Let's (mis)evaluate all of the new Warlock cards and the related neutral ones in one thread. (Yeah, I'm tired of reading many of different threads for all of the cards.) I share my short ideas and impressions and I'm courius about your opinions. I'm focusing on Standard format.
This thread isn't a deck sharing one, just share constructive thinking about the cards, possible combos and value plays, etc.
Warlock cards
Let's talk about the "potential" category. These cards seems mediocre or bad but I'm really happy because of their existence. They have unique, interesting effect and these have some potential in the future. They are good for testing their mechanical implementation like "what could the players do with these type of cards?". This happened in the past many times, teased an effect and printed some of them later (like Cho'gall and Bloodbloom for example).
I hope we hardly misevaluate this card like we did with Rin. The effect is super cool, you have probably two option. First: you can go infinite (just remember our lovely Dreadsteeds, RIP), or you can cycle big cards (mostly taunt, value or charge finisher) from your deck almost constantly. The real problem is the cost, it's overpriced enough and it is extremely vulnerable to silence. Cards like Baleful Banker and Tomb Lurker works well with her. So the potential is here, but it's to slow yet. If you want to win fatigue games you'll pick Rin instead, so the second option needs to be more thinking.
This card makes me think of using [card]Bloodbloom[/card]. My hand has almost touched my "trallala" when I realized it is clearly a win more card like Sudden Genesis and way too demon specific, BUT it is the first Warlock spell since DOOM! which maybe worth running with one of my favourite card, so it's great some wierd way. For example a 4 mana 7/7+ bloom+ this could even worth it in the future. Worth mention the Skull of the Man'ari value. So it has potential but smells too "win more" yet.
The ultimate combo breaker, the soul of Dirty Rat and so on... Project cards in general is an interesting conception. If you play a spell heavy control deck (dumb example: infinite Dr. Morrigan deck) then this is a gamplan destroyer without any drawback (almost). If the meta won't be infested by combo decks then this card seems really bad.
See the "Zoo package". It seems that in this expansion demon oriented midrange deck is the main target. I'm a control player but I could live with this direction (and sort amount of disappontment :D). Cards...
"Hey guys, we're Team5! Do you remember that we had tried handbuff mechanic with 3 different classes and none of them worked? Do you? Great! So let's try now with Warlock too!" It's wierd but it could work this time. The dream with Omega Agent / Doubling Imp / Saronite Chain Gang will probably barely happen, BUT people played Demonfire and Bloodfury Potion in the near past in their demon zoo deck, and [cardSoul Infusion[/card] is cheaper and non-demon specific in return for lacking burst potential. A 4/6 taunt on Turn 2 seems good enough to me.
It is a worse Crystalweaver. I can't feel it yet. Horrible topdeck, vulnerable to silence and steal, too situational. In aggressive zoo Prince Keleseth is way better. In a more midrange, slower demonlock it doesn't do too much in my opinion. It's a "meh" for me.
This card is good even by itself. Buffing it with Keleseth, or one of the two cards above it's a really good tempo play. Every Zoo and midrange demonlock will run 2 of these.
OP OP OP! There isn't too much to say. Aggressive card, usually it is a draw 3 play 2, finisher finder, better Tracking in overall. Some of you mentioned Quest Warlock and maybe it could work. This card is a 1 mana "complete half of your quest without drawback" because discarding cards from your deck means nothing to you, it's like those cards stay at the bottom of your deck. So your quest is discard 3 cards and you don't have to play a half control + half aggressive strategy, just play 1x Doomguard and 1x Soulfire. Sounds easy but The Soularium is a legendary spell and you probably can't draw it consistently in your first 4 turns. Worth a try.
I don't like this card so much, seems really weak to me. if you count the mana cost of hurting yourself then this is a 4 mana 5/5 on avarage. Underwhelming version of Floating Watcher or Darkshire Councilman. I would rather play Pit Lord instead.
I can't evaluate this card yet. Is it too much compensation to lose 4 Health instead of one more mana and play Shadow Bolt? Will hurt yourself Warlock be a real thing and do you need these bombs on those lists? I think it won't see any play in control decks. In zoo and midrange decks... there isn't too much space for Spirit Bomb. Instead of Soulfire to prevent discard in slower midrange demonlock maybe worth a try.
This is a hard question and probably equal to "will slower midrange demonlock be a real thing?". Wait it with Soul Infusion to buff and hold in hand until you have 10 mana... nice play but is it worth it? Is it a win condition? We'll see. If you can play it with 10 mana then it is a fast and strong board presence.
