I think all the 7+ atk crap should be mowed 1 tier down. Actually The Boogeymonster and Validated Doomsayer should move one tier up. What do you think?
Why? BGH got nerfed in tempo and as a result midrange decks will not run it. You will only see Big Game Hunter in control decks now.
I doubt you'll even see it in Control decks since they already have plenty of removal.
If you play with the simulator Yogg-Saron, Hope's End isn't actually all that bad. With around 8 spells he on average clears your opponent's side of the board and draws you a few cards, even if he himself dies in the process. It might be a question of what spell heavy decks need something that comes close to DOOM!, granted, but in any long control match your bound to play several and want late game support.
Hi, thanks for the input. I must say I don't want anything average for 10 mana. If you have anything "from ok to great 60% of the times" for 10 mana you lose 40% of your games. I've played around with the simulator but not enough to have good statistics on him. I'd like to find out the optimal number of spells because I think thats important. You don't want to play him near fatigue but you want him to consistently clear the board and maybe draw a few cards.
Having said that I do think he could be good. I just don't want to claim he's playable before I see statistics on him.
It's common for the board to be cleared and/or for you to draw a bunch of cards with Yogg-Saron once you've played 10 spells previously. I think how good Yogg is depends on how highly you rate those things at turn 10.
Updated, a few cards are missing. Has to be reviewed and discussed.
I think you are right about the new tier 0. If C'Thun works (it looks very promising) this card will be amazing.
I don't aggree with Malkorok in tier 1.. This legendary is probably even Tier4.. You can outright lose the game in a controll vs controll matchup if you get charged hammer and destroy your 4armor/turn hero power. A cursed blade is also super bad. Good early weapons like Fiery War Axe are debatable if they are good enough for it's mana cost.. So you really want to flip the coin and get a Gorehowl.. Way to high risk in my opinion for what you can gain..
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Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
Updated, a few cards are missing. Has to be reviewed and discussed.
I think you are right about the new tier 0. If C'Thun works (it looks very promising) this card will be amazing.
I don't aggree with Malkorok in tier 1.. This legendary is probably even Tier4.. You can outright lose the game in a controll vs controll matchup if you get charged hammer and destroy your 4armor/turn hero power. A cursed blade is also super bad. Good early weapons like Fiery War Axe are debatable if they are good enough for it's mana cost.. So you really want to flip the coin and get a Gorehowl.. Way to high risk in my opinion for what you can gain..
There's no way Malkorok is tier 4. The amount of bad weapons is so low, honestly, only the two you mentioned are bad and the rest is either neutral (1, 2 mana weapons) or just good (3+ mana weapons). It's not just Gorehowl, consider the amount of 4/2s, Arcanite Reaper, Gladiator's, Doomhammer and others. Charged Hammer's HP isn't bad either. The only problem is the synergy: there is near none, only Upgrade!
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I'm just another one of those. You know, those who do things. Things that need to be done by those that do these things in order to do those things that don't do these things themselves. Has the word 'things' lost meaning to you already?
Journey Below: Even if deathrattle/raptor rogue doesn't become a thing (unlikely), this is still great value as it generates a card using 1 mana. Most of the time you're bound to have at least one good option too, since deathrattles are quite strong. In Raptor Rogue it's just another cool deathrattle, in arena it's also a good pick.
Disciple of C'Thun: If you have enjoyed reach-y cards like Fire Elemental, you're gonna enjoy this card too. It's also fairly comparable to Argent Commander, except you can't buff it, but it takes no damage and can reach behind taunts. The 2 damage is just so strong and the buff makes it even more worth. Just looking at it valuewise is not the right way to look at this card.
Fiery Bat: Hunter loses their one drops: this is going to be an alright replacement. It also kindof resembles Leper Gnome, with the exception of the damage actually being more useful for midrange in most cases.
Primal Fusion: This will see play, or at least be tried out in Shaman, since it has potential. 2 totems is enough to reach value and because it's 1 mana it's easy to combo with your HP and your cards, possibly netting a nice trade. Of the cards I mentioned this one is indeed the most unreliable, but I think it has potential, especially since it buffs Health too, not just Attack like Blessing of Might. The art is also nice.
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I'm just another one of those. You know, those who do things. Things that need to be done by those that do these things in order to do those things that don't do these things themselves. Has the word 'things' lost meaning to you already?
