Of course I'm referring to the new mage card Open the Waygate where the quest as created a new type of freeze mage that seems to be stronger than ever due to the fact you are getting infinite value when you get all the pieces of Exodia (ha HA references) and just go ham. And guess what you can't do shit unless you tech in Dirty Rat which not everyone does. The problem is that the opponent can't do anything to the board when for apprentices are on the board because you just time warp and then play Antonidas for infinite fireballs.
I imagine the deck will get nerfed in some way in the future because the Hearthstone devs have stated before that they don't like OTK where you can't interact. We've seen nerfs to cards like Force of Nature in Midrange Druid and Charge in OTK Worgen warrior because you couldn't do much or anything to stop it.
Now i'm not hating on the deck, in fact I love Open the Waygate because it's such a cool card. I am just saying don't get too comfortable with this deck in the long run because I "THINK" it will get nerfed in the future.
They didn't learn from shadowverse, this x-pact is so similar to this game it's pathetic.
Shadowverse literally took the framework of Hearthstone and ran with it (albeit with interesting tweaks) and you think it's pathetic that Hearthstone used similar card design to forestcraft and the on a certain turn do this effects? Elementals play differently from forest craft (which actually plays more similarly to classic Rogue) and the added attack cards are on taunts and have higher attack on the opponent's turn which make for interesting design that to my limited knowledge of Shadowverse hasn't been touched on. This doesn't even beginning to touch on the similarities between both games and MTG which (because of the long and storied history of the game) likely has touched on most of the mechanics of both games at some point.
Ok, now to the OP. I understand your frustration. I really honestly do. However, it is incredibly difficult to consistently make the version of the deck in question function against most proactive decks. As such it falls into a similar category as the old freeze mage: counter deck. The giants version is much more consistent in my time with the deck and it can be much more easily be interacted with via taunts.
Now, I think you may be right in thinking that it could still be nerfed as worgen warrior (a deck that really wasn't prevalent hardly ever) also got nerfed for similar reasons.
Te problem with Mage and Rogue complaints isn't that those decks/quests are op ... winrate is somewhere near 50%.
Problem is, that when you lose with those decks it's epic fail - you're smashed, and have a feeling that there were nothing to stop it ... and then ... you post on hearthpwn about nerfs. From the other side - when you win vs those archetypes you even don't notice it, because it was so easy and fast (mostly). You just queue next match.
It's more psychological aspect, then "OPness" of "infinite FB" or almighty 5/5s :)
I think this is an innate problem with the counter-less system of Hearthstone and similar games. While non-interactive combo decks exist in Yu-Gi-Oh , MTG and the like, one can use counter cards or discard mechanics to stop them in their tracks. This simply isn't possible in the current form of Hearthstone, other than using RNG-based cards like Dirty Rat or delaying tactics like Loatheb or Ice Block.
I think the same applies to things like the Rogue Quest deck or Heavenly Aegis in Shadowverse: the problem is not that they are too powerful, but that there is no way to counter or interact with them once they get going, and that isn't very fun.
While I love combo decks (my favorite decks in Hearthstone before the rotation were Malygos Shaman and OTK Priest, and currently Quest Mage, and I almost exclusively play Dimension Shift Runecraft and Ad Nauseam in Shadowverse and MTG respectively), I do think Blizzad has to make some way to effectively interact with such decks for the game to stay healthy.
Anyone who thinks that Blizzard didn't know that OTK decks will arise from Open the Waygate ipretty naive. And although they might not like OTK decks, they are providing the community with some on purpose because there are People who like them. And I don't think they will nerf this deck, unless someone figures out a composition that will be oppressive to the meta. What they don't want in the game are decks like old Patron warrior, Raging worgen OTK , Combo druid , which Combo in a very efficient and consistent way.
Btw. Dirty rat is not the only Counter to Exodia mage, although the only viable one card counter. But if you ever play in a meta infested with Exodia mage or even Arcan Giant OTK, Eater of Secrets will hit them hard. And maybe Eye for an Eye as well (discovered from Ivory Knight, it won me games against wild freeze mages). And generally, fast decks Counter Exodia mage quite good.
