snowflakes.
And because of that, no reasoning is possible: they'll stay in their belief.
Annoying thing is that the feeling of superiority often translates in a demand of privileges, since their superiority is not just about brains, but often moral: their playstyle is how the whole game should be and anything else is a toxic deviation...
PS: ofc i am referring only to the portion of players that believes in their snowflake superiority solely based on the decks they play.
Wtf are you talking about dude this is a aggro meta go face because we dont wanna think decks
Not every aggro deck is face hunter and not every matchup is Aggro vs Control.
Are you writing from 2015? There are ZERO pure face decks in this meta. Every aggro deck is kinda zooish and fights for the board control. If you don't make any trades with modern aggro decks you just don't understand how these decks function. Or, what is probably the case, you just play extremely greedy lists and no one trades with you because of that.
Oh, never mind, just checked your decks. "Face Hunter" with Deathstalker Rexxar and Savannah Highmane... Now I think you're trolling.
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
I play Hunter in Wild, all the way to Reno. I'm gonna be a star.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Yes we are
Control decks are inherently more frustrating to play because of draw RNG and stupid polarized matchups where you queue into an unbeatable OTK deck that you can do nothing against because dirty rat isn't in standard so you just have to concede instead of wasting your time.
Aggro has slowed down a lot these days and have gotten little support in comparison to control tools. Nothing new and nerfs. Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue? They're so slow any aggro deck from the past would've eaten them alive. Compare the Turn 1-2-3 plays now of the "aggro" decks now with ones from the past. The upgraded hero powers are a lot weaker in comparison but you get consistency instead. Just look at Murloc Pally compared to Odd Pally. Murloc Tidecaller into Rockpool Hunter gives 5/6 worth of stats on Turn 2. 2 1/1 dudes can't compare. 2/2 weapon for 2 mana? Fiery Win Axe gave 3/2 for 2 mana. AND it has synergy with the rest of the deck. Aggro decks these days don't take off until Turn 3-4.
The problem is that they lump the majority of decks into the aggro category. Face, Zoo, Tempo, Token, Burn, etc. are all different in their own way, with different strengths and weaknesses, but they consider any deck that is faster than theirs aggro.
Data has been collected on this topic, and the skill ceiling on decks can be very high for decks of all types. Some aggro is brainless, some aggro is as complex as any deck.
Are you paid for this kind of comment ?
Combo players on the other hand... :D
Nah, jk every archtype that isn't curve-midrange takes some amount of skill to play.
Let's say that the game is only made up of three deck types for the sake argument. Combo, Control and Aggro. Aggro can beat Aggro, Control, and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as an aggro deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who enjoy playing aggro!
Now let's look at combo decks in the current meta. Combo decks can beat Aggro, Control and Combo decks. They may not be favored against all three archetypes but there are no match ups that you would play as a combo deck and consider conceding immediately. That is good for people who like playing combo!
Finally we have control decks. In the current meta, control decks can beat control decks and aggro. Wait a minute! What about combo decks? Well my friends, as the meta currently sits, Combo decks are extremely polarizing to control decks and thus playing as a control deck can lead to match ups where conceding immediately is the better play.
This all to say shut up op. Control is not harder to play than aggro or combo, but your whole rant about control decks being in a good spot and rock paper scissors is bullshit. Right now combo decks are rock and paper, with aggro being scissors. Control decks are mushrooms. Even in the case where the meta is rock paper scissors, that leads to extremely polarizing match ups and a miserable meta. Nothing about it is balanced.
So many butthurt kids saying aggro doesnt need brain and only goes face..
Shows how much you know about Hearthstone in general.
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
Everything is superior to aggro.
True story.
Winning with either control or combo takes concentration, endurance and planning. Aggro's game plan is simply "Mulligan and hope for lucky top decks". I started as an aggro player, so I know what I'm talking about. Avoid common AOEs, build up your board and win the game. Not saying it's brain dead, but it certainly is an "easy mode" for hearthstone.
I definitely agree that Control players are not "superior". For me though, Control requires a much more interesting skill set that Aggro. It comes down to personal preference.
Aggro, as an archetype, tries to exploit the variance associated with draw RNG, by spamming minions and beating you down before you can draw your counters. For me, that feels a bit cheap. I played Heal Lock earlier this month, but didn't much enjoy it.
The problem is that only some classes are intentionally being designed towards a control class. Sure it may seem like its great to have a control meta until you realize that the only classes that consistently get control cards that work together are warlock, priest, mage, and warrior. Meanwhile, hunters, pallies, & rogues are frequently NOT getting control themes so they are stuck with everything else.
So when you have classes that are getting tons of control cards vs classes that try to go control but don't have the solid consistency and synergy then it gets to a point where the much stronger control class isn't really having to make interesting choices during game play because they simply have way more answers, threats, and value overall.
This is not really correct. The most popular control deck right now is Odd Warrior and there are only two decks that give you a really hard time and you might wanna autoconcede. One is Toggwaggle Druid and the other is Quest Rogue. You can outarmor Maly Druid most of the time.
In wild, the situation is even better for control. I got legend in wild this season with my wild version of odd warrior, without a win-condition other than not to lose. The most popular combo deck there is Star Aligner Druid, which can burst you for as much as 56-60 damage, sometimes earlier than turn 10. I haven't lost a single game to it, even outlasted one 56 dmg burst.
So I would say, it is just the cheesy fatigue decks like toggwaggle that really destroy you and those shouldn't be in the game anyway in my opinion. They are just destructive in an unfun way, because they ignore the deck building strategy of the opponent.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about my personal experience when I write this.
I personally don't think people who prefer Control (including me) to other archetypes think they're superior, they just think that Aggro doesn't require much skill. I like all archetypes, but I don't like Aggro because of a few reasons, first being that half of the time games come down to who has the better opening hand. The second reason is, when I started playing Reno Warlock (about a month ago) my winrate was around 50% even at lower Ranks, now it's about 70% at Rank 5-1, same with Combo Priest and same with Miracle Rogue which I made a week ago, had a winrate barely 25%, now it's 60%, but it wasn't like that when I played Even Shaman or "Tempo" Mage. Those two decks got me to Rank 2 from Rank 5 in a day without much difficulty and I don't really play Ranked a lot. Most of the time I found myself doing something else, paying little attention to the game and still winning. These decks are just too boring for me and I don't feel like my decisions make much of an impact unless I'm playing against other Aggro decks.
Im really surprised how my thread just fall into some pit of "aggro is nobrain". I wasnt even touching aggro, but well, i'll rephrase it. Do you remember when Reno Jackson was introduced? Back in the days face hunter was really strong and this card could just obliterate this deck. And people who likes aggro was actually hating this card, but at least here they was laughed. Quest Rogue on the other hand is not a single card, its a deck that loses hard to aggro and exist for the sake if destroying control decks (and if you wanna argue that the deck needs to be builded around reno, there is gnomferatu of Dirty Rat against combo decks, you get the point). And control players feel comfortable to runt about it while reasoning their point as "ITS DESTROYING CONTROL DECKS". I have never seen a threat called "&cardname& must be nerfed, %aggro/midrange/combo-deckname% is unplayable while it exists".