If blizzard wants the wild format to become more popular (With the tournament and such) They will probably have to nerf a few cards to keep the format healthy. Do you think Blizzard should nerf cards even if they were rotated into wild?
It would have to be game breaking...like a card or cards that makes a deck heads and tails better than all other decks in wild, and therefore the only legitimately viable deck that can be played on ladder; i.e. something that creates a true mono-deck format.
There are some cards (like N'Zoth and Ship's Cannon) which are much better in wild than they ever were in standard because of the card pool. But they don't destroy gameplay. Sure, they might make you feel salty, but that's not a problem that breaks a game mode.
@1xbenx1; I think we might have a year or two left before that happens, Wild is definitely shaping up to be the super-high synergy format people were expecting it to head into. I'll be curious to see how they handle something like N'Zoth (who really isn't that broken, but over time certainly could be).
Right now though I think the format is super healthy. I'd be absolutely shocked if they made any adjustments.
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Currently, I don't see anything that needs removal/nerfing after there are so many cards that were ridiculous in standard but have been a bit ho-hum/so-so in wild. I used to think you needed Dr 7 in a deck, but I've made many casual wild decks without it and didn't feel punished for it. I could see some complaints about cards that are extremely common in wild- sludge belcher, probably azure drake since it was super common pre-rotation... etc.
I think they should do like magic the gathering, ban cards that are overrepresented in the meta, and when new cards show up, they'll unban them eventually, if they get counter more easily, or if the deck is no longer relevant in the meta because it can't compete with other decks, but the cards that were ban can work in another deck without being overpowered. I don't know if you see what i mean :p but i guess it requires to create a real "casual" instance, where you're able to play any card you want.
Thats actually not true. The power level of a card is usually determined by other collectible cards. So right now it might be busted. Just like mysterious challenger was busted with avenge, brann with kazakus and so on. But they didnt nerf them because they were only so strong during 1 expansion cycle. So in the end it didnt matter that mutch.
So the difference between mysterious challenger etc...and wild cards is that these cards will be busted forever. Until blizzard decides to make sth with it. This is why in my opinion it will be a hard task to complete. Either they will search community for cards which cause biggest rants or they will have to make testing themselves. But the time spent on it require more people. More people = more money for salary.
Until blizzard decides to really start looking closely at wild environment, I dont think they are happy with investing money on sth past rather than new features.
Yes, if something that limits the meta to something like 1 powerdeck vs 1 counterdeck or a turn 3 otk comes along.
The tech options are pretty good in wild, so I think we are safe for now.
I believe the starting hands in Wild will be increasingly important, though, as bad starts will be brutally run over. I had a 7-3 wyrm, a sorcapp, a shielded minibot and a secret up on turn 3 today, for example. Shaman, pirate warrior and token druid can all do disgusting stuff as well.
@1xbenx1; I think we might have a year or two left before that happens, Wild is definitely shaping up to be the super-high synergy format people were expecting it to head into. I'll be curious to see how they handle something like N'Zoth (who really isn't that broken, but over time certainly could be).
Right now though I think the format is super healthy. I'd be absolutely shocked if they made any adjustments.
I actually think there's good possibility that it never happens.
@1xbenx1; Oh, it'll happen eventually. Even if it's a pre-emptive adjustment, something they make one day is going to break the format in half...
Wild is supposed to be a lot higher power level though, so that might not happen for a very long time (and to be honest it might not even be a very large adjustment). Like, Ship's Cannon is an interaction they're totally fine with and it seems fitting for the legacy format. Also take with a grain of salt that I actually don't think Hearthstone is going anywhere for another decade, so to me it just seems inevitable they're going to break Wild.
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My belief from the announcement of Wild/Standard was that all heroes would be moving towards their own "Secret Paladin" style deck, where the on-curve power is so strong they are tough to handle. However, if every class has something so strong then it's likely to be decently balanced as powerhouse deck vs. powerhouse deck. Synergy is likely to be the determining factor along the way, be it dragon, elemental, deathrattle, etc. I agree with Tze that Wild is definitely looking like exactly that, and it would take something outrageous to force nerfs. Going a step forward from there, I think it would simply be a matter of nerfing whatever new card(s) were responsible for a huge balance swing, rather than requiring old cards be changed.
Iksar was a guest on the Angry Chicken podcast about a year ago, a month or two after the format split. He discussed the future of Wild, and explained why cards like Dr Boom and Piloted Shredder weren't really cards which they were concerned about with respect to power levels - neither card synergizes particularly well with anything, and they are essentially just a bunch of stats. Looking at the numbers on HSReplays, both cards have play-rates of about 15% in Wild - as it turns out, the majority of N'Zoth decks no longer even bother running Shredder, as there are simply better options.
