I think we need a buff... to the spelling and grammar of those in this discussion.
But on topic now...
The 1 mana hero power was clearly a design choice. Someone already linked a video detailing Blizzard's choices and thoughts around this topic. So, it isn't going anywhere any time soon, and will probably never change. You can disagree with it and post on forums all you want, but like many other things in life you might not like, it isn't going away, and you'll just have to deal with it.
Same goes for the power level of Demon Hunter in general for now. Is it over-tuned still after two rounds of nerfs? I would say yes, but not massively so, and I'm guessing that it is currently pretty close to where Blizzard wants it. After all, it makes no sense to introduce a new class only to have it immediately or quickly become irrelevant in the meta. That's just a terrible business decision; Blizzard would much rather it be slightly overplayed / overpowered than slightly underplayed / underpowered, because that's the reasonable business choice here. So, they won't be "nerfing it into the ground" any time soon either. Will they eventually nerf DH in the future? Of course; name me a class that hasn't ever had a nerf to one of their class cards (I'll save you the time; they've all been nerfed at some point).
Also, if your logic on the DH hero power is that it is too much damage output (at least to the HP of their opponent), then you should have just as much of a problem with Hunter's hero power, as it is as mana efficient, and completely ignores both taunts and targetability.
Far too sensible, no point really bothering to he honest. You're dealing with immature, irrational people and there will be no sensible debate. The one thing I genuinely dislike about the internet is that it forces me into coming across absolute idiots, despite the site (like this) being a valuable source of information.
They can't win in this situation and it's a shame because when you watch the linked video, you can see they have really tried and genuinely care about the work they're doing on this game. If they released it and it was Tier 3, people would be up in arms, calling them useless and accusing them of rushing a bad class just for a cash grab. If it's marginally at the top, as it is now, you get what we currently have and people look down on it being used.
Which is mental, I've seen post after post after post requesting another class etc, they release one and you have a decent section of the players immediately judging anyone who dare use it. I've seen streamers actively brag about having few or no wins with the class, like it's some sort of medal.
Don't ask for new things and then label anyone who dares okay around with it as a 'fan boy' which is such a cringe expression in itself, my 11 year old has matured past using it.
Is the class strong? Yes. I genuinely don't feel it's oppressive though, I much prefer seeing a Demon Hunter over a Face Hunter, for example. It's got a cool flavour and different mechanics and I'd hope they view it as a success so that other classes might be released in the future. If they draw the nuts you're probably going to lose, unless you do as well but that's the case with a lot of classes. As it is, I wouldn't bother if it was me on the Dev team and I'd stick to more vanilla, bland releases just to be safe.
Don't think I've seen anything released without people kicking off in this game. Comfortably the worst community I've seen in a game. Incredibly childish and ignorant.
But that's really not the hero power doing that damage, is it? The bulk of that damage is from cards that have nothing to do with the hero power and could be done regardless of if you press the button. It's just total damage from a bunch of attack boosters. Taking what they were saying before about Mage, it's like saying Mage can do 13 damage with their Hero Power by using 2x Fireball. Or it's like saying Druid can do 9 damage from their hero power by using 2x Bite.
Basically what I'm saying is, it's nonsense to say that the hero power is doing 17 damage here. It's totally fair to say that DH has too many class cards that allow it to burst for 17 damage, but not that the blame is on the hero power specifically.
The problem is that DH's hero power is really easy to combo for massive damage, which also happens to be one of the main selling points of the class. Mage on the other hand gets very little value out of its her power in comparison. DH's 1-cost HP is unjustified.
But that's really not the hero power doing that damage, is it? The bulk of that damage is from cards that have nothing to do with the hero power and could be done regardless of if you press the button. It's just total damage from a bunch of attack boosters. Taking what they were saying before about Mage, it's like saying Mage can do 13 damage with their Hero Power by using 2x Fireball. Or it's like saying Druid can do 9 damage from their hero power by using 2x Bite.
Basically what I'm saying is, it's nonsense to say that the hero power is doing 17 damage here. It's totally fair to say that DH has too many class cards that allow it to burst for 17 damage, but not that the blame is on the hero power specifically.
The problem is that DH's hero power is really easy to combo for massive damage, which also happens to be one of the main selling points of the class. Mage on the other hand gets very little value out of its her power in comparison. DH's 1-cost HP is unjustified.
