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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from Anarchy1 >>

    It means that a deck can be tier 1 in gold and tier 3/4 in legend. Because of meta and skill

    Exactly this. ^^
    It is an easy mistake to make, to think that just because a deck is considered "high tier", that the person using it must therefore always win. 

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from uluth >>
    Quote from Scorpyon >>

    Pretty sure I'm not wrong about my own experiences, since I experienced them and you didn't, but... you do you. lol

    But by all means, present your evidence of me being "wrong" and I will gladly take a look. Otherwise, your bluster is just that. Nothing more than your opinion presented as fact.

    Thanks in advance.

     I think that’s where the disconnect is. I’m not questioning your own experience on ladder - in fact, I believe that you are not facing the decks we’re referring to a lot and like I said, that’s good for you. But we are discussing the meta snapshot as a whole, with the established consensus being that Druid and DH are at the top of the pile because of their Questlines, and that Combo Mage is successful because of the Drakefire Amulet interaction. As you can see by the bans that went into effect earlier, three cards were targeted that play key roles in those three decks, with the devs agreeing that they were problematic. 

    Just as an example, I am personally running a non-quest Druid deck (budget hyper-aggro) and I’m doing very well with it… but I am not a representation of the meta.

    To be fair though, right or wrong, this is still just people's opinion and personal experiences - as I was trying to explain - I have still yet to be shown any actual factual information about the meta that shows that everyone is only playing Quest decks. As yet, I've seen none - and I'll say again that if any is posted, I am happy to take a look at it; I don't even mind if I am wrong either way, but I simply don't get easily swayed by "No, you!" arguments where people just say "you're wrong" without providing any evidence to that.
    So far, the only data anyone has posted that I have seen has been percentages of win rates for the whole class which really doesn't tell us anything about whether those classes are playing quest or not. That was my whole point.

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from emkarab >>
    Quote from Scorpyon >>

    Pretty sure I'm not wrong about my own experiences, since I experienced them and you didn't, but... you do you. lol

    But by all means, present your evidence of me being "wrong" and I will gladly take a look. Otherwise, your bluster is just that. Nothing more than your opinion presented as fact.

    Thanks in advance.

     Well, I presented you HS replay statistics and you presented nothing but "i won some games". I don't say you're wrong about your experiences, as we weren't even told too much about them. I just say you're wrong about your conclusions - there is no non-quest successful DH and Druid deck above Gold and there is no successful Warlock above Gold as well.

     Well, no, we both know that's not true. I explained quite clearly (I thought) that the HSReplay statistics represented above were not indicative of what the poster was claiming since they did not delineate between specific deck archetypes as opposed to class. 
    And then you added your own personal experience of what you face in Bronze to Gold, which (based on your own argument) holds no merit. 

    As detailed earlier, there is clear evidence in the infograph above that there are "successful" decks - though your definition of the term may vary - that don't have to be "Quest" decks.

    And with those facts presented, I think I am happy to end this discourse now, as I can see this deteriorating into something along the lines of a "No, you!" argument. Shouting each other down about personal experiences in this game doesn't really get us anywhere, I have found, so I would prefer not to partake. 

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...

    Pretty sure I'm not wrong about my own experiences, since I experienced them and you didn't, but... you do you. lol

    But by all means, present your evidence of me being "wrong" and I will gladly take a look. Otherwise, your bluster is just that. Nothing more than your opinion presented as fact.

    Thanks in advance.

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from brother >>

    it's good to see that you're not personally facing many quest decks, but i'll have to refer to the HSReplay class winrates to illustrate a broader spectrum of the overall meta. As you can see, Quest Druid and Quest DH are topping out at over 55% winrate with Quest Shaman and Combo mage trailing behind them. Warlock on the other hand is sitting at the very bottom at a 36.3%, which is pretty abysmal and frankly shocking considering that not even DK is struggling that badly despite having the smallest card pool by far. My assumption is that Implock would not stand a chance if you were to run into the main questline decks that are dominating the meta, especially if they were being piloted properly. 

     

    twist meta 6-30-23

     Not to say you're right or wrong there, but probably worth noting that "Druid" and "Quest Druid" are not the same thing. 
    I've faced plenty of druids who aren't playing quest. Same with Demon Hunter. 
    All this infograph shows is that Druid and Demon Hunter are currently holding the best winrates, not the archetype that is most commonly used. There's more decks than "Quest" decks out there, my man. :-) 

    Also, you're looking at a Meta-state with barely a week of the new meta played (let alone a whole new format). This data isn't really representative in a particularly useful way yet since decks havent been refined or optimised by barely any measure just yet.

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from uluth >>
    Quote from fiercepancake >>

    The countdown is because its a ranked mode that restarts on July 1st.  There is a special questline for the New Age twist that is scheduled to run during July.  This particular twist lasts more than 4 days.

     Thank you for this as a lot of people actually think this format will be over on the 1st, which would be insane as they’re selling people New Age decks for $20 (why would anyone spend that for a ruleset that’s expiring in a couple of hours??). The sad part is this idea could be interesting if it wasn’t for the inclusion of Stormwind into the card pool. Remove the Questlines from that set, as well as the mage spell that discovers 2 copies of Haleh, and there would be some room for experimentation.

     Weirdly, I have only ever seen one opponent playing a quest so far and that was a Quest Shaman.
    It didn't go very well for him against ImpLock. 

    And on that note, the reload for ImpLock now is INSANELY good. Every turn you basically flood the board with imps until they can't deal with them any more. Well worth a play if you just want to ladder climb without much fun. (I find ImpLock very boring to play, but I can't deny it wins almost every game - that's the downside of aggro decks, really).

