Hearthpwn

Quote from Poghy >>

If your tier 1 is only about cards that making a currently tier 1 deck better, I think it should only include Lord Godfrey and Dark Possession.

IMO Countess Ashmore is overrated, and right now I dont see how she makes any deck better. You can build around her, but that not neccessarily makes your deck better. Maybe Im wrong about this, but I havent seen a solid theorycraft deck so far that makes good use of her.

Speaking of theorycraft decks: Shudderwock. You have these subdivisions in Tier 2, and I think the shaman legendary should have its own. I have seen some very promising theorycrafts about this new archetype. If the Shudder deck will work, these cards will be certainly in it:

Lifedrinker: Its an overcosted Earthen Ring Farseer in the deck in itself, but this battlecry will be the finisher, and the body and the heal will help stalling. Its a bad (but not horrible) card in itself, but its essential in the deck. Tier 2.

Sandbinder: Unlike the previous card, this is decent in itself. Its also essential to find your combo pieces. Tier 2.

Witchwood Piper could be also included in the deck but Im not 100% sure it will stay in the mostly refined version. The same goes for Blazing Invocation.

There is also 1 card that seems like the sleeper of the set: Night Prowler. Its condition is pretty easy to fulfill, and a 4 mana 6/6 is super good. Its not as strong as the pre-nerf Corridor Creeper, but much better than the nerfed one.

 

It really depends on how easy they are to get.

if they start handing them out for free again, I’ll be a little miffed. But if it’s something like costing 2,000 gold or whatever, I’m fine with that since few enough people will do it allowing the old ones to retain their exclusivity.

(Honestly, given how many card backs there are, I’m glad they’re doing something to allow new players to get them.)

Chameleos is going to end up being awful and seeing next to no play.

Quote from lennon255 >>

 

Quote from 17arkOracle >>

 

Quote from lennon255 >>

 

 

 

Swift Messenger: I don't think Swift Messenger will be good because I don't think Rush Warrior will be good. Think about its matchups, it's not exactly favored against much. 

Ravencaller: Your average 1 drop is not a good card, especially when the earliest you can play it is turn 4 and you get it from playing a 3 drop with meh 1 drop stats. I think Ravencaller will see some use in Zoo early on and will not perform very well in it.

Chameleos: Fair enough.

Cheap Shot: I heard people say similar things about Forbidden Flame. Forbidden Flame was useful to have as a flexible removal tool. I realize that I'm comparing cards for two different classes but hear me out. Cheap Shot isn't as flexible with its cost as it can only use mana 2 at a time, but it can spread damage across multiple minions and benefits massively from spell damage. I think this card is better than you give it credit for specifically because Rogue already has plenty of other good spells that they don't mind putting int their decks to begin with (Eviscerate, Fan of Knives, Backstab). This could make it worthwhile to run Bloodmage Thalnos or maybe even Tainted Zealot for consistency. Vilespine Slayer is not a good comparison.

Hidden Wisdom: What exactly are you playing against that your opponents NEVER play 3 cards in one turn for the entire match? I don't believe you.

Nightmare Matriarch: It's a big dragon with good stats that match up well against Priests and Warlocks, which are the two current strongest classes. Worst case scenario this eats a Siphon Soul, Mind Control, Hex, or Execute. Execute is a warrior card and warriors are losing just about everything that matters for their non-recruit decks in the rotation so I don't think it's really worth considering your match up against the worst class of the expansion. Siphon Soul means there's one less Siphon Soul to target Ysera and with Blastcrystal Potion leaving standard, Warlock is going to have a hell of a time taking her down. Warlock has historically had a bad time against Ysera. Mind Control is actually rather bad for you as priest doesn't have many other answers for Nightmare Matriarch post rotation. Hex is a bad time but I don't think this is worth considering either since once people figure out the right list for it Shaman is probably going to have a 200% winrate against every kind of priest anyway, I'll add the list after I'm finished steamrolling my way to legend as Shaman in a few days. 

Pick Pocket: No one runs sprint because it's not worth running a 7 mana draw 4 in a meta where you can have Coldlight Oracle and Elven Minstrel in the same deck. That was a really bad argument against this card's viability and you know it. Also, Pick Pocket can generate up to 5 cards for 1 deck slot. On average those cards won't be very good but it's easy value generation and it works with Tess Greymane. The real weakness of this card is how bad Shaman cards can be for other classes that can't handle the overload.