What massive damage combo explicitly requires the DH hero power? Let's say you used Kael'thas Sunstrider w/ 2x Twin Slice and 2x Inner Demon for 20 damage AND THEN hero power to bring it to 21. Was the 1 mana +1 damage really the problem here?
I could buy an argument that the hero power ADDS UP to a lot of damage over the course of the game because 1 mana is easy to weave into a turn, but that's not what you're saying. And if you are, then both Rogue and Hunter should be problems as well because their hero powers also average 2 damage for 2 mana.
There is one case where the hero power adds massive value for 1 mana: Warglaives of Azzinoth. 1 mana = +4 total damage on your board clearing
Oh for sure, that's a very powerful combo. But there are other powerful combos with hero powers too, such as Hunter with Phase Stalker, Dragonbane, or Toxic Reinforcements, and idk I don't think the combo with Warglaives of Azzinoth is that out of line comparatively.
I actually like the 1 mana cost hero power, mainly because it sets a precedent for non-2 cost hero powers haha. We might see a fun death knight or monk hero in the future now, or even hero cards with 3 mana cost. It's a pretty exciting time!
Unfortunately the world is obsessed with finding things wrong in everything they enjoy, so I guess it's not as exciting for others.
Well, there already are at least 2 hero powers to use in-game (not including Genn or Raza) that don't cost 2: Hagatha the Witch and The Amazing Reno both have passives
There is one case where the hero power adds massive value for 1 mana: Warglaives of Azzinoth. 1 mana = +4 total damage on your board clearing
Oh for sure, that's a very powerful combo. But there are other powerful combos with hero powers too, such as Hunter with Phase Stalker, Dragonbane, or Toxic Reinforcements, and idk I don't think the combo with Warglaives of Azzinoth is that out of line comparatively.
Hunter's hero power is 2 mana though, so whether or not to use that hero power over a card in your hand is going to be a dilemma so much more often.
There is one case where the hero power adds massive value for 1 mana: Warglaives of Azzinoth. 1 mana = +4 total damage on your board clearing
Oh for sure, that's a very powerful combo. But there are other powerful combos with hero powers too, such as Hunter with Phase Stalker, Dragonbane, or Toxic Reinforcements, and idk I don't think the combo with Warglaives of Azzinoth is that out of line comparatively.
Hunter's hero power is 2 mana though, so whether or not to use that hero power over a card in your hand is going to be a dilemma so much more often.
That's definitely a fair point, 1 mana is a lot easier to weave into a turn so there's less of an opportunity cost to using it. But I'd argue the payoff is a lot less as a result. Using it with Warglaives of Azzinoth makes it like "1 mana: Deal 1 damage to 3 enemy minions and 1 damage to an enemy character". That's certainly strong. But taking Phase Stalker as another example, it makes the Hunter's hero power like "2 mana: Deal 2 damage to the enemy hero, draw a secret and reduce it's cost by (2)." That's obviously a lot stronger synergy, so it makes sense it costs more.
But that's really not the hero power doing that damage, is it? The bulk of that damage is from cards that have nothing to do with the hero power and could be done regardless of if you press the button. It's just total damage from a bunch of attack boosters. Taking what they were saying before about Mage, it's like saying Mage can do 13 damage with their Hero Power by using 2x Fireball. Or it's like saying Druid can do 9 damage from their hero power by using 2x Bite.
Basically what I'm saying is, it's nonsense to say that the hero power is doing 17 damage here. It's totally fair to say that DH has too many class cards that allow it to burst for 17 damage, but not that the blame is on the hero power specifically.
The problem is that DH's hero power is really easy to combo for massive damage, which also happens to be one of the main selling points of the class. Mage on the other hand gets very little value out of its her power in comparison. DH's 1-cost HP is unjustified.
What massive damage combo explicitly requires the DH hero power? Let's say you used Kael'thas Sunstrider w/ 2x Twin Slice and 2x Inner Demon for 20 damage AND THEN hero power to bring it to 21. Was the 1 mana +1 damage really the problem here?
I could buy an argument that the hero power ADDS UP to a lot of damage over the course of the game because 1 mana is easy to weave into a turn, but that's not what you're saying. And if you are, then both Rogue and Hunter should be problems as well because their hero powers also average 2 damage for 2 mana.
