Mecha'Thun decks will most likely still be around, especially Mecha'Thun Druid. It uses only Classic cards as the main triggers, and any cheap spells that are rotating out, will most likely be easily replaced by different cheap spells. Mecha'Thun Warlock and Mecha'Thun Priest both utilize combo pieces that are rotating out (Cataclysm, Bloodbloom and Ticking Abomination). Also, Hemet is rotating, making Mecha'Thun Priest very weak in its current form.
Paladin DK OTK will obviously not exist anymore, with the rotation of Uther of the Ebon Blade. Holy Wrath Paladin however, might stick around for a while, and doesn't even need all that much in terms of support.
As for the future, it's hard to guess, since we have no insights into the new cards. Dean Ayala briefly touched upon OTK decks during yesterday's Value Town, and while he thinks they're important for the health of the meta, he also said they didn't expect this many to run rampant. Specifically Mecha'thun added even more iterations of OTK decks, and Dean said they mostly didn't like the way the decks are built now, offering no interactions for the opponent. Mecha'Thun Priest was his prime example in that regard.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Countering that statement, imagine being the one playing OTK decks, and you lose a game on the spot because your opponent plays one card. That should never happen. Dirty Rat, in my opinion, was perfect. It won me games atleast as many times as it lost me games.
Loatheb was a lot of fun, I agree. In a way, Mojomaster Zihi has the same effect.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Countering that statement, imagine being the one playing OTK decks, and you lose a game on the spot because your opponent plays one card. That should never happen. Dirty Rat, in my opinion, was perfect. It won me games atleast as many times as it lost me games.
Loatheb was a lot of fun, I agree. In a way, Mojomaster Zihi has the same effect.
That is basically exactly what I said lol. A card that works more consistently than Dirty Rat, but doesn't instantly decide the game when played (ie preferably a card that attacks the opponent's mana or ability to play their cards temporarily, as per Loatheb, Zihi, Unraveler etc).
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Countering that statement, imagine being the one playing OTK decks, and you lose a game on the spot because your opponent plays one card. That should never happen. Dirty Rat, in my opinion, was perfect. It won me games atleast as many times as it lost me games.
Loatheb was a lot of fun, I agree. In a way, Mojomaster Zihi has the same effect.
That is basically exactly what I said lol. A card that works more consistently than Dirty Rat, but doesn't instantly decide the game when played (ie preferably a card that attacks the opponent's mana or ability to play their cards temporarily, as per Loatheb, Zihi, Unraveler etc).
Ah, my bad. I thought you were the one playing Dirty Rat in this instance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
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Dirty Rat-esque effect are, in my opinion, not the answer. The big issue people have with OTKs is that they don't have a meaningful way to interact with their opponent's strategy. However all Dirty Rat did was flip that on its head. Rips a combo piece out of your hand without any real counter play (other than keep a few insignificant minions in hand to reduce the chances of it hitting something critical). The goal should be to find ways that interact with combo strategies without completely destroying them instantly. I think Blizzard really did a stellar job with Zihi and would love to see a couple more things like that. Maybe a minion with an aura effect something like "players can only draw one card per turn." "players take 2 damage when drawing a card." a battlecry along the lines of "Lock a random minion/card in your opponent's hand for 1 turn." or a deathrattle that shuffles additional cards into the opponent's deck to slow them down (for example overstatted vanilla minions like Emerald Drake, which solidifies it as a tech choice against decks that want to draw cards fast and do not try to beat you on board, but has limited usefulness against beatdown strategies). I can see stuff like this being a practical way to fight against OTK decks without creating coin-flip win or loss scenarios.