Witching Hour: Get a Charged Devilsaur to die, summon it back with Witching Hour (3 mana) and smash face, Carnivorous Cube that shit (5 mana), Naturalize the Cube (1 mana) and smash face for 14 more. It requires the tiniest bit of set-up in getting your devilsaur killed but you can use Silver Vanguard to recruit it which is slightly cheaper and means you don't need to actually draw it. It's worth noting that if you recruit the Devilsaur with 9 mana already you can deal 28 damage instead of 21 by hitting face with the recruited Devilsaur before you cube it and after cubing it using Witching Hour to summon another. And before you say anything about the use of Naturalize, it doesn't matter how many cards your opponent has when they're dead. EDIT: I just noticed that in my previous post I miss-clicked 8 instead of 9 when stating the mana cost. My bad.

Quote from lennon255 >>

I guess this is how you can tell someone put absolutely no thought into making a tier list.

Swift messenger is not a good card. What are you thinking?

Ravencaller is above Witching Hour. Now THAT's funny.

Chameleos offers scouting every turn and selective use of one of whatever the fuck you want from your opponent's hand. I don't think it's as good as many others do but it's certainly not bad.

Cheap Shot is sort of removal. I can understand where you're coming from but I don't feel it quite deserves its placement.

Hidden Wisdom draws 2 cards. The only other cards that draw 2 cards that never saw play were Sense Demons and Fight Promoter, and both of those had horrible downsides that made them inconsistent in power. Hidden Wisdom will likely be a 1 of in every paladin deck a week from now and I have no fucking idea how you could think otherwise with how easy its requirement is to fulfill.

Nightscale Matriarch is a big dude that requires an immediate answer or it spirals out of control. It's a win more card and that's the only reason I can think of as to why you think it's bad, but it also happens to be good on an empty board so...

Pick Pocket can give you up to 5 cards for 1 deck slot. Its far from broken but I'd never call it useless.

Vivid Nightmare is basically a better Mirage Caller effect without a body attached. You might actually be right about this one.

Witching Hour enables a 21 damage 3 card combo that costs 8 mana that can be performed twice per game. Honestly this list lost all credibility to me the moment I saw you call this card bad. 

Your list is trash, yo.

Quote from RobotNinja235542 >>

Has your list changed at all since the reveal stream?

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

Druid of the Claw was good though. 4/6 Taunt was fine.

3-mana 2/4 Taunt is bad. 3-mana 4/2 Rush is bad.

Quote from Poghy >>

I agree with a lot. but also disagree with some. Alright, time for a wall of text.

Bogshaper: Even is Hagatha shaman becomes a thing, I wouldnt include this card in it. Too slow, hard to combo with, and payout is nothing special. Tier 3.

Black Cat, Gloomstag, Murkspark Eel: The whole even/odd mechanic will only work in a few classes. IMO mage, druid and shaman are not one of those classes. Tier 3.

Face Collector: It belongs to the same wild deck as the other rogue legendary. Tier 3.

Cursed Castaway: Just a fair card, nothing special. Tier 2.5 or Tier 3.

Toki, Time-Tinker: Meme card, Tier 3.

Azalina Soulthief: A neutral divine favor has too much potential to put it in the lowest tier. Tier 2.5.

Chameleos: If control priest will be a deck after rotation, this is an auto-include. I think the card is super good, but there might not be a deck for it in this expansion. Tier 2.

Blackwald Pixie: Great support for odd decks. Tier 2.5.

Dire Frenzy: Way too much combo potential. Tier 2.

Nightmare Amalgam: In itself its not a big deal, but dragon priests are in desperate need for an activator, and its OK to play a dragon spider tank in that deck. Tier 2.5.

Phantom Militia: The new best friend of the warrior quest. Tier 2.

Toxmonger: Im not sure if there will be a competitive deck for it, but it has potential. Tier 2.5.

Witching Hour: Its a way to cheat out big minions for cheap. There are a lot of theorycrafts about this card, like the Charged Devilsaur OTK or the Hadronox uber value deck. Tier 2.

