Whenever classic handlocks were matched up against the real midrange decks of the time (Fon/Sr druid, Shaman, Paladin) it was obviously a much slower deck which aimed for the longer game. Lord Jaraxxus was also the no. 1 grinder card in the game, outvaluing even greedy control warriors.
Evenlock should be consideren midrange but I am not sure where current Handlock builds fall. I believe it is relative to other less ambigous archetypes, but I see a lot of expensive minions, removal and AOE which is typical for a control playstyle.
As someone who used to play exclusively control, I cannot disagree more with this statement
Control mirrors are now objectively the least skill based they've ever been. Normally whether or not something is skill based is up for debate and personal interpretation but now with Archivist Elysiana, control mirrors literally come down to who gets better Elysiana cards (Or who chose to make their deck worse against aggro via bankers). 40 minute games are fine with me, but 40 minute games that ends in a coinflip no matter what you do? No thanks
Also, as someone else mentioned, handlock is not a true control deck
That's so not true lol. Typical bad player rant. I win most of my mirrors before I even get to play Elysiana. And when they play Elysiana, I still generally have 7-8 cards in my deck, because those bad players who don't think skill matters, I guess they just forgot they shouldn't draw cards in this matchup. Turn 3 shield block, much skill such coin flip, LOL.
Also never seeing anyone with Baleful Banker, maybe start with this, remove this card from your deck, it'll get better.
It's only R5, but I had great success with a Dragon Handlock build (79% WR from R15). You can use Omega Agent & Barista Lynchen as a finisher, but I don't think it's really necessary with aggro being prevalent atm.
I love how this thread degraded too `you are not playing a real control deck as you put in mountain giants >:(" For godsake people and you wonder why people consider "control" players elitist.
I love how everyone gravitates to this definition of all things rather than the real point. IMO, handlock can be loosely classified as a borderline control deck but OP's own words "First true control deck I've ever piloted for an extended period of time" makes me think it should be something less arbitrary
The unbiased fact is that handlock is closer to a midrange deck than something like control warrior on a spectrum of aggro and control. There's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with handlock players. The only one implying that they're inferior somehow is yourself. While I can't speak for the sentiments of the other people pointing out handlock is a questionable control deck, I don't see any of them saying they're "better" than other players for enjoying control decks nor that OP is a "worse" player for not enjoying a "real" control deck
That's so not true lol. Typical bad player rant. I win most of my mirrors before I even get to play Elysiana. And when they play Elysiana, I still generally have 7-8 cards in my deck, because those bad players who don't think skill matters, I guess they just forgot they shouldn't draw cards in this matchup. Turn 3 shield block, much skill such coin flip, LOL.
Also never seeing anyone with Baleful Banker, maybe start with this, remove this card from your deck, it'll get better.
You're right, I misspoke. It's not skillbased outside of rank 25. I don't know where you found players who are drawing cards in a control warrior mirror but it sure as hell isn't a rank where stats are relevant
Whenever classic handlocks were matched up against the real midrange decks of the time (Fon/Sr druid, Shaman, Paladin) it was obviously a much slower deck which aimed for the longer game. Lord Jaraxxus was also the no. 1 grinder card in the game, outvaluing even greedy control warriors.
Evenlock should be consideren midrange but I am not sure where current Handlock builds fall. I believe it is relative to other less ambigous archetypes, but I see a lot of expensive minions, removal and AOE which is typical for a control playstyle.
handlock has always been control, you aren't trying to finish the game by turns 5-7, yes it might happen if you play an "early" giant, but to play an early giant you need to literally do nothing for the first 4 turns if you dont have the coin, and after giant you still sit back controling your opponent's board or protecting your giant, Evenlock is midrange because you can backup your giant with even more friends like Faceless Shambler or Hooked Reaver and is a more minion centric deck
I have always thought control vs control was fun - That is probably the easiest matchup for me as I would consider myself to be a good resource manager. Also A lot of people don't know how to play control priest the right way (Not talking about taunt wall, otk or ressurrect priest here, but the good ol attrition priest).
