Help
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Aug 29, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on is it ok to keep spending real money on packs ?

    If you don't have the cards you need to have fun, then yeah don't stress it. Even if you're just looking to open a few more cool "gimmick" cards (like the DK Hunter or what not), there's nothing wrong with spending a little bit of money to have fun the way you want to have fun.

    But if you're kinda buying packs and then never really using the cards (or sitting on an unnecessarily large amount of dust), you may want to at least rethink it. There's nothing wrong with spending money solely for the joy of opening packs, but you may want to make sure it's not like an unhealthy addiction or anything. Hoarding/gambling instincts can cause people to spend a lot of money when they really shouldn't be (though again it depends on your financial situation too).

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Aug 25, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on Decent alternative to Hearthstone?

    I'd personally recommend Plants vs. Zombies: Heroes (though it is mobile only).

    The way the turn is broken up allows for a surprising amount of strategy, with Zombies having an interrupt phase that allows them to act before combat and plants needing to play around what they might play (and zombies of course trying to figure out what mana they need to save). I feel more of the cards are viable than in Hearthstone, too.

     

    Posted in: Other Games
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Aug 24, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on what's blizzard's official stance on Mill?

    They've essentially said they never want it to be meta-deck, but they're fine with it being fringe. That does mean they'd probably nerf if it ever got popular, but I don't think it's going to see much play anytime soon (it's weaknesses are still too big, and it's hard to play, so I don't think people just "haven't caught on yet" or anything).

    Posted in: Rogue
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Aug 6, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on Toshley, Sneed's, or Piloted Sky Golem?

    Sneed's Old Shredder is probably the most fun, and depending on the other Deathrattle minions you're running, has less slot competition.

    Toshley is really more for miracle/mage decks.

    Piloted Sky Golem probably has the most (and safest) value (though suffers from slot competition).

    Posted in: Priest
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Jul 28, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on Spreading Plague wording vs Unleash the Hound
    Quote from definitelynotsalty >>

    It's so the card does nothing if you are ahead on board.  If you have 3 minions, and enemy has 4 minions,  UTL and PTK summons 4 tokens while this new card will summon 1.

    Balance reasons. 

    This. Spreading  Plague summons the difference in minions, while re other two summon an amount equal to your opponent.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 29, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from eddiefiv >>
    Quote from Krezione >>

     Unite the Murlocs just the best quest...

     10 Murlocs is a lot and its doubtful that you'll finish the Quest before turn 7 or 8, maybe even later since you skip your turn 1 and don't have much room for draw.  All Murloc decks aside from Anyfin Can Happen run into this issue, and its the reason Murloc Shaman never took off before now.
    Tier guide is starting to look less lazy, and more like what I would expect to happen. Fire Fly, Tar Creeper and Tol'vir Stoneshaper are expected to form an Elemental Package and so I think should be moved up a tier, or possibly should stay in Tier 3 and have a new Tier made below them.  Tier 3 can be cards that require specific decks or synergy to work and thus may not make it into decks that aren't specifically tailored to fit their needs. Hemet, Jungle Hunter fits that as well.
    There is at least Call in the Finishers, but it is only one card.
    Yeah, that's fair. I've moved Tar Creeper up to the Elemental Tier (I think a couple might've brought up the combo before but I glossed over it). I'm still not sold on Fire Fly though. I don't think having such a bad card solely as an activator is worth it.
    Admittedly I have based the tiers a lot around preexisting (even if not currently in the meta) decks. It's hard to judge how some of these weird build around decks will do (like a hunter deck with nothing but 1-drops). Hemet, Jungle Hunter especially might be a killer card in some kind of control/combo deck. But weirder decks tend to suffer a lot in the meta (even if they can climb well sometimes) and don't really have a great history of succeeding in the Hearthstone. They can be a lot of fun though.
    Quote from Tze >>

    Pretty sure a lot of your Tier 3 picks are being written off for arbitrary reasons. Lakarri Felhound is going to see play no matter what Discolock variation gets played (aggressive vs midrange, quest vs no quest). Most of Hunter's cards are actually really good, and it might seem crazy but I think the 5-drop that draws your 1-drops is actually insanely good in tandem with the Quest; the Quest itself is just bonkers. Arcanologist will see play in any Mage that wants to play Secrets, because Mad Scientist was busted and this is a balanced version of that.

