So for the past few months there’s been a lot of complaining about Jade Golem (shocking, I know). So I wanted to take a moment and see if I can break down why they are a problem. Now this is gonna be a long post, so brace yourself. If you only want to see the proposed changes, skip to the end.
Jade Golem as a mechanic is fairly straightforward. The first time you summon one, it is a 1/1, but every time afterwards it increases by +1/+1. So if you summoned 5 of them, you’d get a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5. If you’ve played Hearthstone at any point since MSG this should be obvious. So this lead me to ask the question: What is the value of a Jade Golem?
Well, a fairly basic formula for how much a pile of stats is worth is Mana = (Attack+Health-1)/2.* So to take an example, Chillwind Yeti is a 4/5 minion. Using the formula, Mana = (4+5-1)/2 = 4. And what do you know? It costs 4 mana in game! So if we apply this formula to Jade Golem:
1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6,…x/x
= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5,…x - 0.5
So, pretty straightforward right? So over the course of a game, how many Jade Golem can you reasonably assume to summon? Well, most Jade Decks (except Rogue) have access to 10 Jade Golem per game assuming they play every card that summons a Jade Golem and do not do any additional synergy (i.e. Jade Spiritx2 + Aya Blackpaw for everyone (which is 4), Jade Claws/Jade Lightning/Jade Chieftainx2 for Shaman (which is 6), Jade Blossom/Jade Behemoth/Jade Idolx2 for Druid (which is 6), Jade Shuriken/Jade Swarmerx4 for Rogue (which is 4)). Though it is certainly possible to summon more than that, and there are many games were you don’t get that high, I think as an estimate for value that feels reasonable. So using the formula again:
1/1 + 2/2 + 3/3…+ 10/10
= 0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5…+ 9.5
= 50
Seeing that this is split over 10 minions, that means the average value of a Jade Golem is 5 mana each. NOW DON’T GET UP IN ARMS YET, I REALIZE THAT NUMBER IS WAYYY TOO HIGH! But just keep this number in mind as we look at how much they are actually valued at in-game.
In game, there are 10 cards that can summon a Jade Golem. Every one of those cards (sorta) has additional effects so that we can roughly find the value of those cards IF THEY DID NOT SUMMON A Jade Golem. Then, by taking the difference, we can see how much a Jade Golem is currently worth:
Jade Spirit: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 2/3. Using the formula that is worth about 2 mana. Given that the card is worth 4 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Aya Blackpaw: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/3. Using the formula that is worth about 3.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, and that it summons 2 Jade Golem, each Jade Golem is worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Behemoth: Without the Jade Golem, this card is a 3/6 Taunt. Using the formula, that is worth 4 mana without the Taunt. Taunt is typically budgeted at 0.5 mana, so it is worth 4.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 1.5 mana.
Jade Blossom: Given that Wild Growth is worth 2 mana, the Jade Golem should be worth about 1 mana. However, given that ramping mana is less valuable the closer you get to 10 mana, I’d argue the “Gain an empty Mana Crystal” is worth only about 1.75 mana, making the Jade Golem worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Shuriken: Baseline this card deals 2 damage, which is worth 1 mana. Therefore Combo: Summon a Jade Golem is worth 1 mana. Since Combo effects in game tend to be costed at the average of getting the effect and not getting the effect, I’d argue the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Swarmer: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 1/1 Stealth. 1/1 is worth 0.5 mana according to the formula without the Stealth. Stealth tends to be worth 0.5 mana, so it is worth 1 mana without the Jade Golem, meaning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.
Jade Lightning: A formula for determining how much direct damage is worth is Mana = Damage – 1. Using this, 4 damage is worth 3 mana. This means summoning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.
Jade Chieftain: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/5 with Taunt (sorta). Using the formula (and the assumption that Taunt is worth 0.5 mana), this is worth 5 mana. This means the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Claws: Weapons are very hard to figure out their mana cost, but the way I budget it is that weapons should be able to deal an average of 3 damage per mana. This means a 2/2 weapon (4 damage) is worth about 1.33 mana. Given that the card is worth 2 and has an overload of 1 (making it really worth 3 mana), this means the Jade Golem is worth 1.67 mana.
That was a lot of math that was likely wrong. But anyways, we can see that in game the value of a Jade Golem fluctuates a lot, but it tends to be between 1-1.5 mana. Given that the theoretical value is 5 mana, you can see why they are such an oppressive force on the meta.
So what’s the solution?
Well, I’m not so crazy that I think Jade Golem should be increased across the board on all cards to 5. That would be a nerf akin to Warsong Commander. But I do think there’s a problem here, and the most reasonable why I can see to fix it is to increase the value of a Jade Golem on all cards to 2 mana. Since the cards that exist right now that currently summon a 2 mana Jade Golem don’t feel very overpowered, this seems a reasonable way of adjusting the cards. This wouldn’t mean changing every card, and while it would weaken Jade Golem I think it would be a reasonable way to put Jade Golem in check. And if in theory these changes didn't go far enough, the value of a Jade Golem could be increased to 2.5, 3, etc. until the magic number for balance is found. But for now...
Though it is too powerful, there really isn’t a way to change Jade Blossom without completely ruining the card. So while I do want it changed, I’d leave it the same.
Jade Lightning either increases to 5 mana or reduces to 3 damage.
Jade Claws becomes a 1/3 weapon with overload (1).
Aya Blackpaw becomes a 3/3 or increases cost to 7 mana. While technically 2/3 or 3/2 is correct according to the formula, she is a legendary so whatever.
Thanks for reading. I know I posted a massive wall of text, so if you stuck it through I thank you. Now go ahead and tear this apart with your comments…or, you know, just post TL;DR. ;)
Cheers! Now on to ranting about Pirates... ;P
*I fully recognize that this is a simple formula, and won’t work in all cases. But it does give a general idea of how much a card is worth. I know there are a lot of minions in the game that don’t fit this formula, but I think that speaks to a systemic problem with the power curve of the game which I’ll save for another rant.
I agree with most of the suggestions, however the Jade swarmed math is off. A 1/1 is worth 0 mana, akin to Wisp or Tinyfin, as it can be killed by almost anything including hero powers. The addition of stealth cannot be removed as it is integral to the identity of rogue built up in MSOG and doesn't add very much value when compared to Worgen Inflitrator. Additionally, I disagree with your weapon change. Weapons vary incredibly in power based on their damage output and a 1/3 weapon is worth almost nothing as seen by the mana cost of the pirate which gives you such a weapon or the rogue hero power.
I think you don't need to nerf HG across the board but only nerf some key cards..
Aya at 6 is too strong, make her 7 mana
jade idol at 2 mana or just remove the shuffle 3 into summon a jade when drawn tokens.
Jade Idol should be able to shuffled once, not multiple times. So you can get a max of 6 Jades from it (by shuffling the original spell twice). That would put a cap on Druid's and allow them to run out of steam.
I agree in essence with most of your changes. I think that lightning to 3 damage and some kind of change to Aya are the most necessary to be honest though. Jade idol comes in in third, but is really hard to nerf without killing the card. Bumping the cost up 1 isnt too bad, but the aggro matchup is really rough with that change as it now competes with growth and your jades ramp slower.
i dont know what the community has against jades i'm really happy when i face them with my renolock cuz you crush them like there's no tommorow when u play smart and time your big aoes right.
Honestly, imo the only card that is problem is Jade Idol because it is incarnation of cancer. Aya,lightning etc. are all great cards but Jade Idol... I am seriously worried about HS as a game because of people who made this card.
I hate jade golems so much that I would rather just see it deleted from the game. Just looks at that tavern brawl a few weeks back with the 3 Gadgetzan bosses, the Jade golem hero power cost 4 mana. You're right about these nerfs. Jade is just so versatile that it's unfair. They get spells and minions together in the same cards that become increasingly powerful and scale into the late game. You are unlikely to have a bad curve and it just autopilots it's way to the win condition. So lame.
Nice post, although you forgot overload on Jade Claws.