I love how this thread degraded too `you are not playing a real control deck as you put in mountain giants >:(" For godsake people and you wonder why people consider "control" players elitist.
I love how everyone gravitates to this definition of all things rather than the real point. IMO, handlock can be loosely classified as a borderline control deck but OP's own words "First true control deck I've ever piloted for an extended period of time" makes me think it should be something less arbitrary
The unbiased fact is that handlock is closer to a midrange deck than something like control warrior on a spectrum of aggro and control. There's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with handlock players. The only one implying that they're inferior somehow is yourself. While I can't speak for the sentiments of the other people pointing out handlock is a questionable control deck, I don't see any of them saying they're "better" than other players for enjoying control decks nor that OP is a "worse" player for not enjoying a "real" control deck
That's so not true lol. Typical bad player rant. I win most of my mirrors before I even get to play Elysiana. And when they play Elysiana, I still generally have 7-8 cards in my deck, because those bad players who don't think skill matters, I guess they just forgot they shouldn't draw cards in this matchup. Turn 3 shield block, much skill such coin flip, LOL.
Also never seeing anyone with Baleful Banker, maybe start with this, remove this card from your deck, it'll get better.
You're right, I misspoke. It's not skillbased outside of rank 25. I don't know where you found players who are drawing cards in a control warrior mirror but it sure as hell isn't a rank where stats are relevant
I could have guessed you would say that. This is outdated though, you should say I'm rank 50.
Get good now. You didn't lose you mirror because of a coin flip, period.
Whenever classic handlocks were matched up against the real midrange decks of the time (Fon/Sr druid, Shaman, Paladin) it was obviously a much slower deck which aimed for the longer game. Lord Jaraxxus was also the no. 1 grinder card in the game, outvaluing even greedy control warriors.
Evenlock should be consideren midrange but I am not sure where current Handlock builds fall. I believe it is relative to other less ambigous archetypes, but I see a lot of expensive minions, removal and AOE which is typical for a control playstyle.
handlock has always been control, you aren't trying to finish the game by turns 5-7, yes it might happen if you play an "early" giant, but to play an early giant you need to literally do nothing for the first 4 turns if you dont have the coin, and after giant you still sit back controling your opponent's board or protecting your giant, Evenlock is midrange because you can backup your giant with even more friends like Faceless Shambler or Hooked Reaver and is a more minion centric deck
Handlock was and never and will never be control, all pros will agree to this. If u start putting control cards like siphon and twisting, in the deck u will make the deck weaker. Better to have more proactive cards.
Really? It isn't an agro deck. It is not a tempo deck. It's not generally a combo deck. And it isn't a midrange curve deck.
It most resembles a control deck that plays the game for big value moves and focuses heavily on clearing an opponent's threats while using high value plays to push damage. That sounds pretty control like to me. It does often try for an early Giant drop, which can sometimes end a game quickly, but that's not always how it wins.
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Really? It isn't an agro deck. It is not a tempo deck. It's not generally a combo deck. And it isn't a midrange curve deck.
It most resembles a control deck that plays the game for big value moves and focuses heavily on clearing an opponent's threats while using high value plays to push damage. That sounds pretty control like to me. It does often try for an early Giant drop, which can sometimes end a game quickly, but that's not always how it wins.
Its more like an aggro deck that starts on turn 4 and uses big minions, many people mistake the deck for a control and build it purely and also missplay alot with it because of it.
Really? It isn't an agro deck. It is not a tempo deck. It's not generally a combo deck. And it isn't a midrange curve deck.
It most resembles a control deck that plays the game for big value moves and focuses heavily on clearing an opponent's threats while using high value plays to push damage. That sounds pretty control like to me. It does often try for an early Giant drop, which can sometimes end a game quickly, but that's not always how it wins.
Its more like an aggro deck that starts on turn 4...
Its more like an aggro deck that starts on turn 4 and uses big minions, many people mistake the deck for a control and build it purely and also missplay alot with it because of it.