    Mimic Pod is not as good as Arcane Intellect in my opinion. It just isn't. It's Tier 2 at best, short of a Rogue list being developed that runs high value targets to topdeck or a card being released that lets you manipulate the top of your deck. If you're going to create a "pessimistic" tier list, this card really doesn't belong.

    Tar Creeper is going to see play if there's even a hint of Aggro, and because it's one of the better Elementals in the set. I don't think it's the Piloted Shredder of the expansion... but it's definitely the Zombie Chow. You're completely underestimating how big of a deal 1 mana can be in a matchup like Pirate Warrior, and how useful consecutive Taunts are for stabilizing.

    Fire Fly is going to see play in every deck that needs Elemental triggers, short of maybe lists that legitimately just try to run every Elemental. Even then, having a one-mana trigger is going to be essential when you're running things like the guy who gets divine shield + taunt but lacks the tribal tag.

    I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I'm positive about. Hunter not seeing play would genuinely surprise me, and specifically Quest Hunter with a lot of ways to approach the archetype and lots of support for making a large number of 1-drops not suck. It's entirely possible to be pessimistic about upsides/downsides without trying to split hairs to keep the smallest list of playables you can.

    One of the issues with discard cards though is they tend to trip over each other a lot. If you have Lakarri Felhound and Doomguard in your hand, you can probably say goodbye to Doomguard. The best discard locks right now too are very zoo, and while a 4-cost with such value might work, they also want a lower curve with more an immediate impact.
    The hunter minions are good (I wrote more about the quest higher up, but you have to run A LOT of 1-drops to use it consistently), but hunter's toolkit is just currently lacking. Card draw and AoE, mainly. They've scrapped by on occasion, but I think other midrange decks are just going to outdo them.
    Mad Scientist was so good because it played the secret for you, which was a massive tempo swing. Arcanologist is great if the secrets are good enough to run already, since that at least shows playing them is worth the mana, but I don't think Arcanologist is good enough to make you run secrets.
    That's fair with Mimic Pod. I'll probably think it over more soon.
    I moved Tar Creeper to the elemental tier, and talked about it above in this post (and a lot elsewhere in this thread). Zombie Chow's advantage was just it was so early, and partly the meta. Tar Creeper will be good against Pirate warrior, certainly (though not the silver bullet), but I think its also weak against other decks like Jade.
    Fire Fly is just so terrible. I feel like it would be like a Rogue card that costs 0 and does nothing, just to activate combos. The fact it also still costs 1 makes it also annoying to play. Like if you play Tol'vir Stoneshaper turn 4, you can't drop Firefly with it to play Servant of Kalimos the next turn.
    I admit there should probably be a Tier 2.5 (er, other than the elemental tier), since there are cards I put in Tier 3 that I am on the fence about. But most of the cards there I do feel I am being less picky about it and more just trying to be realistic. Sure, the Hunter Quest works great in the best situation. But in most situations either you never finished it because the match ended (whether you won or lost) or you finished it but the opponent killed you because all you played the first 4 turns were a bunch of 1-drops (and after the 8/8, a 1-drop and a 3/2 each turn).
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 28, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from 1xbenx1 >>
    Quote from 17arkOracle >>
    Quote from
    Quote from 1xbenx1 >>
     
     1 mana less in the early game is pretty relevant for Tar Creeper. No common 2 or 3 drop is able to get through it on it's own. Shredder is definitely the better card, but I meant it more in terms of how splashable I think the card will be. The 3 drop spot is more heavily populated, but I still think we see it a lot, even if the meta slows down.

    7 1-drops is a lot, but stuff like Fire Fly helps a lot. I mean, you were already running probably 4 1-drops in hunter anyway. I do think it's one of the more playable Quests so far.
    My thing is Piloted Shredder had a lot of value, especially with how hard it was to remove, but Tar Creeper doesn't have that. Costing 1-less makes it a little faster, more tempo-oriented, which is good against aggro deck (and I don't doubt this, though I still don't think it's the silver bullet people are hoping for), but helps less against slower decks. Midrange or control decks can stand to lose a 2 or 3 drop.
    True, but it also requires you to draw all of them. And if you run 8 1-drops, you're probably going to try and close out the match pretty early.
    Quote from Krezione >>

     Unite the Murlocs just the best quest...