The way I think of it, once you hit 5 Golems, the average value for all Jade Golems summoned this game is positive. In most games, the jades go way higher than 5, so the mechanic is undercosted.
i dont know what the community has against jades i'm really happy when i face them with my renolock cuz you crush them like there's no tommorow when u play smart and time your big aoes right.
Winning doesn't matter if the game isn't fun. Playing against jades (jade Druid specifically) is more or less the same game every time. You're always facing the same cards every time across 3 classes, and that means often you end up looking at a board of the same minions over and over again.
Its not my idea of a fun game. Not to mention how cheap jade decks are to build... every player has at least one jade deck these days.
My biggest issue with jades though is that they hard counter slow control and combo decks which are some of the funniest and most skill intensive decks in the game. Now that they don't exist in the meta, it's all just aggro and curvestone. It's just boring.
ye i can see your point but since everyone is netdecking anyway you'll see the same cards over and over again in your games.
i know that jades should counter control decks but jades autoloses against renolock.
as renolock u should have AT LEAST 80% win rate against jade
Im just a Rank 1 Player who dropped to rank 5 atm (i know im shit but still better than 99% of hearthstones playerbase :D) so when i can handle jades everyone WITH SKILL can handle them.
But i can see your point that facing the same cards in 3 classes isnt fun.
I also hate how playing a jade card is a good play at any stage in the game. They are good early game and they are good to top deck mid and late game. The whole archetype just trashes the concept of deck building with a good midrange or control mana curve. Big high cost late game legendaries hardly see any play because you can just play jade and not have to risk getting a bad opening hand.
leave Jade Swarmer alone! jade rogue is already bad and has incredibly low winrate vs pirate warrior, dragon priest, any shaman and reno decks. 2 mana 1/1 summon a 1/1 is just too slow. if you can follow it with a raptor its decent, but that still doesn't qualify as needing a nerf. Jade Idol is the main problem. druid can get up to 10/10 pretty fast, often facing 6/6 golems when im on 4-5 mana which is usually too much to overcome.
also, Jade Shuriken is absolute shit. they added the combo theme to the card which makes in garbage. Jade lightning does 2 more damage and guarantees a jade golem for a measly 2 more mana when shaman already has amazing early game unlike jade rogue. so now i have to use 2 cards to not even kill most 1 drops in the game, what utter shit. Jade n'zoth rogue is too slow vs most decks, and then its entire gameplan gets rekt by 1 card. Add the fact that rogue stupidly didnt get a 3rd jade card while shaman/druid got one with taunt and we likely wont see rogue in the new meta. the whole bounce back shit their pushing likely wont work consistently and will just be a meme deck while their legendary is trash tier.
So for the past few months there’s been a lot of complaining about Jade Golem (shocking, I know). So I wanted to take a moment and see if I can break down why they are a problem. Now this is gonna be a long post, so brace yourself. If you only want to see the proposed changes, skip to the end.
Jade Golem as a mechanic is fairly straightforward. The first time you summon one, it is a 1/1, but every time afterwards it increases by +1/+1. So if you summoned 5 of them, you’d get a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5. If you’ve played Hearthstone at any point since MSG this should be obvious. So this lead me to ask the question: What is the value of a Jade Golem?
Well, a fairly basic formula for how much a pile of stats is worth is Mana = (Attack+Health-1)/2.* So to take an example, Chillwind Yeti is a 4/5 minion. Using the formula, Mana = (4+5-1)/2 = 4. And what do you know? It costs 4 mana in game! So if we apply this formula to Jade Golem:
1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6,…x/x
= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5,…x - 0.5
So, pretty straightforward right? So over the course of a game, how many Jade Golem can you reasonably assume to summon? Well, most Jade Decks (except Rogue) have access to 10 Jade Golem per game assuming they play every card that summons a Jade Golem and do not do any additional synergy (i.e. Jade Spiritx2 + Aya Blackpaw for everyone (which is 4), Jade Claws/Jade Lightning/Jade Chieftainx2 for Shaman (which is 6), Jade Blossom/Jade Behemoth/Jade Idolx2 for Druid (which is 6), Jade Shuriken/Jade Swarmerx4 for Rogue (which is 4)). Though it is certainly possible to summon more than that, and there are many games were you don’t get that high, I think as an estimate for value that feels reasonable. So using the formula again:
1/1 + 2/2 + 3/3…+ 10/10
= 0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5…+ 9.5
= 50
Seeing that this is split over 10 minions, that means the average value of a Jade Golem is 5 mana each. NOW DON’T GET UP IN ARMS YET, I REALIZE THAT NUMBER IS WAYYY TOO HIGH! But just keep this number in mind as we look at how much they are actually valued at in-game.
