There have been metas where there was a little less aggro but let's be real here. The only non-aggro timeline was during Knights when DKs and especially Spreading Plague Druids made aggro completely unplayable.
Aggro will always be here because HS is a tempo game and people want to be efficient (although that's not really important anymore with the Rewards Track). You would have to make Warrior and Priest extremely strong to actually get good anti-aggro metas or release cards that are DK level of powerful and provide basically infinite resources.
Also, there is too much draw for too cheap, which always favours aggro decks.
Well, yeah they nerfed watchposts - these were going to be the basis of slower, but minion based meta - hell they were like the most viable usable neutral defensive tools for mid-range decks since ..i dunno, like sludge belcher or something - and now they are deleted.
Mid-range decks could have coped with Tickatus fine, and the posts help deal with hunters too - and they could have kept pace with Mage well enough post lunacy nerf. Rogue lost penflinger so the Posts wouldn't have been all that OP in rogue.
I do not understand the nerf for them and the game I am imagining right now is a lot better with them in it, and a lot shittier without.
This! Midrange decks that should actually be viable against control are non-existent. Also deathrattle decks are good against control. But I see only hyper-aggro or OTK in wild. (or some super greedy warlock with tickatus, gnomeferatus etc.)
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"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
Well, people always complain about the "aggro meta" but literally in every meta has a lot of aggro. It just makes sense, it's the fastest to play, people like winning fast and if you lose it's better to not waste as much time. Even when Spreading PlagueCard Name, was at 5 mana there was some form of aggro, and that card literally just shut down anything that was even close to aggro.
The very fact that one assumes that 'we are back to an aggro meta' implies the success of devs in making believe they are after a balanced and a diverse meta. Of course the are very good in deception but the target audience knows very well they'll be served in the end.
That's why Illusia and Hysteria.were nerfed silently as they had anti-aggro/ anti-aggression stats. Remember, Blizzard has no need for balance as the target audience has no need for self respect.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Aggro is cheap and fast, it will always be the most popular archetype, it's been like that since the first iteration of Face Hunter back in 2014, you should know this already.
Tickatus sucks and is bad design, but he's not the reason the meta is dominated by aggro. The issue is that Blizzard keeps developing aggro/tempo tools and doesn't create enough board clear / AoE for reactive strategies to keep up. And one of the reactive classes (Priest) doesn't have access to ANY class-based win conditions outside of healing/fatigue (which is why Tickatus/Jaraxxus just destroy Priests, even if control priest is good against the aggro meta).
The devs want hearthstone to be a tempo-based game and that's fine, but if that's the case, then they need to give all of the classes the tools to compete in a game that's perpetually balanced around tempo. Right now, "control" just doesn't fit the paradigm, outside of OTK decks needing to control the game for long enough to draw their combo, and most classes don't have realistic combo finishers either.
The main classes you see right now are warlock paladin and hunter and mage. Paladins are plowing through the ladder with their secrets while hunter has even more smorc value with Trampling Rhino. Warlock is either they draw Tickatus they win or they burn your cards and board and play on curve Jaraxxus. That aside, even if mage is less popular since the Deck of Lunacy nerf, they're still super strong and the main reason is card draw. Too much of it. You've got Cram Session, Arcane Intellect and REFRESHING SPRING WATER. You know what else happens after they discover a million spells. The meta right now isn't particularly fun to play and my only reason to launch the game right now is to finish my daily/weekly quests. I will now stop ranting.
Funny how people insist tickatus is the reason we see a lot of aggro even though it has always been this way(fee exceptions like kotft). Meanwhile I am farming aggro decks with different versions of control priest, not a single warlock insight. Maybe that's because tickatus sucks against aggro? No no surely I am just lucky avoiding all those warlocks shaping the meta.
Well, yeah they nerfed watchposts - these were going to be the basis of slower, but minion based meta - hell they were like the most viable usable neutral defensive tools for mid-range decks since ..i dunno, like sludge belcher or something - and now they are deleted.
Mid-range decks could have coped with Tickatus fine, and the posts help deal with hunters too - and they could have kept pace with Mage well enough post lunacy nerf. Rogue lost penflinger so the Posts wouldn't have been all that OP in rogue.
I do not understand the nerf for them and the game I am imagining right now is a lot better with them in it, and a lot shittier without.
Yes. Nerfing them this quickly was absolutely a mistake. A minion like that needed to be somewhat tricky to remove to be worth running. They even forced interesting decisions about leaving them up or not.
Idk why nobody talks about rush warrior. That is absolutely not an aggro deck, I would place it in the "tempo" category, but could even be midrange if it is teched heavily enough. I did not lose to face hunter with it yet, and is a reasonable archetype design wise.
Tickatus sucks and is bad design, but he's not the reason the meta is dominated by aggro. The issue is that Blizzard keeps developing aggro/tempo tools and doesn't create enough board clear / AoE for reactive strategies to keep up. And one of the reactive classes (Priest) doesn't have access to ANY class-based win conditions outside of healing/fatigue (which is why Tickatus/Jaraxxus just destroy Priests, even if control priest is good against the aggro meta).