    I am tempted to move it up. Most of it is just murlocs haven't been a thing since beta. Their synergistic nature means that if your board is kept clear it becomes even harder to establish one, and they're badly vulnerable to AoE. And of course, you run out of steam very quickly. But drawing ~10 of them is insane, and it's easier to get synergy when you have lots of mana to play with. To me it's question of if the quest finishes to late and your opponent will just kill you before it matters, or if they'll have enough control to deal with 10 extra cards.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 27, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on Un'goro so far in my mind

    This tends to be said about every expansion, but I don't think any expansion has ever seen more than 20% of its cards see play.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 27, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from CaptainKaulu >>

    I'll jump into the ring again too. In my MSG tier predictions, my biggest problem was that I went somewhat optimistic about Grimy Goons cards, even though my gut said that those decks would flop. Which they did. So I should have been bolder about trusting my gut, and hedged my bets less. So I'll try to do that this time.

    That, and I'm also feeling pretty pessimistic this time about most cards' viability. So that means I should fit into this thread.

    Meta-Defining

    • Tar Creeper - Pirate Warrior and (hopefully) other aggro will still be strong, and this is the best counter we have to that. Plus synergies in Elementalist decks.
    • Mimic Pod - Just as good as Arcane Intellect IMO, and there's no way Rogue is turning that down, regardless of archetype.
    • Awaken the Makers - Still the best Quest revealed IMO.
    I won't go through everything, since it's a lot of cards and uncertainties (and I've already talked about many of them), but I'll comment on what you mentioned as meta-defining.
    The problem with Tar Creeper is it's just a Sen'jin Shieldmasta that costs 1 less, with a bit of a downside against more midrange or control match-ups. And yes that will make it somewhat good against Pirates, but I think a lot of times they'll just plow through it and keep hitting face, and in any other match-up such as Jade you'll find Tar Creeper is pretty bad. It might be the best counter, but a lot of other taunt cards have come and gone and never been played simply because they don't do enough in general.
    Mimic Pod I do think is good, but Rogue in general is suffering. Especially with Conceal, Azure Drake, and Tomb Pillager rotating out, I don't know if Miracle's really going to stay alive. Also keep in mind the fact the card is duplicated means there's a much higher chance you can't use one or both cards compared to Arcane Intellect.
    Awaken the Makers's big issue is how Deathrattle Priest is going to fair. Priest has also had a lot of issues the past few years, and while Dragon Priest and Reno Priest finally had enough raw value to win out, Deathrattle Priest won't be either of those. Not to mention the loss of Excavated Evil and Entomb. I think Priest is just going to not be good because it's more of a control deck, but with few or combo-oriented control cards.
    Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

    I think:

    - People are sleeping on Sunkeeper Tarim. Who knows if Paly will be playable though.
    - The "elemental package" will probably be splashed in a handful of decks.
    - Priest has gotten some ridiculous cards. I think most of them will see play because most priest cards are trash comparatively.
    - It depends on the meta, but I feel like Tar Creeper is the new piloted shredder.
    - I actually think the Hunter quest makes Hunter playable again.

     Sunkeeper Tarim I was on the fence about, but it does really badly against large boards (since you're probably buffing more than nerfing) and against a single creature or two I don't think it's worth the mana (not to mention you have to have some other way of clearing them). It doesn't help it puts them all out of Consecration range. And yeah, not to mention Paladin...
    Undoubtedly (this also partly why I'm not putting every Elemental card in the Elemental tier, I don't think there's going to be a really "pure" deck).
    True, but I don't know how Priest is going to do. With the loss of Excavated Evil and Entomb, and a lot of the Dragon and Reno package... we'll have to see.
    Given it's a 1 mana less Sen'jin Shieldmasta, I really have my doubts. Piloted Shredder was really sticky and traded well, but midrange and control decks can wait to deal with Tar Creeper.
    7 1-drops though is insane. It's possible I'm not really considering a hyper aggro deck filled with 1-drops, but as it is so many of them are just so terrible, and by the time you finish the quest (if it's as early as possible) your hand is empty and you've probably gotten very low board value. And while the Raptors cycle so you can "cash in" somewhat quickly, I don't think it'll be fast enough.
    Quote from SanityBox >>

    Few points.. You can use Shadow Visions with Elise the Trailblazer to find the pack quickly, so Elise might be pretty good. You put all the paladin cards in the garbage tier, predicting that paladin is garbage, still early to judge. The druid quest might force you to use bad cards like Verdant Longneck so it might see play.