In game, there are 10 cards that can summon a Jade Golem. Every one of those cards (sorta) has additional effects so that we can roughly find the value of those cards IF THEY DID NOT SUMMON A Jade Golem. Then, by taking the difference, we can see how much a Jade Golem is currently worth:
Jade Spirit: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 2/3. Using the formula that is worth about 2 mana. Given that the card is worth 4 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Aya Blackpaw: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/3. Using the formula that is worth about 3.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, and that it summons 2 Jade Golem, each Jade Golem is worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Behemoth: Without the Jade Golem, this card is a 3/6 Taunt. Using the formula, that is worth 4 mana without the Taunt. Taunt is typically budgeted at 0.5 mana, so it is worth 4.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 1.5 mana.
Jade Blossom: Given that Wild Growth is worth 2 mana, the Jade Golem should be worth about 1 mana. However, given that ramping mana is less valuable the closer you get to 10 mana, I’d argue the “Gain an empty Mana Crystal” is worth only about 1.75 mana, making the Jade Golem worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Shuriken: Baseline this card deals 2 damage, which is worth 1 mana. Therefore Combo: Summon a Jade Golem is worth 1 mana. Since Combo effects in game tend to be costed at the average of getting the effect and not getting the effect, I’d argue the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Swarmer: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 1/1 Stealth. 1/1 is worth 0.5 mana according to the formula without the Stealth. Stealth tends to be worth 0.5 mana, so it is worth 1.5 mana without the Jade Golem, meaning the Jade Golem is worth 0.5 mana.
Jade Lightning: A formula for determining how much direct damage is worth is Mana = Damage – 1. Using this, 4 damage is worth 3 mana. This means summoning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.
Jade Chieftain: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/5 with Taunt (sorta). Using the formula (and the assumption that Taunt is worth 0.5 mana), this is worth 5 mana. This means the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Claws: Weapons are very hard to figure out their mana cost, but the way I budget it is that weapons should be able to deal an average of 3 damage per mana. This means a 2/2 weapon (4 damage) is worth about 1.33 mana. Given that the card is worth 2 and has an overload of 1 (making it really worth 3 mana), this means the Jade Golem is worth 0.67 mana.
That was a lot of math that was likely wrong. But anyways, we can see that in game the value of a Jade Golem fluctuates a lot, but it tends to be between 1-1.5 mana. Given that the theoretical value is 5 mana, you can see why they are such an oppressive force on the meta.
So what’s the solution?
Well, I’m not so crazy that I think Jade Golem should be increased across the board on all cards to 5. That would be a nerf akin to Warsong Commander. But I do think there’s a problem here, and the most reasonable why I can see to fix it is to increase the value of a Jade Golem on all cards to 2 mana. Since the cards that exist right now that currently summon a 2 mana Jade Golem don’t feel very overpowered, this seems a reasonable way of adjusting the cards. This wouldn’t mean changing every card, and while it would weaken Jade Golem I think it would be a reasonable way to put Jade Golem in check. And if in theory these changes didn't go far enough, the value of a Jade Golem could be increased to 2.5, 3, etc. until the magic number for balance is found. But for now...
Though it is too powerful, there really isn’t a way to change Jade Blossom without completely ruining the card. So while I do want it changed, I’d leave it the same.
Aya Blackpaw becomes a 3/3. While technically 2/3 or 3/2 is correct according to the formula, she is a legendary so whatever.
