We have now about dozends of Big Priest Rants, but where are the rants about Odd Rogue or Even Shaman? Both decks are Tier 1, both decks are dominating the meta, both decks have a much higher winrate than Big Priest, yet there are only complains about Big Priest, Big Priest and oh yes, Big Priest.
Don't misunderstand me, Big Priest (or rather Barnes) really needs a nerf and i can totally understand that people are angry about this deck, but why is nobody complaining about the decks that right now are totally dominating the meta? Why is even shaman, that have around 70% winrate on hsreplay not even mentioned, but instead it's always only Big Priest?
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf (Thing From Below and Vilespine Slayer above all: these two cards were always OP since their inception).
But they are not highroll, retarded, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need some simple mana nerf. Big Priest needs to be reduced to meme level, as much as old Kingsbane did.
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really retarded in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
The only reason I can think of is that so few people play Wild.
Far too many disgusting cards for Shaman are in the Even slot. They were borderline broken when they were released, and were obviously not balanced around a turn 1 1-mana heropower.
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really ******** in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
You have to consider more than winrates, which is just a superficial variable.
Again (i am not sure you read my first sentence), i am not against nerfing some cards in Even Shaman and Odd Rogue. I am not saying they are perfectly ok.
But they are not comparable to Big Priest. Rationally, you have to consider HOW Big Priest wins.
After some brief analysis, you will realise that Big Priest uses a meme-level mechanic (summon random copy from deck). Yet it is top tier. Rationally, you should understand something is wrong there (resurrection mechanic is broken, on top of god tier removals).
Most people aren't whining about Even Shaman and Odd Rogue because :
1. Because they are cheap aggro decks that mostly uses standard cards, so most people play them. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. It also happens that Big Priest counters these decks pretty hard especially Even Shaman.
2. Big Priest have been in Wild for a longer time and losing to it feels like losing a coinflip. In some games you have Barnes into Y'shaarj into Ragnaros and opponent just concedes.
3. Facts don't matter. Facts say Big Priest is not as broken as Even Shaman or Odd Rogue but that isn't going to change the perception of people, however many times you tell them about it.
I think people will switch to whining about Even Shaman after BP gets nerfed, which I think will be very soon.
I would complain about Odd Rouge and Even Shaman, and have indirectly by saying that Baku and Genn need a work around. The two cards are destorying deckbuilding. fx. Even (aggro) Shaman don't want to run one of the most broken one drops ever in Tunnel Trogg, and control Odd Warrior drop control cards like Exicute and Blood Razor. I think the two decks (Odd Rouge and Even Shaman) make Pirate Warrior look like an midrage deck! but I think people don't comlain because Big Priest is based about highroll and are so draw dependent.
Rationally, you have to consider more than winrates, which is just a superficial variable.
Again, i am not against nerfing some cards in Even Shaman and Odd Rogue. I am not saying they are perfectly ok.
But they are not comparable to Big Priest. Rationally, you have to consider HOW Big Priest wins.
Rationally, you will realise that Big Priest uses a meme-level mechanic (summon random copy from deck). Yet it is top tier. Rationally, you should understand something is wrong there (resurrection mechanic is broken on top of god tier removals).
Yes, and you are right to rant against Big Priest. Bares is 100% broken. Resurrection maybe too, at least as long blizzard does not give us cards that either puts crap in the opponents board/graveyard or interfere with it otherwise; they had the chance many times before, but instead they "print" pack filler. Not sure if a Barnesless priest would be balanced enough; personally i think so. The biggest issue is simply high-roll barnes as is high-roll keleseth. In the end: high-roll cards like these are never good cards, because you either have them and win the game or you don't and don't. They are not fun and cards like these needs simply to disappear. One card should never decide if you win the game or not.
But in the end: my question is why does everybody open every week a rant-thread about big priest, yet odd rogue and even shaman seems to be perfectly fine and nobody complains against them? Even if winrates aren't everything; it still shows how strong a deck is, And except odd-paladin, that was nerfed in the last patch, it didn't really had an hard-counter and still doesn't have it.
Ironically one of the best decks to fight against even shaman is Big Priest; yet it's by far no hard-counter.
I don't have HSreplay stats but I highly doubt that even shaman or odd rogue are at 70% win rate in legend. Aggro always has inflated win rates because it wrecks everyone at rank 14.
I've been calling for a BP / Barnes nerf for months, not because the deck is crazy good, but because it really, really sucks to lose to it.
Even shaman is arguably the strongest deck right now and may well get a nerf eventually because of that, but there will always be a deck which is "arguably the strongest deck right now" and if it isn't even shaman it will just be something else instead. However, there doesn't always need to be a deck which screws you over on turn 4 with a Barnes high roll. Nerf shaman or don't nerf shaman, I don't really mind, but please please do something about Big Priest.
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf.
But they are not highroll, ********, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need a nerf. It needs to be reduced to meme level.
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really ******** in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
Deck is good, but it doesn’t win 70% of the time. Stop exaggerating. It makes you look like a noob.