BB has said quite a few times that the team intends to address cards which might become problematic - the only potential problem I foresee would be a card which is fine in Standard, but degenerate in Wild owing to pre-existing synergies in the older format which are absent in Standard. Perhaps they will elect to ban such cards from Wild, and nerf them when they rotate out of Standard? However, the format currently seems quite healthy, and I've enjoyed it a great deal since the launch of Un'Goro.
As time goes on, the possibility of cards being nerfed is a possibility, however as more and more time goes on, the meta of wild will change. New cards will be released and new decks will pop up because of that. Counter pick cards will become more and more common as time goes on. While standard cards might be changed and nerfed, the idea that a card in wild will be nerfed is not likely. People said the same thing about N'Zoth, and while there are top decks that run this card, there are counters to that deck. AOE, True removal, and decks that end the game before they can even play N'zoth are examples.
A card that is overpowered and broken in one meta becomes useless in another, just look at Dr. Boom. The card was the most broken card, in every deck ever, and was an extreme amount of play. Now you would rather run other cards to get more synergy in you deck for a run 7 play. Cards don't need to be nerfed in wild until the moment that every deck, no matter what kind, HAS to run the deck or lose the game. At that point you need to nerf that card. Only one card had that status in Hearthstone, undertaker. Blizard will not make that mistake again. They choose between the minnon getting health OR Damage since, never both.
In short, a card will be nerfed when there is no other option. That will takes years to happen.
Wild is fun mostly because of the crazy things you can do, if they start to "fix" it then they'll simply kill it. They want to improve its visibility but the way it is probably.
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For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Stupid nerfs such as ancient of lore, force of nature, keeper of the grove, molten giant, blade flurry should never have happened, others like, BGH, warsong commander, yogg, STB, spirit claws, gadgetzan auctioneer, call of the wild made the game healthier
Only one card had that status in Hearthstone, undertaker. Blizard will not make that mistake again. They choose between the minnon getting health OR Damage since, never both.
OMG, turn 1 Undertaker, Coin, Undertaker.... I would usually just concede...
Fun thought: What current card do you think has the most future potential to break wild? My vote goes to the mage quest.
Deep, deep down I'm really hoping for Purify to break the game. Seeing it transition into a top-tier Deck was delicious after the salty flood of tears when it was revealed, seeing it become a game breaking card would just be priceless.
For the serious picks, I'm honestly not too sure. Mage Quest does feel like a tempting candidate, but I almost feel like something like Shadow Visions could make for something ridiculous; it's pretty harmless, but tutoring specific things in Hearthstone always feels super strong and I feel like that could go under the radar before someone figures out how to break it. Aviana/Kun can also do some wacky stuff if Druid gets more options to cycle.
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Stupid nerfs such as ancient of lore, force of nature, keeper of the grove, molten giant, blade flurry should never have happened, others like, BGH, warsong commander, yogg, STB, spirit claws, gadgetzan auctioneer, call of the wild made the game healthier
Force of nature was a good nerf, all of the others were bad. Blade flurry I'm okay with the nerf to minions only, but the change in mana cost really killed the card. It would be a good card in control rogue, but sadly control rogue can never happen
Thats actually not true. The power level of a card is usually determined by other collectible cards. So right now it might be busted. Just like mysterious challenger was busted with avenge, brann with kazakus and so on. But they didnt nerf them because they were only so strong during 1 expansion cycle. So in the end it didnt matter that mutch.
So the difference between mysterious challenger etc...and wild cards is that these cards will be busted forever. Until blizzard decides to make sth with it. This is why in my opinion it will be a hard task to complete. Either they will search community for cards which cause biggest rants or they will have to make testing themselves. But the time spent on it require more people. More people = more money for salary.
Until blizzard decides to really start looking closely at wild environment, I dont think they are happy with investing money on sth past rather than new features.
You are right, but also a card might be countered by other cards. Taking your example, Mysterious Challenger is countered by Flare or Eater of Secrets, Brann Bronzebeard +Kazakus is countered by some deck archetypes. So there is a sort of balance, but when that balance is broken, then a nerf is required.
If blizzard wants the wild format to become more popular (With the tournament and such) They will probably have to nerf a few cards to keep the format healthy. Do you think Blizzard should nerf cards even if they were rotated into wild?
I don't feel like they should. If they made it through a full two year rotation as is, I don't see why they would need to nerf them now.
It would have to be game breaking...like a card or cards that makes a deck heads and tails better than all other decks in wild, and therefore the only legitimately viable deck that can be played on ladder; i.e. something that creates a true mono-deck format.