You're just cherry-picking at this point. Every turn, DH has the potential to do at least 5 damage using the hero power. When the class is so reliant on cards that buff its hero power (obviously the focus that Blizzard wanted for DH), then what is the real problem? 5 or 6 cards that buff the hero power (mind you, these types of cards are what Blizzard is trying to use to make DH unique) or the hero power? All of a sudden, if the hero power gets nerfed to 2 mana, the wild combos coming from those cards are less of an issue. Still a threat but less of an issue. Why nerf 5-6 cards when you can just nerf the one mechanic?
But that's really not the hero power doing that damage, is it? The bulk of that damage is from cards that have nothing to do with the hero power and could be done regardless of if you press the button. It's just total damage from a bunch of attack boosters. Taking what they were saying before about Mage, it's like saying Mage can do 13 damage with their Hero Power by using 2x Fireball. Or it's like saying Druid can do 9 damage from their hero power by using 2x Bite.
Basically what I'm saying is, it's nonsense to say that the hero power is doing 17 damage here. It's totally fair to say that DH has too many class cards that allow it to burst for 17 damage, but not that the blame is on the hero power specifically.
The problem is that DH's hero power is really easy to combo for massive damage, which also happens to be one of the main selling points of the class. Mage on the other hand gets very little value out of its her power in comparison. DH's 1-cost HP is unjustified.
What massive damage combo explicitly requires the DH hero power? Let's say you used Kael'thas Sunstrider w/ 2x Twin Slice and 2x Inner Demon for 20 damage AND THEN hero power to bring it to 21. Was the 1 mana +1 damage really the problem here?
I could buy an argument that the hero power ADDS UP to a lot of damage over the course of the game because 1 mana is easy to weave into a turn, but that's not what you're saying. And if you are, then both Rogue and Hunter should be problems as well because their hero powers also average 2 damage for 2 mana.
You're just cherry-picking at this point. Every turn, DH has the potential to do at least 5 damage using the hero power. When the class is so reliant on cards that buff its hero power (obviously the focus that Blizzard wanted for DH), then what is the real problem? 5 or 6 cards that buff the hero power (mind you, these types of cards are what Blizzard is trying to use to make DH unique) or the hero power? All of a sudden, if the hero power gets nerfed to 2 mana, the wild combos coming from those cards are less of an issue. Still a threat but less of an issue. Why nerf 5-6 cards when you can just nerf the one mechanic?
Every turn DH can do at least 5 damage with their hero power??? How? Like, explicitly, what combination of cards are you referring to here?
I get that Demon Hunter has a lot of cards that can increase its attack (e.g. Twin Slice, Inner Demon, Chaos Strike, etc.), but those aren't increasing it's "hero power". The hero's attack and the hero power are not the same thing...
Every other classes hero power costs 2. Wouldn't it have made sense to make it cost 2. Their hero power is one of the most problematic things about the class having so much damage output at their disposal.
Just stop whining... DH is not so problematic anymore. If you losing to it and it makes you mad its your fault.
Do you play Wild? Odd DH is all kinds of problematic there. Also, why do you consider people expressing their opinions – that you seem to not share, as is your right – as whining? Can't someone have an opinion (that in this case is negative) and express it without being accused of whining?
Makes Blowtorch Saboteur extra effective against DH. Increases the HP by 2 mana instead of 1, and they don't get it back to 1 mana until they spend 3 mana for it, making for an awkward turn. Take THAT DH!
Every other classes hero power costs 2. Wouldn't it have made sense to make it cost 2. Their hero power is one of the most problematic things about the class having so much damage output at their disposal.
Just stop whining... DH is not so problematic anymore. If you losing to it and it makes you mad its your fault.
Do you play Wild? Odd DH is all kinds of problematic there. Also, why do you consider people expressing their opinions – that you seem to not share, as is your right – as whining? Can't someone have an opinion (that in this case is negative) and express it without being accused of whining?
Well... I call it whining cuz... hmmm... maybe... just maybe... ITS WHINING?
I think they should just up and delete this class, then everybody would be happy, right? Going back to business with Hunter destroying the meta, or Priest or Warlock, but people are really bothered with a class that has a slight advantage given the disadvantage it's facing, that would be the low number of cards. Now its hero power, after it will be the outcast mechanic, then it will be the weapons. Nothing except destroying this class would make people happy. If you get obliterated by Hunter why is it different than getting hammered by DH? It's not!
I like the class because it's fresh, has it broken the meta? at the start yes. Was it expected? Probably. Why? it's a new class people will be playing it. If they nerf it in the ground will people be happy? At the start yes, two days later no!
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why are you talking to your alt account?