Dirty Rat-esque effect are, in my opinion, not the answer. The big issue people have with OTKs is that they don't have a meaningful way to interact with their opponent's strategy. However all Dirty Rat did was flip that on its head. Rips a combo piece out of your hand without any real counter play (other than keep a few insignificant minions in hand to reduce the chances of it hitting something critical). The goal should be to find ways that interact with combo strategies without completely destroying them instantly. I think Blizzard really did a stellar job with Zihi and would love to see a couple more things like that. Maybe a minion with an aura effect something like "players can only draw one card per turn." "players take 2 damage when drawing a card." a battlecry along the lines of "Lock a random minion/card in your opponent's hand for 1 turn." or a deathrattle that shuffles additional cards into the opponent's deck to slow them down (for example overstatted vanilla minions like Emerald Drake, which solidifies it as a tech choice against decks that want to draw cards fast and do not try to beat you on board, but has limited usefulness against beatdown strategies). I can see stuff like this being a practical way to fight against OTK decks without creating coin-flip win or loss scenarios.
I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. All I would like to see I like these proposals and hope some of them get implemented one day.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Countering that statement, imagine being the one playing OTK decks, and you lose a game on the spot because your opponent plays one card. That should never happen. Dirty Rat, in my opinion, was perfect. It won me games atleast as many times as it lost me games.
Loatheb was a lot of fun, I agree. In a way, Mojomaster Zihi has the same effect.
OTK decks suck in general. I hope blizzard prints a 2/3 for 2 Mana battlecry change a 10 cost minion in your opponents hand into another random 10 cost minion and a 3 Mana 3/4 same text except targeting 9 mana.
Dirty Rat-esque effect are, in my opinion, not the answer. The big issue people have with OTKs is that they don't have a meaningful way to interact with their opponent's strategy. However all Dirty Rat did was flip that on its head. Rips a combo piece out of your hand without any real counter play (other than keep a few insignificant minions in hand to reduce the chances of it hitting something critical). The goal should be to find ways that interact with combo strategies without completely destroying them instantly. I think Blizzard really did a stellar job with Zihi and would love to see a couple more things like that. Maybe a minion with an aura effect something like "players can only draw one card per turn." "players take 2 damage when drawing a card." a battlecry along the lines of "Lock a random minion/card in your opponent's hand for 1 turn." or a deathrattle that shuffles additional cards into the opponent's deck to slow them down (for example overstatted vanilla minions like Emerald Drake, which solidifies it as a tech choice against decks that want to draw cards fast and do not try to beat you on board, but has limited usefulness against beatdown strategies). I can see stuff like this being a practical way to fight against OTK decks without creating coin-flip win or loss scenarios.
I like this idea, but this also leads me to cards like Weasel. How about some sort 7 drop with poor stats, but when played shuffles a bunch of really bad statted minions in your opponents deck?
You could even print a card like....swap the highest cost cards in both players hands. You get their 10 drop and they get your 5 drop. You could even it make it like Toggwaggle in which they can play it again to get it back.
Dirty Rat-esque effect are, in my opinion, not the answer. The big issue people have with OTKs is that they don't have a meaningful way to interact with their opponent's strategy. However all Dirty Rat did was flip that on its head. Rips a combo piece out of your hand without any real counter play (other than keep a few insignificant minions in hand to reduce the chances of it hitting something critical). The goal should be to find ways that interact with combo strategies without completely destroying them instantly. I think Blizzard really did a stellar job with Zihi and would love to see a couple more things like that. Maybe a minion with an aura effect something like "players can only draw one card per turn." "players take 2 damage when drawing a card." a battlecry along the lines of "Lock a random minion/card in your opponent's hand for 1 turn." or a deathrattle that shuffles additional cards into the opponent's deck to slow them down (for example overstatted vanilla minions like Emerald Drake, which solidifies it as a tech choice against decks that want to draw cards fast and do not try to beat you on board, but has limited usefulness against beatdown strategies). I can see stuff like this being a practical way to fight against OTK decks without creating coin-flip win or loss scenarios.
I like this idea, but this also leads me to cards like Weasel. How about some sort 7 drop with poor stats, but when played shuffles a bunch of really bad statted minions in your opponents deck?
You could even print a card like....swap the highest cost cards in both players hands. You get their 10 drop and they get your 5 drop. You could even it make it like Toggwaggle in which they can play it again to get it back.
I think the main issue with Weasel Tunneler was that it shuffled itself, meaning it was potentially endless. Something that shuffles finite cards into the opponents deck is a reasonable strategy to slow them down, while not causing any issues with looping/infinite value etc. But yeah I like your idea too, there's any number of ways to go about balancing this sort of card for a specific purpose.