An Agro deck should pose a persistent damage threat to an opponent, always pressing on offense. Handlock does not work like that. It looks for opportunities to flip the board and then exploit the advantages. It hopes its big drops can't be quickly countered.
I think the only way in which it is not controlled is that it doesn't fatigue very well.
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Its more like an aggro deck that starts on turn 4 and uses big minions, many people mistake the deck for a control and build it purely and also missplay alot with it because of it.
An Agro deck should pose a persistent damage threat to an opponent, always pressing on offense. Handlock does not work like that. It looks for opportunities to flip the board and then exploit the advantages. It hopes its big drops can't be quickly countered.
I think the only way in which it is not controlled is that it doesn't fatigue very well.
Handlock does work like that, u put a threat on board every turn. As i said, all pros will agree that it isnt a control deck and u will for sure lose alot more with it if u threat it like that. The name handlock is from an old deck that started back when there wasnt any expansions, the deck was a proactive deck that pushed alot of damage on the midgame, if u put alot of control cards in it, it will become a control deck, but it will no longer be able to carry the name handlock.
Handlock does work like that, u put a threat on board every turn. As i said, all pros will agree that it isnt a control deck and u will for sure lose alot more with it if u threat it like that. The name handlock is from an old deck that started back when there wasnt any expansions, the deck was a proactive deck that pushed alot of damage on the midgame, if u put alot of control cards in it, it will become a control deck, but it will no longer be able to carry the name handlock.
Handlock is a control deck, it just plays more proactively against other conventional control decks like Control Warrior. Doomsayer, Shadowflame, Hellfire, Siphon Soul, Omega Agent, Lord Godfrey etc. are control cards. Or which lists are you referring to? I don't know where your claim "all pros will agree that it isn't a control deck" comes from, but I'm interested to hear the names of these pros.
Maybe not the most control-ish deck ever, but that's kind of impossible to do with warlock without a hero card. Jaraxxus is pretty necessary to close out games, as are Rafaam and the Giants. I think Belligerent Gnome is pretty underrated as a way to deal with aggro, its great at setting up plays with Hellfire and Mortal Coil.
Are there any decent controllish Warlock lists yet? It was the first thing I tried to homebreed when the new exp came, but without any real success. The different handlock variations I've tried don't really seem to get anywhere either. The lack of a powerful finisher is a real problem. Sure there's Rafaam, but he's so random, while Jaraxxus is very vulnerable against aggressive decks.
It's only R5, but I had great success with a Dragon Handlock build (79% WR from R15). You can use Omega Agent & Barista Lynchen as a finisher, but I don't think it's really necessary with aggro being prevalent atm.
Only 3 classes have Hero cards. so only 3 classes can play control for now. Either Blizzard has to release Hero cards for more classes or HoF Hunter, Warrior and Shaman ones.
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Whenever classic handlocks were matched up against the real midrange decks of the time (Fon/Sr druid, Shaman, Paladin) it was obviously a much slower deck which aimed for the longer game. Lord Jaraxxus was also the no. 1 grinder card in the game, outvaluing even greedy control warriors.
Evenlock should be consideren midrange but I am not sure where current Handlock builds fall. I believe it is relative to other less ambigous archetypes, but I see a lot of expensive minions, removal and AOE which is typical for a control playstyle.
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That's so not true lol. Typical bad player rant. I win most of my mirrors before I even get to play Elysiana. And when they play Elysiana, I still generally have 7-8 cards in my deck, because those bad players who don't think skill matters, I guess they just forgot they shouldn't draw cards in this matchup. Turn 3 shield block, much skill such coin flip, LOL.
Also never seeing anyone with Baleful Banker, maybe start with this, remove this card from your deck, it'll get better.
Giving this one a try. Thanks!