The guy has beaten me with Open The Waygate mage deck while I was Jade Druid with 50 health and full board..while he had no board and 1 health. I still think that deck is balanced because he had to draw his whole deck, and I agree with previous posts that when you win against them you don't even notice because it's usually very easy, but I played really heavy jade druid. I wasn't even mad. I added him because I've never been killed like that. Caverns Below is waaaay more broken than mage quest and has to be nerfed ASAP!
I don't know why they let such stuff pass through but a solution might be retire Antonidas to Hall of Fame. Mechanisms like this, Anyfin can Happen, Quest Rogut, Warlock double Leeroy are frustrating because you can't interact.
Honestly I think a lot fewer people would complain about Quest Mage if Ice Block got rotated.
Nothing worse than having someone dead to rights and suddenly nothing you do works. There either needs to be more secret removal cards or Ice Block needs to become the first Legendary Secret.
Yeah so when does this OP OTK with Antonidas and 4 Sorcerer's Apprentice get nerfed??
Don't see how any deck can be built without Eater of Secrets or Dirty Rat to counter it. Literally, these have to go in every deck. Otherwise, you're just hoping they dont draw the combo every game.
I have to agree with both sides of this argument, with a slight view change though. Otk (ttk) decks, or any other style of combo deck needs to be watched hard by the devs, if it becomes too easy to achieve then adjustments need to be made. And that determination isn't based on how many people play or complain, but by watching the ladder and tourney matches.
Any deck that takes 2 or more cards and makes them work together to achieve a specific goal is a combo deck. So it's not always a win condition to make a combo deck.
It isn't fun being beaten by combo decks, it does seem one sided and feels like there is nothing to be done about it. But that's true if you don't have a counter to the combo when its needed, or the opponent has an epic opening hand. But the feeling of pulling off the combo is amazing, extreme success and/or luck.
Now I do have to complain a little, I do believe questrogue is too easy to steamroll with, and if you don't have the counter in your opening hand or turn 2 you lose. But the same RNG pits that deck against the draw so it does lose as well, it's not a sure fire win.
TL;DR - Hearthstone devs and players need to keep aware of and fix broken: OTK, highly efficient combo cards and quests with too easy of completion requirements. Otherwise, take the loss and start a new match.
It's not OP. Does it suck when you lose against it sure. But it loses SO easily. Aggro beats it fairly easy. Taunt Warrior pulls out sorcs or antonidas, you just don't pull the correct cards at times (cards you need for combo are at the very bottom of deck....etc etc.
Well, Blizzard saw how people bought Packs over Packs just to get all the Epics and Legendaries you need for a Freeze Mage, but at some point no one needed these Cards anymore, because they had them, still Freeze Mage was popular, without any Income for Blizzard, so rotate a significant card out of the old Freeze Mage, make a new stronger Freeze Mage with new necessary Epics and Lengedaries and voila, people need to buy or make the new Cards.
I think the Mage and Rogue Spell need to lose the Spell Tag, so that neither of these "Heroes" can lower the cost with Apprentice or Prep. Mage could still use the Giants and Alex Combo, but people would know what is coming, when Alex comes down and Rogue couldn't Prep the Quest on the same turn they get it.
Freeze mage hasn't been particularly popular so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Not nearly as popular as Control Warrior and things like that. It usually seems to sit mid tier 2 to high tier 3.
On topic The simple fix to this is make Time Warp unaffected by Sorcerer's Apprentice which is the crux of how this combo works. It's obnoxious at best though. Punishes certain play styles, not so much others. Pretty much destroys my elemental mage deck which is annoying but whatevs.
The problem is that the opponent can't do anything to the board when for apprentices are on the board because you just time warp and then play Antonidas for infinite fireballs.
