Here is my latest scenario. He has a turn 1 random 1 drop from the 0 cast spell that MUST be dealt with this turn, otherwise it will get a hand of adal and its gg. The only play i have on 2 mana with coin in hand, is to play Kolkar Pack Runner, coin, arcane shot. It's THE only play. If i just play Pack runner...it dies to Adal...gg. If I just play Arcane Shot...not using mana efficiently and likely gg. So... I go with Pack Runner, coin...
Oh My Yogg resolves...its a Shadowstep. Counters my spell. leaves me with no minion and not even enough mana to play Arcane Shot. GG Concede. Oh My Yogg is busted. Paladin in general is busted right now as seen by its Win Rate. There are just way too many efficient early game plays from Paladin right now that simply cant be dealt with by a vast majority of classes. Anyone not using Paladin to climb ladder right now is a fool.
Something doesn’t add up here.
So the pally is on the play and you are on the draw (you have the coin).
T1 is First Day of School and the 1 drop for the pally.
Your T1 is nothing?
T2 for the pally is Oh My Yogg + pass, instead of Hand of Adal?
Your T2 is Kolkar + Coin + Arcane Shot because you need the 4 damage (Arcane + 2x Hyena) to kill the 1 drop?
If that was the sequence, then why expect Hand of Adal if it wasn’t played on T2? Was the 1 drop the priest 1/4? If not, why play Kolkar first instead of Coin? That would give one less target for minion spells and you could still drop the Kolkar after.
So yeah, probably misread the situation and misplayed your turn.
Maybe I dont remember the situation EXACTLY to the tee. But i'm sure he had 1 drop that was threatening, then I believe the weapon pulled the secret maybe on turn 2, then i had to respond. But whatever it was regardless... He had a minion that NEEDED to be dealt with or i'm so far behind its concede time. The only play in my hand that made sense was Kolkar, Coin, Arcane Shot.
The Oh My Yogg essentially negated THREE of my cards for 1 of his. And yes I understand that maybe this scenario is rare...but when it's so utterly back breaking of an effect from a 1 mana secret he cheated out for free, it just feels so terrible. Not fun in any way. Just a hopeless game. Is that the kind of effects we still want in the game? Random effects that can cause stuff like this to happen?
People comparing Oh My Yogg! to Counterspell are missing the context of Counterspell being in Mage. OMY might be 1 mana on its own, and maybe it gets cheated out of the deck for free (only sometimes) - it's annoying but easy to play around.
I know it's not always possible to "play around X" but that's just how card games work. You won't/can't always have all the answers to things. Save the Coin if OMY bothers you enough. I play Call to Arms in Wild - Oh My Yogg! absolutely devastates the whole point of my deck. I won't play First Day of School or The Coin until turn 4 so I can confirm the cast of what I need. Sometimes I don't get the Coin or First Day. Then I'll hold Call just so I don't board wipe myself, and I play it out until I can bait the OMY. I have a positive WR against Secret Paly in Wild. Now this is all anecdotal so it doesn't really mean anything - but I just thought I'd share my 2 cents.
Oh my yogg is too good for 1 mana. Most of the time is a 1 mana counter spell. Playing around it isn’t always possible and even if you do play around it it can still bend you over a table. Not to mention it’s not like you know it’s OMY. When you “play around it” you’re really just hoping you’re not throwing a card away unnecessarily.
People comparing Oh My Yogg! to Counterspell are missing the context of Counterspell being in Mage. OMY might be 1 mana on its own, and maybe it gets cheated out of the deck for free (only sometimes) - it's annoying but easy to play around.
I know it's not always possible to "play around X" but that's just how card games work. You won't/can't always have all the answers to things. Save the Coin if OMY bothers you enough. I play Call to Arms in Wild - Oh My Yogg! absolutely devastates the whole point of my deck. I won't play First Day of School or The Coin until turn 4 so I can confirm the cast of what I need. Sometimes I don't get the Coin or First Day. Then I'll hold Call just so I don't board wipe myself, and I play it out until I can bait the OMY. I have a positive WR against Secret Paly in Wild. Now this is all anecdotal so it doesn't really mean anything - but I just thought I'd share my 2 cents.
Counter spell isn’t usually out in decks in standard because of its cost and ease of being played around. Using wild as an argument here when the issue is standard is pointless.