Witchwood Grizzly: Great anti-aggro tool. Tier 2.5.

Witchwood Piper: Excellent tutor card. Exodia mage and some of the new decks will love it. Tier 2.

Thats it for now, 4 more hours until the reveal stream, Im kinda hyped for it.

Quote from Harmonius >>

Your placement of Wing Blast is incredibly the only choice I took umbrage with (as a pessimist) lol. 

Quote from Cheeky_Hamster >>

I mostly agree, apart from Chameleos (fantastic card) and Nightmare Amalgam (great for every tribe deck). Additionally as I'm sure you are aware lots of the tier 2.5-3 cards will see play not because they are strong in themselves but because in combination with other cards they are really good (like Witchwood Grizzly and Witchwood Piper)

Quote from Zpbridge >>

So one card of the whole 135 will definitely see play in the upcoming meta? Nope, it doesn't work like that.

 

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

I'll have a full set review that will go up after the live stream. But before that, I'll raise a few points with you.

Your tier 1 list is far too small. There are a number of very good cards in this set. At the very least, Countess Ashmore is a tier 1 card.

Gloom Stag is horrible.
Forest Guide and Druid of the Scythe are horrible.
Wing Blast is excellent.

Quote from lunarknight9 >>

Well educated ratings however I have some changes

forest guide should be tier 3

wing blast tier 2 

Duskbat tier3 

cursed castaway tier 3

the glass knight tier 2

dollmaster dorian tier 3

Wanted! Tier 2

warpath tier 2

Witching hour tier 2.5

witchwood grizzly tier 2

 

Updated the list before the big release tomorrow. Most of the cards ended up in Tier 3, though a few landed themselves in Tiers 2/2.5. I also subdivided Tier 2 a bit, so you can see my thoughts in where the card might end up (and we'll have to wait and see if those decks are trash or not).

Quote from CookieFamous >>

My suggestions are as follows:

• Azalina Soulthief ↑↑ (T2) - You can refill your hand in a pinch, or steal the enemy's win condition if you time it well.
• Glinda Crowskin (Will see play in Wild, however.) ↑ (T2.5) If there is some high-attack, low-cost cards available, with proper refill of the hand, Rush might become the Hunter AOE.
• Phantom Militia ↑ (T2.5) It's not as bad as it seems.
• Vivid Nightmare ↑ (T2.5) This card has more to it than it seems at first. Also very good in an odd-deck, where you can heal the minion for 4 instantly.

 

Quote from tictactucroc >>

Phantom militia will at the very least see play in Quest warrior and Baku warrior for sure. These 2 decks might actually turn out to be the same deck.

I think I've read the devs saying that they want to pull quest warrior back in the meta. Not sure about that tho, but the phantom militia is kind of a proof of concept already.

Also, depending on what new echo cards are coming, phantom militia might turn out to be the best synergy card in the entire game with Hagatha. And I'm confident they made sure internally that Hagatha would see at least SOME play, somewhere. 

So I'd put phantom militia into tier 1 category, but I guess it belongs to the optimistic tier guide.

Edit (more thoughts) :

Rebuke won't be dead against mirror, call to arms is a thing and even a turn 3 Rebuke might outright win you the game in the right circumstances.

Houndmaster shaw enables Midrange/Recruit Hunter so hard, I still fail to see why people keep saying things about control hunter memes when in fact this is a simple, strong tempo card that works perfectly with guild recruiter, Oakheart and Kathrena. 

Quote from Kovachut >>

Quote from 17arkOracle >>

My opinion:

- Baku ↑ (T1) - I would easily place him in the tier 1 spot. I read what you said about Baku/Genn, but Control Warrior will certainly make the cut imho. One more removal/early game weapon and the deck is done.

- Face Collector ↓ (T2.5) - For me the legendary is really on the edge between being useful and hard to include. If we look at him, he is a 3 mana pseudo card draw and normally the legendaries have a high power level, so we get to "draw" good cards. But the question is - in what kind of a deck would we want to include him? I'm not pessimistic about his usefulness, but just really curious.