Played hunter a few days ago against a mage. I timed it perfectly, thought he had the full combo after my turn so i played Swamp King Dred 3x Sorcerer's Apprentice died that game and the mage had to concede :)
You didn't time it perfectly, you played an incompetent player who didn't bother to check what you played. While the deck annoys me I'm not calling for any sort of nerf, however playing devil's advocate your particular argument isn't a counter to this deck nor is it a reason this deck isn't broken, just thought I'd point that out. Dirty rat is a good play if you think they have pieces. Swamp King Dread not so much, you just got really lucky
I think this is an innate problem with the counter-less system of Hearthstone and similar games. While non-interactive combo decks exist in Yu-Gi-Oh , MTG and the like, one can use counter cards or discard mechanics to stop them in their tracks. This simply isn't possible in the current form of Hearthstone, other than using RNG-based cards like Dirty Rat or delaying tactics like Loatheb or Ice Block.
I think the same applies to things like the Rogue Quest deck or Heavenly Aegis in Shadowverse: the problem is not that they are too powerful, but that there is no way to counter or interact with them once they get going, and that isn't very fun.
While I love combo decks (my favorite decks in Hearthstone before the rotation were Malygos Shaman and OTK Priest, and currently Quest Mage, and I almost exclusively play Dimension Shift Runecraft and Ad Nauseam in Shadowverse and MTG respectively), I do think Blizzad has to make some way to effectively interact with such decks for the game to stay healthy.
I stopped playing Shadowverse for about 2 months and suddenly realize a new expansion came out, imagine my surprise when I get queued during my first match against a Heavenly Aegis Havencraft haha (midrange Swordcraft and Daria Runecraft player).
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Of course I'm referring to the new mage card Open the Waygate where the quest as created a new type of freeze mage that seems to be stronger than ever due to the fact you are getting infinite value when you get all the pieces of Exodia (ha HA references) and just go ham. And guess what you can't do shit unless you tech in Dirty Rat which not everyone does. The problem is that the opponent can't do anything to the board when for apprentices are on the board because you just time warp and then play Antonidas for infinite fireballs.
I imagine the deck will get nerfed in some way in the future because the Hearthstone devs have stated before that they don't like OTK where you can't interact. We've seen nerfs to cards like Force of Nature in Midrange Druid and Charge in OTK Worgen warrior because you couldn't do much or anything to stop it.
Now i'm not hating on the deck, in fact I love Open the Waygate because it's such a cool card. I am just saying don't get too comfortable with this deck in the long run because I "THINK" it will get nerfed in the future.
They didn't learn from shadowverse, this x-pact is so similar to this game it's pathetic.
Te problem with Mage and Rogue complaints isn't that those decks/quests are op ... winrate is somewhere near 50%.
Problem is, that when you lose with those decks it's epic fail - you're smashed, and have a feeling that there were nothing to stop it ... and then ... you post on hearthpwn about nerfs.
From the other side - when you win vs those archetypes you even don't notice it, because it was so easy and fast (mostly). You just queue next match.
It's more psychological aspect, then "OPness" of "infinite FB" or almighty 5/5s :)
I think this is an innate problem with the counter-less system of Hearthstone and similar games. While non-interactive combo decks exist in Yu-Gi-Oh , MTG and the like, one can use counter cards or discard mechanics to stop them in their tracks. This simply isn't possible in the current form of Hearthstone, other than using RNG-based cards like Dirty Rat or delaying tactics like Loatheb or Ice Block.
I think the same applies to things like the Rogue Quest deck or Heavenly Aegis in Shadowverse: the problem is not that they are too powerful, but that there is no way to counter or interact with them once they get going, and that isn't very fun.
While I love combo decks (my favorite decks in Hearthstone before the rotation were Malygos Shaman and OTK Priest, and currently Quest Mage, and I almost exclusively play Dimension Shift Runecraft and Ad Nauseam in Shadowverse and MTG respectively), I do think Blizzad has to make some way to effectively interact with such decks for the game to stay healthy.
The problem with OTK decks are that while a lot of people enjoy playing it, very few enjoy playing against it.
what problem?it cant win anything.
