Hearthpwn

Quote from jaxson_bateman >>

 All you need them to do, generally, is drop a few cards, and you'll usually get an idea as to what archetype they're piloting - and in turn, what the other cards in their deck are. No need to give up a card for it.

So Chameleos, IMO, shouldn't be played for 'information' purposes - it's a waste of a card in your deck. If it were played for any reason, I'd imagine it'd fit into some sort of control priest shell, in a slower meta where you're not unlikely to see something like a Lich King out of the opponent - an extra Lich King in your deck never hurt.

I'm skeptical about it seeing play at all though; relying on a lot of RNG like that doesn't usually work too well.

Quote from Nordos >>

All I wanted was to stress on how it is important to prepare for that MU. Priests don't have the warlock's hero power to draw cards consistently, so every card you have has to be useful. Remember you are on the clock, you can't afford to wait. The class losses a lot of good tools, so the chances of starting a match with a good hand are going to be lower than before. After all (control) priest is losing - Potion of Madness, Pint-Size Potion + Shadow Word: Horror, Netherspite Historian, Kabal Talonpriest, Priest of the Feast, Greater Healing Potion, Drakonid Operative, Dragonfire Potion (some lists also include Book Wyrm, Dirty Rat), aka a lot of AoEs, heals, cheap removals and strong early game.

My argument was that you are better off with your own tools than the opponent's ones. My argument was that the Chameleon won't always give you something, which will contest the board. The first example was the 2/1 (deckhand or murloc if you wish), my second were the other "useful" cards you could get, but which won't affect the board state that much, because those don't have synergy with your deck. Some are weak stated with an effect, which only triggers on the opponent's board (e.g. on dudes), but in your deck it's a plain vanilla minion, which will die easily to a token or the opponent's weapon. So why use it in the first place?

You seem to think that if you get Chameleos, you have to use it, since it will be your only card. Thats one point I simply want to point out. 

Not every card is multi-functional. This doesn't make it bad by default, only in a specific MU and I was talking about this the whole time (after all I only mentioned aggro, didn't I). I don't imagine how this will be the only card in hand, but I want to stress on how EVERY card is important against thar arch-type. Having a minion, which will bring a "meh" outcome isn't impressive enough to justify its usage in a meta, where aggro decks are popular. I'm not justifying the meta of the next expansion, I'm just speaking in general.

I want to say this - if this card was implemented in the K&C set, then I would have had probably a different opinion, because currently priests posess a lot of tools to deal with zerging boards and using a single slot wouldn't have been that punishing. It would felt like a tech, which is acceptable.

Quote from M_Ronin >>

Before I continue, I would like to say the following - thx for your reply and thx for reading all of my previous posts. I wrote them in the small hours yesterday  and some of them might not have been that well structured or visually acceptable. You have many solid arguments, so I will reply to them 1 by 1, but sadly I have to disagree at the end.

1) Yeah, that's a very nice point and you are totally right. I mustn't underestimate this as a tech, because this is really far better than some extremely slow and situational cards like Mind Control and it gives you a bit of information on top of it. The part about this being "meta dependent" is also true - I was also thinking about it, but maybe I was too tired to write it. Because against slower decks you can afford to scout their hand, you gather some information about its contents and you use this knowledge to perform more optimal plays in the future. Not to mention, that against value decks you can always prey upon getting that valuable minion (N'Zoth, Elise, Kazakus, Pyros, Tirion...) and then to gain card advantage over your opponent. 

The reason I included the 2/1 example was to stress on the RNG drawback. The Chameleon can whiff big time and you might not copy a minion, which will contest the board. Since you are facing aggro, aka a deck with low-quality cards, the chances of you stumbling upon something poorly stated are high. I also explained, that the opponent will just use a token/removal to deal with it or they can ignore it, if you are low on health anyway.

2) About having extra information against aggro - you know what I wrote before, you know what I'm about to say (I also "attached" some of my previous posts, because I have written lots of information there). And I'm going to say the following - you don't really benefit from it. HS is a game, where playing on-curve is normally the most optimal play, so some turns like turn 4 Call to Arms, turn 5 Living Mana, turn 10 Bloodreaver Gul'dan can be expected and you have to prepare for those turns the best way possible. Why do you have to scout, in order to know what you are facing? 1) Some classes have only 1 popular deck, 2) you can get the same information on turn 1-3, when you see some specific cards (murlocs vs Lost in the Jungle). It's obvious that against burn decks you have to heal as much as possible and against aggro paladin you have to try to dump your cards, because else the opponent will just punish you for your slow hand at one point. Since you are on the clock and since priests can't draw cards as consistently as us warlocks, every card in your starting hand plays a huge role. Granted, you can successfuly see, if the mage has some burn or if they have a Counterspell, but if you don't have the needed cards to react, then what good does this information do to you? I mentioned it before - the knowledge itself doesn't miraculously give you the needed cards at the right time. I'm not imagining, that the Chameleon is the only card in hand, but after the rotation priests are losing many good anti-aggro tools and the chances of getting the remaining ones in the starting hand become significantly lower.