Thanks for reading. I know I posted a massive wall of text, so if you stuck it through I thank you. Now go ahead and tear this apart with your comments…or, you know, just post TL;DR. ;)
Cheers! Now on to ranting about Pirates... ;P
*I fully recognize that this is a simple formula, and won’t work in all cases. But it does give a general idea of how much a card is worth. I know there are a lot of minions in the game that don’t fit this formula, but I think that speaks to a systemic problem with the power curve of the game which I’ll save for another rant.
I also hate how playing a jade card is a good play at any stage in the game. They are good early game and they are good to top deck mid and late game. The whole archetype just trashes the concept of deck building with a good midrange or control mana curve. Big high cost late game legendaries hardly see any play because you can just play jade and not have to risk getting a bad opening hand.
I think this is the most accurate point. Jade Idol can be good in an opening hand. or top decked in late game. Or drawn throughout the game. That makes it the best 1 drop currently in the game. Better than Trogg, better than Patches. As good as Northshire Cleric.
I think Jade decks are boring. It's simply no skill, worse than pirates. Any question on how to play a Druid Jade deck? No, it's simply either ramp or play jades depending on who you are playing.
TL;DR is that Jade Golem is under costed at ~1-1.5 mana on many of the cards when it should be ~2 mana. So I think that Aya Blackpaw, Jade Behemoth, Jade Idol, Jade Swarmer, Jade Lightning, and Jade Claws should be slightly changed to reflect that.
Introduction
So for the past few months there’s been a lot of complaining about Jade Golem (shocking, I know). So I wanted to take a moment and see if I can break down why they are a problem. Now this is gonna be a long post, so brace yourself. If you only want to see the proposed changes, skip to the end.
What is a Jade Golem worth (in theory)?
Jade Golem as a mechanic is fairly straightforward. The first time you summon one, it is a 1/1, but every time afterwards it increases by +1/+1. So if you summoned 5 of them, you’d get a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5. If you’ve played Hearthstone at any point since MSG this should be obvious. So this lead me to ask the question: What is the value of a Jade Golem?
Well, a fairly basic formula for how much a pile of stats is worth is Mana = (Attack+Health-1)/2.* So to take an example, Chillwind Yeti is a 4/5 minion. Using the formula, Mana = (4+5-1)/2 = 4. And what do you know? It costs 4 mana in game! So if we apply this formula to Jade Golem:
1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5, 6/6,…x/x
= 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5,…x - 0.5
So, pretty straightforward right? So over the course of a game, how many Jade Golem can you reasonably assume to summon? Well, most Jade Decks (except Rogue) have access to 10 Jade Golem per game assuming they play every card that summons a Jade Golem and do not do any additional synergy (i.e. Jade Spiritx2 + Aya Blackpaw for everyone (which is 4), Jade Claws/Jade Lightning/Jade Chieftainx2 for Shaman (which is 6), Jade Blossom/Jade Behemoth/Jade Idolx2 for Druid (which is 6), Jade Shuriken/Jade Swarmerx4 for Rogue (which is 4)). Though it is certainly possible to summon more than that, and there are many games were you don’t get that high, I think as an estimate for value that feels reasonable. So using the formula again:
1/1 + 2/2 + 3/3…+ 10/10
= 0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5…+ 9.5
= 50
Seeing that this is split over 10 minions, that means the average value of a Jade Golem is 5 mana each. NOW DON’T GET UP IN ARMS YET, I REALIZE THAT NUMBER IS WAYYY TOO HIGH! But just keep this number in mind as we look at how much they are actually valued at in-game.
What is a Jade Golem worth (in practice)?
In game, there are 10 cards that can summon a Jade Golem. Every one of those cards (sorta) has additional effects so that we can roughly find the value of those cards IF THEY DID NOT SUMMON A Jade Golem. Then, by taking the difference, we can see how much a Jade Golem is currently worth:
Jade Spirit: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 2/3. Using the formula that is worth about 2 mana. Given that the card is worth 4 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Aya Blackpaw: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/3. Using the formula that is worth about 3.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, and that it summons 2 Jade Golem, each Jade Golem is worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Idol: This one is easy, it is 1 mana for 1 Jade Golem. NEXT!
