The first day slowly passes for EU, while the states have been testing new stuff for almost two days.
I still haven't found the time to play a lot of games, but i had more than a few games against Zoo, my former worst matchup, and Jade tools proved more than valuable against them (together with the mini buccaneer and Defenders of Argus). What i really like about golems is that they are actually quite adaptive, their size follows the flow of the game nicely if you get a good curve, and Rogue's good at it. I haven't tried out the Jade Spirit yet, it seems like a waste of tempo compared to Shurikens and Swarmer/Raptor combo, and i don't think it pays off to have Shadowstep in the deck for them.
Also, i haven't opened Aya yet (i miss about 200 dust for her), i think she's great for longer games to keep the steady flow of bigger and bigger golems. If that's not enough, i believe N'Zoth is a great game closer too, since you'll get four more enormous golems if your swarmers and Aya died during the game.
Shadowcasting Aya seems like an auto-concede if you have the board control.
All that said, i kinda get it why Rogue didn't receive their third Jade Golem card, they would probably stomp everything in their way.
It's been so much fun. I played Golems with Druid and the deck sucked so much that I almost regretted crafting Aya. I hated it not because it was not good (which it wasn't tbh), but because of how boring it was. Druid just doesn't have a lot of options, and most of the time the play was just obvious. With Rogue though, it was a bit different and I enjoyed making a Deathrattle-Jade deck. It works against Aggro a lot better than the Druid counterpart. Still trying to find the right mix of cards though. So far my favorite deck --- funny enough. Doubted the archetype since Day 1. :P
I haven't played it because it's so fucking ridiculously anti-control that I'd just feel bad for whoever doesn't main aggro ("midrange"). That said, it's incredibly good at what it does. Too good.
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Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
Pretty badly, whenever i face a normal (not the miracle version but the one that just runs all cards) Jade druid i feel he does everything better than me, Ramped Behemoth, ramped golems, he summons golems unconditionally with no need for weird exact two precise cards shenanigans like shadowstep+spirit (yes i tried it despite telling everyone it wouldn't work and i was correct) or raptor+swarmer and eventually he outgrows my golems and protects his own golems with Ancient of War. on the other hand Lotus Agents are amazing, i didn't expect them to be that good but i guess i ate my piece of humble pie.
I got like a 60% winrate with my Jade Rogue, although I haven't done much climbing, too busy testing out Miracle with Red Wyrm and doing actual productive things in life.
I got like a 60% winrate with my Jade Rogue, although I haven't done much climbing, too busy testing out Miracle with Red Wyrm and doing actual productive things in life.
How's it been workig out for you? I find it a much better choice that Questing Adventurer, though the fact that causes some trouble is that it's in 6 mana slot with Auctioneer, so setup can be clunky. I'm trying out a combination of two Sprints instead o Auctioneers, doesn't seem bad.
For everyone playing Jade Rogue, i find Baron Rivendare a good inclusion. I run Swarmers, Hucksters, Thalnos, Shredders, Belchers, Aya in a few days, so it's really valuable, plus it's really hard to remove and opponents don't really consider it a prime target.
Really nice curve is T1 coin + shuriken, T2 swarmer, T3 raptor on swarmer, T4 baron, crash swarmer and raptor for 2/2, 3/3, 4/4 and 5/5, it's not that hard to pull off. Plus whenever you drop Baron you'll certainly net some value. Tried a few games this morning, besides success with zoo, i also didn't have problems with Pirate Warrior and Flamewanker mage, which were usually bad matchups. Got wasted by a Jade Druid though, that N'Zoth just didn't want to get topdecked. Jade Spirit's not bad too, you'll rarely drop it first, so it's usually 2/3 + 2/2 which makes it even for its cost.
Jade decks are awful, I'm 17-1 vs Jade decks with Renolock and if you can't consistently beat a control deck what is the point of the archetype? Jade Shaman might work come rotation or nerfs just because you're playing the tempo game with them.
I've had really good success with my jade rogue (probably around 65-75% win rate). I have all the jade cards in with raptors, shadowcasters, n'zoth and mistress. I've beaten jade druid the two times I played it though the second time we both got pretty dream combos/hands the whole way through and I'm not sure I would've won if I wasn't able to Shadowstep my N'Zoth. I like how it has tons of answers for early game and late game minions, and ramps up its golems pretty quickly. The downsides I would say are inconsistent healing (I think I've only played one aggro warrior) and easily running out of cards (even with two drakes, thalnos, two fans).
Tempo/early version failed vs everything, Golems are too slow for this kind of gameplay.
Normal nzoth. I had several issues with empty hand.