     

     That's true, but it's still a 2-card combo, and it's mostly for card advantage which isn't something you really need quickly. Priests are also probably going to suffer (as I mentioned earlier in this post).
    Lost in the Jungle is Tier 2! I really do think Hydrologist and Dinosize are just bad though, and I don't know if Sunkeeper Tarim or Lightfused Stegodon do enough.
    Of course nothing is final until all cards have been revealed, but I have found things don't move around as much as you might expect.
    Quote from Jaraxle87 >>

    I think Lakarri Sacrifice has a better chance of seeing play than you think.  Discolock decks are strong atm and can achieve the 6 discard requirement, with Clutchmother Zavas being infinite discard fodder it could happen even sooner. Once you get the portal playing it is a bit of tempo loss but the imps it summons can gives you more targets for Bloodfire potion, Demon fire, crystalweaver, and honestly just a few decent bodies on the board.  

    The problem is discard lock is very zoo in nature, and zoo wants tempo early along with the ability to end the game somewhat quickly. Even using the quest on turn 1 can be very bad for zoo, and actually playing the spell is a waste of a turn. You're probably better just ending the game early than having infinite value. And the fact you have to discard 6 cards means it'll take even longer, especially if you accidentally discard your cards that discard other cards early. And they only run a handful of discarding cards (the rest aren't really worth it).
    Control lock is hypothetically an option, but control decks tend to count cards very carefully, so discarding a random card could be devastating. It also isn't helped by how "zoo" most discarding cards and discarding support is.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 24, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from Sudrakon >>

    Rogues uses fan to cycle when their hand is aweful and they don't have anything better to do. It's not in the deck because you plan on using it on an empty board. Also, some (actually a lot) of recent rogue decks don't even run fan. And I honestly fail to see how can Mimic Pod be better than fan, except if there are no aggro decks (and let us not kid ourselves).
    I mean, I really don't think the comparison between grimy goons and discard makes sense honestly. The power of discard cards is bigger, the reward is better and it's more consistent because everytime you fail on discarding the right card the chances of you discarding the right card increases because you have 1 less card in hand. Also, It's not just that Zavas gains +2/+2, it also returns to your hand. It's like you draw a card, and that card gains +2/+2, and that's just broken. Also, Malchezar's Imp is also insanely good and it doesn't rely on RGN to work.
    Oh, and don't forget Ice Lance will be Wild as well as Reno. So yeah, I don't expect Ice Barrier being run in anything and block >>MAYBE<< in some aggro freeze mage without ice lance if that's even remotely viable. And all the other secrets are thrash, so as much as Arcanalogist seems good because it's a 2/3 draw a card, having to run secrets and making your deck bad for that isn't worth. I say you go with your initial guts and throw it at tier 3.

    In the end this is your list and it's just for fun, so just do whatever you think it's going to happen. This pessimistic thing is kinda cool, it's a different view from all the people saying every single new non-complete garbage card is going to be playable. I'm still pretty sure Zavas is going to see play in discard lock and though the deck itself may not be tier 1 I think it's at least going to be viable. Maybe the best Warlock deck because reno is rotating and Warlock doesn't have enough heal to run Control, but still maybe not tier 1.