Updated, a few cards are missing. Has to be reviewed and discussed.
I think you are right about the new tier 0. If C'Thun works (it looks very promising) this card will be amazing.
I don't aggree with Malkorok in tier 1.. This legendary is probably even Tier4.. You can outright lose the game in a controll vs controll matchup if you get charged hammer and destroy your 4armor/turn hero power. A cursed blade is also super bad. Good early weapons like Fiery War Axe are debatable if they are good enough for it's mana cost.. So you really want to flip the coin and get a Gorehowl.. Way to high risk in my opinion for what you can gain..
There's no way Malkorok is tier 4. The amount of bad weapons is so low, honestly, only the two you mentioned are bad and the rest is either neutral (1, 2 mana weapons) or just good (3+ mana weapons). It's not just Gorehowl, consider the amount of 4/2s, Arcanite Reaper, Gladiator's, Doomhammer and others. Charged Hammer's HP isn't bad either. The only problem is the synergy: there is near none, only Upgrade!
You are probably right that tier 4 isa bit to harsh. Let's look at it:
Of course you may value some of those cards differently but it should be roughly right. So you have about 35% of the time a good weapon with this legendary -> every third time you play it. -> 2/3 of the time you don't get enough value out of the card, compared to other high cost minions. In 1 of 10 games you even get a terrible weapon out of it.. So yeah.. Tier4 might have been harsh but this card still doesn't deserve a place in tier 1.
3/2 weapon is good enough, its a body and a weapon. 4/2 weapon is already really good.
A 3/2 weapon is not worth 2 mana but a bit more, and his body is worth less than 5 mana (I say this because you would never play a 5 mana 6/5 with no text) but more than 4. If we say his body is roughly 4,5 then Fiery War Axe should already more than make up for its cost because it doesn't cost you a card to get it. It just costs you mana.
That's 3 weapons which are also fine. Add the rest of them and you get 12 good weapons vs 6 bad weapons and 2 weapons that actually hurt your game plan.
That seems slightly above average. But if you factor in the weapon value then there are 6 weapons that seem to outweigh the bad weapons by a great deal. I'm not saying it will be great to run this in CW. I'm saying Warrior can play this card for great value given the right archetype, and that the right archetype isn't something questionable or far-fetched, but something that is very likely to happen.
3/2 weapon is good enough, its a body and a weapon. 4/2 weapon is already really good.
A 3/2 weapon is not worth 2 mana but a bit more, and his body is worth less than 5 mana (I say this because you would never play a 5 mana 6/5 with no text) but more than 4. If we say his body is roughly 4,5 then Fiery War Axe should already more than make up for its cost because it doesn't cost you a card to get it. It just costs you mana.
That's 3 weapons which are also fine. Add the rest of them and you get 12 good weapons vs 6 bad weapons and 2 weapons that actually hurt your game plan.
That seems slightly above average. But if you factor in the weapon value then there are 6 weapons that seem to outweigh the bad weapons by a great deal. I'm not saying it will be great to run this in CW. I'm saying Warrior can play this card for great value given the right archetype, and that the right archetype isn't something questionable or far-fetched, but something that is very likely to happen.
I am not saying that a card like Fiery War Axe doesn't pay for itself if you get it but I am saying that a Fiery War Axe out of Malkorok isn't good enough to justify the card in the 7 mana slot. The 7 mana slot isn't that filled anymore (Dr. Boom *cough*) but there are still other cards with good enough value (and without coin flip).
Of course the argument about a new archetype which could use Malkorok is totally viable. Maybe we will see a non- Grim Patron midrange warrior deck which can make great use out of this card + the new pirates but even in such a deck he will probably still be a replaceable card.
I think I have said everything which I can say about this card without testing it now ;) I hope your optimism about this card is right, since I love playing around with warrior cards (and I will try this one) but I still don't have a good feeling about the effectivness of this one.
Twisted Worgen is like a Wolfrider for 1 less. Aggressive decks could very easily run this especially seeing the distinct lack of good 2-drops post-Standard.
Bilefin Tidehunter, not sure if you saw the stream or not but if you did you would see how significant that taunt actually is. Huge against midgame threats and really annoying to deal with. Plus, ITS A MURLOC!
