Hearthpwn

Anub'Rekhan

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these, dude. I don't think inevitability in HS is a problem (Ignite, The Demon Seed) within a reasonable time frame (if the warlock quest needs fixing, which it might, I would prefer they just make it harder to complete, and thus slower). And fatigue isn't especially relevant outside control v control, which is a real rarity these days.

Quote from I_Feel_Ur_Pain >>

2. Make ignite cost 3 mana, and start with 1 damage.  The card is already an infinite damage engine, it shouldn't start as a baseline ok card If u make ignite 3 mana un Nerf encanter flow. 

Just say you want the card deleted, man. 3 mana start at 1 dmg means you need to play, draw and replay it six(!) times to get a... slightly better Fireball.

1) No one lied to me, the proposed card text in your original post would literally make it random targets after the first kill - no recast card in the game lets you select the target beyond the first casting. To target each reiteration of the spell you would have to make it an Echo-spell, putting a 0-mana copy back in your hand after you kill a target. I suppose that would make it a (potentially) better Perpetual Flame, and it could be interesting effect wise. I still don't think there's anything wrong with the current version, though.

2) Ice Block has had more than its share of haters over the year, especially every time a new Freeze Mage variant rears it head. Block can be countered by a variant of tech cards, and it's mostly used to squeeze in that extra turn before you can either secure the win or throw down Reno. Your suggested variation can't be countered, and doesn't allow the mage to set up a winning play (other than cases where he's grievously misplayed his cards or misread his opponent's). How is that more interactive?

3) In no way does this give the warlock a better matchup against aggro - in my opinion, it makes every aggro deck an autoloss for questlock. Finishing the quest on a higher health total than an aggro opponent as quest warlock is a pipe dream - it's not just that it's hard, it's that it doesn't happen. You're doing six (lifesteal) damage through your quest completions, and that's mostly it. And how is it more interactive for your opponent? If they're aggressive, they still need to attack and kill you. Your change just makes that easier. And any Hearthstone deck that loses to aggro 100 % of the time is unplayable IMO.

Bonus) How many games do you play that are decided by Archivist? I haven't seen that card in ages. I haven't been seeing Benedictus, either. But the only reason you would play a 7 mana 4/6 is to gain some actual advantage. Your proposed Benedictus is a huge tempo loss that basically gives you nothing at all back for it. There are way better way to kill Reno effects.

Quote from Sevasmios >>

Quote from proptionstrade >>

 

 What I think yourself and many others that craft questlock might be failing to take into account is that D6 (which is the iteration that many GMs played and that many people have crafted) is a high skill cap decklist that can be incredibly strong in the hands of a top tier pro but not necessarily so much when piloted by the average player or even most people in legend. That deck actually does have a relatively low wr at every rank where it is played including legend, and the reason why is that it is difficult to play optimally. So I think context is important to take into account here.

 And no, the reason it does poorly on ladder it’s because people are playing aggro af!! And teching decks with shit cards but that are good against those “solitaire” uninteractive trash decks. That’s why it does poorly and not even because it still even beats decks that are counter because of how broken it is. In tournaments you can ban in ladder you cannot. Can’t compare. 

This depends on where on ladder you're referring to. According to HSreplay, the top 3 decks in legend by play rate are D6, slightly modifed D6, and miracle druid, none of which are aggro. And no one is teching in terrible cards that are good against lock, lol. Like by all means, name one card that a popular decklist has teched in explicitly to counter questlock that is otherwise terrible. 

I also think the reason you're seeing a lot of aggro with decent to good winrate across the ladder is, outside the fact that aggro is always good in Hearthstone (tempo good), is the collection of good combo decks pushing midrange and especially control completely out of the meta. So if you're queuing up with an aggro deck, even if it's not that good in isolation, you're guaranteed very few bad matchups.

I like this idea as a thought experiment, but I agree with the earlier poster that said your suggestions seem somewhat disingenuous. These changes would all make the card completely unplayable IMO, except the Benedictus one, and that one would just make the card... even more pointless than it already is?

The proposed change to Ignite would make it nothing like Defile. First off, Defile is an AoE (making it easier to chain), and more importantly there is no randomness to the with that card. This basically needs you to have and hit (in order) a 1 health, 2 health etc. minion on your opponent side to catch momentum. This would be more akin to Perpetual Flame with a much bigger failure rate.

The change you suggested for Open the Waygate sounds just as toxic as the current one. It just prolongs the game unnecessarily most games, and has to be the worst card in the game to lose against if your opponent actually turns the game around after using it? After he's already "won"? Also, why build your entire deck around something that isn't in any perceivable way an actual wincon? It's just a not-lose-on-the-spot card.