I love how everyone gravitates to this definition of all things rather than the real point. IMO, handlock can be loosely classified as a borderline control deck but OP's own words "First true control deck I've ever piloted for an extended period of time" makes me think it should be something less arbitrary
The unbiased fact is that handlock is closer to a midrange deck than something like control warrior on a spectrum of aggro and control. There's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with handlock players. The only one implying that they're inferior somehow is yourself. While I can't speak for the sentiments of the other people pointing out handlock is a questionable control deck, I don't see any of them saying they're "better" than other players for enjoying control decks nor that OP is a "worse" player for not enjoying a "real" control deck
You're right, I misspoke. It's not skillbased outside of rank 25. I don't know where you found players who are drawing cards in a control warrior mirror but it sure as hell isn't a rank where stats are relevant
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handlock has always been control, you aren't trying to finish the game by turns 5-7, yes it might happen if you play an "early" giant, but to play an early giant you need to literally do nothing for the first 4 turns if you dont have the coin, and after giant you still sit back controling your opponent's board or protecting your giant,
Evenlock is midrange because you can backup your giant with even more friends like Faceless Shambler or Hooked Reaver and is a more minion centric deck
I have always thought control vs control was fun - That is probably the easiest matchup for me as I would consider myself to be a good resource manager. Also A lot of people don't know how to play control priest the right way (Not talking about taunt wall, otk or ressurrect priest here, but the good ol attrition priest).
I could have guessed you would say that. This is outdated though, you should say I'm rank 50.
Get good now. You didn't lose you mirror because of a coin flip, period.
thank god i didnt took the noob train and crafted elysiana instead of the stupid bomb warrior.
now i can enjoy both warrior and control shaman.
Handlock was and never and will never be control, all pros will agree to this. If u start putting control cards like siphon and twisting, in the deck u will make the deck weaker. Better to have more proactive cards.
Really? It isn't an agro deck. It is not a tempo deck. It's not generally a combo deck. And it isn't a midrange curve deck.
It most resembles a control deck that plays the game for big value moves and focuses heavily on clearing an opponent's threats while using high value plays to push damage. That sounds pretty control like to me. It does often try for an early Giant drop, which can sometimes end a game quickly, but that's not always how it wins.
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Its more like an aggro deck that starts on turn 4 and uses big minions, many people mistake the deck for a control and build it purely and also missplay alot with it because of it.
The definitions of aggro was updated...
An Agro deck should pose a persistent damage threat to an opponent, always pressing on offense. Handlock does not work like that. It looks for opportunities to flip the board and then exploit the advantages. It hopes its big drops can't be quickly countered.
I think the only way in which it is not controlled is that it doesn't fatigue very well.
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Handlock does work like that, u put a threat on board every turn. As i said, all pros will agree that it isnt a control deck and u will for sure lose alot more with it if u threat it like that. The name handlock is from an old deck that started back when there wasnt any expansions, the deck was a proactive deck that pushed alot of damage on the midgame, if u put alot of control cards in it, it will become a control deck, but it will no longer be able to carry the name handlock.
I have been having fun with my Deathrattle Priest Control deck. The Convincing Infiltrators really help keep check on the board.
Handlock is a control deck, it just plays more proactively against other conventional control decks like Control Warrior. Doomsayer, Shadowflame, Hellfire, Siphon Soul, Omega Agent, Lord Godfrey etc. are control cards. Or which lists are you referring to? I don't know where your claim "all pros will agree that it isn't a control deck" comes from, but I'm interested to hear the names of these pros.
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I play some very fun control decks:
-Shudderwock
-Mech Paladin
-Summon Mage
-Shuffle Warlock
-Heal Druid
-Shadowform Priest
Here's the list I'm using in case anyones curious. Took out the usual silence package because I feel that its too slow.
Maybe not the most control-ish deck ever, but that's kind of impossible to do with warlock without a hero card. Jaraxxus is pretty necessary to close out games, as are Rafaam and the Giants. I think Belligerent Gnome is pretty underrated as a way to deal with aggro, its great at setting up plays with Hellfire and Mortal Coil.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Barista Omega Agent is so damn nasty!!!
Fun > Meta
Only 3 classes have Hero cards. so only 3 classes can play control for now. Either Blizzard has to release Hero cards for more classes or HoF Hunter, Warrior and Shaman ones.