- Militia Commander ↓ (T3) - This card just looks to me like an arena one. I have never seen warrior include Charge, just because they wanted to trade off a minion from their hand into the opponent's board. It's true, that the warrior spell is bad on its own, but the Commander just doesn't feel like a constructed card. She doesn't enable late-game value, she doesn't clear a whole board and in aggro decks she is also weak, as she can't hit the face and she losses her attack.

- Genn Greymane ↑ (T2) - Meh, it all depends on how strong Genn Paladin will turn out to be. That deck has a lot of good even cost cards, so we will see.

- Rebuke ↑ (T1) - And I'm not overreacting. This card is just so good against everything spell based - AoEs, Heals, draws, minion summoning spells - cheap and you can include more of these in your deck as a reliable tech against control decks. Seriously, why are people underestimating it? You don't really care about having a 5/5 body - only in slower mid-range decks. But if you can make a threatening body on your own, then squeezing in a cheap spell will be super easy to fulfill. 

- Glinda Crowskin ↑ (T2) or (T2.5), if you wish - Dunno mate, there is just a lot of combo potential for her. True, that we can only speculate on how powerful she can be, until we see the rest of the cards, but giving your minions echo is sometimes really powerful. For now I can think of Gnomeferatu (in standard). With more good cheap minions this can become attractive and she also has a nice stat distribution, making her more durable than offensive.

- Nightmare Amalgam ↑ (T2) - Dunno for Dragon Priest, but I would definitely put this in Elemental shaman. Also, if shaman gets more totem synergies, then this is also an attractive minion there. Shaman always needed early game minions - while this isn't insane, it's still a nice inclusion.

- Phantom Militia ↑ (T2.5) - Meh, I feel, that this isn't an extremely bad card as some other ones. Still hard to include, but not as bad as a 7 mana 3/3 replace your hand.

- Vivid Nightmare ↑ (T2.5) or (T2) - Combo potential. I'm also hardly seeing it in Priest atm, but there is a possibility for a deck with Radiant Elementals to show up. But until then, I wouldn't have anything against putting this in the tier 2.5 spot. 

- Warpath ↑ (T2.5) or (T2) - This card just says to me "Warrior will get more enrage or hurt-minions synergies". I perfectly understand, that this is weaker than Defile, but warrior is the only class, which can make it better, if they get more good cards like Execute or a reprint of Sleep with the Fishes.

- Witchwood Apple ↑ (T2) ot (T2.5)- A card for token dudu imho (or a variation of that deck). While it looks bad that you don't get to summon them right away (<>Living Mana), this is a nice "draw", because you are getting a handful of minions in your hand. I kinda see this card as Drygulch Jailor - yes, the dudes are cheaper and paladin has more synergies with them, but dudu can also find good ways to utilize the bodies. It all depends whether it will get more board buffing spells. If not - then yeah - unplayable in standard, not to mention in wild too, because the decks there are already refined.

Inb4 Like in every other thread or post of mine, I will say, that we need to see the full card set from the Witchwood expansion, so that we can evaluate the cards better. I wouldn't mind to admit being wrong with my evaluations, but for now some of the cards seem to have potential to be played.

Quote from Draco_Cracona >>

Shaw is a very good card, without a deck currently. Warpath should be similar, IMO, the flexibility really helps it.

Quote from tictactucroc >>

Rotten applebaum being tier 1 is the most optimistic thing I've ever read this month. 

Quote from Fedes94 >>

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Quote from DoubleSummon >>

bad list.. the applebum is terrible, the tokens cost 2..

I disagree with almost all your placements.

So the past couple years I did a guide to the expansion released right before rotation, taking a good (sometimes) close look at the cards coming out. And while admittedly I screwed up with a few cards in Un'Goro, I'm hoping to remember the lessons I learned moving forward. (Even then my accuracy isn't all that bad, the majority of cards did end up not seeing play after all.)

Tier 1. Will See Play
Cards that can make it into a meta-deck.

• Countess Ashmore
• Lord Godfrey

Tier 2. Might See Play
Good cards, but cards that's decks may or may not see play.