The devs want hearthstone to be a tempo-based game and that's fine, but if that's the case, then they need to give all of the classes the tools to compete in a game that's perpetually balanced around tempo. Right now, "control" just doesn't fit the paradigm, outside of OTK decks needing to control the game for long enough to draw their combo, and most classes don't have realistic combo finishers either.
Is board clear even the issue right now, though? Or is it lack of healing? Seems like most of the faster decks rely far more on face damage than board presence right now.
It feels awfully nice to play a heal-heavy deck against aggro right now. Priest and Shaman have tools that offer Reno-level healing under the right circumstances, and you can just bleed aggro decks dry. Of course the issue remains that those "do nothing" decks just get farmed by Tickatus.
Well, people always complain about the "aggro meta" but literally in every meta has a lot of aggro. It just makes sense, it's the fastest to play, people like winning fast and if you lose it's better to not waste as much time. Even when Spreading PlagueCard Name, was at 5 mana there was some form of aggro, and that card literally just shut down anything that was even close to aggro.
maybe back in the days where you got 10gold per 3 wins, but now the only reason would be fast climbing. but i see aggro at the end of the season as well so it doesnt make sense either. there is no point in playing brainless aggro decks besides climbing. certainly not for fun.
Well, people always complain about the "aggro meta" but literally in every meta has a lot of aggro. It just makes sense, it's the fastest to play, people like winning fast and if you lose it's better to not waste as much time. Even when Spreading PlagueCard Name, was at 5 mana there was some form of aggro, and that card literally just shut down anything that was even close to aggro.
maybe back in the days where you got 10gold per 3 wins, but now the only reason would be fast climbing. but i see aggro at the end of the season as well so it doesnt make sense either. there is no point in playing brainless aggro decks besides climbing. certainly not for fun.
I'm not a fan of aggro decks either (using or playing against), but it seems to me that some people just like it. It's simply a personal preference.
We shouldn't be calling them brainless, either, because resource management is still a thing for them, even if it doesn't seem like it.
Well, people always complain about the "aggro meta" but literally in every meta has a lot of aggro. It just makes sense, it's the fastest to play, people like winning fast and if you lose it's better to not waste as much time. Even when Spreading PlagueCard Name, was at 5 mana there was some form of aggro, and that card literally just shut down anything that was even close to aggro.
maybe back in the days where you got 10gold per 3 wins, but now the only reason would be fast climbing. but i see aggro at the end of the season as well so it doesnt make sense either. there is no point in playing brainless aggro decks besides climbing. certainly not for fun.
I'm not a fan of aggro decks either (using or playing against), but it seems to me that some people just like it. It's simply a personal preference.
We shouldn't be calling them brainless, either, because resource management is still a thing for them, even if it doesn't seem like it.
Not to mention, when there is a lot of aggro around, there are also a lot of aggro mirrors, where the game often hinges on every decision made.
Yeah I’m playing less and less because it feels like everyone is rolling the same few decks and it’s extremely boring facing the same crap each game. I personally have been experimenting with random custom decks and have enjoyed them even though I’m hard stuck at platinum.
Yeah I’m playing less and less because it feels like everyone is rolling the same few decks and it’s extremely boring facing the same crap each game. I personally have been experimenting with random custom decks and have enjoyed them even though I’m hard stuck at platinum.
Wanna real control deck? Try Priest!
it's very fun to play, especially compared to BS like "Control" Warlock, which is slow, unreliable and outdated. In a week or two people will drop Warlock altogether (it's already falling pretty fast), so Priest's worst matchup will be gone from the meta, and its win rate will rise even more.
Yeah I’m playing less and less because it feels like everyone is rolling the same few decks and it’s extremely boring facing the same crap each game. I personally have been experimenting with random custom decks and have enjoyed them even though I’m hard stuck at platinum.
Wanna real control deck? Try Priest!
it's very fun to play, especially compared to BS like "Control" Warlock, which is slow, unreliable and outdated. In a week or two people will drop Warlock altogether (it's already falling pretty fast), so Priest's worst matchup will be gone from the meta, and its win rate will rise even more.
I might build one this weekend play around with it
as soon as ranking system encourages players to play fast meta decks it will not change.
They actually reward long games more xp (=gold) now, which might change things up a little bit.
But yes. I haven't done the math, but you need a LOT better winrate to climb if the games take twice as long. On top of that, the streak needed to get you to legend is more likely to happen if you simply play more games.
There have been metas where there was a little less aggro but let's be real here. The only non-aggro timeline was during Knights when DKs and especially Spreading Plague Druids made aggro completely unplayable.
Aggro will always be here because HS is a tempo game and people want to be efficient (although that's not really important anymore with the Rewards Track). You would have to make Warrior and Priest extremely strong to actually get good anti-aggro metas or release cards that are DK level of powerful and provide basically infinite resources.
Also, there is too much draw for too cheap, which always favours aggro decks.
This! Midrange decks that should actually be viable against control are non-existent. Also deathrattle decks are good against control. But I see only hyper-aggro or OTK in wild. (or some super greedy warlock with tickatus, gnomeferatus etc.)