I really like the card because of what it does to 10 cost spells. There are literally two in standard so it guarantees the other one.
I believe it is possible for Oh My Yogg! to turn a spell into itself. I've seen it happen at least once.
If you cast an undiscounted Libram of Hope and it gets Oh My Yogg!'ed, it will still cast the same spell as it is the only 9-mana spell in standard right now. You will still get the 8/8 taunt/DS, however the target of the healing will be random (your hero, the enemy hero or any minion on board)
Maybe I dont remember the situation EXACTLY to the tee. But i'm sure he had 1 drop that was threatening, then I believe the weapon pulled the secret maybe on turn 2, then i had to respond. But whatever it was regardless... He had a minion that NEEDED to be dealt with or i'm so far behind its concede time. The only play in my hand that made sense was Kolkar, Coin, Arcane Shot.
The Oh My Yogg essentially negated THREE of my cards for 1 of his. And yes I understand that maybe this scenario is rare...but when it's so utterly back breaking of an effect from a 1 mana secret he cheated out for free, it just feels so terrible. Not fun in any way. Just a hopeless game. Is that the kind of effects we still want in the game? Random effects that can cause stuff like this to happen?
My point is that if Hand of Adal is the game winning move, the paladin would play it, right? So now what does not playing it say about the hand of the pally?
The other point is that your order wasn’t the only one unless it was a 4 health minion. Even then I would argue that - taking OMY into account - Coin first would be the better play as you can still get the Kolkar on board.
good: Backstab, Pounce, Sigil of Silence - these would allow you to clear a 4 health minion or delay Hand of Adal. Backstab becomes 50-50 bad with a minion on your side though!
So overall a better outcome if you don’t play the Kolkar first.
I normally decide which spell I'd rather get countered and do my best to play around it so that I don't run into situations where a poor decision made by me results in an immediate lost game and a forum post.
easy to say when you're not dying, but when paladin has the 3 mana guy that becomes an 8/8 within a turn, and a few secrets, you simply cannot afford to choose a spell to get countered. Especially when the blade allows them to draw oh my yogg back to back, turn after turn. It's simply more pwoerful than a counterspell, because it can also buff their board.
Here is my latest scenario. He has a turn 1 random 1 drop from the 0 cast spell that MUST be dealt with this turn, otherwise it will get a hand of adal and its gg. The only play i have on 2 mana with coin in hand, is to play Kolkar Pack Runner, coin, arcane shot. It's THE only play. If i just play Pack runner...it dies to Adal...gg. If I just play Arcane Shot...not using mana efficiently and likely gg. So... I go with Pack Runner, coin...
Oh My Yogg resolves...its a Shadowstep. Counters my spell. leaves me with no minion and not even enough mana to play Arcane Shot. GG Concede. Oh My Yogg is busted. Paladin in general is busted right now as seen by its Win Rate. There are just way too many efficient early game plays from Paladin right now that simply cant be dealt with by a vast majority of classes. Anyone not using Paladin to climb ladder right now is a fool.
If you think one Hand of Adal is enough to concede then you're terrible at this game and should probably just quit
I normally decide which spell I'd rather get countered and do my best to play around it so that I don't run into situations where a poor decision made by me results in an immediate lost game and a forum post.
easy to say when you're not dying, but when paladin has the 3 mana guy that becomes an 8/8 within a turn, and a few secrets, you simply cannot afford to choose a spell to get countered. Especially when the blade allows them to draw oh my yogg back to back, turn after turn. It's simply more pwoerful than a counterspell, because it can also buff their board.
It's not more powerful, because it can also give you something from a different class that does more than you were hoping.
By the "3 mana that can become an 8/8" I assume you mean Crossroads Gossiper. First of all, it can't become an 8/8, it would be an 8/7. That aside, if your opponeny has multiple secrets and you didn't kill the Gossiper before anything else, that's your fault. If he has exactly Truthseeker + Gossiper + Oh My Yogg + Avenge then maybe, but in most scenarios that isn't the case.