There are some cards (like N'Zoth and Ship's Cannon) which are much better in wild than they ever were in standard because of the card pool. But they don't destroy gameplay. Sure, they might make you feel salty, but that's not a problem that breaks a game mode.
@1xbenx1; I think we might have a year or two left before that happens, Wild is definitely shaping up to be the super-high synergy format people were expecting it to head into. I'll be curious to see how they handle something like N'Zoth (who really isn't that broken, but over time certainly could be).
Right now though I think the format is super healthy. I'd be absolutely shocked if they made any adjustments.
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Currently, I don't see anything that needs removal/nerfing after there are so many cards that were ridiculous in standard but have been a bit ho-hum/so-so in wild. I used to think you needed Dr 7 in a deck, but I've made many casual wild decks without it and didn't feel punished for it. I could see some complaints about cards that are extremely common in wild- sludge belcher, probably azure drake since it was super common pre-rotation... etc.
I think they should do like magic the gathering, ban cards that are overrepresented in the meta, and when new cards show up, they'll unban them eventually, if they get counter more easily, or if the deck is no longer relevant in the meta because it can't compete with other decks, but the cards that were ban can work in another deck without being overpowered. I don't know if you see what i mean :p but i guess it requires to create a real "casual" instance, where you're able to play any card you want.
Thats actually not true. The power level of a card is usually determined by other collectible cards. So right now it might be busted. Just like mysterious challenger was busted with avenge, brann with kazakus and so on. But they didnt nerf them because they were only so strong during 1 expansion cycle. So in the end it didnt matter that mutch.
So the difference between mysterious challenger etc...and wild cards is that these cards will be busted forever. Until blizzard decides to make sth with it. This is why in my opinion it will be a hard task to complete. Either they will search community for cards which cause biggest rants or they will have to make testing themselves. But the time spent on it require more people. More people = more money for salary.
Until blizzard decides to really start looking closely at wild environment, I dont think they are happy with investing money on sth past rather than new features.
Yes, if something that limits the meta to something like 1 powerdeck vs 1 counterdeck or a turn 3 otk comes along.
The tech options are pretty good in wild, so I think we are safe for now.
I believe the starting hands in Wild will be increasingly important, though, as bad starts will be brutally run over. I had a 7-3 wyrm, a sorcapp, a shielded minibot and a secret up on turn 3 today, for example. Shaman, pirate warrior and token druid can all do disgusting stuff as well.
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@1xbenx1; Oh, it'll happen eventually. Even if it's a pre-emptive adjustment, something they make one day is going to break the format in half...
Wild is supposed to be a lot higher power level though, so that might not happen for a very long time (and to be honest it might not even be a very large adjustment). Like, Ship's Cannon is an interaction they're totally fine with and it seems fitting for the legacy format. Also take with a grain of salt that I actually don't think Hearthstone is going anywhere for another decade, so to me it just seems inevitable they're going to break Wild.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
As time goes on, the possibility of cards being nerfed is a possibility, however as more and more time goes on, the meta of wild will change. New cards will be released and new decks will pop up because of that. Counter pick cards will become more and more common as time goes on. While standard cards might be changed and nerfed, the idea that a card in wild will be nerfed is not likely. People said the same thing about N'Zoth, and while there are top decks that run this card, there are counters to that deck. AOE, True removal, and decks that end the game before they can even play N'zoth are examples.
A card that is overpowered and broken in one meta becomes useless in another, just look at Dr. Boom. The card was the most broken card, in every deck ever, and was an extreme amount of play. Now you would rather run other cards to get more synergy in you deck for a run 7 play. Cards don't need to be nerfed in wild until the moment that every deck, no matter what kind, HAS to run the deck or lose the game. At that point you need to nerf that card. Only one card had that status in Hearthstone, undertaker. Blizard will not make that mistake again. They choose between the minnon getting health OR Damage since, never both.
In short, a card will be nerfed when there is no other option. That will takes years to happen.
Bow Down before the God of RNG!
Fun thought: What current card do you think has the most future potential to break wild? My vote goes to the mage quest.
Wild is fun mostly because of the crazy things you can do, if they start to "fix" it then they'll simply kill it. They want to improve its visibility but the way it is probably.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Stupid nerfs such as ancient of lore, force of nature, keeper of the grove, molten giant, blade flurry should never have happened, others like, BGH, warsong commander, yogg, STB, spirit claws, gadgetzan auctioneer, call of the wild made the game healthier
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
No.
Greetings, traveler.
Let's make Hunter great.