So with Glimmerroot you get a random card from your opponent's starting deck (assuming you pick the right one) and learn nothing about their current hand.
But with Envoy, your justification for not using it is that your opponent's cards won't be useful anyway?? So what good is Glimmerroot then? Envoy actually tells you what cards your opponent is and isn't holding.
OP asked about Envoy and people's experience with it, not Glimmerroot. Some of you sound like you're just commenting on a card reveal thread and you've not even tried Envoy. You're so self-assured you're comparing it unfavourably to a worse priest minion from 2 years ago that you probably never even played.
Assuming you knew their deck archetype (and you always knew that in open deck formats), Glimmeroot gave you a random card 100% of the time. Envoy's chance of getting a card are always less than 100%.
The info you gain with Envoy is largely useless. Good players are already making reads on what cards are in or not in their opponent's hand; they don't need this extra info. Bad players aren't going to be able to utilize the info anyway; they can rarely make the best decisions even if their opponent's hands were completely face up, usually because they are playing with their "creative" home-brew decks that are extremely underpowered to begin with. And if this kind of info was useful, why has Chameleos NEVER seen competitive play?
Finally, but most importantly, what archetype would utilize Envoy? Clearly not Rez Priest nor Combo Priest. Is there some Unicorn out there? I suspect not. Even if Envoy were a "good" card, it has no deck to go into.
First of all Glimmerroot was not always a 100% chance to get a card, as several classes had multiple archetypes while it was in rotation (for example Mage which had Quest, Control, Odd and Tempo variations all at once). Not to mention times in between metas when people were experimenting with all sorts of stuff.
Second, there are countless situations where Envoy will have a 100% to give you a card. The most obvious example being if it shows you The Coin in your opponent's hand. This is where the thinking comes into play, which people who completely dismiss the card seem to be missing.
Thirdly, knowing what cards your opponent has or doesn't have is BETTER than just assuming what they might have. It may not be enough to make a card competitive, but this is still just simple logic that anyone should know.
And finally, you can use Envoy in almost any priest archetype because it is a tech card. Not an archetypal one. But atm it is most useful in Galakrond Priest since it can snag you additional Galakrond cards, cheapen your Mountain Giants if you're playing them, and potentially add minions to be summoned from your hand by Princess Talanji.
I was often able to determine if my Mage opponent was an Odd Mage before the first card was played. There is a little trick you might not be aware of. Quest was usually determinable quite early on as well. What's left? A Tempo Mage that whiffed on turns 1 and 2 and looks like a Big Spell Mage? Even then the pool of cards offered might give the deck type away.
These situations where your opponent hasn't used their coin on turn 1, how often do they come up? How often will the Coin be offered as a choice? (Can't be very many - opponent probably has four cards in their hand.). And how valuable is a 2/2 that draws a Coin? Is it game winning? Don't think so.
More generally, even if you guess/infer correctly, how often is the card really useful? If you are up against a Face Hunter, is playing a 2/2 on turn 2 and getting a Leper Gnome gonna help you survive?
And last, but not least, Galakrond Priest is a meme deck. I realize the Hearthpwn community is full of "creative" types that love to swim upstream. But Hearthstone is a game with a winner and a loser. And if you are playing Galakrond Priest, you are playing to lose.
So with Glimmerroot you get a random card from your opponent's starting deck (assuming you pick the right one) and learn nothing about their current hand.
But with Envoy, your justification for not using it is that your opponent's cards won't be useful anyway?? So what good is Glimmerroot then? Envoy actually tells you what cards your opponent is and isn't holding.
OP asked about Envoy and people's experience with it, not Glimmerroot. Some of you sound like you're just commenting on a card reveal thread and you've not even tried Envoy. You're so self-assured you're comparing it unfavourably to a worse priest minion from 2 years ago that you probably never even played.
Assuming you knew their deck archetype (and you always knew that in open deck formats), Glimmeroot gave you a random card 100% of the time. Envoy's chance of getting a card are always less than 100%.
The info you gain with Envoy is largely useless. Good players are already making reads on what cards are in or not in their opponent's hand; they don't need this extra info. Bad players aren't going to be able to utilize the info anyway; they can rarely make the best decisions even if their opponent's hands were completely face up, usually because they are playing with their "creative" home-brew decks that are extremely underpowered to begin with. And if this kind of info was useful, why has Chameleos NEVER seen competitive play?
Finally, but most importantly, what archetype would utilize Envoy? Clearly not Rez Priest nor Combo Priest. Is there some Unicorn out there? I suspect not. Even if Envoy were a "good" card, it has no deck to go into.
I mean he definitely is too strong but i feel like zilliax is even more op. according to hsreplay.net Leeroy is in 36.5% of the decks meanwhile zilliax is in 51%of the decks which means that on average there is a zilliax in every game.
Zilliax is a strong card in mech decks, but Zilliax isn't a face card like Leeroy is. He's board removal and healing. He's mediocre at both, but the best sustain for some classes. Without Zilliax, face would be WAAAY more dominant than it already is.
