BLIZZARD! Bring back the old quest rogue, just make the quest reward a minion or something you cannot prep out, I wanna counter hard the BrokeBack droods!
I don't want to start a spicy discussion, but I would like to express my opinion about QR.
And, although many people hate it (including myself), I would like to see it again unnerfed. Why? If the two boars (patches and the original one) and prep are going to leave standard in 7 months, then we won't witness those cheesy turns we all hate, where we are being overrun by a huge board or OTK-ed. It will become slower in a healthy way and thus the deck will become fair. I see reasons for something to be nerfed, when it gets out of hand. Since in standard it will become weaker, why not make some players happy, when they can play their favourite deck again.
I don't want to start a spicy discussion, but I would like to express my opinion about QR.
And, although many people hate it (including myself), I would like to see it again unnerfed. Why? If the two boars (patches and the original one) and prep are going to leave standard in 7 months, then we won't witness those cheesy turns we all hate, where we are being overrun by a huge board or OTK-ed. It will become slower in a healthy way and thus the deck will become fair. I see reasons for something to be nerfed, when it gets out of hand. Since in standard it will become weaker, why not make some players happy, when they can play their favourite deck again.
Patches rotating, fine boar rotation fine. Prep would be king of sad as it is part of the rogue identity.
Now if want we really want to avoid is prep the quest reward cheeze then we could just make the reward a 5 mana 5/5 taunt or something like that. If you can't play the prep the quest paying the full mana cost is enough tempo loss to allow most deck to have a fair chance (especially if we don't have chargers)
Prep would be king of sad as it is part of the rogue identity.
I'm not the one who came up with this suggestion. As far as I know, Mike Donais shared this opinion in a recent interview. Is it damaging a big part of the rogue identity in standard - yes. Warlock lost PO and where was that class in Un'goro (partly due to bad cards, but zoo was going to thrive with that spell). And since this change is going to happen in 8 months from now, I thought, that at that time the rogue quest could be unnerfed.
About the rest of the post: well, I think people have discussed it, that this could be a good change, but weak to dirty rat. I don't remember all those QR discussion threads.
Inb4 rogue players are also losing the bouncer (though there might be a chance to get another one).
Prep would be king of sad as it is part of the rogue identity.
I'm not the one who came up with this suggestion. As far as I know, Mike Donais shared this opinion in a recent interview. Is it damaging a big part of the rogue identity in standard - yes. Warlock lost PO and where was that class in Un'goro (partly due to bad cards, but zoo was going to thrive with that spell). And since this change is going to happen in 8 months from now, I thought, that at that time the rogue quest could be unnerfed.
About the rest of the post: well, I think people have discussed it, that this could be a good change, but weak to dirty rat. I don't remember all those QR discussion threads.
Inb4 rogue players are also losing the bouncer (though there might be a chance to get another one).
Now that you speak about it, I think I remember about that interview. the question was about which cards were limiting card design mechanic and Mike told Boars/ prep/ innerv / Malygos.
Weak to dirty rat, like the priest /shaman/paladin/druid/hunter quest while spell rewards are weak to counter spell. From the top of my mind the only quest reward which has no counter blocking it from taking effect is the warrior reward, you can destroy the weapon but the hero power stays. (there is the new cards which block hero power usage but too easy to remove)
Losing the bouncer is not catastrophic, with the DK we already have a new way to play minion with the some name and with DK and Shadow caster we even have infinite 5/5
We will see later. The problem is now that the deck is too weak in it current form, it need to change to a more midrange form where answer are easier to come by for the opponent.
I don't think we will ever see a un-nerf happen or a cards buff. We may have more supporting cards for the archetype which seems to be Blizzard way of doing things
I just fought one at mid-level legend and lost horribly. To be fair, I was playing a kind of memey Jade Druid list but the fact still stands. Has anyone actually tried playing nerfed Quest rogue? It doesn't look so bad to me. I'd do some testing but I dusted my Caverns Below
I just fought one at mid-level legend and lost horribly. To be fair, I was playing a kind of memey Jade Druid list but the fact still stands. Has anyone actually tried playing nerfed Quest rogue? It doesn't look so bad to me. I'd do some testing but I dusted my Caverns Below
I'm playing this decklist, it's great, Saronite Chain Gang is really a fine addition for prolonging life, i usually wrap things up by T8, that's quite fast.
With some luck, Pirate Warrior can be taken down too. I find 2 Shadowblades much better than Plague Scientist, so i'm actually thinking of replacing it with something else. When the big baddies come that need removal, sap or vanish usually to the deal if the quest is not already finished. Or i just keep freezing them. I'll try putting a Doomerang so i can recycle the Shadowblade, or maybe that lifesteal Murloc!
Problem with quest rogue was that it just wasn't fun to play against, not even when you were winning or had a chance.
Jade druid is at least fun to play against when you are winning or you have a chance, it's just too strong is all.
Do you prefer to play against many different decks with a few annyoing opponents (it was played in less than every 10th match) or do you want to play against the same 3 decks again and again?
I think that is what they call a "false dichotomy".
Quest Rogue wasn't nerfed because it was too powerful (its winrate was rather low although a bit higher than Exodia Mage) but because it warped the game so much that it was unfeasible to run slower decks with it around. with both Jade Druid AND Quest Rogue it was simply a poor idea to run a deck that has like 5% chance against those decks, and STILL could lose to aggro.
what you also suggest is reintroducing the rock<paper<scissors meta that we're thankfully slowly pulling out of, where various matchups are like 5% winner for the underdog. no, QR is fine as it is, and over time it might get enough cards to be viable with playing 5 copies. getting OTK'd by charging boars on turn 4-5 was not healthy for the game.