    Alright, I'm convinced with Clutchmother Zavas. Zoo does run at least a bit of the discard package these days, and with rotation Zoo stands a decent chance of coming back since it's core is pretty good (I might even her to Tier 1 later). I do think people are overestimating her a little bit, but even a 2 cost 4/4 that stops you from discarding a card is probably worth.
    Christ, I forgot about Ice Lance (unless I was remembering subconsciously which is why I forgot about Freeze in the first place :-P). If Emperor Thaurissan wasn't rotating out I would say maybe he could do something, but yeah unless Mage gets some new strong cheap spells Freeze (both versions) does look rather dead.
    Oh, and I get what you're saying about Mimic Pod, though I'm not quite convinced. Tempo Mage was pretty tempo heavy and they still ran Arcane Intellect. I might move down after all the cards are shown though. The loss of Conceal and Tomb Pillager might do in Miracle Rogue, and I don't think Mimic Pod will work in the more, newer aggro versions.
    Quote from TheHoodedClaw >>

    When evaluating cards during the spoiler season I feel that its just best to ignore considerations of which decks will perform well in the new meta and just evaluate cards based on their chance of succeeding within the confines or their own archetype.

    Even once the full set is revealed it is damn tricky to accurately anticipate the upcoming metagame. With information on only 34 out of 135 cards, it is an exercise in futility.

    Thus, evaluating Clutchmother Zavas as Tier 3 based upon an assumption that Discard decks won't feature meaningfully in the metagame is rash. The loss of Dark Peddler is a significant knock but Blizzard are clearly pushing discard so one would be naïve write it off at this stage. Clutchmother's power level within its own archetype is pretty obscene (ignore the +2/+2 thing and just consider that it returns to hand when discarded) so I would strongly advise moving her to Tier 2 or Tier 1.

    Enough people here are focusing upon your placement of Clutchmother Zavas that you should reconsider.

     I don't entirely disagree, because the metagame is a very tricky thing, but it also seems disingenuous to ignore decks completely. Dispatch Kodo would be an amazing card in Handbuff Hunter, but since Handbuff Hunters never really became a thing the card's pretty pointless. There's also a lot of "this card would be amazing in so-and-so's control deck" but its unfair to say you're really ever going to see those cards, because unless they get a bunch of other control cards it's unlikely to happen. (And it's true I could wait until all 135 cards are out, but it does make it much harder to discuss them.)
    I think I've come to agree with people's views on Discard lock. I've put her in Tier 2 for now, and might move her up later. (I will say though there are sometimes cards that everyone loves but turn out to be dead on arrival. I don't think she's one, but I do think people are envisioning the dream with her when she's probably more like Edwin VanCleef, where even a 4/4's fine.)
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 24, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from moshi_mosh >>

    Arcanologist isn't necessarily a card only for secret mage though. All u need is 1 secret and you have an extremely effective draw. I mean, which mage exactly is it that doesn't want ice block up asap?

     *Ah-hrm* I'll admit, I haven't seen freeze mage (or its aggro cousin) in so long I sort of forgot it was a deck. I've moved Arcanologist up to Tier 2.
    Quote from ShotgunSoul >>

    The Troll's Tier Guide to Un'Goro.

    (Checks the poster's previous Old Gods predictions)

    Sure, nobody ever played those 4-mana 7-7 cards. Yep. Accurate.

     Hey man, you can't guess them all. Fel Reaver was pretty meh at the time, and I ended up being really sloppy with the last batch of cards revealed. Predictions aside, I still contend the card is really overrated, and the despite its meme power it shouldn't be surprising that's been run less and less.
    Quote from KDCHS >>

    Hold on, I didn't read any of OP's replies previously but I thought the title made this thread somewhat of a "joke". With only 8 cards that he thinks will even see play out of that list, I thought it was obvious. But now reading through some of your comments, it seems that OP is actually quite seriously about this list. Can we all just go back in time and pretend what I just posted was OP's intention?

    EDIT: Let's be serious, even pros can't predict what a good card is in the upcoming metas. I'd also like to add as a retired Yugioh player, card draw and deck thinning is one of the best things for a deck. It not only gives you a piece you may need to curve or just play, but it increases the chance of you drawing the necessary cards to win the game. That's why patches is so good (on top of the other 100 factors). This is why I think Arcanologist is easily a tier 1-2 card and why people are seriously under valuing Tol'vir Warden.