Miracle Nzoth. Cutting out gimmicks like Brann and shadowsteps and using just the core jade and the core miracle cards is what I'm running down.
The last version is working ok in the lower ranks. I feel the card that's pulling the deck ahead is Mistress of Mixtures.
Jade druid destroys me so far, although they had pretty crazy hands so far (p.e. thistle out of agents gave one opponent 3ple jade behemoths...)
Fairing pretty well vs mid decks like Dragon priest, buff paladin/warrior. Aggro I'm pretty even, zoo destroys me. 1:1 vs mid shaman!
The deck is maybe t3 from what I can tell.
I'm happy xaril finally pulls his weight, all 5 toxins are pretty good (stealth for auctioneer , damage for removal, buff for stealthed, draw for draw, Shadowstep for spirits/aya/zoth)
I'm pretty sad that after I'll craft Aya I don't think I'll be able to fit VC anymore.
I think my biggest disappointement is Mistress of Mixtures. I didn't expected how odd this card is, ending up either in my hand or giving more benefits to my opponent than me.
Same here, useless against aggro since you outpace them (at least warrior and zoo, haven't met other aggro decks yet, but with defenders and belcher there's not much they can do), useless against control since you should outpace them too before they start dealing damage to the face.
I don't know why enyone considers Jade Rogue slow? Maybe you're building too greedy decks. N'Zoth's my only 10 mana card, i've got two Belchers (i guess Arcanosmith or infested tauren are a good substitute in standard) and one Dark Iron Skulker which are five, everything else is 4 mana and less.
As for Shadowcaster, i think that won't fly unfortunately, it's just too expensive.
I think my biggest disappointement is Mistress of Mixtures. I didn't expected how odd this card is, ending up either in my hand or giving more benefits to my opponent than me.
Same here, useless against aggro since you outpace them (at least warrior and zoo, haven't met other aggro decks yet, but with defenders and belcher there's not much they can do), useless against control since you should outpace them too before they start dealing damage to the face.
I wouldn't completely discount the card. I agree with you on a lot of points and I've been really frustrated when playing it T1 or getting it in my hand when I'm ahead. The thing is, though, you really don't have to play it T1. You can save it for T3 to help activate Jade Shuriken easier. By T3, you've often taken more face damage (especially against aggro) and you don't need to waste another card trying to pull off your combo. I find that most midrange decks will start pushing face a bit before you can so I've used them defensively in the mid-game and it's helped a lot. I'm still debating dropping one for a Journey Below though.
It needs some more testing indeed. I dropped Jade Spirits to check out Journey Below, but not quite getting what i need, though i usually get Tomb Pillager which is fine.
I think my biggest disappointement is Mistress of Mixtures. I didn't expected how odd this card is, ending up either in my hand or giving more benefits to my opponent than me.
Same here, useless against aggro since you outpace them (at least warrior and zoo, haven't met other aggro decks yet, but with defenders and belcher there's not much they can do), useless against control since you should outpace them too before they start dealing damage to the face.
I don't know why enyone considers Jade Rogue slow? Maybe you're building too greedy decks. N'Zoth's my only 10 mana card, i've got two Belchers (i guess Arcanosmith or infested tauren are a good substitute in standard) and one Dark Iron Skulker which are five, everything else is 4 mana and less.
As for Shadowcaster, i think that won't fly unfortunately, it's just too expensive.
in standard I had the opposite experience.
You simply can't outpace pirate warrior (I had one drop me at 21 health at t2 with 3 minions on the board and fwa up...)
And there are no belchers to stabilize.
Hunters casually dropping 4/3s on t2 and etc
Compared to all that, it is slow. even compared to a normal mid shaman opening, without belchers and heals, you die by t6.
There are also tons of Murloc paladins and shamans where it shines.
Your 1/1-2/2-3/3 don't cut it vs any standard aggro deck. so using them for board control, then healing up, and starting to push your own damage with your 4/4+ seems the way to go.
Even had some very last minute stabilizes with raptoring my mistresses...
The first day slowly passes for EU, while the states have been testing new stuff for almost two days.
I still haven't found the time to play a lot of games, but i had more than a few games against Zoo, my former worst matchup, and Jade tools proved more than valuable against them (together with the mini buccaneer and Defenders of Argus). What i really like about golems is that they are actually quite adaptive, their size follows the flow of the game nicely if you get a good curve, and Rogue's good at it. I haven't tried out the Jade Spirit yet, it seems like a waste of tempo compared to Shurikens and Swarmer/Raptor combo, and i don't think it pays off to have Shadowstep in the deck for them.