Zealous Initiate is an extremely threatening 1-drop, especially when those are in quite a shortage nowadays. Could likely see play in Zoo and some face decks.
Fiery Bat is a new immediate replacement to Leper Gnome. I wouldn't count it out. Plus its a beast.
Disciple of C'Thun is a lot like Argent Horserider. Argent Horserider is an extremely underhyped card. It's a lot better than it looks, even in decks that aren't that aggressive. Any time this kills a 2-drop its insane.
Darkshire Councilman, you need to play 1 minion for this to be average. Thats pretty easy. 2 minions and its really good. 3 and its insane. Not too hard to do that with Zoo. Especially with Forbidden Ritual.
I can't see how you can say Blood To Ichor is Tier One yet thrust poor N'Zoth's First Mate into the bottom of tier 2 when the latter is usually better than the former save for some specific situations. Especially with Bloodsail Cultist.
In a world where there are VERY FEW good 2-drops, Eternal Sentinel will see play.
I think that's not enough. Only worse vs smorc decks. And smorc decks will be slower.
Yogg'Saron is pretty good in Mage....
On a quest to capture every zone in Azeroth into Hearthstone cards! Elwynn Forest, Redridge Mountains, Stranglethorn Vale and Northern Barrens!
I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the massive card release tomorrow.
Leave suggestions after the stream if you like.
Thanks and see you tomorrow!
If you play with the simulator Yogg-Saron, Hope's End isn't actually all that bad. With around 8 spells he on average clears your opponent's side of the board and draws you a few cards, even if he himself dies in the process. It might be a question of what spell heavy decks need something that comes close to DOOM!, granted, but in any long control match your bound to play several and want late game support.
Hi, thanks for the input. I must say I don't want anything average for 10 mana. If you have anything "from ok to great 60% of the times" for 10 mana you lose 40% of your games. I've played around with the simulator but not enough to have good statistics on him. I'd like to find out the optimal number of spells because I think thats important. You don't want to play him near fatigue but you want him to consistently clear the board and maybe draw a few cards.
Having said that I do think he could be good. I just don't want to claim he's playable before I see statistics on him.
It's common for the board to be cleared and/or for you to draw a bunch of cards with Yogg-Saron once you've played 10 spells previously. I think how good Yogg is depends on how highly you rate those things at turn 10.
Updated, a few cards are missing. Has to be reviewed and discussed.
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
Disciple of C'thun is tier 1 material right there.
I'm just another one of those. You know, those who do things. Things that need to be done by those that do these things in order to do those things that don't do these things themselves. Has the word 'things' lost meaning to you already?
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
How is Forbidden Ritual a bad card? It's at the very least playable, potentially great. There's so much synergy in Zoo and possibly C'thunlock.
Other cards for me to disagree with:
I'm just another one of those. You know, those who do things. Things that need to be done by those that do these things in order to do those things that don't do these things themselves. Has the word 'things' lost meaning to you already?
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
neutral/not good enough: Light's Justice; Fiery War Axe; Argent Lance; Stormforged Axe; King's Defender; Perdition's Blade; Poisoned Blade; Eaglehorn Bow; Sword of Justice 53%
good: Arcanite Reaper; Assassin's Blade; Truesilver Champion 17,6%
Very good: Doomhammer;Gorehowl; Gladiator's Longbow 17,6%
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
You forgot to include Anomalus in your list and I would put Fandral Staghelm in a higher tier list than Malkorok that's for sure.
3/2 weapon is good enough, its a body and a weapon. 4/2 weapon is already really good.
A 3/2 weapon is not worth 2 mana but a bit more, and his body is worth less than 5 mana (I say this because you would never play a 5 mana 6/5 with no text) but more than 4. If we say his body is roughly 4,5 then Fiery War Axe should already more than make up for its cost because it doesn't cost you a card to get it. It just costs you mana.
That's 3 weapons which are also fine. Add the rest of them and you get 12 good weapons vs 6 bad weapons and 2 weapons that actually hurt your game plan.
That seems slightly above average. But if you factor in the weapon value then there are 6 weapons that seem to outweigh the bad weapons by a great deal. I'm not saying it will be great to run this in CW. I'm saying Warrior can play this card for great value given the right archetype, and that the right archetype isn't something questionable or far-fetched, but something that is very likely to happen.
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
Gonna try to keep these pretty brief and only mention my disagreements