Jade Behemoth: Without the Jade Golem, this card is a 3/6 Taunt. Using the formula, that is worth 4 mana without the Taunt. Taunt is typically budgeted at 0.5 mana, so it is worth 4.5 mana. Given that the card is worth 6 mana, the Jade Golem is worth 1.5 mana.
Jade Blossom: Given that Wild Growth is worth 2 mana, the Jade Golem should be worth about 1 mana. However, given that ramping mana is less valuable the closer you get to 10 mana, I’d argue the “Gain an empty Mana Crystal” is worth only about 1.75 mana, making the Jade Golem worth 1.25 mana.
Jade Shuriken: Baseline this card deals 2 damage, which is worth 1 mana. Therefore Combo: Summon a Jade Golem is worth 1 mana. Since Combo effects in game tend to be costed at the average of getting the effect and not getting the effect, I’d argue the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Swarmer: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 1/1 Stealth. 1/1 is worth 0.5 mana according to the formula without the Stealth. Stealth tends to be worth 0.5 mana, so it is worth 1 mana without the Jade Golem, meaning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.
Jade Lightning: A formula for determining how much direct damage is worth is Mana = Damage – 1. Using this, 4 damage is worth 3 mana. This means summoning the Jade Golem is worth 1 mana.
Jade Chieftain: Without the Jade Golem, it is a 5/5 with Taunt (sorta). Using the formula (and the assumption that Taunt is worth 0.5 mana), this is worth 5 mana. This means the Jade Golem is worth 2 mana.
Jade Claws: Weapons are very hard to figure out their mana cost, but the way I budget it is that weapons should be able to deal an average of 3 damage per mana. This means a 2/2 weapon (4 damage) is worth about 1.33 mana. Given that the card is worth 2 and has an overload of 1 (making it really worth 3 mana), this means the Jade Golem is worth 1.67 mana.
That was a lot of math that was likely wrong. But anyways, we can see that in game the value of a Jade Golem fluctuates a lot, but it tends to be between 1-1.5 mana. Given that the theoretical value is 5 mana, you can see why they are such an oppressive force on the meta.
So what’s the solution?
Well, I’m not so crazy that I think Jade Golem should be increased across the board on all cards to 5. That would be a nerf akin to Warsong Commander. But I do think there’s a problem here, and the most reasonable why I can see to fix it is to increase the value of a Jade Golem on all cards to 2 mana. Since the cards that exist right now that currently summon a 2 mana Jade Golem don’t feel very overpowered, this seems a reasonable way of adjusting the cards. This wouldn’t mean changing every card, and while it would weaken Jade Golem I think it would be a reasonable way to put Jade Golem in check. And if in theory these changes didn't go far enough, the value of a Jade Golem could be increased to 2.5, 3, etc. until the magic number for balance is found. But for now...
Here is what I propose:
Thanks for reading. I know I posted a massive wall of text, so if you stuck it through I thank you. Now go ahead and tear this apart with your comments…or, you know, just post TL;DR. ;)
Cheers! Now on to ranting about Pirates... ;P
*I fully recognize that this is a simple formula, and won’t work in all cases. But it does give a general idea of how much a card is worth. I know there are a lot of minions in the game that don’t fit this formula, but I think that speaks to a systemic problem with the power curve of the game which I’ll save for another rant.
I admire the dedication and effort.
Agree with maybe half of the sugestions - though not perhaps all at the same time since that would likely kill the entire recipe off completely.
Don't see the value in making Jade Swarmer non-stealth, since you have a much more powerful card which is 1-1 stealth with the Poisonous attribute.
I think you don't need to nerf HG across the board but only nerf some key cards..
Aya at 6 is too strong, make her 7 mana
jade idol at 2 mana or just remove the shuffle 3 into summon a jade when drawn tokens.
I agree with most of the suggestions, however the Jade swarmed math is off. A 1/1 is worth 0 mana, akin to Wisp or Tinyfin, as it can be killed by almost anything including hero powers. The addition of stealth cannot be removed as it is integral to the identity of rogue built up in MSOG and doesn't add very much value when compared to Worgen Inflitrator. Additionally, I disagree with your weapon change. Weapons vary incredibly in power based on their damage output and a 1/3 weapon is worth almost nothing as seen by the mana cost of the pirate which gives you such a weapon or the rogue hero power.
I agree in essence with most of your changes. I think that lightning to 3 damage and some kind of change to Aya are the most necessary to be honest though. Jade idol comes in in third, but is really hard to nerf without killing the card. Bumping the cost up 1 isnt too bad, but the aggro matchup is really rough with that change as it now competes with growth and your jades ramp slower.
I think you have the cost wrong on Jade claws 3-1.33 = 1.67.
Galavant Animation
I like all of these suggestions although a blanket nerf on all these cards could force golems out of the meta (although that could be a good thing)
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i dont know what the community has against jades i'm really happy when i face them with my renolock cuz you crush them like there's no tommorow when u play smart and time your big aoes right.
Problem with jade golems? Their existance?
Honestly, imo the only card that is problem is Jade Idol because it is incarnation of cancer. Aya,lightning etc. are all great cards but Jade Idol... I am seriously worried about HS as a game because of people who made this card.
I hate jade golems so much that I would rather just see it deleted from the game. Just looks at that tavern brawl a few weeks back with the 3 Gadgetzan bosses, the Jade golem hero power cost 4 mana. You're right about these nerfs. Jade is just so versatile that it's unfair. They get spells and minions together in the same cards that become increasingly powerful and scale into the late game. You are unlikely to have a bad curve and it just autopilots it's way to the win condition. So lame.
Nice post, although you forgot overload on Jade Claws.
The way I think of it, once you hit 5 Golems, the average value for all Jade Golems summoned this game is positive. In most games, the jades go way higher than 5, so the mechanic is undercosted.
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed
Jade is not a problem.
There is no cancer deck in hearthstone ! You are the Cancer !
ye i can see your point but since everyone is netdecking anyway you'll see the same cards over and over again in your games.
i know that jades should counter control decks but jades autoloses against renolock.
as renolock u should have AT LEAST 80% win rate against jade
Im just a Rank 1 Player who dropped to rank 5 atm (i know im shit but still better than 99% of hearthstones playerbase :D) so when i can handle jades everyone WITH SKILL can handle them.
But i can see your point that facing the same cards in 3 classes isnt fun.
I also hate how playing a jade card is a good play at any stage in the game. They are good early game and they are good to top deck mid and late game. The whole archetype just trashes the concept of deck building with a good midrange or control mana curve. Big high cost late game legendaries hardly see any play because you can just play jade and not have to risk getting a bad opening hand.
leave Jade Swarmer alone! jade rogue is already bad and has incredibly low winrate vs pirate warrior, dragon priest, any shaman and reno decks. 2 mana 1/1 summon a 1/1 is just too slow. if you can follow it with a raptor its decent, but that still doesn't qualify as needing a nerf. Jade Idol is the main problem. druid can get up to 10/10 pretty fast, often facing 6/6 golems when im on 4-5 mana which is usually too much to overcome.
also, Jade Shuriken is absolute shit. they added the combo theme to the card which makes in garbage. Jade lightning does 2 more damage and guarantees a jade golem for a measly 2 more mana when shaman already has amazing early game unlike jade rogue. so now i have to use 2 cards to not even kill most 1 drops in the game, what utter shit. Jade n'zoth rogue is too slow vs most decks, and then its entire gameplan gets rekt by 1 card. Add the fact that rogue stupidly didnt get a 3rd jade card while shaman/druid got one with taunt and we likely wont see rogue in the new meta. the whole bounce back shit their pushing likely wont work consistently and will just be a meme deck while their legendary is trash tier.
Hooked HearthStone player
Greets SinFull
(Sin is in)