The problem is that DH's hero power is really easy to combo for massive damage, which also happens to be one of the main selling points of the class. Mage on the other hand gets very little value out of its her power in comparison. DH's 1-cost HP is unjustified.
What massive damage combo explicitly requires the DH hero power? Let's say you used Kael'thas Sunstrider w/ 2x Twin Slice and 2x Inner Demon for 20 damage AND THEN hero power to bring it to 21. Was the 1 mana +1 damage really the problem here?
I could buy an argument that the hero power ADDS UP to a lot of damage over the course of the game because 1 mana is easy to weave into a turn, but that's not what you're saying. And if you are, then both Rogue and Hunter should be problems as well because their hero powers also average 2 damage for 2 mana.
There is one case where the hero power adds massive value for 1 mana: Warglaives of Azzinoth. 1 mana = +4 total damage on your board clearing
Oh for sure, that's a very powerful combo. But there are other powerful combos with hero powers too, such as Hunter with Phase Stalker, Dragonbane, or Toxic Reinforcements, and idk I don't think the combo with Warglaives of Azzinoth is that out of line comparatively.
screw it why not reduce all hero powers to 1 mana.
Well, there already are at least 2 hero powers to use in-game (not including Genn or Raza) that don't cost 2: Hagatha the Witch and The Amazing Reno both have passives
Hunter's hero power is 2 mana though, so whether or not to use that hero power over a card in your hand is going to be a dilemma so much more often.
That's definitely a fair point, 1 mana is a lot easier to weave into a turn so there's less of an opportunity cost to using it. But I'd argue the payoff is a lot less as a result. Using it with Warglaives of Azzinoth makes it like "1 mana: Deal 1 damage to 3 enemy minions and 1 damage to an enemy character". That's certainly strong. But taking Phase Stalker as another example, it makes the Hunter's hero power like "2 mana: Deal 2 damage to the enemy hero, draw a secret and reduce it's cost by (2)." That's obviously a lot stronger synergy, so it makes sense it costs more.
When they introduce Death Knights, I want their hero power to be 3 mana.
I honestly think that could be pretty cool. I wonder what a balanced 3 mana hero power looks like?
Me too, maybe summon 1/1 with reborn or deathrattle summon another 1/1
More like a 2/2 leaving a 1/1 behind
Always expect the unexpectable!
You're just cherry-picking at this point. Every turn, DH has the potential to do at least 5 damage using the hero power. When the class is so reliant on cards that buff its hero power (obviously the focus that Blizzard wanted for DH), then what is the real problem? 5 or 6 cards that buff the hero power (mind you, these types of cards are what Blizzard is trying to use to make DH unique) or the hero power? All of a sudden, if the hero power gets nerfed to 2 mana, the wild combos coming from those cards are less of an issue. Still a threat but less of an issue. Why nerf 5-6 cards when you can just nerf the one mechanic?
Every turn DH can do at least 5 damage with their hero power??? How? Like, explicitly, what combination of cards are you referring to here?
I get that Demon Hunter has a lot of cards that can increase its attack (e.g. Twin Slice, Inner Demon, Chaos Strike, etc.), but those aren't increasing it's "hero power". The hero's attack and the hero power are not the same thing...
The hero power on its own is fair. When combined with Baku the Mooneater in wild it becomes a big problem.
Tickatus isn't fun or interactive
Do you play Wild? Odd DH is all kinds of problematic there. Also, why do you consider people expressing their opinions – that you seem to not share, as is your right – as whining? Can't someone have an opinion (that in this case is negative) and express it without being accused of whining?
Makes Blowtorch Saboteur extra effective against DH. Increases the HP by 2 mana instead of 1, and they don't get it back to 1 mana until they spend 3 mana for it, making for an awkward turn. Take THAT DH!
Twitch: Pacific_Onion
Well... I call it whining cuz... hmmm... maybe... just maybe... ITS WHINING?
I think they should just up and delete this class, then everybody would be happy, right? Going back to business with Hunter destroying the meta, or Priest or Warlock, but people are really bothered with a class that has a slight advantage given the disadvantage it's facing, that would be the low number of cards. Now its hero power, after it will be the outcast mechanic, then it will be the weapons. Nothing except destroying this class would make people happy. If you get obliterated by Hunter why is it different than getting hammered by DH? It's not!
I like the class because it's fresh, has it broken the meta? at the start yes. Was it expected? Probably. Why? it's a new class people will be playing it.
If they nerf it in the ground will people be happy? At the start yes, two days later no!