I've been against the charge mechanic in general since day 1 because of how detrimental it has always been. It took them years to finally stop fucking printing it and it made the game way better. But now we're left with Kor'kron Commander, Leeroy Jenkins and Unleash the Hounds as the final bastions of Charge.
Class cards having insanely powerful mechanics (cost deduction, charge, divine shield) is fine. Leeroy's a colossal pain as a neutral card.
And after we get rid of Charge, what is next? Burn spells that can go face?
We could make every minion in the game be N-mana with N/N+1 stats and no text. Sounds like great fun, doesn't it.
We have had three expansions of broken rush cards dominating the Meta. Just because they can't go face, doesn't mean they aren't OP.
It is popular Hunter now because Shaman became slower by nerfs and it is very easy to counter him with having a healing kit.
They said they would make changes in January on Reddit.
No, that is NOT what they said. They said that they would consider making other changes, if necessary. Most people have figured out that the Meta is reasonably (not perfectly) balance right now, so I suspect a Balance patch is totally unnecessary. The Adventure will come out later this month, and that alone will shake up the Meta. It's possible to see a balance patch in Feb/Mar, but even that is not a guarantee.
OP, if you took a look at HSR, you would notice that Galakrond Warrior is the most popular deck in the game across all Ranks. And while Face Hunter is the second most popular, it's play rate (as well as it win rate) shrinks as you get to higher and higher ranks.
The analogy to WoW seems bad as level cap in WoW doesn't relate to hero starting Health in HS. It's like comparing apples to earthworms. Totally unrelated.
Regardless, the whole game is designed around 30 health. Changing it to something else would require massive changes to the game. It would be a totally new game.
Personally I don't have huge problem with the existence of it, but I for sure wouldn't shed tears if it was HoFed. If cards like Rag, Sly and Azure got the axe then I don't see why Leeroy wouldn't. Also they can take Maly too, fuck that dragon
Precisely why were Rag and Sly sent to the HoF? When those two cards were reintroduced into Standard last summer, they saw sporadic play in a few decks. Neither one made a huge impact on the decks they were played in, nor on the Meta as a whole. They are good cards, but simply being good doesn't necessarily cut it in Ranked play.
The question I'm posing is more than rhetorical. What I am really asking is what are the criteria for HoF? Play rate? Whine rate? Phase of the Moon? It's far from clear to me. That is why I think pondering what cards, if any, should be sent to the HoF to be rather pointless.
why? so that people like you can keep playing their brainless game?
Or because unlike people like you there are better options out there that don't involve whining on hearthpwn about every single thing you personally deem unfair.
Do you not realize that there has not been a single day that has passed that someone wasn't whining on these forums about whatever card/deck is currently on top? There will literally always be a strongest deck, and whatever is making that deck strong will be complained about.
There's 0 counterargument that you or anyone else on here could make that is valid against that point. The point of people on here always bitch about something that they lost to. Because this isn't opinion, it is just fact. Go find me a day where there hasn't been complaining.
And if your counter argument is "yeah because Blizzard can't balance crap and the game has always sucked." QUIT PLAYING. Wow, what a notion.
Of course, the point of complaining is the hope that something will be done so that no one has to quit.
And to be clear, no one is complaining about a deck here. This is about a specific, singular card that has been problematic from time to time -- and has appeared in nearly every aggro deck -- since the launch of the game.
But recent decks do serve to highlight just how problematic Charge continues to be. The ability to easily buff and duplicate Leeroy has an exponential effect on the problems that already existed with the card.
As I pointed out in my previous post, Leeroy could be replaced in Classic with a card that serves the same basic function without the threat of being increased and multiplied.
Wow, just wow.
So Leeroy is making people quit? Really? There are players out there who basically love Hearthstone, can't wait to play, but they lose once or twice to a Leeroy combo, and uninstall the game and never play it again?
OP practically lives and bathes in the Salt Thread. It goes there to spit venom whenever it loses a game.
I don't even see the reason for a Salt Thread in the first place. People who are sore losers shouldn't be playing games in the first place.
But given the fact that there is one, why not move this thread, as well as all threads of the form "Card/Deck needs a nerf" to it? There is absolutely nothing constructive that ever comes out of these threads.
Or is HearthPwn only a dumping ground for born losers to shit on the game?
Two weeks is all Blizzard can manage before they screw things up again. This time we didn't even get that much. OP Shaman was replaced with Hypercontrol Priest, and here we are.
Do you ever do anything other than whine and cry?
Do you do anything other than kiss developers ass?
You just have to ignore TardisGreen, they only spout toxic opinions without purpose. One of the few trolls left at Hearthpwn.
Two weeks is all Blizzard can manage before they screw things up again. This time we didn't even get that much. OP Shaman was replaced with Hypercontrol Priest, and here we are.
I will eat my hat if the meta actually improves after the nerf. But looking at the power level for Rogue and hunter, I believe my hat is safe. The problem with Hearthstone is there are just too many no-skill cards. We are far removed from the days of Whispers and League of Explorers where match-up were based on skill and navigating good or bad luck instead of pure card power. And I don't think blizzard ever intends to return to that style.