Neutral cards
(Will update this later, I have to work too, b*tch!)
Giggling Inventor: Two bladed weapon. Board presence with Zoo, and good defense in control decks. Those taunts will protect you and your other minions and could trade well with enemy tokens/cheap minions. They're annyoing if you know what I mean... :)
Crystallizer: Losing Health without losing Health. And a 1 mana 1/3 never get's old-fashioned.
Dr. Morrigan - Dust. I also thought about going "infinite" at first, but the whole combo sounds really clunky. Like you said, it's extremely vulnerable to silence, expensive and it might screw you if you draw Baleful Banker or something else beforehand. If I want to go infinite, I will use my beloved Baba Yaga + Baleful Banker combo.
Ectomancy - I personally think that this might make a different kind of cubelock, because I can totally see this being played after a cube turn. I don't think this will be in every meta, since the board has to survive a turn before you play this, but this has good synergies with Skull of the Man'ari. You suggest Bloodbloom in combination with this spell, but imho sacrificing 2 cards just to copy well stated minions doesn't sound that impressive to me. A control deck can use a single board clear and negate your efforts.
If warlock somehow gets more charge demons, then this could work. Like I said - it will create a different kind of cubelock.
Demonic Project - only good in a slow, preferably combo meta (but countering Taunt Druid doesn't sound bad either). We already had this discussion and I'm not going to change my mind about this - the card is really useful. Though I personally think it's a worse Dirty Rat, because the rat could pull out minions from the opponent's hand and if you use another rat or Brann Bronzebeard beforehand, then you will have a bigger chance to pull out a combo piece. The second copy of the project can also target the demon you just created in the opponent's hand.
Soul Infusion - not bad, but I only see this in an extreme aggro deck. I don't think that mid-rangy decks (running late-game threats) will want to run this. You already mentioned the obvious dream scenarios, so yeah.
Void Analyst - if this wasn't a deathrattle effect, but a battlecry one, it would have been 10 times better. I theorycrafted a deck with this, because a) warlocks can include 16+ demons in their hand and you can still get some value, b) Piloted Reaper looks so good in zoo. If this were a battlecry minion, then it would have good synergies like playing this on turn 3 with Voidwalker or on turn 4 with Vulgar Homunculus, but I also think that this can hardly compete with Prince Keleseth.
Doubling Imp - "This card is good by itself". Period.
The Soularium - "OP OP OP". You already said it - refill, fetching for lethal, disco synergies.
Spirit Bomb - I'm also very skeptical about this card. The 4 Health part is too much of a drawback imho. Currently there is only one way to utilize it (Lesser Amethyst Spellstone) and I don't think this is enough. If a meta approaches, when you really have to kill a cheap minion early on or risk this minion snowballing hard, I can only then see this being played. Either this or if Hurt-yourself-Warlock gets good synergies some day. Darkbomb is better.
Omega Agent - very skeptical about this outside arena. Doppelgangster + Evolve was a strong combo in the mid-game, mainly because not all decks could have answered a big board with a 6/7 mana card. This comes in the late game, so I don't think this will be used as a win-condition. It's a good card to play versus control, since this can eat a whole board clear, but it's not good enough to include in your deck. If only this could be discovered somehow.
Piloted Reaper - as already discussed, this has many good synergies with zoolock. This needs some experimentation, in order to find out whether or not bad cards like succubus can be run, but this has a lot of potential in this deck.
Nethersoul Buster: "if you count the mana cost of hurting yourself then this is a 4 mana 5/5 on avarage" What? You dont pay health for this card, you pay health for your other cards. You dont have to pay any health for this card's effect. It has an opportunity cost for sure, but I would call it small risk, high reward. Comparing it to a broken wild card like Darkshire Councilman is not fair IMO.
It seems there are some misunderstanding between us. I mean you need to pay mana some way to damage your hero (Flame Imp for example). And you need to damage your hero to increase Nethersoul Buster's attack. So in usual cases it is weaker than a Pit Lord. One of the best cases is Crystallizer + Nethersoul Buster but it is a 4 mana 6/5 + the 1/3 body. Can you consistently do it? Worth it? I don't think so, but we'll see. Almost the same problem as Duskbat was, imo.