• Lady in White
• Shudderwock
• Arcane Keysmith
• Bellringer Sentry
• Blink Fox
• Coffin Crasher
• Duskbat
• Earthen Might
• Ferocious Howl
• Hench-Clan Thug
• Voodoo Doll
• Witch's Apprentice
• Witchwood Grizzly
• Elemental Minion Mage
• Archmage Arugal
• Bonfire Elemental
• Book of Specters
• Odd/Even
• Baku the Mooneater
• Genn Greymane
• Black Cat
• Rush/Tempo Warrior
• Darius Crowley
• Militia Commander
• Rabid Worgen
• Town Crier
• Woodcutter's Axe

Tier 2.5. Will Probably Not See Play
Bad cards, but not quite as bad as the bad cards.

• Face Collector
• Hagatha the Witch
• Houndmaster Shaw
• The Glass Knight
• Bogshaper
• Cursed Castaway
• Dark Possession
• Deadly Arsenal
• Gloom Stag
• Holy Water
• Lifedrinker
• Mossy Horror
• Murkspark Eel
• Ratcatcher
• Rebuke
• Rotten Applebaum
• Sandbinder
• Scaleworm
• Wing Blast
• Witching Hour
• Witchwood Piper

Tier 3. Will Not See Play
The bad cards. The REALLY bad cards.

• Azalina Soulthief
• Blackhowl Gunspire
• Chameleos
• Dollmaster Dorian
• Duskfallen Aviana
• Emeriss
• Glinda Crowskin (Will see play in Wild, however.)
• Prince Liam
• Splintergraft
• Tess Greymane (Maybe in Wild, though.)
• Toki, Time-Tinker
• Baleful Banker
• Bewitched Guardian
• Blackwald Pixie
• Blazing Invocation
• Blood Witch
• Carrion Drake
• Cathedral Gargoyle
• Cauldron Elemental
• Cheap Shot
• Chief Inspector
• Cinderstorm
• Clockwork Automaton
• Curio Collector
• Curse of Weakness
• Cutthroat Buccaneer
• Darkmire Moonkin
• Deathweb Spider
• Deranged Doctor
• Dire Frenzy
• Divine Hymn
• Druid of the Scythe
• Duskhaven Hunter
• Felsoul Inquisitor
• Festeroot Hulk
• Fiendish Circle
• Forest Guide
• Furious Ettin
• Ghost Light Angler
• Ghostly Charger
• Gilnean Royal Guard
• Glitter Moth
• Hidden Wisdom
• Hunting Mastiff
• Lost Spirit
• Mad Hatter
• Marsh Drake
• Mistwraith
• Muck Hunter
• Night Prowler
• Nightmare Amalgam
• Nightscale Matriarch
• Paragon of Light
• Phantom Militia
• Pick Pocket
• Pumpkin Peasant
• Quartz Elemental
• Rat Trap
• Ravencaller
• Redband Wasp
• Silver Sword
• Snap Freeze
• Sound the Bells!
• Spectral Cutlass
• Spellshifter
• Splitting Festeroot
• Squashling
• Swamp Dragon Egg
• Swamp Leech
• Swift Messenger
• Tanglefur Mystic
• Totem Cruncher
• Toxmonger
• Unpowered Steambot
• Vex Crow
• Vicious Scalehide
• Vilebrood Skitterer
• Vivid Nightmare
• Walnut Sprite
• WANTED!
• Warpath
• Wispering Woods
• Witch's Cauldron
• Witchwood Apple
• Witchwood Imp
• Worgen Abomination
• Wyrmguard
• Zap!

It depends a lot on your rank. Firebat probably isn't rank 15 after all.

People can have the same name, since the battletag system differentiates by ID (which gets cut off in game) so it isn't a guarantee. How many people might choose the name Firebat is hard to say too, people could be inspired by the streamer or just like fire and bats. Them not responding is a good sign that it might be them, though. And it is entirely possible to fight a pro/streamer. I fought Trump once in Brawl, and was able to confirm it when he posted the video on youTube.

They're talking about his opening quote, "In the Grand Tournament, you win or you die," which is based on the Game of Thrones quote.

His flavor text does reference Monty Python, which The Black Knight as a card also references (or at least the original dungeon boss from Wrath of the Lich King did).

Quote from SithLordOfSnark >>

Quote from Luckpwnskill >>

Still payed $ for the ticket only for the card :x

 That's your own stupidity. Why pay money just for a card you got for free anyway?