I too am not that hyped on card.. Priest has access to a lot of removal already and it competes slot with Light bombs.. I can see entomb useful against big deathrattle minions like Sylvanas and Highmanes still a bit slow and wonky for me..
I will definitely be running at least one copy on my dragon priest and control, midrange and midrange secret paladin is a tough nut to crack with Dr.6 and Dr.Boom already depleting my removals, a shadow word death just isn't going to cut it for a Tirion as his ashbringer is highly punishing in itself, I'll gladly dump 10 mana to remove Tirion along with his deathrattle, and with 6 mana I get to remove him just the way I wanted and maybe later play it for myself? That is sheer value right there.
A card that greatly enhances control and midrange matchup is going to outweigh the slight decrease against aggro (if that even happens). Even if the card is a 6 mana used on a 6 mana card, the enemy played his minion for nothing, while I get to keep his card for later on, if it removes their big threats especially the sticky ones, I'll be one happy person. Entomb just allows a different style of play in itself, and as any cards goes, play it only when it is most necessary. It is like for deathwing, people are like "Omg, I lost my whole hand", but no one is forcing you to play deathwing at turn 10, it is more of a card that points the gun at the enemy and says "Now, can you counter this?", a card that can completely turn the tide, just one card can do all this! I see entomb in the same light, just in a more subtle way.
Peteravens05 and Exacerberus pointed out a lot of interest things, and some that I was asserting in my long post (p.1).
Also: — Did people really expect Blizzard to give Priest something as OP as Mysterious Opponent? — Best counter to Sylvanas that is a real pain in the ass.
— What is a good card ?
Two factors are relevant that are tempo and value.
Its tempo is pretty bad. Indeed. You are right about that. But when it comes to value it's incredible.
It is finally possible to play a priest with 28 on 30 cards allocated to tempo and 2 allocated to value… People forget that what we aim is winning.
How do we beat agro decks? By drying its resources and making more and more inefficient.
How do we beat late decks? By making a little bit of value on each play. Most of the midrange decks only play 2 or 3 finishers (e.g. Paladin: Dr. Boom, Tirion Fordring andYsera against Paladin). If you “steal” 2 of 3, you will strongly reverse the match-up because you will have at least 3 big minions (Dr. Boum + stolen cards) while they'll only have a single one.
Assassinate and Recycle aren't good so neither is entomb...
Yup I can't see Entomb making the cut. It'll see play for a few weeks and just die off. Too slow.
First of all Rouge and Druid aren't control classes. Secondly this is strictly better than Recycle and a lot better than assassinate. Third, Priest wants to play the slow game and is very capable of making it get there.
In a typical aggro match it won't be that great but Priest still has tons of ways to handle aggro no problem.
Where it'll shine is in the control/midrange match as OP stated. Priest was already pretty good against CW with double death and lightbomb, now it can straight up steal one of its threats. I also like the sound of stealing any of Druid's goodies (like a claw, which priest otherwise struggles to deal with). Stealing highmanes from midrange hunters is pretty nasty too. Maybe a sneed's if you ever get some weird non-meta deck.
tl;dr it's a fantastic card for priest, to call this a slow or bad card is showing ignorance of card game fundamentals
Agreed. All the contents about it being too slow don't really mean much. Yes, this card wouldn't be great in a dragon priest, but in control I can see it being very good. If you haven't put yourself in position to stabilize the board by turn 6 against aggro then you have very likely already lost. But to play this turn 6 against a midrange hunter and steal his Savannah Highmane you have gained a huge tempo advantage.
No one is saying Entomb it's the holy grail of Priests.
Yes, they are. Look at the name of this thread. You seem to have a more realistic view of the card than OP.
But the real question is this: are the cards that you're tech-ing against with Entomb cards that you would already be playing in your Priest deck? Would you be playing a second copy of Ysera already? If so, then Entombing it is a good play. If not, then it's not a great play. I'm not sure what the answer is.
Priests don't generally play a copy of Sylvanas. If adding a copy of Sylvanas to your deck is a good play, then why aren't people already playing a copy of it? Would Priests spend a slot on a Highmane if they had access to it? Probably not.
The more I look at the card, the more I think the shuffling effect is going to be a disadvantage usually. If you have to aim it at a Silver Hand Knight with a Blessing of Kings on it or something, then your deck is getting worse. I'm certainly not saying Entomb is a bad card, but if the real benefit is that it gets around deathrattle, then it's basically a Recycle that's much better in fatigue matchups. That's pretty good, but not "scary good," right?
No one is saying Entomb it's the holy grail of Priests.
Priests don't generally play a copy of Sylvanas. If adding a copy of Sylvanas to your deck is a good play, then why aren't people already playing a copy of it? Would Priests spend a slot on a Highmane if they had access to it? Probably not.
I make one proposal: only people actually knowing what they are talking about are allowed to write on the topic. Not to have to put Ysera and an other finisher in the deck to beat control deck is ultime, period.
dragon priest wont need it. combo/control priest needed a buff, blizzard delivered. fine story.
I'll be running one in my dragon priest. Entomb is -THE- answer to Sylvanas. Sylvanas is such a thorn for priest, we generally run no silence and a sylvanas ends up being 3 or 4 for 1 sometimes. A total game-changer. I can't tell you how many I've lost to Sylvanas, especially warriors running her. You leave her alive and they brawl next turn and it's just a disaster.
It'll also help with some other threats like Tirion and Highmane but I really can't stress just how many games Sylvanas lost me on my road to legend last month with Dragon Priest. I'll for sure be including one in my deck - I frankly don't even care if I pull the minion that I take later. That is just icing on the cake. What you're really paying for, over something like an Assasinate, is the "silence" before the removal. Druids play two great silences in 2x Keeper so removing buffed or deathrattle minions isn't nearly as important for them.
What people here doesn't see: yes, Entomb is expensive, but it removes EVERY minion, even the pesky 4 attack ones where we have big problems. If you play against an aggro-deck and you draw entomb it is NOT MORE of an dead card as Shadow Word: Death already is. Also there are enough devastating deathrattles even in aggro-decks where Entomb will shine. For example entomb an Voidcaller and the Warlock actually need to play the Doomguard or Mal'Ganis. Sylvanas is ready too and see plays enough.
Or as jferrante831 said: Savannah Highmane is simply pure value. Removing it without proccing it's deathrattle and a chance to draw it for yourself is huge. Also it helps in the fatigue-war: more cards in your deck, less chance to get fatigued.
Also don't forget it also helps in an highlander-deck where you want 2 big removals: 1 Entomb, 1 SW:D and 1 Reno Jackson. Together with Vol'jin you have so much hard removals that Priest Control will be really scary. Maybe even Mind Control is in a Deck with Reno and other heals possible (Justicar Trueheart)
Also you can't compare it to Assassinate. Hard Removals are bad simply because you trade 1vs.1. Entomb does not have this problem: you actually trade 0 cards, only 6 mana, since entomb will replace itself in your deck.
Kill enemy minion (3 mana if you compare with SWD) without trigering deathrattle (need a silence, and the nost used silence is owl 2 mana) and put a card (a good one almost all the time) in your deck (IDK how that cost ) for 6 mana, and if you are saying that is a dead card against aggro i remember you that SWD too
Priests don't generally play a copy of Sylvanas. If adding a copy of Sylvanas to your deck is a good play, then why aren't people already playing a copy of it? Would Priests spend a slot on a Highmane if they had access to it? Probably not.
[b]DRAGON Priest[/b] doesn't run Sylvanas, Control Priest does actually. And yes, if i could i would put Savannah Highmane in a deck without doubt, simply because it is such a great card. With Entomb i actually does it now. Priest is one of these classes, especially the control-priest variant that might get a new makeover with the new LoE-Cards. Getting away from Cabal-shenanigans (althrough they get buffed to with a -4 attack shrinkmeister) maybe to a more controllish-variant that beats other decks with tempo and value-trades. Let's wait and see.