3) Or maybe you'll get into a weapon/removal you are not supposed to be getting your hands into and then just play it right there.

Since I lacked second glyph, I decided to play a shifting scroll in my secret mage deck as a budget option, and more often than not it was even better than glyph.

RNG, rng, rng. Except the weapon part, why would I find removal in the opponent's hand, if they play aggro or mid-range? Maybe you are thinking of slower decks or maybe you are thinking of the rare cases, where some dudeadin runs Consecration. But I'm not always going to copy that card at the right time. I already told you, that the Chameleon can whiff. He is slow and unpredictable and this is not what I want against my aggro players... Sign, but I hear you are mentioning the part about this being a tech, so I will stop here.

About the very last paragraph - sorry, dude, but if you were pleased with the scrolls, then you had some good RNG from them. While yes, you could wait to get a better spell, but choosing the outcome, making it cheaper (aka investing your mana for future turns) and planning your next turns in advance is way more important than relying on pure RNG to give you the spell. Because the same way you got burn, the very same you you could have gotten worthless spells like Flamestrike or Ice Barrier (against control), some cheap low-impact cards like Freezing Potion. I mean, you are playing the aggressor, normally you have a smooth curve, we are the ones on the though spot, if we don't answer your plays properly. As for priest, well - it all depends on how the WW set will look for them.

Some time later I think, that I will make a gigantic post regarding the pros and cons of this card. I will gather the (objective) arguments from all of the users till now and I will try to make a clear and a structured list. Also planning to include the combo MUs.

Quote from M_Ronin>>

Thx for your post again. I will be quick this time {rofl; sorry}:

1) My main issue is how this eats a whole slot from your hand.

I expect the tech argument. And yes, If I get to draw the card, which takes the slot for techs (Oozes, Skulking Geist, Chameleon), then the legendary itself isn't responsible that I didn't get a card from the removal slot instead. The draw RNG wasn't on my side and that's it.

2) For now priests lose a lot of anti-aggro tools (early-game, cheap removals, heals, AoEs) and I'm not seeing a replacement for now.

Potion of Madness, Pint-Size Potion + Shadow Word: Horror, Netherspite Historian, Kabal Talonpriest, Priest of the Feast, Greater Healing Potion, Drakonid Operative, Dragonfire Potion (some lists also include Book Wyrm, Dirty Rat). Nothing much to say further, it all depends on how the WW set will look like. Diluting the deck with techs doesn't sound like a strong move.

3) In the cases versus aggro decks - the situations, where this will be kinda helpful, will be few imho.

I mean, you explained that situation pretty well, but it all sounds way too specific to me. I even think, that in your case the Kirin Tor Mage would kill the priest just because priests can't deal with 4-attack minions and the mage would finish off the priest with that burst. Yes, in some situations I will probably know, if my opponent has Leeroy in stored for me or if I can afford to hold on a clear for a bit longer, in others I will be desperate to find a good answer and I will draw this 1/1 instead; or I will find a cheap minion, but the opponent will just use a token or their weapon/small spell to kill it. And I won't stop mentioning this, because against aggro really you are on the clock. While against control you can turn the game in your favour almost at any moment (you have plenty of time to draw your removals and to prepare for their threats), aggro has the upperhand just because of their fast play-style and smooth curves. They have the ability to continue the pressure - one way or another.

I would say you expect way too much reliability from your cards in a card game... but in cases where it has not turned into something useful you just don't play it.                True->>>>>>>  No card shines in all circumstances, this is no different. You don't get too greedy with it, you play it as soon as it turns into something useful

Look man, I'm a warlock main. We warlocks can afford using bunch of techs, just because of the strong HP. We also run a lot of cheap removals and powerful heals, which also become removals themselves (Lesser Amethyst Spellstone). Priest lacks those stuff; they will be pressured pretty easily - they have to choose to either fish for answers (and to fall behind the board even more) or to desperately stall with the minions they have in hand. Now, I don't Imagine the worst case scenario, I see how the priest player will have an AoE or two in hand, but the aggro player can react really fast to it and in most cases they will refill the board once again.

At the end of the day the priest player has to consider if that card is worth to be included in the present meta, which leads to your argument about this being meta-dependent. We both have different opinions about this, which is nice, but I just think differently, because I have played a lot of hunter before and I know from experience, that (control) priest can be pressured easily.

Last paragraph, let's just see priest's arsenal w/o the WW part:

Quote from Xivir >>

The card states it updates every turn however in the video it only updated at the start of the priests turn.