Also, i haven't opened Aya yet (i miss about 200 dust for her), i think she's great for longer games to keep the steady flow of bigger and bigger golems. If that's not enough, i believe N'Zoth is a great game closer too, since you'll get four more enormous golems if your swarmers and Aya died during the game.
Shadowcasting Aya seems like an auto-concede if you have the board control.
All that said, i kinda get it why Rogue didn't receive their third Jade Golem card, they would probably stomp everything in their way.
What are your experiences, fellow Rogue players?
Jade is fun, but way to slow. My Beast Hunter decks kills them super fast while also buffing up it's minions.
It's been so much fun. I played Golems with Druid and the deck sucked so much that I almost regretted crafting Aya. I hated it not because it was not good (which it wasn't tbh), but because of how boring it was. Druid just doesn't have a lot of options, and most of the time the play was just obvious. With Rogue though, it was a bit different and I enjoyed making a Deathrattle-Jade deck. It works against Aggro a lot better than the Druid counterpart. Still trying to find the right mix of cards though. So far my favorite deck --- funny enough. Doubted the archetype since Day 1. :P
I haven't played it because it's so fucking ridiculously anti-control that I'd just feel bad for whoever doesn't main aggro ("midrange"). That said, it's incredibly good at what it does. Too good.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/688538-beast-secrets-lol-jade-meta
Loves the Jaders
Stay thirsty my friends
Pretty badly, whenever i face a normal (not the miracle version but the one that just runs all cards) Jade druid i feel he does everything better than me, Ramped Behemoth, ramped golems, he summons golems unconditionally with no need for weird exact two precise cards shenanigans like shadowstep+spirit (yes i tried it despite telling everyone it wouldn't work and i was correct) or raptor+swarmer and eventually he outgrows my golems and protects his own golems with Ancient of War.
on the other hand Lotus Agents are amazing, i didn't expect them to be that good but i guess i ate my piece of humble pie.
Jade Rogue is terrible. Loses to aggro, loses to slow decks, not even that good against everything else.
Too slow, as expected..
HE TRAAAAAADES!
50/50 with Jade Druid, I almost always lose against everything with Jade Rogue and...
Having super duper fun with Evolve Jade Shaman.
Remember playing Control Shaman with Reincarnate shenanigans? No? It was fun, here's a refresher!
Jade Control Shaman has been doing pretty well for me, but I don't play very competitively though so I'm not sure if it's a very good deck.
Positive winrate so far with Jade Miracle Druid, and I find it fun to play. Has some trouble with the very fast decks that are out there, though.
I got like a 60% winrate with my Jade Rogue, although I haven't done much climbing, too busy testing out Miracle with Red Wyrm and doing actual productive things in life.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Jade decks are awful, I'm 17-1 vs Jade decks with Renolock and if you can't consistently beat a control deck what is the point of the archetype? Jade Shaman might work come rotation or nerfs just because you're playing the tempo game with them.
I've had really good success with my jade rogue (probably around 65-75% win rate). I have all the jade cards in with raptors, shadowcasters, n'zoth and mistress. I've beaten jade druid the two times I played it though the second time we both got pretty dream combos/hands the whole way through and I'm not sure I would've won if I wasn't able to Shadowstep my N'Zoth. I like how it has tons of answers for early game and late game minions, and ramps up its golems pretty quickly. The downsides I would say are inconsistent healing (I think I've only played one aggro warrior) and easily running out of cards (even with two drakes, thalnos, two fans).
Tried 3 versions so far.
(All lacking Aya but I discover it sometimes)
Tempo/early version failed vs everything, Golems are too slow for this kind of gameplay.
Normal nzoth. I had several issues with empty hand.
Miracle Nzoth. Cutting out gimmicks like Brann and shadowsteps and using just the core jade and the core miracle cards is what I'm running down.
The last version is working ok in the lower ranks. I feel the card that's pulling the deck ahead is Mistress of Mixtures.
Jade druid destroys me so far, although they had pretty crazy hands so far (p.e. thistle out of agents gave one opponent 3ple jade behemoths...)
Fairing pretty well vs mid decks like Dragon priest, buff paladin/warrior. Aggro I'm pretty even, zoo destroys me. 1:1 vs mid shaman!
The deck is maybe t3 from what I can tell.
I'm happy xaril finally pulls his weight, all 5 toxins are pretty good (stealth for auctioneer , damage for removal, buff for stealthed, draw for draw, Shadowstep for spirits/aya/zoth)
I'm pretty sad that after I'll craft Aya I don't think I'll be able to fit VC anymore.
It needs some more testing indeed. I dropped Jade Spirits to check out Journey Below, but not quite getting what i need, though i usually get Tomb Pillager which is fine.