     If you look at most of the expansions, you'll probably find that only about 20% of the cards are ever run.
    The thing with Patches the Pirate is that it's very unlikely you'll end up drawing it, since it's 1 out of 40 cards and every pirate pulls it out. But with Arcanologist, there's a pretty good chance (nearish to 50%) that you'll draw your secret first. And hard drawing that secret can be pretty terrible. Now Mad Scientist and Mysterious Challenger didn't have that problem, but I think they're effects were just so amazing it was fine. I don't think that with Arcanologist.
    But admittedly I forgot about the freeze versions of Mage, and have moved Arcanologist to Tier 2 accordingly.
    Quote from Sudrakon >>

    I'm honestly sad about the feedback you're receiving. I recently post something in a random comment of a new card (I think shadow visions), but people here just overhype every single card that it's not obviously thrash and if you try to argue why a card is bad >>most<< (not all, but 80%?) of them just insult you for no reason.
    Ok, so you predicted some cards wrong on Old Gods, but what people forget you put some cards that thought to be good or even great on bad tiers ans they turned out to be bad. TBH I think you're more accurate than at least 90% of people, who just say everything is good.

    On the current list: I don't agree with all of them but it seems pretty good overall. I actually don't think Mimic Pod is very good. It's ok, but I still think the fact you don't get variety only hurts you, in every type of deck. and rogues actually don't like spending 3 mana and doing nothing on the board...
    Also, Volcano. I mean, I agree it's good but probably not tier 1 because it's a shaman card. Warriors would love to play that over Brawl (if control warrior ever comes back). Priests also. But I don't see a control shaman honestly. MAYBE with the new cards (the new epic and legendary are pretty good), but I'm still pessimist about that. And I don't think it's good in midrange (even jade) because you remove your own board too and you don't plan on being losing the board on turn 5 as midrange shaman anyways. It's like why Tempo Warrior didn't run Brawl and Dragon Priests run Nova instead of Excavated (if even any of them) back in the day.
    Finally, I think you're underestimating discard zoo. Sure Zoo is dead now, but that's because they gained >>nothing<< from gadgetzan while insanely powered cards were introduced. In Karazhan Discard Zoo was fine, and in Old Gods Zoo (not discard) was actually really good. What I'm trying to say is, a lot of cards are rotating out, zoo is bad now but doesn't lose much (outside of Imp Gang Boss) and Zavas is actually insane. What you have to understand is yes the discard is random, but discard zoo doesn't have a lot of cards in hand anyways and there's even a new card that discard (Lakkari Felhound, which I think is also good but only good) . You have too keep in mind we still have Silverware Golem and Malchezar's Imp, and with Zavas we're stacking incredibly good discard mechanics (when they happen), which increases the probability it happens.

    All in all, I really admire the patience you have with people by the way you answer them when most of them are just rude to you. Don't let them discourage you! I said it before, but your guesses are a lot more accurate than most of the people here.

    Rogues do use Fan of Knives to cycle, and Mimic Pod is leagues better in that regard. You can also use it with Preparation. I think it'll be okay enough to run, but we'll have to see. Duplicating a bad card in your deck too could be devastating.
    Volcano being Tier 1 has a lot more to do with Shaman being overall good than Volcano being spectacular really. I can picture a lot of different Shamans deck that would both be good and use it. I have a hard time picturing a great Priest deck, for example, and therefore put a lot of Priest cards in tier 2.
    But with rotation... I'll give you Shamans might really start suffering. I'll think about it.
    Discard lock, I'll admit, is very close to playable, and these cards might be enough for it. But like with Grimy Goons, the randomness can be damning, and early on in the game you can very easily 'accidentally' discard the wrong card. And getting the right 'empty' hand can be surprisingly difficult. You don't have to go full on discard of course, but then the synergy cards suffer. Even discarding Clutchmother Zavas once with Doomguard on turn 5, just nets you a 4/4 for 2 on turn 6. It's probably not worth the effort of holding her, for a zoo-like deck that wants lots of options.
    Really though I just think the inconsistency is going to turn people off, meaning even if the deck is good it won't be good "enough".
    Quote from Wonderbuster >>
    Quote from 17arkOracle >>
    Quote from hillandder >>
    Quote from Purpenflurb >>
    There's more than one Secret that can be used by Mage. How do you know for sure that the Mage did not use Arcanologist to pull Counterspell, Ice Block, Ice Barrier or Vaporize?
     Counterspell and Vaporize just aren't very good, unfortunately, and probably aren't worth the 3 mana.
    I have moved Arcanologist up though, in part due to Freeze Mage (and its aggro version).
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 23, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from KDCHS >>

    Just for fun, you should also link your previous guide from WOG so we can compare. See how pessimistic we should actually be.