For Mecha'thun: Build a Zoo deck with 3 or less cost cards, add Galvanizer, Hemet, Jungle Hunter, Dark Pact, Twisting Nether, and the BigF*ckingEye. If you have Galvanizer+Dark Pact in your hand, play Hemet as soon as you draw it. Next turn you will draw Nether, or C'thun, and have to play all of your remaining small Zoo stuffs out. When you draw C'thun, play Galvanizer + Nether, next turn win with Eye+Dark Pact. That's my way to do it. :D
I'm on mobile rn so will just post some quick thoughts.
I've always liked the idea of a midrange demon Warlock, but it's always seemed to be missing a few things (even in Wild), mostly good demons and enough synergies for them (so that it's actually worth making a demon deck in the first place).
I think a lot of people are underestimating void analyst and comparing it too much to crystalweaver. The problem with crystalweaver was that his effect was useless if you lost the board and that he didn't have the demon tag himself. Void analyst doesn't have either of those weaknesses, and also synergizes nicely with cards like doubling imp and imp gang boss.
Doubling imp seems very strong in a midrange demon deck, since after we lost imp gang boss demon decks have really been lacking a good 3-drop to maintain board presence with. Also very strong in traditional zoo.
Compared to the Hunter card from MSoG that gives a beast in your hand +2/+2, soul infusion seems a lot more consistent. Not sure if that makes it worth playing, though.
Not much else to say but I agree that dr. Morrigan, ectomancy, nethersoul buster and spirit bomb seem weak and that too many people are forgetting that demonic project also transforms one of your minions as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
I feel that Demonic Project will find a logic spot into Even-Warlock. Especially if the incoming meta of comboy decks oriented around cards kept in hard prevails.
Hope this is the right place for questions about demonic project. If demonic project is cast and the opponent or the caster (or both) does not have a minion/creature in hand what happens? Can the project even be played?
Hope this is the right place for questions about demonic project. If demonic project is cast and the opponent or the caster (or both) does not have a minion/creature in hand what happens? Can the project even be played?
I think yeah. Nothing extraordinary will happen; you will just lose 2 mana.
I think the spell will work like this - you cast it and it checks if both of you have minions in your hand. If at least one of you does (or both), the spell will choose a minion at random and will demonize it. Even if you already demonized a minion, there's a chance that it will hit the same target again (and not something else).
I greet you!
Let's (mis)evaluate all of the new Warlock cards and the related neutral ones in one thread. (Yeah, I'm tired of reading many of different threads for all of the cards.) I share my short ideas and impressions and I'm courius about your opinions. I'm focusing on Standard format.
This thread isn't a deck sharing one, just share constructive thinking about the cards, possible combos and value plays, etc.
Warlock cards
Let's talk about the "potential" category. These cards seems mediocre or bad but I'm really happy because of their existence. They have unique, interesting effect and these have some potential in the future. They are good for testing their mechanical implementation like "what could the players do with these type of cards?". This happened in the past many times, teased an effect and printed some of them later (like Cho'gall and Bloodbloom for example).
Dr. Morrigan
I hope we hardly misevaluate this card like we did with Rin. The effect is super cool, you have probably two option. First: you can go infinite (just remember our lovely Dreadsteeds, RIP), or you can cycle big cards (mostly taunt, value or charge finisher) from your deck almost constantly. The real problem is the cost, it's overpriced enough and it is extremely vulnerable to silence. Cards like Baleful Banker and Tomb Lurker works well with her. So the potential is here, but it's to slow yet. If you want to win fatigue games you'll pick Rin instead, so the second option needs to be more thinking.
Ectomancy
This card makes me think of using [card]Bloodbloom[/card]. My hand has almost touched my "trallala" when I realized it is clearly a win more card like Sudden Genesis and way too demon specific, BUT it is the first Warlock spell since DOOM! which maybe worth running with one of my favourite card, so it's great some wierd way. For example a 4 mana 7/7+ bloom+ this could even worth it in the future. Worth mention the Skull of the Man'ari value. So it has potential but smells too "win more" yet.
Demonic Project
The ultimate combo breaker, the soul of Dirty Rat and so on... Project cards in general is an interesting conception. If you play a spell heavy control deck (dumb example: infinite Dr. Morrigan deck) then this is a gamplan destroyer without any drawback (almost). If the meta won't be infested by combo decks then this card seems really bad.
See the "Zoo package". It seems that in this expansion demon oriented midrange deck is the main target. I'm a control player but I could live with this direction (and sort amount of disappontment :D). Cards...
Soul Infusion
"Hey guys, we're Team5! Do you remember that we had tried handbuff mechanic with 3 different classes and none of them worked?