We have Vol'jin that is very good but situational, as Cabal Shadow Priest is. We can't compare with the cards named before. We have Auchenai Soulpriest but it is not consistent enough by itself despite all the cool things it does. Confessor Paletress could have been a good card… But too random, you can't base your finish on that peculiar card. Therefore, most of the time, people run eitherYsera orRagnaros… Or are obliged to use combos and stuff. The new card for 4 mana is fine but it is something like a class-alternative toPiloted Shredder.
I've been experimenting with control priest and entomb is flat out a better mindcontrol. I agree, you can just build a full anti-aggro list and just run entomb. Also, it doesn't matter that the card conflicts with other cards because playing it on an emperor ad sylvs is fine. Also, you want to be casting entomb on dr.boom or tirion so it's more of a turn 7-9 play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
I'm not looking forward to playing against Priests with my control Warrior, it seems this card will swing the matchup from about a 50-50 to firmly in the Priest's favour.
I'm not looking forward to playing against Priests with my control Warrior, it seems this card will swing the matchup from about a 50-50 to firmly in the Priest's favour.
Lol. The matchup was never 50-50. Control warrior was heavily favored. The matchup chart listed CW as 70% winrate over control priest. However, Trump has said a good CW player will never lose to a control priest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
I'm not looking forward to playing against Priests with my control Warrior, it seems this card will swing the matchup from about a 50-50 to firmly in the Priest's favour.
Lol. The matchup was never 50-50. Control warrior was heavily favored. The matchup chart listed CW as 70% winrate over control priest. However, Trump has said a good CW player will never lose to a control priest.
people in this thread calling this "basically a cheaper mind control" or a "3:1" make me shake my head and sigh. This is a 1:1 unconditional removal spell, VERY similar to assassinate that sidesteps death rattle for 1 extra mana. i agree it could have a place in this control class despite recycle and assassinate not having been huge...but its still an "expensive" 1:1 removal card.
yes, it does put an extra card in your deck. but you still have to draw that card. There is NO card advantage here. you played a card to remove their card. the only time the "extra" card in your deck is any advantage is you go into fatigue one turn later. the fact its an opponents card Vs a card that started the game in your deck is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. the putting it in your deck is more like a mini gang up than mind control! i will admit it may be demoralizing to lose to your "own" sylvannas or tirion (2 cards this really is excellent removal for due to strong death rattles), but they may never draw it and even if they did, its not different than if they'd drawn their own copy of Sylvanas or some other bomb like Ysera that was in the deck already, it just ...feels bad man.
and the put it in your deck part is sometimes a downside, if you have to remove a crappy card to not die that turn, or you use it to remove a small chump blocking taunt creature to push damage, then see that suboptimal creature show up soon as a draw before you closed the game out when you'd have preferred most any other card in your deck. or you remove something like an anima golem you really can't make use of yourself without the synergy cards to go with etc, so when you eventually draw it, its a wasted draw for that turn and a tempo hit...
A removal for priest without any condition, without having to combo it with hundreds of other cards. Trust me, I am very glad with this card. And for those who say that this card won't be played in dragon priest, I have to say they're totally wrong. Currently, I am playing with Mind Control in my dragon priest. I'd be very interested to try Entomb to lower my mana curve and to answer a threat such as sylvannas before turn 10.
I too am not that hyped on card.. Priest has access to a lot of removal already and it competes slot with Light bombs.. I can see entomb useful against big deathrattle minions like Sylvanas and Highmanes still a bit slow and wonky for me..
I will definitely be running at least one copy on my dragon priest and control, midrange and midrange secret paladin is a tough nut to crack with Dr.6 and Dr.Boom already depleting my removals, a shadow word death just isn't going to cut it for a Tirion as his ashbringer is highly punishing in itself, I'll gladly dump 10 mana to remove Tirion along with his deathrattle, and with 6 mana I get to remove him just the way I wanted and maybe later play it for myself? That is sheer value right there.