     Certainly!
    My biggest shame is probably think Fandral Staghelm was going to be bad, along with Flamewreathed Faceless (though Flamewreathed was never quite as good as people made it out to be). A few others there are definitely underrated too, like Ravaging Ghoul.
    But I also overrated a few cards, like Journey Below and Master of Evolution. I was also convinced we would need replacements for some of the cards rotating out, so Cult Apothecary and Squirming Tentacle were pretty high.
    A lot of tier 2 was just highly dependent on what decks showed up. Like Mark of Y'Shaarj would be good for Beast Druid, but it never became a thing, while Bloodsail Cultist is good for Pirate Warriors, which did. (Though some like Thing from Below were good regardless.)
    Overall though, I don't think the amount of cards for each tier was off.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 23, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from hillandder >>

    Arcanalogist don't will be played? 

     

     The problem with Mage secrets is it's hard to get enough value out of them to justify playing them. You can play Mirror Entity turn 3, but if they see around it and play 1 or 2 cost card it can be easily wasted.
    Quote from Purpenflurb >>

    Not only are you under-valuing some cards... you have definitely over-rated volcano and elise trailblazer.  Elise is probably a pretty good greedy card, sure, but is that something you need?  And volcano is a pretty strong board clear, but you also have to be playing a deck that doesn't really plan on having board.

    I would say that about half of your "won't see play" tier could very easily be good.  But glacial shard in particular is definitely far from trash tier.  It is most likely the best neutral 1-drop in the game, it has great combos in warlock/mage, and it can pretty easily fit into a lot of aggressive decks.

     You can (sometimes) trade in your cards, at least. I don't necessarily think the Tier 1 cards are "great" merely "playable".
    I concede Elise the Trailblazer though. I think she'll see play, but like, eventually. After a couple expansions have replaced the destruction we've lost and some kind of control deck can be cobbled together.
    Glacial Shard does allow you to trade I'll grant, but for tempo/zoo decks the best way to control trading is just to establish and keep an early board (though I'll try not to write it off entirely at least).
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 23, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

    Your crazy if you don't think Shadow Visions will see use in every Priest deck.

    It has the same issue a lot of "draw 1" cards have, which is you might as well just run that card instead. Yes, you can't have 2 Shadow Word: Pain or 2 Shadow Word: Death, but you can say include a Smite, and you don't have to pay to draw it.
    On further consideration, actually, I do think you're right, and that it will be run in Control/Reno Priest. Especially with the loss of a lot of good destruction from LoE. The problem is I don't think Control/Reno Priest will be able succeed, in part because of that loss, and partly because of strong tempo and aggro decks, and Jade decks.
    Quote from HomoHotLips >>

    I feel like you're underestimating some of the cards. For starters if Awaken the Makers sees play - Tortollan Shellraiser will almost certainly be included in it and Shadow Visions has some strong potential in a control priest build - especially one with Elise the Trailblazer (think about just tutoring up those extra packs!).

    The murloc cards, discard-lock cards, and secret mage cards could be good, but we'll need to see if there's any more support for those archetypes in the set and how the rotations affect the meta. 

    And while I agree with the tier it's in, you bet your butt I'm going to try my hardest to make The Caverns Below work.

    Tortollan Shellraiser's biggest advantage I think, is making sure you don't die the turn you play N'Zoth, the Corruptor! But I'll admit, I'm cheating the list and hedging my bets with some of these decks by listing only the best cards in Tier 2. Like if Murloc decks see play Primalfin Lookout probably and if they don't Gentle Megasaur won't. It's really hard to say with some of them.
    Secret Mage just suffers from being like a late-game tempo deck. Like all the secrets give you amazing tempo, but horrible value unless it's already late game.
    Quote from EndlessMike >>

    I think you are wildly optimistic about Volcano. The card costs 5 mana!

    Also, I think there's no way Mimic Pod doesn't see play. I have no idea if the Rogue quest gets into the meta at all, but this card seems like it would be good in almost any Rogue deck. It's essentially an Arcane Intellect, but better for combo decks. (Worse in other decks, of course.)