"Minion to minion the basic of all combats, only a fool trusts his win to an OTK"
Well, people always complain about the "aggro meta" but literally in every meta has a lot of aggro. It just makes sense, it's the fastest to play, people like winning fast and if you lose it's better to not waste as much time. Even when Spreading PlagueCard Name, was at 5 mana there was some form of aggro, and that card literally just shut down anything that was even close to aggro.
The very fact that one assumes that 'we are back to an aggro meta' implies the success of devs in making believe they are after a balanced and a diverse meta. Of course the are very good in deception but the target audience knows very well they'll be served in the end.
That's why Illusia and Hysteria.were nerfed silently as they had anti-aggro/ anti-aggression stats. Remember, Blizzard has no need for balance as the target audience has no need for self respect.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Aggro is cheap and fast, it will always be the most popular archetype, it's been like that since the first iteration of Face Hunter back in 2014, you should know this already.
I love you Dreadsteed, I will never disenchant you!
Tickatus sucks and is bad design, but he's not the reason the meta is dominated by aggro. The issue is that Blizzard keeps developing aggro/tempo tools and doesn't create enough board clear / AoE for reactive strategies to keep up. And one of the reactive classes (Priest) doesn't have access to ANY class-based win conditions outside of healing/fatigue (which is why Tickatus/Jaraxxus just destroy Priests, even if control priest is good against the aggro meta).
The devs want hearthstone to be a tempo-based game and that's fine, but if that's the case, then they need to give all of the classes the tools to compete in a game that's perpetually balanced around tempo. Right now, "control" just doesn't fit the paradigm, outside of OTK decks needing to control the game for long enough to draw their combo, and most classes don't have realistic combo finishers either.
The main classes you see right now are warlock paladin and hunter and mage. Paladins are plowing through the ladder with their secrets while hunter has even more smorc value with Trampling Rhino. Warlock is either they draw Tickatus they win or they burn your cards and board and play on curve Jaraxxus. That aside, even if mage is less popular since the Deck of Lunacy nerf, they're still super strong and the main reason is card draw. Too much of it. You've got Cram Session, Arcane Intellect and REFRESHING SPRING WATER. You know what else happens after they discover a million spells. The meta right now isn't particularly fun to play and my only reason to launch the game right now is to finish my daily/weekly quests. I will now stop ranting.
Funny how people insist tickatus is the reason we see a lot of aggro even though it has always been this way(fee exceptions like kotft). Meanwhile I am farming aggro decks with different versions of control priest, not a single warlock insight. Maybe that's because tickatus sucks against aggro? No no surely I am just lucky avoiding all those warlocks shaping the meta.
Im super happy to face an all aggro meta. I can easily tweak my warlock to beat aggro.
I already do decent with my deck as is. But if everyone wants to play smorc decks Im happy to farm them.
Galavant Animation
Yes. Nerfing them this quickly was absolutely a mistake. A minion like that needed to be somewhat tricky to remove to be worth running. They even forced interesting decisions about leaving them up or not.
Idk why nobody talks about rush warrior. That is absolutely not an aggro deck, I would place it in the "tempo" category, but could even be midrange if it is teched heavily enough. I did not lose to face hunter with it yet, and is a reasonable archetype design wise.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Is board clear even the issue right now, though? Or is it lack of healing? Seems like most of the faster decks rely far more on face damage than board presence right now.
It feels awfully nice to play a heal-heavy deck against aggro right now. Priest and Shaman have tools that offer Reno-level healing under the right circumstances, and you can just bleed aggro decks dry. Of course the issue remains that those "do nothing" decks just get farmed by Tickatus.
maybe back in the days where you got 10gold per 3 wins, but now the only reason would be fast climbing. but i see aggro at the end of the season as well so it doesnt make sense either. there is no point in playing brainless aggro decks besides climbing. certainly not for fun.
I'm not a fan of aggro decks either (using or playing against), but it seems to me that some people just like it. It's simply a personal preference.
We shouldn't be calling them brainless, either, because resource management is still a thing for them, even if it doesn't seem like it.
Not to mention, when there is a lot of aggro around, there are also a lot of aggro mirrors, where the game often hinges on every decision made.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Yeah I’m playing less and less because it feels like everyone is rolling the same few decks and it’s extremely boring facing the same crap each game. I personally have been experimenting with random custom decks and have enjoyed them even though I’m hard stuck at platinum.
Wanna real control deck? Try Priest!
it's very fun to play, especially compared to BS like "Control" Warlock, which is slow, unreliable and outdated. In a week or two people will drop Warlock altogether (it's already falling pretty fast), so Priest's worst matchup will be gone from the meta, and its win rate will rise even more.
I might build one this weekend play around with it
as soon as ranking system encourages players to play fast meta decks it will not change.
People play face hunter cause someone still plays lunacy mage or tickatus warlock.
Stop play those decks and aggro will disappear
They actually reward long games more xp (=gold) now, which might change things up a little bit.
But yes. I haven't done the math, but you need a LOT better winrate to climb if the games take twice as long. On top of that, the streak needed to get you to legend is more likely to happen if you simply play more games.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide