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    posted a message on Legendary Tier List & Crafting Guide

    Updates for the Standard section, more cards which have seen very little play and seem weak over all have started to find their way into tier 5.
    The Nameless One Tier 4 to 3
    Kiri, Chosen of Elune Tier 4 to 5
    Disciplinarian Gandling Tier 4 to 5
    Ysiel Windsinger Tier 4 to 5
    Al'ar Tier 4 to 3

    Also some text updates in tier 4 to better reflect the current decks, the effected cards are marked with * even though they have not changed tiers.

    For classic:
    King Mukla Tier 3 to 2

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Guidance does not trigger Unbound Elemental effect
    Quote from Banur >>

    According to the wording, Guidance is not a card with Overload. It overloads one mana, but it shouldn't count for the elemental.

    I see a big fat "Overload" on it. For other interactions, it does not matter if the feature is chosen or discovered.

    What about Tunnel Trogg?
    ?
    I know the wording is slightly different, but they should trigger the same way. "Whenever you overload mana crystals" would remove any doubt.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Guidance does not trigger Unbound Elemental effect
    Quote from Monerako >>

    Even if you  pick overload option in Guidance, Unbound Elemental does not get buff from it. Does someone know, if it´s intentional, or why it works like that, or is it just a bug, which should be reported?

    Sounds like one of many bugs this patch.

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on UnidentifiaBrawl is This Week's Tavern Brawl

    The best thing to say about this brawl is it reminded me Unidentified Maul is a card, but having 3 of them in hand is not very fun.

    But I won
    with slip-slop-slap,
    one and done,
    the pack was crap.

    Posted in: News
  • 1

    posted a message on Legendary Tier List & Crafting Guide
    Quote from Highwayman37 >>

    Hey SlydE

    I'd like to suggest moving Grand Totem Eys'or, Lothraxion and Speaker Gidra to Tier 3 as they don't seem to be played much at the moment.  

    That was a very good idea, they have not done well after the rotation:
    Speaker Gidra Tier 2 to 3
    Lothraxion the Redeemed Tier 2 to 4
    Grand Totem Eys'or Tier 2 to 4

    Thanks!

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Legendary Tier List & Crafting Guide

    Updated the list to reflect the upcoming changes. I am not sure which cards will benefit indirectly from the buffs, if any.

    Also, for the Classic section:
    King Mukla Tier 4 to 3

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Mage is God tier in Standard too now?
    Quote from noobito123 >>
    Quote from EvilZero >>

    Mage is the 4th beat class at the moment. It's winrate is less than Paladin, Warrior and Hunter.  It has a strong deck, but the numbers suggest it isn't overpowered. Paladin meanwhile has been at the top of the meta for months. It's nerf barely hurt its winrate. 

    Look at Mage win rates against anything other than Paladin and Hunter and you will see very different numbers, The two classes that beat it most are Hunter and Paladin, So yes it is overpowered, Is it as overpowered as Paladin no its not i dont think that deck even has a worse than 50/50 again any other class but if they nerf Paladin again (A nerf that actually makes a difference ofcourse) and possibly Hunter and dont touch Mage then no class will even have a 50/50 against Mage, Is Paladin a problem oh without a doubt but outside of Paladin and possibly Hunter make no mistake about it Mage is a massive problem.

    Mage will farm pretty much anything that is'nt Hunter and Paladin and Hunter and Paladin are the only decks with a positive win rate against Mage, Paladin no doubt about it needs a nerf, Honestly cant say i've ran into that many hunters so cant comment on that but Mage is also a serious problem for anything that is'nt one of those other two classes and if you nerf them and make them weaker against Mage without touching that class.....What beats Mage then since right now Paladin and Hunter seem to be the only classes than can beat it on average.

    I DID look it up. Rush warrior is 50/50, even slightly favoured against mage, and most rogue decks do very well vs them too.

    The matchups of no-minion mage are polarized, but I don't think a deck which has a sub 40% winrate vs the most popular one should ever be considered OP, especially when it is far from the top overall.

    We all see the meta through the decks we play. Check my profile pic.

    Posted in: Standard Format
  • 0

    posted a message on Mage is God tier in Standard too now?

    No. All popular paldains, face hunter, poison and stealth rogues counter mage too hard.

    Paladin is god tier in Standard.