Do you? Great! So let's try now with Warlock too!"
It's wierd but it could work this time. The dream with Omega Agent / Doubling Imp / Saronite Chain Gang will probably barely happen, BUT people played Demonfire and Bloodfury Potion in the near past in their demon zoo deck, and [cardSoul Infusion[/card] is cheaper and non-demon specific in return for lacking burst potential. A 4/6 taunt on Turn 2 seems good enough to me.
Void Analyst
It is a worse Crystalweaver. I can't feel it yet. Horrible topdeck, vulnerable to silence and steal, too situational. In aggressive zoo Prince Keleseth is way better. In a more midrange, slower demonlock it doesn't do too much in my opinion. It's a "meh" for me.
Doubling Imp
This card is good even by itself. Buffing it with Keleseth, or one of the two cards above it's a really good tempo play. Every Zoo and midrange demonlock will run 2 of these.
The Soularium
OP OP OP! There isn't too much to say. Aggressive card, usually it is a draw 3 play 2, finisher finder, better Tracking in overall.
Some of you mentioned Quest Warlock and maybe it could work. This card is a 1 mana "complete half of your quest without drawback" because discarding cards from your deck means nothing to you, it's like those cards stay at the bottom of your deck. So your quest is discard 3 cards and you don't have to play a half control + half aggressive strategy, just play 1x Doomguard and 1x Soulfire. Sounds easy but The Soularium is a legendary spell and you probably can't draw it consistently in your first 4 turns. Worth a try.
Nethersoul Buster
I don't like this card so much, seems really weak to me. if you count the mana cost of hurting yourself then this is a 4 mana 5/5 on avarage. Underwhelming version of Floating Watcher or Darkshire Councilman. I would rather play Pit Lord instead.
And the rest of...
Spirit Bomb
I can't evaluate this card yet. Is it too much compensation to lose 4 Health instead of one more mana and play Shadow Bolt? Will hurt yourself Warlock be a real thing and do you need these bombs on those lists? I think it won't see any play in control decks. In zoo and midrange decks... there isn't too much space for Spirit Bomb. Instead of Soulfire to prevent discard in slower midrange demonlock maybe worth a try.
Omega Agent
This is a hard question and probably equal to "will slower midrange demonlock be a real thing?". Wait it with Soul Infusion to buff and hold in hand until you have 10 mana... nice play but is it worth it? Is it a win condition? We'll see. If you can play it with 10 mana then it is a fast and strong board presence.
Neutral cards
(Will update this later, I have to work too, b*tch!)
Playing Hearthstone since Oct 2015. Favourite class: Warlock.
Aaaand I have 99 skills, but the english language ain't one. :D
Welcome back, mate.
My quick thoughts:
Dr. Morrigan - Dust. I also thought about going "infinite" at first, but the whole combo sounds really clunky. Like you said, it's extremely vulnerable to silence, expensive and it might screw you if you draw Baleful Banker or something else beforehand. If I want to go infinite, I will use my beloved Baba Yaga + Baleful Banker combo.
Ectomancy - I personally think that this might make a different kind of cubelock, because I can totally see this being played after a cube turn. I don't think this will be in every meta, since the board has to survive a turn before you play this, but this has good synergies with Skull of the Man'ari. You suggest Bloodbloom in combination with this spell, but imho sacrificing 2 cards just to copy well stated minions doesn't sound that impressive to me. A control deck can use a single board clear and negate your efforts.
If warlock somehow gets more charge demons, then this could work. Like I said - it will create a different kind of cubelock.
Demonic Project - only good in a slow, preferably combo meta (but countering Taunt Druid doesn't sound bad either). We already had this discussion and I'm not going to change my mind about this - the card is really useful. Though I personally think it's a worse Dirty Rat, because the rat could pull out minions from the opponent's hand and if you use another rat or Brann Bronzebeard beforehand, then you will have a bigger chance to pull out a combo piece. The second copy of the project can also target the demon you just created in the opponent's hand.
Soul Infusion - not bad, but I only see this in an extreme aggro deck. I don't think that mid-rangy decks (running late-game threats) will want to run this. You already mentioned the obvious dream scenarios, so yeah.
Void Analyst - if this wasn't a deathrattle effect, but a battlecry one, it would have been 10 times better. I theorycrafted a deck with this, because a) warlocks can include 16+ demons in their hand and you can still get some value, b) Piloted Reaper looks so good in zoo. If this were a battlecry minion, then it would have good synergies like playing this on turn 3 with Voidwalker or on turn 4 with Vulgar Homunculus, but I also think that this can hardly compete with Prince Keleseth.