We have now about dozends of Big Priest Rants, but where are the rants about Odd Rogue or Even Shaman? Both decks are Tier 1, both decks are dominating the meta, both decks have a much higher winrate than Big Priest, yet there are only complains about Big Priest, Big Priest and oh yes, Big Priest.
Don't misunderstand me, Big Priest (or rather Barnes) really needs a nerf and i can totally understand that people are angry about this deck, but why is nobody complaining about the decks that right now are totally dominating the meta? Why is even shaman, that have around 70% winrate on hsreplay not even mentioned, but instead it's always only Big Priest?
after testing it, I agree with OP on Even-Shaman, Odd-Rogue where are the rants?
as a wild-player I would puke every second matchup, gosh, I really think I should stop playing this game... it's kind of broken, polarized in nearly every bit
it was a nice journey to see some older cards, but also cancerous (warlock, mage, paladin included)
Maybe they should delete genn and baku from the game
Maybe they should not allow standard-cards in wild until rotation hits, means one year without standard-expansions only classic, basic + wild
It's just like standard, people complain about Hunter while Even shaman out performs every hunter deck. People like to complain about the annoying things and rarely give a crap about the win-rate of the decks they complain about.
To be fair though big priest is a terminal illness, slowly killing the player base by one Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound on turn 4 at a time.
Aside from the fact that I don't agree with Odd Rogue and Even Shaman being op, can we start calling the overlord of Wild ResurREKT Priest due to all the whining? Thank you.
Aside from the fact that I don't agree with Odd Rogue and Even Shaman being op, can we start calling the overlord of Wild ResurREKT Priest due to all the whining? Thank you.
We have now about dozends of Big Priest Rants, but where are the rants about Odd Rogue or Even Shaman? Both decks are Tier 1, both decks are dominating the meta, both decks have a much higher winrate than Big Priest, yet there are only complains about Big Priest, Big Priest and oh yes, Big Priest.
Don't misunderstand me, Big Priest (or rather Barnes) really needs a nerf and i can totally understand that people are angry about this deck, but why is nobody complaining about the decks that right now are totally dominating the meta? Why is even shaman, that have around 70% winrate on hsreplay not even mentioned, but instead it's always only Big Priest?
I think the reason could be the following
these two types are aggro, you can play taunt, heal, aoe etc. to counter it and come back
but how to counter a 8/8 on T4, T5, T6, T7, T8 and so on, I guess...
and they killed kingsbane, so there's no deck to hardcounter it, I guess again
nothing to offend you
Odd Rogue and Even Shaman are relatively simple decks. And powerful. They also use some OP cards that could go with a nerf (Thing From Below and Vilespine Slayer above all: these two cards were always OP since their inception).
But they are not highroll, retarded, and outright broken as Big Priest is. Not even close.
Big Priest does not need some simple mana nerf. Big Priest needs to be reduced to meme level, as much as old Kingsbane did.
They are powerful, no doubt about it, but their entire wincondition doesn't get inflated by highrolling a single card.
Because the game plan of those two decks is fair and easily counterable. Big Priest on the other hand....
I don’t play any of those decks btw, I just like playing “disruption” Warlock in Wild, with all the deck and hand destruction cards I can run.
Dibbity don't touch that!
First it was druid, now priest lol
Sorry, but where is Even shaman not broken: 70% winrate is not broken: Having now teching in Burst with windfury that allows them to deal 14 damage with their 4 mana 7/7 is ok. Yet big priest is outright broken when they at least have some hard counter (Never really lost with mill rogue against big priest; except for missplays)
And Odd Rogue simply destroys the opponent turn 1-2 with their weapon and aggro you down thanks to the pirate-package. And yet, everything ok here too. Barnes really need a nerf, and just for opening up space for other control-type priest-decks too that are hard-countered by big priest.
And sorry, but where is even-shaman fair? I play it often enough to rank up to rank 5; and it's not fair at all. Turn 1 totem, turn 2 Totem Golem, Turn 3 you use flametongue-totem and totally destroy the enemy board with both totems, turn 4 4 mana 7/7, turn 5 totem and Thing from Below. So really, what's fair and balanced in this case (and yes, this exact thing happens often enough to count. Not forgetting the burst from Windspeaker and Windfury-spell, Crackle and Jade Lightning. And Jade Claws can deal with nearly everything on turn 1/2.
And if you want to nerf it to meme-level then you really only want to rant against it. The only real issue of Big Priest is Barnes; this card is really retarded in this deck, but the rest not really.
What i would have wanted since LONG TIME is a tech-card against big priest, something that summons worthless tokens on the enemy board. This would make random-resurrections far more unstable and people could tech them in and make big priest far more unreliable. Or a card that deals with the graveyard: One example: A Battlecry that let resurrection-effects summon random minions instead of the one that died for the rest of the game; this would make big priest as reliable as evolve-shaman. This, together with Loatheb could totally destroy Big Priest; yet you would still need to tech it in. Hearthstone needs more tech-cards against popular decks instead of adding more and more filler-cards (or a filler-expansion like Rastakhans Rumble)
Still: 70% winrate-shaman is fine, but Big Priest with a much lower winrate isn't? Sorry, but no, rationally I can't really understand this.