    Posted in: Standard Format
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    posted a message on Incoming buff predictions (post for your fav class in bad need of them)
    Quote from mortizcor >>
    Quote from PetiteMouche >>
    Quote from Kurgo >>
    Quote from Pherosizm >>

    Well, I can't say that I predict this to happen, but I'd really like them to buff all the caravans to either be 1/4 (start of turn effect) or change them to be 1/3 (end of turn effect) because it's pretty tough to use them in the current state.

    Even a 0/4 (start of turn effect) would be more playable.

     Iksar was specifically asked if all caravans would be buffed and he said "No". Maybe they could buff only some but not all, that's off the table.

    Quote from Gray_Fox >>

    Maaaany cards need buff, even in wild it would be such interesting game for all cards to be playable.

     Never was the case in the entire history of the format, obviously never will be because of how the top decks get insanely better and more refined with every single expansion. And I personally don't even want to imagine what monstrosity would have to come up through buffs to be competitive against the likes of secret mage, handbuff pally and reno priest.

    Quote from An1ron >>

     Rune Dagger > 1 mana

    Lady Vashj > 6 mana prime

    Earth Revenant> 3 attack

    Totem Goliath > 4 mana or no overload, possible attack change 

    Grand Totem Eysor > buff for ALL totems including hp

    Fel Summoner > 5 mana, possible attack change 

    Kiri, Chosen of Elune> 3 mana 2/2 or 4 mana 3/3

    Blood Herald> 4 mana

    Alar > 4 mana, possible attack change

    Whirling Combatant > 3 mana 2/4 or 2/5

     I'm really puzzled at some of these choices. Al'ar? Why on earth would they buff Al'ar? For deathrattle dh? Of all the actually good cards, picking one that's horrible seems questionable to say the least. Also no idea why blood herald would need buffing to 4 mana. Jandice and apexis blast need crap 5 cost minions to not be entirely broken (they're both still extremely good), if anything I hope there'll be more severely understatted 5 cost minions in the miniset/next expansions.

     Wanting to buff good cards instead of horrible ones seems questionable to me, I don't see what's wrong with buffing Al'ar or other cool cards that see nearly zero play.

    And if your sole reasoning behind not buffing Blood Herald is to keep Apexis Blast in check then, maybe nerf apexis blast I don't know (jandice is fine at 6), but no card should ever be printed weak on purpose for a justification to bad RNG effects.

    Back in KotFT meta, Righteous Protector was introduced in order to delute the Stonehill defender's taunt minion pool. Remember that probability of getting a class minion was 4x in those days, guarranting a Tirion from Stonehill defender.

    There are tonnes of cards printed to lowroll random summon effects, usually involving a strong battlecry: Big-Time RacketeerAbyssal SummonerBomb SquadChromatic Egg etc.

    The Jandice Barov nerf was a direct result of a pool of 5-drops which was too strong. I don't like those low-roll cards, for spells and minios alike, but they are necessary.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How to nerf Oh My Yogg!

    Just sayin'

    https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/249034-how-would-you-nerf-oh-my-yogg

    Make a quick search before making a new thread.

     

     

    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Stop playing Alex in every Deck

    Alex is mainly a mid-range card, and a good one, but she can benefit control decks as well. I hope she does not get nerfed. Decks which are not aggro or combo need good cards too!

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Legendary Tier List & Crafting Guide

    Updates for the Wild section, some more Standard cards found their way into the top tiers!
    Blademaster Samuro To tier 1
    Alexstrasza the Life-Binder To tier 2
    Val'anyr Tier 2 to 1
    Deathwing, Mad Aspect To tier 4
    Galakrond, the Nightmare To tier 4
    Galakrond, the Unspeakable To tier 4
    Mindflayer Kaahrj To tier 4
    Zzeraku the Warped To tier 5

    Posted in: Card Discussion
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    posted a message on How Hearthstone tricked me.

    Comparing volatility at the top of the ladders of HS and SC2 is meaningless since SC2 has no mechanic to reset everyone's standing at the end of the month.  There is no apples to apples comparison, but the tournament results would be a much better proxy than simply assuming that the same people are putting the same effort to climb legend every single month, an assumption that would be necessary for the ladder comparison.  If there was some way to run an experiment where every player tried their hardest and had equal time to devote to the game every month, I seriously doubt there would be much volatility in top 200 legend (arguably the lowest sample size necessary for such an experiment), but that's as useless a statement as is the difference between one hundred million games and infinite games, so we're left to wonder.

    No, you are wrong. Both ladders are MMR based and you do NOT lose your MMR at the start of each season in either game.