Hearthstone esports scene was at it's peak around the time of Reno's release. I have never been a big follower of competitive hearthstone but I understand how it made for entertaining viewing when someone drew reno when they needed it in a semi-final scenario.
I think Blizzard is just trying to recapture that atmosphere and excitement from a by-gone age.
'One of' decks haven't had the same love since league of explorers and I respect them for trying to put some focus in to that aspect of play because it was a fun time to be playing hearthstone but Zephyrs doesn't do anything to sustain that feeling, it's just a frustration with little counter play.
(Pre-nerf) Razakus Priest would like to have a word with you.
0
I was often able to determine if my Mage opponent was an Odd Mage before the first card was played. There is a little trick you might not be aware of. Quest was usually determinable quite early on as well. What's left? A Tempo Mage that whiffed on turns 1 and 2 and looks like a Big Spell Mage? Even then the pool of cards offered might give the deck type away.
These situations where your opponent hasn't used their coin on turn 1, how often do they come up? How often will the Coin be offered as a choice? (Can't be very many - opponent probably has four cards in their hand.). And how valuable is a 2/2 that draws a Coin? Is it game winning? Don't think so.
More generally, even if you guess/infer correctly, how often is the card really useful? If you are up against a Face Hunter, is playing a 2/2 on turn 2 and getting a Leper Gnome gonna help you survive?
And last, but not least, Galakrond Priest is a meme deck. I realize the Hearthpwn community is full of "creative" types that love to swim upstream. But Hearthstone is a game with a winner and a loser. And if you are playing Galakrond Priest, you are playing to lose.
0
Assuming you knew their deck archetype (and you always knew that in open deck formats), Glimmeroot gave you a random card 100% of the time. Envoy's chance of getting a card are always less than 100%.
The info you gain with Envoy is largely useless. Good players are already making reads on what cards are in or not in their opponent's hand; they don't need this extra info. Bad players aren't going to be able to utilize the info anyway; they can rarely make the best decisions even if their opponent's hands were completely face up, usually because they are playing with their "creative" home-brew decks that are extremely underpowered to begin with. And if this kind of info was useful, why has Chameleos NEVER seen competitive play?
Finally, but most importantly, what archetype would utilize Envoy? Clearly not Rez Priest nor Combo Priest. Is there some Unicorn out there? I suspect not. Even if Envoy were a "good" card, it has no deck to go into.
1
And after we get rid of Charge, what is next? Burn spells that can go face?
We could make every minion in the game be N-mana with N/N+1 stats and no text. Sounds like great fun, doesn't it.
We have had three expansions of broken rush cards dominating the Meta. Just because they can't go face, doesn't mean they aren't OP.
2
No, that is NOT what they said. They said that they would consider making other changes, if necessary. Most people have figured out that the Meta is reasonably (not perfectly) balance right now, so I suspect a Balance patch is totally unnecessary. The Adventure will come out later this month, and that alone will shake up the Meta. It's possible to see a balance patch in Feb/Mar, but even that is not a guarantee.
OP, if you took a look at HSR, you would notice that Galakrond Warrior is the most popular deck in the game across all Ranks. And while Face Hunter is the second most popular, it's play rate (as well as it win rate) shrinks as you get to higher and higher ranks.
1
... and wants to have some bacon with it. Sorry Huffer, but everything tastes better with bacon.
5
The analogy to WoW seems bad as level cap in WoW doesn't relate to hero starting Health in HS. It's like comparing apples to earthworms. Totally unrelated.
Regardless, the whole game is designed around 30 health. Changing it to something else would require massive changes to the game. It would be a totally new game.
No reason to do this.
2
Right. Justify playing bad cards by playing more bad cards.
Astonishing!
0
Precisely why were Rag and Sly sent to the HoF? When those two cards were reintroduced into Standard last summer, they saw sporadic play in a few decks. Neither one made a huge impact on the decks they were played in, nor on the Meta as a whole. They are good cards, but simply being good doesn't necessarily cut it in Ranked play.
The question I'm posing is more than rhetorical. What I am really asking is what are the criteria for HoF? Play rate? Whine rate? Phase of the Moon? It's far from clear to me. That is why I think pondering what cards, if any, should be sent to the HoF to be rather pointless.
0
Wow, just wow.
So Leeroy is making people quit? Really? There are players out there who basically love Hearthstone, can't wait to play, but they lose once or twice to a Leeroy combo, and uninstall the game and never play it again?
4
Is that enough?
OP practically lives and bathes in the Salt Thread. It goes there to spit venom whenever it loses a game.
I don't even see the reason for a Salt Thread in the first place. People who are sore losers shouldn't be playing games in the first place.
But given the fact that there is one, why not move this thread, as well as all threads of the form "Card/Deck needs a nerf" to it? There is absolutely nothing constructive that ever comes out of these threads.
Or is HearthPwn only a dumping ground for born losers to shit on the game?
1
You should try looking in the mirror.
0
Do you ever do anything other than whine and cry?
0
How does tin foil taste?
0
(Pre-nerf) Razakus Priest would like to have a word with you.
3
This. In less than TWO days of the New Year we have had FIVE of these threads.