The only reason I can think of is that so few people play Wild.
Far too many disgusting cards for Shaman are in the Even slot. They were borderline broken when they were released, and were obviously not balanced around a turn 1 1-mana heropower.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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You have to consider more than winrates, which is just a superficial variable.
Again (i am not sure you read my first sentence), i am not against nerfing some cards in Even Shaman and Odd Rogue. I am not saying they are perfectly ok.
But they are not comparable to Big Priest. Rationally, you have to consider HOW Big Priest wins.
After some brief analysis, you will realise that Big Priest uses a meme-level mechanic (summon random copy from deck). Yet it is top tier. Rationally, you should understand something is wrong there (resurrection mechanic is broken, on top of god tier removals).
Most people aren't whining about Even Shaman and Odd Rogue because :
1. Because they are cheap aggro decks that mostly uses standard cards, so most people play them. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. It also happens that Big Priest counters these decks pretty hard especially Even Shaman.
2. Big Priest have been in Wild for a longer time and losing to it feels like losing a coinflip. In some games you have Barnes into Y'shaarj into Ragnaros and opponent just concedes.
3. Facts don't matter. Facts say Big Priest is not as broken as Even Shaman or Odd Rogue but that isn't going to change the perception of people, however many times you tell them about it.
I think people will switch to whining about Even Shaman after BP gets nerfed, which I think will be very soon.
I would complain about Odd Rouge and Even Shaman, and have indirectly by saying that Baku and Genn need a work around. The two cards are destorying deckbuilding. fx. Even (aggro) Shaman don't want to run one of the most broken one drops ever in Tunnel Trogg, and control Odd Warrior drop control cards like Exicute and Blood Razor. I think the two decks (Odd Rouge and Even Shaman) make Pirate Warrior look like an midrage deck! but I think people don't comlain because Big Priest is based about highroll and are so draw dependent.
Yes, and you are right to rant against Big Priest. Bares is 100% broken. Resurrection maybe too, at least as long blizzard does not give us cards that either puts crap in the opponents board/graveyard or interfere with it otherwise; they had the chance many times before, but instead they "print" pack filler. Not sure if a Barnesless priest would be balanced enough; personally i think so. The biggest issue is simply high-roll barnes as is high-roll keleseth. In the end: high-roll cards like these are never good cards, because you either have them and win the game or you don't and don't. They are not fun and cards like these needs simply to disappear. One card should never decide if you win the game or not.
But in the end: my question is why does everybody open every week a rant-thread about big priest, yet odd rogue and even shaman seems to be perfectly fine and nobody complains against them? Even if winrates aren't everything; it still shows how strong a deck is, And except odd-paladin, that was nerfed in the last patch, it didn't really had an hard-counter and still doesn't have it.
Ironically one of the best decks to fight against even shaman is Big Priest; yet it's by far no hard-counter.
I don't have HSreplay stats but I highly doubt that even shaman or odd rogue are at 70% win rate in legend. Aggro always has inflated win rates because it wrecks everyone at rank 14.
I've been calling for a BP / Barnes nerf for months, not because the deck is crazy good, but because it really, really sucks to lose to it.
Even shaman is arguably the strongest deck right now and may well get a nerf eventually because of that, but there will always be a deck which is "arguably the strongest deck right now" and if it isn't even shaman it will just be something else instead. However, there doesn't always need to be a deck which screws you over on turn 4 with a Barnes high roll. Nerf shaman or don't nerf shaman, I don't really mind, but please please do something about Big Priest.
Ah well, ok then. We are more or less on the same tune.
Big Priest aside, i think Even Shaman and Odd Rogue are silently accepted because they follow the most basic game rule: board-based Tempo.
Even if OP, they don't feel like that because they have some broken cards (broken before Odd/Even existed) but not broken core synergies.
Ofc it is a problem if Even Shaman occupies around 20% of the ladder.
Deck is good, but it doesn’t win 70% of the time. Stop exaggerating. It makes you look like a noob.
^^ Even shaman does win >70% - at rank 20.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
after testing it, I agree with OP on Even-Shaman, Odd-Rogue where are the rants?
as a wild-player I would puke every second matchup, gosh, I really think I should stop playing this game... it's kind of broken, polarized in nearly every bit
it was a nice journey to see some older cards, but also cancerous (warlock, mage, paladin included)
Maybe they should delete genn and baku from the game
Maybe they should not allow standard-cards in wild until rotation hits, means one year without standard-expansions only classic, basic + wild
thanks for this hint @OP
It's just like standard, people complain about Hunter while Even shaman out performs every hunter deck. People like to complain about the annoying things and rarely give a crap about the win-rate of the decks they complain about.
To be fair though big priest is a terminal illness, slowly killing the player base by one Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound on turn 4 at a time.
Aside from the fact that I don't agree with Odd Rogue and Even Shaman being op, can we start calling the overlord of Wild ResurREKT Priest due to all the whining? Thank you.
Sample size of 10000 games on HsReplay shows Even shaman around 70% winrate, yes, it's definitively not OP.