    Volcano strikes me as a good replacement for Elemental Destruction which reliably sees play, and the fact it can distribute itself evenly means it can handle lots of board "shapes".
    I think you're actually right about Mimic Pod. I instantly snubbed it just because of how horrible Thistle Tea was, but it probably will work well in Miracle.
    Quote from eddiefiv >>

    Tar Creeper, Tortollan Shellraiser, Arcanologist and Lakkari Felhound should be in Tier 2.  If you think the meta is going to slow down enough for Elise the Trailblazer then its definitely going to be slow enough for these.

     I actually think most of those cards are better in a faster meta, not a slower one (none really have good value, but they're good at stopping faster decks - with the exception of Arcanologist). Elise the Trailblazer is more because even in the current meta Reno decks have been able to play cards like Trailblazer, but granted they're going away and you're probably right that Control decks aren't going to start popping up.
    (Though even in a faster meta I feel like those cards just don't do enough.)
    Quote from Agithore >>
    Quote from 17arkOracle >>

    Tier 2.5. Will See Play if Elemental Decks See Play
    Cards that will appear regularly in Elemental decks. Currently I am guessing that Elemental decks will not be in the meta (they remind me C'Thun decks; a good strong curve but without that extra brokenness), but even a single card can change that. Either way I figured they warrant their own tier.

     Since when did C'thun decks have a strong curve? Sure, you had the ability to pop out a minion on each turn, but most if not all of the minions were just trash Vanilla minions that have no chance of actually competing with what your opponent puts up. This is why C'Thun failed, because your board state would be so far behind by the time you actually played him that the entire strategy wouldn't matter. If we see Elementals being a bit more dynamic than that (ie: Not just Vanilla stats with a Divine Shield or Taunt added), then there is no comparison of the two.
     Okay, that is a fair point. I still might argue how "dynamic" they really are, but you certainly do get the extra value with them when you play them and not when you play one specific card. It's hard to say right now since so few have been released, but I'll withhold judgement.
    Quote from HookUpWithMe >>

    How come you value volcano as tier 1 (5 mana + 2 overload)

    I mentioned it earlier in this post, but it's a good replacement for Elemental Destruction which has showed up in decks like Jade Shaman to catch back up. 15 damage is enough to wipe a hefty board (if you have nothing) and at that point they might not have much left.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • 17arkOracle's avatar

    0

    Mar 23, 2017
    17arkOracle posted a message on The Pessimist's Tier Guide to Un'Goro
    Quote from shafty_jr >>

    Put Geyser, Fly, and Shard in Elemental section

    While Elementals, I have a hard time seeing them actually being run in Elemental decks (especially Glacial Shard). I don't think Fire Fly gives enough value to warrant its ability to activate your Elementals twice (a 1/2 is just terrible). Flame Geyser suffers the same problem, but it did occur to me you can at least play it into Tol'vir Stoneshaper, so I'll move it up.
    Quote from Slycer93 >>

    As soon as I saw Clutmother Zavas and Tar Creeper in tier 3  I gave up on this tier list.

     Both of them I was seriously on the fence about.
    The problem with Clutchmother Zavas is I have a really hard time seeing discard lock succeeding. It suffers from the Grimy Goons problem of horrible inconsistency, and forces Warlocks to tap way earlier then they'd like. They also tend to be rather Zoo-like, and even Zoo is doing pretty poorly these days. Clutchmother also takes up hand space if you draw her early (since playing her as a 2/2 is horrible), is bad if you draw her late, and even if you do player her late game after discarding cards by then a big minion is easier to deal with and there's a higher chance your wasting mana, reducing her "big stats for cheap cost" effect. I do 100% agree she will be run in discard lock decks, though. I just don't think they'll come close to meta.
    Tar Creeper suffers just from being really bad in non-aggro match-ups. Second-Rate Bruiser for example is at least good in more mid-range control match-ups, since you can use him to trade or at least threaten a little bit of damage. But Creeper can't do either, and the enemy can very easily just let it sit. Sen'jin Shieldmasta too is a very similar, and he isn't run at all.
    Posted in: Card Discussion
  • To post a comment, please login or register a new account.