Doubling Imp - "This card is good by itself". Period.
The Soularium - "OP OP OP". You already said it - refill, fetching for lethal, disco synergies.
Nethersoul Buster - I also prefer Darkshire Councilman over this. "I would rather play Pit Lord instead" this is saying a lot.
Spirit Bomb - I'm also very skeptical about this card. The 4 Health part is too much of a drawback imho. Currently there is only one way to utilize it (Lesser Amethyst Spellstone) and I don't think this is enough. If a meta approaches, when you really have to kill a cheap minion early on or risk this minion snowballing hard, I can only then see this being played. Either this or if Hurt-yourself-Warlock gets good synergies some day. Darkbomb is better.
Omega Agent - very skeptical about this outside arena. Doppelgangster + Evolve was a strong combo in the mid-game, mainly because not all decks could have answered a big board with a 6/7 mana card. This comes in the late game, so I don't think this will be used as a win-condition. It's a good card to play versus control, since this can eat a whole board clear, but it's not good enough to include in your deck. If only this could be discovered somehow.
Piloted Reaper - as already discussed, this has many good synergies with zoolock. This needs some experimentation, in order to find out whether or not bad cards like succubus can be run, but this has a lot of potential in this deck.
Taking a break.
It seems there are some misunderstanding between us. I mean you need to pay mana some way to damage your hero (Flame Imp for example). And you need to damage your hero to increase Nethersoul Buster's attack. So in usual cases it is weaker than a Pit Lord. One of the best cases is Crystallizer + Nethersoul Buster but it is a 4 mana 6/5 + the 1/3 body. Can you consistently do it? Worth it? I don't think so, but we'll see. Almost the same problem as Duskbat was, imo.
For Mecha'thun: Build a Zoo deck with 3 or less cost cards, add Galvanizer, Hemet, Jungle Hunter, Dark Pact, Twisting Nether, and the BigF*ckingEye. If you have Galvanizer+Dark Pact in your hand, play Hemet as soon as you draw it. Next turn you will draw Nether, or C'thun, and have to play all of your remaining small Zoo stuffs out. When you draw C'thun, play Galvanizer + Nether, next turn win with Eye+Dark Pact. That's my way to do it. :D
Playing Hearthstone since Oct 2015. Favourite class: Warlock.
Aaaand I have 99 skills, but the english language ain't one. :D
I'm on mobile rn so will just post some quick thoughts.
I've always liked the idea of a midrange demon Warlock, but it's always seemed to be missing a few things (even in Wild), mostly good demons and enough synergies for them (so that it's actually worth making a demon deck in the first place).
I think a lot of people are underestimating void analyst and comparing it too much to crystalweaver. The problem with crystalweaver was that his effect was useless if you lost the board and that he didn't have the demon tag himself. Void analyst doesn't have either of those weaknesses, and also synergizes nicely with cards like doubling imp and imp gang boss.
Doubling imp seems very strong in a midrange demon deck, since after we lost imp gang boss demon decks have really been lacking a good 3-drop to maintain board presence with. Also very strong in traditional zoo.
Compared to the Hunter card from MSoG that gives a beast in your hand +2/+2, soul infusion seems a lot more consistent. Not sure if that makes it worth playing, though.
Not much else to say but I agree that dr. Morrigan, ectomancy, nethersoul buster and spirit bomb seem weak and that too many people are forgetting that demonic project also transforms one of your minions as well.
On the third day before Witchwood, Blizzard gave to me,
three Handlock decks,
two Molten Giants
and a winstreak to Legend Rank #3
Disclaimer: This is a fictional poem and this didn't actually happen to me.
I feel that Demonic Project will find a logic spot into Even-Warlock. Especially if the incoming meta of comboy decks oriented around cards kept in hard prevails.
Hope this is the right place for questions about demonic project. If demonic project is cast and the opponent or the caster (or both) does not have a minion/creature in hand what happens? Can the project even be played?
I think yeah. Nothing extraordinary will happen; you will just lose 2 mana.
I think the spell will work like this - you cast it and it checks if both of you have minions in your hand. If at least one of you does (or both), the spell will choose a minion at random and will demonize it. Even if you already demonized a minion, there's a chance that it will hit the same target again (and not something else).
Thank you.