Acording to VS it has 0,35 against taunt .....0,39 against quest rogue ......0,19 vs mid hunter ......0,2 vs pirate warrior ......0,3 vs token druid
Anyone who thinks that Blizzard didn't know that OTK decks will arise from Open the Waygate ipretty naive. And although they might not like OTK decks, they are providing the community with some on purpose because there are People who like them. And I don't think they will nerf this deck, unless someone figures out a composition that will be oppressive to the meta. What they don't want in the game are decks like old Patron warrior, Raging worgen OTK , Combo druid , which Combo in a very efficient and consistent way.
Btw. Dirty rat is not the only Counter to Exodia mage, although the only viable one card counter. But if you ever play in a meta infested with Exodia mage or even Arcan Giant OTK, Eater of Secrets will hit them hard. And maybe Eye for an Eye as well (discovered from Ivory Knight, it won me games against wild freeze mages). And generally, fast decks Counter Exodia mage quite good.
The guy has beaten me with Open The Waygate mage deck while I was Jade Druid with 50 health and full board..while he had no board and 1 health. I still think that deck is balanced because he had to draw his whole deck, and I agree with previous posts that when you win against them you don't even notice because it's usually very easy, but I played really heavy jade druid. I wasn't even mad. I added him because I've never been killed like that. Caverns Below is waaaay more broken than mage quest and has to be nerfed ASAP!
I don't know why they let such stuff pass through but a solution might be retire Antonidas to Hall of Fame. Mechanisms like this, Anyfin can Happen, Quest Rogut, Warlock double Leeroy are frustrating because you can't interact.
Timewarp: how to make your losing turn last twice as long. Yay design.
Man just tech in dirty rats, is it so hard?
Someone who is salty as fuck and just can't think of a better excuse because they are an idiot.
Honestly I think a lot fewer people would complain about Quest Mage if Ice Block got rotated.
Nothing worse than having someone dead to rights and suddenly nothing you do works. There either needs to be more secret removal cards or Ice Block needs to become the first Legendary Secret.
Yeah so when does this OP OTK with Antonidas and 4 Sorcerer's Apprentice get nerfed??
Don't see how any deck can be built without Eater of Secrets or Dirty Rat to counter it. Literally, these have to go in every deck. Otherwise, you're just hoping they dont draw the combo every game.
Pretty lame
I have to agree with both sides of this argument, with a slight view change though. Otk (ttk) decks, or any other style of combo deck needs to be watched hard by the devs, if it becomes too easy to achieve then adjustments need to be made. And that determination isn't based on how many people play or complain, but by watching the ladder and tourney matches.
Any deck that takes 2 or more cards and makes them work together to achieve a specific goal is a combo deck. So it's not always a win condition to make a combo deck.
It isn't fun being beaten by combo decks, it does seem one sided and feels like there is nothing to be done about it. But that's true if you don't have a counter to the combo when its needed, or the opponent has an epic opening hand. But the feeling of pulling off the combo is amazing, extreme success and/or luck.
Now I do have to complain a little, I do believe questrogue is too easy to steamroll with, and if you don't have the counter in your opening hand or turn 2 you lose. But the same RNG pits that deck against the draw so it does lose as well, it's not a sure fire win.
TL;DR - Hearthstone devs and players need to keep aware of and fix broken: OTK, highly efficient combo cards and quests with too easy of completion requirements. Otherwise, take the loss and start a new match.
Cute, ineffective, but cute.
It's not OP. Does it suck when you lose against it sure. But it loses SO easily. Aggro beats it fairly easy. Taunt Warrior pulls out sorcs or antonidas, you just don't pull the correct cards at times (cards you need for combo are at the very bottom of deck....etc etc.
On topic
The simple fix to this is make Time Warp unaffected by Sorcerer's Apprentice which is the crux of how this combo works. It's obnoxious at best though. Punishes certain play styles, not so much others. Pretty much destroys my elemental mage deck which is annoying but whatevs.