A card that greatly enhances control and midrange matchup is going to outweigh the slight decrease against aggro (if that even happens). Even if the card is a 6 mana used on a 6 mana card, the enemy played his minion for nothing, while I get to keep his card for later on, if it removes their big threats especially the sticky ones, I'll be one happy person. Entomb just allows a different style of play in itself, and as any cards goes, play it only when it is most necessary. It is like for deathwing, people are like "Omg, I lost my whole hand", but no one is forcing you to play deathwing at turn 10, it is more of a card that points the gun at the enemy and says "Now, can you counter this?", a card that can completely turn the tide, just one card can do all this! I see entomb in the same light, just in a more subtle way.
Peteravens05 and Exacerberus pointed out a lot of interest things, and some that I was asserting in my long post (p.1).
Also:
— Did people really expect Blizzard to give Priest something as OP as Mysterious Opponent?
— Best counter to Sylvanas that is a real pain in the ass.
— What is a good card ?
Two factors are relevant that are tempo and value.
Its tempo is pretty bad. Indeed. You are right about that.
But when it comes to value it's incredible.
It is finally possible to play a priest with 28 on 30 cards allocated to tempo and 2 allocated to value…
People forget that what we aim is winning.
How do we beat agro decks? By drying its resources and making more and more inefficient.
How do we beat late decks? By making a little bit of value on each play. Most of the midrange decks only play 2 or 3 finishers (e.g. Paladin: Dr. Boom, Tirion Fordring andYsera against Paladin). If you “steal” 2 of 3, you will strongly reverse the match-up because you will have at least 3 big minions (Dr. Boum + stolen cards) while they'll only have a single one.
Yes, they are. Look at the name of this thread. You seem to have a more realistic view of the card than OP.
But the real question is this: are the cards that you're tech-ing against with Entomb cards that you would already be playing in your Priest deck? Would you be playing a second copy of Ysera already? If so, then Entombing it is a good play. If not, then it's not a great play. I'm not sure what the answer is.
Priests don't generally play a copy of Sylvanas. If adding a copy of Sylvanas to your deck is a good play, then why aren't people already playing a copy of it? Would Priests spend a slot on a Highmane if they had access to it? Probably not.
The more I look at the card, the more I think the shuffling effect is going to be a disadvantage usually. If you have to aim it at a Silver Hand Knight with a Blessing of Kings on it or something, then your deck is getting worse. I'm certainly not saying Entomb is a bad card, but if the real benefit is that it gets around deathrattle, then it's basically a Recycle that's much better in fatigue matchups. That's pretty good, but not "scary good," right?
Not to have to put Ysera and an other finisher in the deck to beat control deck is ultime, period.
Maybe. But still quite slow.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
What people here doesn't see: yes, Entomb is expensive, but it removes EVERY minion, even the pesky 4 attack ones where we have big problems. If you play against an aggro-deck and you draw entomb it is NOT MORE of an dead card as Shadow Word: Death already is. Also there are enough devastating deathrattles even in aggro-decks where Entomb will shine. For example entomb an Voidcaller and the Warlock actually need to play the Doomguard or Mal'Ganis. Sylvanas is ready too and see plays enough.
Or as jferrante831 said: Savannah Highmane is simply pure value. Removing it without proccing it's deathrattle and a chance to draw it for yourself is huge. Also it helps in the fatigue-war: more cards in your deck, less chance to get fatigued.
Also don't forget it also helps in an highlander-deck where you want 2 big removals: 1 Entomb, 1 SW:D and 1 Reno Jackson. Together with Vol'jin you have so much hard removals that Priest Control will be really scary. Maybe even Mind Control is in a Deck with Reno and other heals possible (Justicar Trueheart)
Also you can't compare it to Assassinate. Hard Removals are bad simply because you trade 1vs.1. Entomb does not have this problem: you actually trade 0 cards, only 6 mana, since entomb will replace itself in your deck.
Lets see
For 6 mana your doing
Kill enemy minion (3 mana if you compare with SWD) without trigering deathrattle (need a silence, and the nost used silence is owl 2 mana) and put a card (a good one almost all the time) in your deck (IDK how that cost ) for 6 mana, and if you are saying that is a dead card against aggro i remember you that SWD too
People focus too much on if it would be a benefit to have in your deck, and seem to forget you are removing the threat at the same time.
A clean removal is the point to remember. The fact that is shuffles into your deck is a super bonus.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
It is funny to see people talking about Priest like a class among the others.
That is simply not the way to think clearly about it. Priest doesn't have a lot of things other classes have.
Around t6-7, we do not have Shieldmaiden, Savannah Highmane, Trade Prince Gallywix (trust me, has it been a Priest card it would have been played — a lot), Mysterious Challenger, Archmage Antonidas, Ancient of Lore/Ancient of War…
We have Vol'jin that is very good but situational, as Cabal Shadow Priest is. We can't compare with the cards named before. We have Auchenai Soulpriest but it is not consistent enough by itself despite all the cool things it does.
Confessor Paletress could have been a good card… But too random, you can't base your finish on that peculiar card. Therefore, most of the time, people run eitherYsera orRagnaros… Or are obliged to use combos and stuff. The new card for 4 mana is fine but it is something like a class-alternative toPiloted Shredder.
I've been experimenting with control priest and entomb is flat out a better mindcontrol. I agree, you can just build a full anti-aggro list and just run entomb. Also, it doesn't matter that the card conflicts with other cards because playing it on an emperor ad sylvs is fine. Also, you want to be casting entomb on dr.boom or tirion so it's more of a turn 7-9 play.
My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
$$$ spent on this game: 0
Check out my card collection: http://www.hearthpwn.com/members/MCFUser175154/collection
I'm not looking forward to playing against Priests with my control Warrior, it seems this card will swing the matchup from about a 50-50 to firmly in the Priest's favour.
My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
$$$ spent on this game: 0
Check out my card collection: http://www.hearthpwn.com/members/MCFUser175154/collection
people in this thread calling this "basically a cheaper mind control" or a "3:1" make me shake my head and sigh. This is a 1:1 unconditional removal spell, VERY similar to assassinate that sidesteps death rattle for 1 extra mana. i agree it could have a place in this control class despite recycle and assassinate not having been huge...but its still an "expensive" 1:1 removal card.
yes, it does put an extra card in your deck. but you still have to draw that card. There is NO card advantage here. you played a card to remove their card. the only time the "extra" card in your deck is any advantage is you go into fatigue one turn later. the fact its an opponents card Vs a card that started the game in your deck is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. the putting it in your deck is more like a mini gang up than mind control! i will admit it may be demoralizing to lose to your "own" sylvannas or tirion (2 cards this really is excellent removal for due to strong death rattles), but they may never draw it and even if they did, its not different than if they'd drawn their own copy of Sylvanas or some other bomb like Ysera that was in the deck already, it just ...feels bad man.
and the put it in your deck part is sometimes a downside, if you have to remove a crappy card to not die that turn, or you use it to remove a small chump blocking taunt creature to push damage, then see that suboptimal creature show up soon as a draw before you closed the game out when you'd have preferred most any other card in your deck. or you remove something like an anima golem you really can't make use of yourself without the synergy cards to go with etc, so when you eventually draw it, its a wasted draw for that turn and a tempo hit...
A removal for priest without any condition, without having to combo it with hundreds of other cards. Trust me, I am very glad with this card. And for those who say that this card won't be played in dragon priest, I have to say they're totally wrong. Currently, I am playing with Mind Control in my dragon priest. I'd be very interested to try Entomb to lower my mana curve and to answer a threat such as sylvannas before turn 10.
Not all who wander are lost.
Nope. /thread