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''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
Problem with quest rogue was that it just wasn't fun to play against, not even when you were winning or had a chance.
Jade druid is at least fun to play against when you are winning or you have a chance, it's just too strong is all.
Do you prefer to play against many different decks with a few annyoing opponents (it was played in less than every 10th match) or do you want to play against the same 3 decks again and again?
I think that is what they call a "false dichotomy".
True^^
There's no guarantee that a lower winrate of jade druid would bring a diverse meta, maybe just the next powerhouse would take it's place. I opened this Thread to show that a nerf for Druid isn't the only option and how it could happen that team 5 didn't saw the potential from druid in KOFT (because they tested it against a stroung counter, which got nerfed afterwards).
The Statement it was more diverse is based and on the vicious syndicate reports. Of course there was a new short phase of experimantion after the nerf (and buff of jade elemental!) but it got solved very quickly and lead to a stale meta compared to the fluend one before nerf
Well, I do agree with your main sentiment.
I have actually worked with game design in an online project (though not a big one). And what you're suggesting is the best way to go about things, introduce mechanics or content that makes things even out. Like in our little project; Perhaps we made some class skill too powerful, so in the next update we'd introduce content synergized better with other skills. That is always preferable to actually going in and change something directly... because that a) annoys the player who is using that content b) Makes players uncertain and less excited about exploring new content c) Makes your players focus more on the outside of game than the inside d) Your efforts don't actually grow the game.
But at the same time, balance is a vital part of any game with a competitive element. And some times things just go to far, druid is now so strong that I think the only way to contain it is to either change it directly or introduce very large powercreep.
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BLIZZARD! Bring back the old quest rogue, just make the quest reward a minion or something you cannot prep out, I wanna counter hard the BrokeBack droods!
Nah, they should just fix jade druid.
Fuck cubelock
got wrecked by quest rouge the other day, its still ok against decks without 5 damage aoe
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─
I don't want to start a spicy discussion, but I would like to express my opinion about QR.
And, although many people hate it (including myself), I would like to see it again unnerfed. Why? If the two boars (patches and the original one) and prep are going to leave standard in 7 months, then we won't witness those cheesy turns we all hate, where we are being overrun by a huge board or OTK-ed. It will become slower in a healthy way and thus the deck will become fair. I see reasons for something to be nerfed, when it gets out of hand. Since in standard it will become weaker, why not make some players happy, when they can play their favourite deck again.
Inb4 rogue players are also losing the bouncer (though there might be a chance to get another one).
I just fought one at mid-level legend and lost horribly. To be fair, I was playing a kind of memey Jade Druid list but the fact still stands. Has anyone actually tried playing nerfed Quest rogue? It doesn't look so bad to me. I'd do some testing but I dusted my Caverns Below
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
I'm playing this decklist, it's great, Saronite Chain Gang is really a fine addition for prolonging life, i usually wrap things up by T8, that's quite fast.
With some luck, Pirate Warrior can be taken down too. I find 2 Shadowblades much better than Plague Scientist, so i'm actually thinking of replacing it with something else. When the big baddies come that need removal, sap or vanish usually to the deal if the quest is not already finished. Or i just keep freezing them. I'll try putting a Doomerang so i can recycle the Shadowblade, or maybe that lifesteal Murloc!
As i see it, now the main problem is having enough steam AFTER the Quest, since most of it is burned for the quest itself.
I mean, a board clear kills the whole strategy, since there is little room in the deck for swarming cards.
But what about Moroes or even Imp Master for a secondary win condition?
And at that point, Shadowcaster instead of shadowstep plays both the role of bouncer or just refiller, if needed.
Not that i expect this deck to be anywhere near T3 now, and that's why i dusted my quest. But i'd be glad to see it working smh.
I don't think you really need them with Valeera the Hollow since you can flood the board with copies.
Aye, but that can't happen before turn 10. And you are already in full Control domain (or Jade Druid).
I mean something like this:
Problem with quest rogue was that it just wasn't fun to play against, not even when you were winning or had a chance.
Jade druid is at least fun to play against when you are winning or you have a chance, it's just too strong is all.
sorry dude, but when the rogue quest was nerfed, i started seing more decks
e.g. jade elemental shaman, jade rogue, some other slower decks also started seing play
[edit] yes, i know, that jade spirit getting the elemental tag had something to do with it, but the deck struggled against turn 5/6/7 quest completion
yeah the statement that the meta was more diverse pre quest nerf is just false from my perspective.
Quest Rogue wasn't nerfed because it was too powerful (its winrate was rather low although a bit higher than Exodia Mage) but because it warped the game so much that it was unfeasible to run slower decks with it around. with both Jade Druid AND Quest Rogue it was simply a poor idea to run a deck that has like 5% chance against those decks, and STILL could lose to aggro.
what you also suggest is reintroducing the rock<paper<scissors meta that we're thankfully slowly pulling out of, where various matchups are like 5% winner for the underdog. no, QR is fine as it is, and over time it might get enough cards to be viable with playing 5 copies. getting OTK'd by charging boars on turn 4-5 was not healthy for the game.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~