The Demon Seed would be wholly unplayable against aggro with your change, most midrange probably have a favorable matchup against it unless they can drop early giants, and the slowest matchups are probably still a win. It just makes the quest way, way worse. I don't get how that makes the card more interesting.

Quote from RepoMan0077 >>

Quote from Wiggy_HS >>

You already have to draw and play a 7+ mana card to activate the corrupt effect. There are few enough of those that you can get away with playing in standard, and outside of Y'shaarj I can't really see realistic options at 9+ mana. So you just want the card removed from the game? OK, say that then. Upping the requirement to 9+ mana is less about "deckbuilding and normal constraints", and more about making the card actually unplayable. Pretending you want to "balance" the card when you just want it nerfed into unplayability is just disingenuous.

 That’s not true at all. Tickatus is usually discounted to 4 mana, thus providing easy fulfillment of conditions.

Casually claiming that you "usually" get to play both Demonic Studies and then drop Tickatus with no demons in between, all the while surviving the tempo you're inevitably giving up... smh. The decent Tickatus decks don't even run that card as far as I know. If you want to dream up ideal scenarios for a card, then you can make the argument for nerfing a whole bunch of them. Luckily we live in the real world, where the numbers show he's not a balance problem at all. He feels bad to lose against, yes, and that's true for most late-game, set-up power cards - I personally felt a lot worse when jade and Hadranox druid would start running away with games. 

You already have to draw and play a 7+ mana card to activate the corrupt effect. There are few enough of those that you can get away with playing in standard, and outside of Y'shaarj I can't really see realistic options at 9+ mana. So you just want the card removed from the game? OK, say that then. Upping the requirement to 9+ mana is less about "deckbuilding and normal constraints", and more about making the card actually unplayable. Pretending you want to "balance" the card when you just want it nerfed into unplayability is just disingenuous.

Quote from HoraceWalpol >>

Quote from suchti352 >>

That is one of those achivements that you are not supposed to chase, it's more have an "Get rewarded for a memorable moment" Achivement.

This. The only way to "chase" this achievement is just to play to copies of Oh My Yogg in a standard Pure Paladin or any other Paladin deck you like, and hope that some lucky day, the impossible will happen. This achievement is similar to the Rogue one where you have to summon a 10-cost minion with Shadow Clone. You can do your best to set it up, but ultimately, you will have to get lucky.

Actually, the Shadow Clone was rather simple. Prep and Vanish, into Arcane Giant + Silas Darkmoon + Shadowstep. But the Oh My Yogg! one seems absolutely impossible to do on purpose.

Y'Shaarj requires you to both corrupt and play the cards, in order to get them back for 0 mana. Which, in the case of most all Corrupt cards outside Strongman, can be both difficult and extremely time consuming. In my experience, he only comes down in the late game or right before fatigue hits for Druid/Warlock, when playing against other very greedy decks.

Basically, he's a non-factor or a really bad draw against decks that plan to win before the decks empty out. So I think he's fine.

Not sure what happened there, guy, but you know most people play more than one class, right?

And if it hurts when the Priest player beats you with your own cards once in a blue moon, find solace in the fact that Priest is the second worst class in HS right now. That's in large part because it gets run over by DH and Hunter in the first four turns, while it can pretty much only watch the opponent build a killer board.

Quote from TheArcanist236 >>

Breath of the Infinite

Holy Nova

Wild Pyromancer + Apotheosis

Soul Mirror

Plague of Death

So, Breath plus: 4-mana deal two, 5-mana deal one and to 7+ mana cards. I'm not saying its barren, but it's underwhelming compared to priests of the past. I agree with OP that the class could use a reasonable board clear that doesn't require you to wait until two turns after DH kills you.

Quote from lackyonef >>

I don't get this, Priest has so many answers, especially if you are a wild player like me. Priest can just murder cards after cards I lay down while playing almost nothing and then stomping you late game.

You're not getting it because you're ignoring his point. Priest has several great board clears in wild. In standard, it has very litte outside of Breath of the Infinite.

I believe the justification is mainly that higher rarity = more build-around. IE. epics are usually more specific in what kind of deck it needs to go into to work, or might even require you to build the deck around it, while commons and to an extent rares are more broadly effective (if not powerful). Legendaries come with their own direct restriction (1 off in each deck), as you mention.

Are you sure Skull and soul fragments interact that way? I thought the discount was not applied to the next card, if you drew a soul fragment.