The second idea is interesting. I think it would absolutely have to have a "King's Ransom" type of effect so as not to make it completely unfair, but another cool concept to the end of delaying a combo being played without destroying it completely.
Some OTK decks will disappear and new ones will certainly pop-up with the new expansion/rotation. OTK will always be there as many players really like these decks despite the fact that they do have (according to HS replay) below average win rates. I know some may argue that stats mean nothing and that a good player can have a good win rate with such decks. Correct but statistics do take them into account...they include the win rates of the great, the average and the bad players. So when you see 57% winrate Odd Pal and 47% for mechathun druid that tells you, very effectively, how good is the deck in the meta. For me, with the tech cards we have now, OTK decks are actually good decks to play against once you know how the combo works and how to counter them...easy wins most of the time. I used to call them uninteractive decks but I think the term ultra defensive is more appropriate.
if u dont want 1 hour long control warrior mirror matchups , otk decks should be in the game.
But i do admit that game needs disruption tools for armor and otk decks .
How armor disruption mate? A player invest 2 mana or more every turn the whole game to build up armour and you want to take that away with just a card? So is isnt it unfair like you otk supporter always argue that card like Dirty Rat can take away your combo piece thus won the game?
I'm too lazy to check into it myself but when the rotation hits, are all these otk decks going to become less viable unless more support is added?
I play a version of Holy Wrath Paladin which hardly uses any cards from the year of the Kraken, and it works pretty well.
Mecha'Thun decks will most likely still be around, especially Mecha'Thun Druid. It uses only Classic cards as the main triggers, and any cheap spells that are rotating out, will most likely be easily replaced by different cheap spells. Mecha'Thun Warlock and Mecha'Thun Priest both utilize combo pieces that are rotating out (Cataclysm, Bloodbloom and Ticking Abomination). Also, Hemet is rotating, making Mecha'Thun Priest very weak in its current form.
Paladin DK OTK will obviously not exist anymore, with the rotation of Uther of the Ebon Blade. Holy Wrath Paladin however, might stick around for a while, and doesn't even need all that much in terms of support.
Maly decks will struggle, in their current form. Maly Druid loses a lot of key stalling cards (Malfurion the Pestilent, Spreading Plague), while Resurrect Priest will lose basically all means of resurrection (Eternal Servitude and Lesser Diamond Spellstone). In addition, Priests also lose Psychic Scream, arguably one of their strongest cards. Maly Rogue loses Kobold Illusionist, their main trigger for their combo.
As for the future, it's hard to guess, since we have no insights into the new cards. Dean Ayala briefly touched upon OTK decks during yesterday's Value Town, and while he thinks they're important for the health of the meta, he also said they didn't expect this many to run rampant. Specifically Mecha'thun added even more iterations of OTK decks, and Dean said they mostly didn't like the way the decks are built now, offering no interactions for the opponent. Mecha'Thun Priest was his prime example in that regard.
Again, we can't be sure, but I have faith in Team 5 in the way that they learned from their mistakes. They will most likely not add anything that demotes gameplay to a non-interactive form, thus safely saying Mecha'Thun decks will receive little support. In addition, Ayala also exclaimed their love for Dirty Rat, and said: "If you like Dirty Rat, you will not be disappointed." With that sentence in mind, it is not completely unthinkable that OTK decks do indeed receive support, but are countered in more viable ways.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
This is interesting to know. I hope they print something a little softer, yet more consistent than Dirty Rat, because that card was a little bit "I guess I lose then." when it hit, and basically did nothing when it missed, while being super coin-flippy. I'd like to see more Loatheb-esque cards (though not at quite that power level), which disrupt combos but only temporarily.
Countering that statement, imagine being the one playing OTK decks, and you lose a game on the spot because your opponent plays one card. That should never happen. Dirty Rat, in my opinion, was perfect. It won me games atleast as many times as it lost me games.