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from fiercepancake >>

    The countdown is because its a ranked mode that restarts on July 1st.  There is a special questline for the New Age twist that is scheduled to run during July.  This particular twist lasts more than 4 days.

     The more you know. :-) 

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on What is your most hated card of all time?
    Quote from D_Lord >>
    Quote from Scorpyon >>

    Unpopular opinion incoming :
    Hands down, the worst and most uninspiring card ever made has to be the original C'Thun when it first came out. 
    Was the most boring and overused finisher for me - forced the meta at the time to be 100% C'thun decks with little variation and almost ended my enjoyment of Hearthstone right there. 
    Fortunately it was saved by the arrival of the next expansion (G&G I think it might have been)

     Maybe I am remembering this wrongly, but was OG C'thun even played a lot? I remember especially druids and slower ctrl decks using it but I also remember that the Old Gods meta was pretty good with other potential finishers like N'Zoth that were more popular at the time. I could be wrong though

     It was almost every deck I faced. You literally couldn't get away from it at the time, lol

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from D_Lord >>
     

    I also just want to repeat that this mode will stay until the beginning of August, just because it seems like some players don't know that.

     

     That's odd. There is literally a countdown timer in the game right now for Twist that says this one is ending in about 9 hours... o.O

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...

    I think that people are also forgetting that the whole mode will change up in a day or so. This first one was intentionally wide-reaching in terms of card pools, so it was always going to be more like Wild (which is possibly why I've not enjoyed it so much and had to resort to just playing icky ImpLock to actually climb the ladder).

    I would hope that new seasons of Twist will bring with it something new and different each time and it wont be the usual few suspect decks each time that are oppressive and lacking fun.

    That said, I could always be wrong there and it could indeed remain like that. We will have to wait and see in a days time.

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from Zizka >>

    In a weirdly technical way? I know you’ve said that you retract your statement but I want to explain something which you might’ve missed.

    Classic getting axed is beneficial for Blizzard because:

    a. No one was playing it.

    b. Classic had little incentive to buy any cards at all.

    Twist, on the other hand, has a huge incentive to buy cards from the previous expansions which would otherwise be limited to wild. From a business standpoint, cycling the meta often is beneficial because people will want to have the best decks in the current Twist meta leading to more investment. 

    So, it’s not a paid expansion, no. It is free. Yes. But it’s free as part of a business model to lure players into spending money on the game. It’s free because it’ll bring more profit that way than setting it behind a paywall. That’s the only reason why. There’s nothing to be ‘grateful’ about here. Blizzard is doing what’s best for Blizzard. I can assure you 100% that if Hearthstone made more money with a paywall, they’d do it. I can only assume you’re not professionally invested in the business world but if you think for a second that Blizzard offers new mode as a gift to humanity and that customers should be grateful for it, you’re in for very rude awakening. I’m not saying this to be patronising so I hope it doesn’t come across that way. Corporations as entity are amoral and serve only one goal. 

    I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure if there is a question there to answer, and I'd like to avoid a "No, you..." type of argument if possible. 
    I'm not sure what the part regarding being "professionally invested" was asking, but no, I'm not invested in Blizzard either professionally, or unprofessionally - unless being a Hearthstone player constitutes being "invested". Perhaps it does :-) 

    It seems like we simply have a differing view of what constitutes "free" in this particular instance. That's cool, let's leave it at that perhaps? I'd like to move on, personally...

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on IM REALLY GETTING ANNOYED!

    This should have been posted in the Salt Thread. 
    I don't really see it producing anything positive, so locking it now before it spirals.

    Locked.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...

    It is a paid expansion for anyone who either never had or dusted the relevant sets though, right? 

    It's a way for them to bring cards that rotated out back into a new rotation, frequently and unpredictably. And if you're currently a paid up classic/standard player and the mode you want to play has ceased to exist but to keep playing its replacement you now need to craft a bunch of Ashes of Outland cards which you can only use for a month.... Well that's not free and I would feel pretty ungrateful. 

    Heh, well I suppose if you want to look at it that way, then yes in a weirdly technical way, it could be considered a paid expansion. But let's be honest, that's also a little bit of a stretch to go that far :-D 
    And wasn't the original point that nobody (generally) plays Classic mode? 
    But either way, it's not a big thing. I'll retract my comment rather than spawn a long debate about a tangent. Heh! :-) 

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from Zizka >>

    Complaining about free stuff seems... ungrateful at best.

    Come on scorpion, ''free stuff''? ''Ungrateful''? Are we talking about a corporation here? I had to double-check your username to make you had actually written this as you're one of the reasonable member of this community but this comes across as extremely naive. This isn't a 'gift' to the userbase, it's a business model. So, yeah, ungrateful and free is really, really beside the point.

    Hmm. Sorry, perhaps my point was badly worded in my comment - or didn't come across as I meant it.
    What I was getting at is that the new mode isn't something that is being charged for (as far as I know), hence the logic behind it being referred to as "free". 
    And when someone offers you something new to experience that doesn't cost anything, throwing it back with anger because it wasn't exactly what you wanted seems somewhat... inappropriate to me, that's all. 

    If it was a paid expansion, or you had to pay-to-play, like Arena, etc, then I could certainly understand the "outrage" at the mechanics and details more. 

    Posted in: Twist Format
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    posted a message on Twist - What a shame ...
    Quote from Toribasher >>
    Quote from Metanoy >>
    Classic was supposed to be a here to stay mode

     No one played Classic.

     This ^^

    You can't really complain about losing something that nobody ever legitimately used, especially when you are getting something to replace it that doesn't affect anything else and you are not required to actually use either. 

    Complaining about free stuff seems... ungrateful at best.

    Posted in: Twist Format
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