    In SC2, players stay at the very top of the ladder much more consistently, and the best players also have a much better winrates, even vs other top players.

    The ladder data is all there, if I have the time, I will make some comparisons, like checking how many times players have managed to hit top 10 in either game. Tournament results is a different beast with smaller sample sizes, but could be interesting as well.

    I believe the less luck is involved in a competition, the less variation there will be at the top. If a CCG has a healthy pool of dedicated players, the game where the best players seem almost untouchable is almost certainly the deepest strategically.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How Hearthstone tricked me.
    Quote from Shadowrisen>>

    I specifically said what CARD game constitutes a 10/10 complexity.  Obviously there are hundreds of other games of different genres that qualify, though I would hasten to add that if SC2 is a 10/10, then Brood War has proven to be a 15/10 by comparison.

    The post I replied to was all about how HS is reskinned WAR (arguably the simplest of all card games), which is why for HS to be a 2/10 requires there to be a CARD game that qualifies as a 10/10, otherwise the scale is meaningless.

    @Arneankann

    That's a tired statement that is only true among the relatively tiny number of players who are capable of maintaining a >50% winrate while playing against the top players on ladder.  The vast majority of the player base could be given an infinite number of games played and they would never hit top 10 Legend.

    Just for the record: the SC2 vs brood war discussion is a side track, but although brood war is absolutely harder due to less automatic actions, less user friendly controls etc, the games are different enough so that the best BW players were not necessrely the best at SC2.

    You are actually wrong about never hitting top 10 legend despite an infinite amount of games. "Infinity" is so big finding 10.000 very favoured matchups in a row within it is easy. With how streaks work, you can also reach legend with a sub 50% winrate, even without bonus stars. I have checked simulations for this, and the break point seemed to be somewhere between 40 and 45% but that was with the old hearthstone ladder system.

    Digging deep into the statistics of the top of the Hearthstone ladder should be very interested, though! My gut tells me the top 10, or even top 100 at the end of each month is much more volatile than in games like SC2, which indicates luck is very important there as well. In standard, there is likely some breakpoint rank you can reach with skill alone, but from there and up, you need collaboration from the Hearthstone Gods to get good draws and matchups.

    Interresting video about luck vs skill and effort:
    https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How Hearthstone tricked me.
    Quote from Shadowrisen >>

    The statement "Hearthstone is rather simple for 99.9% of the playerbase" may be true in terms of that group's perception, but 99.9% of the player base's games are riddled with mistakes and sub-optimal play.

    So, clearly the perception of a game's simplicity says nothing about its actual skill ceiling.

    I've just watched for years as folks post about how simple the game is, or how luck is the predominant factor in game outcome (which, incidentally, is an objectively falsifiable claim, but that's for another day).  My personal favorite is when someone talks about their "perfect play" falling repeatedly to cheap tactics or rigged matchmaking.

    Whenever I have actually gotten one of these players to show me a replay of this alleged perfect play and the game has been over 7 turns long, there has ALWAYS been at least one clear and obvious mistake made by the "perfect" player.  ALWAYS.  And given they were the ones who volunteered the replay to prove their own point, this means that not only were they not good enough to not make the mistake, they weren't good enough to spot the mistake in hindsight.

    All of the above points to the conclusion that most of the playerbase isn't particularly qualified to pass judgment on the skill ceiling of the game.

    None of the above should be read to suggest that HS is the most complex of CCGs.  I was on the MtG Pro Tour for a few years, so I know that is clearly not the case.  On the other hand, if HS is a 2/10, I'd be curious to know what game constitutes a 10/10 in complexity.and/or difficulty.  Difficulty can be dismissed as a purely subjective rating, but complexity cannot.  I would be interested to know what qualifies as such a complex card game that HS is a re-skinned version of War by comparison. 

    Starcraft 2 (and Brood War) should be a 10/10 on complexity and difficulty. The skill ceiling goes far beyond human capacity, and there are plenty of possibilities to outsmart your opponent and force them to make mistakes on top of the game being super demanding mechanically. Compared to that, yes, Hearthstone is probably a 2/10. I can't really speak for other CCGs.

    Playing something extremely demanding is early what players want, though. It is not very relaxing, and you can generally only blame your own lack of for losing, which is not pleasent.

    I respect the creators of Hearthstone a lot for making a game where getting the winrate up those last few %s actually takes real effort and skill, despite luck being such an important factor.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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