Loatheb was a lot of fun, I agree. In a way, Mojomaster Zihi has the same effect.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
That is basically exactly what I said lol. A card that works more consistently than Dirty Rat, but doesn't instantly decide the game when played (ie preferably a card that attacks the opponent's mana or ability to play their cards temporarily, as per Loatheb, Zihi, Unraveler etc).
Ah, my bad. I thought you were the one playing Dirty Rat in this instance.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
Basically Mojomaster Zihi then?
Edit: I'd at least submit that one such neutral effect at a time is enough. You wouldn't want to overdo it on disruption effects.
Dirty Rat-esque effect are, in my opinion, not the answer. The big issue people have with OTKs is that they don't have a meaningful way to interact with their opponent's strategy. However all Dirty Rat did was flip that on its head. Rips a combo piece out of your hand without any real counter play (other than keep a few insignificant minions in hand to reduce the chances of it hitting something critical). The goal should be to find ways that interact with combo strategies without completely destroying them instantly.
I think Blizzard really did a stellar job with Zihi and would love to see a couple more things like that. Maybe a minion with an aura effect something like "players can only draw one card per turn." "players take 2 damage when drawing a card." a battlecry along the lines of "Lock a random minion/card in your opponent's hand for 1 turn." or a deathrattle that shuffles additional cards into the opponent's deck to slow them down (for example overstatted vanilla minions like Emerald Drake, which solidifies it as a tech choice against decks that want to draw cards fast and do not try to beat you on board, but has limited usefulness against beatdown strategies). I can see stuff like this being a practical way to fight against OTK decks without creating coin-flip win or loss scenarios.
I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. All I would like to see I like these proposals and hope some of them get implemented one day.
I hope OTK decks get no more support - they are way too powerfull - we need more tech against it!
OTK decks suck in general. I hope blizzard prints a 2/3 for 2 Mana battlecry change a 10 cost minion in your opponents hand into another random 10 cost minion and a 3 Mana 3/4 same text except targeting 9 mana.
I like this idea, but this also leads me to cards like Weasel. How about some sort 7 drop with poor stats, but when played shuffles a bunch of really bad statted minions in your opponents deck?
You could even print a card like....swap the highest cost cards in both players hands. You get their 10 drop and they get your 5 drop. You could even it make it like Toggwaggle in which they can play it again to get it back.
I think the main issue with Weasel Tunneler was that it shuffled itself, meaning it was potentially endless. Something that shuffles finite cards into the opponents deck is a reasonable strategy to slow them down, while not causing any issues with looping/infinite value etc. But yeah I like your idea too, there's any number of ways to go about balancing this sort of card for a specific purpose.
The second idea is interesting. I think it would absolutely have to have a "King's Ransom" type of effect so as not to make it completely unfair, but another cool concept to the end of delaying a combo being played without destroying it completely.
Some OTK decks will disappear and new ones will certainly pop-up with the new expansion/rotation. OTK will always be there as many players really like these decks despite the fact that they do have (according to HS replay) below average win rates. I know some may argue that stats mean nothing and that a good player can have a good win rate with such decks. Correct but statistics do take them into account...they include the win rates of the great, the average and the bad players. So when you see 57% winrate Odd Pal and 47% for mechathun druid that tells you, very effectively, how good is the deck in the meta. For me, with the tech cards we have now, OTK decks are actually good decks to play against once you know how the combo works and how to counter them...easy wins most of the time. I used to call them uninteractive decks but I think the term ultra defensive is more appropriate.
Ayala said on Twitch that a card like Dirty Rat is coming in next expansion so there will be a tool against Mechatun decks.
Cloning priest should disappear as they lose cards in rotation.
Perhaps Hakkar decks and Holy Wrath Paladin might still exist.
if u dont want 1 hour long control warrior mirror matchups , otk decks should be in the game.
But i do admit that game needs disruption tools for armor and otk decks .
How about an anti armor card, that destroys all of your opponents armor and heals them for that much?
How armor disruption mate? A player invest 2 mana or more every turn the whole game to build up armour and you want to take that away with just a card? So is isnt it unfair like you otk supporter always argue that card like Dirty Rat can take away your combo piece thus won the game?
RIP High Priest Thekal.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.