It's not that bad. You're either playing a hard aggro deck in which case get some skill and play a real deck, or you just dont know how to play around things in which case go try casual or something
Here is my latest scenario. He has a turn 1 random 1 drop from the 0 cast spell that MUST be dealt with this turn, otherwise it will get a hand of adal and its gg. The only play i have on 2 mana with coin in hand, is to play Kolkar Pack Runner, coin, arcane shot. It's THE only play. If i just play Pack runner...it dies to Adal...gg. If I just play Arcane Shot...not using mana efficiently and likely gg. So... I go with Pack Runner, coin...
Oh My Yogg resolves...its a Shadowstep. Counters my spell. leaves me with no minion and not even enough mana to play Arcane Shot. GG Concede. Oh My Yogg is busted. Paladin in general is busted right now as seen by its Win Rate. There are just way too many efficient early game plays from Paladin right now that simply cant be dealt with by a vast majority of classes. Anyone not using Paladin to climb ladder right now is a fool.
If you think one Hand of Adal is enough to concede then you're terrible at this game and should probably just quit
I don’t think you understand how Hearthstone works
I don't think I have ever had a bad experience playing against OMY. If anything, most of them have been amazing because it often goes in my favour by giving me a much better spell than the one I cast. In fact, the opponent playing OMY has won me the game on a number of occasions. If I'm playing against Secret Paladin, I will always - I mean ALWAYS - keep a spare throwaway spell to test for OMY when I want to cast something that is important to me. And if you have the coin, it's "Thank you very much" time - you are usually likely to get either the druid 0-cost mana ramp (which doesn't affect you at all) , or (at worst) something like Backstab, which if you are smart will help remove one of the opponent's minions for you. Again, thanks very much Mr Paladin! Lol!
It's a "Bad" counterspell, basically, (Hence why it costs less, I suppose), because it doesn't prevent you from still doing something powerful if you are smart and play the secret against itself.
People comparing Oh My Yogg! to Counterspell are missing the context of Counterspell being in Mage. OMY might be 1 mana on its own, and maybe it gets cheated out of the deck for free (only sometimes) - it's annoying but easy to play around.
I know it's not always possible to "play around X" but that's just how card games work. You won't/can't always have all the answers to things. Save the Coin if OMY bothers you enough. I play Call to Arms in Wild - Oh My Yogg! absolutely devastates the whole point of my deck. I won't play First Day of School or The Coin until turn 4 so I can confirm the cast of what I need. Sometimes I don't get the Coin or First Day. Then I'll hold Call just so I don't board wipe myself, and I play it out until I can bait the OMY. I have a positive WR against Secret Paly in Wild. Now this is all anecdotal so it doesn't really mean anything - but I just thought I'd share my 2 cents.
I fully agree that mana cost is not an issue here, it's rather the combination of counterspell-like effect and an aggressive tempo deck. Mage is not minion heavy class, so she rarely forces you to use removals in early game. For this reason, even if she counterspells you, it usually takes away some of your temp or negates your next pro-acrive play, but It doesn't put you in a position where you're practically dead, because your only survival tool is gone. And even if it does sometimes, it usually happens much later in the game, giving you more time to get more cards and play around it. Paladin can simply do it too early and if you can't answer immediately to his board, it's often gg.
In that situation you could have coined first to guarantee Arcane Shot. You would summon 1 less 1/1 rush minion had the secret been something else but it’s a safer play.
I don't think I have ever had a bad experience playing against OMY. If anything, most of them have been amazing because it often goes in my favour by giving me a much better spell than the one I cast. In fact, the opponent playing OMY has won me the game on a number of occasions. If I'm playing against Secret Paladin, I will always - I mean ALWAYS - keep a spare throwaway spell to test for OMY when I want to cast something that is important to me. And if you have the coin, it's "Thank you very much" time - you are usually likely to get either the druid 0-cost mana ramp (which doesn't affect you at all) , or (at worst) something like Backstab, which if you are smart will help remove one of the opponent's minions for you. Again, thanks very much Mr Paladin! Lol!
It's a "Bad" counterspell, basically, (Hence why it costs less, I suppose), because it doesn't prevent you from still doing something powerful if you are smart and play the secret against itself.
Yeah it’s another card that players will love or hate depending on what they run. If players don’t have any throwaway spells then an early OMY will wreck them and the card will appear broken. If your decks runs cards like Innervate or First Day of School then it’s a different story.
I dislike the card a lot but I wouldn’t say it’s any more overpowered than anything else in the meta. It’s just very polarising.
The brokenness of this card may be debatable but it is part of a very strong overall package. Every class has very strong/broken cards but usually there are ways to counter them. With Paladin, the counter to your counter is usually already in play. Wanna cast a spell to get rid of a buffed minion? OMY. Oh, you destroyed that minion? Avenge to another one. So you are playing your third card in a row now? Here's a taunt. And sometimes you know you are walking into a trap but have no other option but to play otherwise you'd play nothing and that is also problematic.
Whether there is a problem with the whole package or individual cards can always be debated but weakening cards weakens the overall package by default. The nerfs they made didn't help and Paladin's WR confirms that.
- transformed my coin into Raise Dead, but there were no dead minions
- turned my Stage Dive into Holy Smite, and killed my minion with that
I didn't concede even after those events happened in two different games, but lost mostly because of Oh My Yogg! shenanigans
I really like the card because of what it does to 10 cost spells. There are literally two in standard so it guarantees the other one.
I believe it is possible for Oh My Yogg! to turn a spell into itself. I've seen it happen at least once.
Maybe I dont remember the situation EXACTLY to the tee. But i'm sure he had 1 drop that was threatening, then I believe the weapon pulled the secret maybe on turn 2, then i had to respond. But whatever it was regardless... He had a minion that NEEDED to be dealt with or i'm so far behind its concede time. The only play in my hand that made sense was Kolkar, Coin, Arcane Shot.
The Oh My Yogg essentially negated THREE of my cards for 1 of his. And yes I understand that maybe this scenario is rare...but when it's so utterly back breaking of an effect from a 1 mana secret he cheated out for free, it just feels so terrible. Not fun in any way. Just a hopeless game. Is that the kind of effects we still want in the game? Random effects that can cause stuff like this to happen?
it’s the effects Blizzard want. Incredibly broken cards that end the game there and then are very common.
I mean in your case, if he didn’t have Oh My Yogg, you would have gained 4/5 worth of stats from a 2-drop, which is game winning a lot of the time.
People comparing Oh My Yogg! to Counterspell are missing the context of Counterspell being in Mage. OMY might be 1 mana on its own, and maybe it gets cheated out of the deck for free (only sometimes) - it's annoying but easy to play around.
Counterspell doesn't really cost 3 mana, right? In standard it can cost (1) because of Game Master, or (2) bundled with another secret with Ring Toss. Not to mention Inconspicuous Rider. In Wild it'll cost (0) more often than it doesn't with Kabal Lackey, Ancient Mysteries, or Kirin Tor Mage. And then there's Mad Scientist. Counterspell is powerful, and it's free or cheap all the time.
I know it's not always possible to "play around X" but that's just how card games work. You won't/can't always have all the answers to things. Save the Coin if OMY bothers you enough. I play Call to Arms in Wild - Oh My Yogg! absolutely devastates the whole point of my deck. I won't play First Day of School or The Coin until turn 4 so I can confirm the cast of what I need. Sometimes I don't get the Coin or First Day. Then I'll hold Call just so I don't board wipe myself, and I play it out until I can bait the OMY. I have a positive WR against Secret Paly in Wild. Now this is all anecdotal so it doesn't really mean anything - but I just thought I'd share my 2 cents.
please don't bully my son
Oh my yogg is too good for 1 mana. Most of the time is a 1 mana counter spell. Playing around it isn’t always possible and even if you do play around it it can still bend you over a table. Not to mention it’s not like you know it’s OMY. When you “play around it” you’re really just hoping you’re not throwing a card away unnecessarily.
Counter spell isn’t usually out in decks in standard because of its cost and ease of being played around. Using wild as an argument here when the issue is standard is pointless.
If you cast an undiscounted Libram of Hope and it gets Oh My Yogg!'ed, it will still cast the same spell as it is the only 9-mana spell in standard right now. You will still get the 8/8 taunt/DS, however the target of the healing will be random (your hero, the enemy hero or any minion on board)
I've been playing Secret Paladin, twice now I've seen people insta concede after they got Yogg'd into Shadow Council lololol
My point is that if Hand of Adal is the game winning move, the paladin would play it, right? So now what does not playing it say about the hand of the pally?
The other point is that your order wasn’t the only one unless it was a 4 health minion. Even then I would argue that - taking OMY into account - Coin first would be the better play as you can still get the Kolkar on board.
Looking through the 0 cost spells:
bad: Shadowstep, Ritual of Doom, Raise Dead, Desperate Prayer, First Day of School - the first two severely if you have a minion. (I guess you could get Paveling Book or Wand Thief into Brain Freeze or Devolving Missiles from First Day.)
neutral: Innervate, Flurry (Rank 1), Lightning Bloom, Preparation - mana or a freeze. Freeze being the worst of these, the rest would allow you to clear a 3 health minion and then potentially trade.
good: Backstab, Pounce, Sigil of Silence - these would allow you to clear a 4 health minion or delay Hand of Adal. Backstab becomes 50-50 bad with a minion on your side though!
So overall a better outcome if you don’t play the Kolkar first.
easy to say when you're not dying, but when paladin has the 3 mana guy that becomes an 8/8 within a turn, and a few secrets, you simply cannot afford to choose a spell to get countered. Especially when the blade allows them to draw oh my yogg back to back, turn after turn. It's simply more pwoerful than a counterspell, because it can also buff their board.
If you think one Hand of Adal is enough to concede then you're terrible at this game and should probably just quit
It's not more powerful, because it can also give you something from a different class that does more than you were hoping.
By the "3 mana that can become an 8/8" I assume you mean Crossroads Gossiper. First of all, it can't become an 8/8, it would be an 8/7. That aside, if your opponeny has multiple secrets and you didn't kill the Gossiper before anything else, that's your fault. If he has exactly Truthseeker + Gossiper + Oh My Yogg + Avenge then maybe, but in most scenarios that isn't the case.
It's not that bad. You're either playing a hard aggro deck in which case get some skill and play a real deck, or you just dont know how to play around things in which case go try casual or something
I don’t think you understand how Hearthstone works
I don't think I have ever had a bad experience playing against OMY.
If anything, most of them have been amazing because it often goes in my favour by giving me a much better spell than the one I cast. In fact, the opponent playing OMY has won me the game on a number of occasions.
If I'm playing against Secret Paladin, I will always - I mean ALWAYS - keep a spare throwaway spell to test for OMY when I want to cast something that is important to me.
And if you have the coin, it's "Thank you very much" time - you are usually likely to get either the druid 0-cost mana ramp (which doesn't affect you at all) , or (at worst) something like Backstab, which if you are smart will help remove one of the opponent's minions for you. Again, thanks very much Mr Paladin! Lol!
It's a "Bad" counterspell, basically, (Hence why it costs less, I suppose), because it doesn't prevent you from still doing something powerful if you are smart and play the secret against itself.
I fully agree that mana cost is not an issue here, it's rather the combination of counterspell-like effect and an aggressive tempo deck. Mage is not minion heavy class, so she rarely forces you to use removals in early game. For this reason, even if she counterspells you, it usually takes away some of your temp or negates your next pro-acrive play, but It doesn't put you in a position where you're practically dead, because your only survival tool is gone. And even if it does sometimes, it usually happens much later in the game, giving you more time to get more cards and play around it. Paladin can simply do it too early and if you can't answer immediately to his board, it's often gg.
@Zangoosed
I thought I’d posted this but I guess not...
In that situation you could have coined first to guarantee Arcane Shot. You would summon 1 less 1/1 rush minion had the secret been something else but it’s a safer play.
Yeah it’s another card that players will love or hate depending on what they run. If players don’t have any throwaway spells then an early OMY will wreck them and the card will appear broken. If your decks runs cards like Innervate or First Day of School then it’s a different story.
I dislike the card a lot but I wouldn’t say it’s any more overpowered than anything else in the meta. It’s just very polarising.
The brokenness of this card may be debatable but it is part of a very strong overall package. Every class has very strong/broken cards but usually there are ways to counter them. With Paladin, the counter to your counter is usually already in play. Wanna cast a spell to get rid of a buffed minion? OMY. Oh, you destroyed that minion? Avenge to another one. So you are playing your third card in a row now? Here's a taunt. And sometimes you know you are walking into a trap but have no other option but to play otherwise you'd play nothing and that is also problematic.
Whether there is a problem with the whole package or individual cards can always be debated but weakening cards weakens the overall package by default. The nerfs they made didn't help and Paladin's WR confirms that.