Rogue is losing a lot at rotation so I doubt they’ll do anything about it until after that
Of the current rogue lists, its really only losing Eviscerate (which matters a lot). Pen Flinger is really the only card that I have a problem with.
Would it make sense as a "Spellburst: At Turn End..."? It's still OK as a combo activator but we don't have to deal with the 25 interactions a turn that currently occurs.
You don't wanna know how many possible combos are available on wild with Pen Flinger :D
Am I less of a bad person if I only play whirlkick rogue? I really only have rogue, hunter, and shaman cards. I don't like the highlander hunter and I don't have cards for meme hunter decks. Shaman is all aggro too unless I want to play a meme deck. And I don't think I'm good enough to get to legend playing meme decks against all of those aggro rogues lol. Maybe I could but it would take forever.
I don't even like to play the aggro rogue anyways. Yea I suppose it's good. But I feel like I win at a higher rate with whirlkick rogue. Maybe I'm bad at the aggro deck or something, but there's so many decks that I just feel like I auto lose to. Token druid, warrior, that new mage deck with spell damage and tons of spells absolutely wrecks the deck and there's tons of those mages on the ladder. I also don't like losing once someone puts up a taunt or does some lifesteal shenanigans like the combo DH deck. I just hate games where I lose due to luck of the draw. That's why I play whirlkick rogue. I like to have that potential to puzzle my way through any matchup and find different ways to win. I feel like whirlkick is a way better deck.
It annoys me to play vs the aggro rogue all the time too, but I can beat it with whirlkick so it's all good.
But still, do I count as an annoying rogue player playing whirlkick? lol
no not really, you aren't a bad person, i've been saying this forever, while hearthstone isn't expensive to be competitive in (you only need a good deck composed of 30 cards to compete) it's expensive if you want to play multiple decks or meme, if you're either a f2p or just can't afford a lot of packs then the sensible move is to actually play what you can afford.
Am I less of a bad person if I only play whirlkick rogue? I really only have rogue, hunter, and shaman cards. I don't like the highlander hunter and I don't have cards for meme hunter decks. Shaman is all aggro too unless I want to play a meme deck. And I don't think I'm good enough to get to legend playing meme decks against all of those aggro rogues lol. Maybe I could but it would take forever.
I don't even like to play the aggro rogue anyways. Yea I suppose it's good. But I feel like I win at a higher rate with whirlkick rogue. Maybe I'm bad at the aggro deck or something, but there's so many decks that I just feel like I auto lose to. Token druid, warrior, that new mage deck with spell damage and tons of spells absolutely wrecks the deck and there's tons of those mages on the ladder. I also don't like losing once someone puts up a taunt or does some lifesteal shenanigans like the combo DH deck. I just hate games where I lose due to luck of the draw. That's why I play whirlkick rogue. I like to have that potential to puzzle my way through any matchup and find different ways to win. I feel like whirlkick is a way better deck.
It annoys me to play vs the aggro rogue all the time too, but I can beat it with whirlkick so it's all good.
But still, do I count as an annoying rogue player playing whirlkick? lol
I love Whirlkick rogue, I feel exactly the same about the deck as you do.
Secret passage should operate like adrenaline rush in alpha. Discard the unused cards at the end of the turn. This is coming from a rogue player, I really hate this card because it is so design limiting. Never getting burn again, never getting back old 2 mana blade storm. Never getting healing or solid removal. Just because of this card.
Reminds me of the many, many times I've heard that Rogue would never get any "good" spells because of Preparation, which was nerfed almost 2 years ago during Rise of Shadows. And in those 2 years, few expensive Rogue spells were added, and many of them have a cost reduction mechanic anyway (Candle Breath, Malevolent Strike, Cutting Class). Or how Gadgetzan Auctioneer would need to leave, because it would prevent cheap spells and would be an auto-include in every Rogue deck forever. Haven't seen it in a long time, despite cheap spells, even in in Rogue. And instead of getting HoF'd, it's even in the Core set.
As a "rogue player" you should have heard by now that Rogue isn't supposed to get things like AoE and healing, period. Not because of card X or Y, but because it simply isn't what Rogue is supposed to be about. You might as well enjoy the cheap refill. Nevermind, that you actually got solid removal and burst recently with Nitroboost Poison and Prize Plunderer, the latter being solid specifically because of it.
Anyways, it remains to be seen how "problematic" Rogue is after the rotation. Whirlkick Rogue will disappear, Edwin will disappear, and we were supposed to see a nerf just a few days ago. They haven't said what they'd nerf exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nitroboost is getting axed soon anyway. Stealth Rogue is probably going to stay regardless, since it won't have to replace much, but whether it's going to be strong or not will depend on what other classes get as well.
First of all. People are aloud to play the game as they wish. Some of us don’t like playing brain dead face rogue decks. Just would like to see some cards that help the thief mechanic and don’t help face rogue. And stealth rogue is boring AF. I play this game to have fun.
Bbbbbbbbbbbbb: While I understand the frustration about this deck, "never" is a little bit of an exaggeration, considering that nobody cares about Wild and Passage rotates next year. And 2 mana Blade Storm is not nerfed because of Passage, that makes no sense at all.
Passage should cost 3 imo, or DISCARD every card you have in hand at the end of your turn. But they don't want to change anything before rotation, so w/e. I can't wait for everyone to complain about aggro dh after rotation. Can't we just have a good anti-aggro tech in standard and nerfs to secret mage and kingsbane rogue in wild?
I am playing in Standard and I am so tired of meeting only Rogues. Since the last nerfs, I mostly find rogues on ladder. And initially it was okay, but I am the only one who finds it boring to go up against the same deck / class for something like 10 games in a row? I know that there is going to be a new expansion in two weeks but it is so frustrating to meet something like 40% rogues on ladder. Not to speak of 'It wasnt'me' spammed all over again every game....... Am I just being unlucky or does any one else notice this?
This has been said 1 trillion times........you should find another game to play buddy. There ia a reason the rewards track was introduced. The game is nothing more than a grind with certain decks that win more against others. Deal with how the game works and enjoy your free gold just for spending time playing. They made the game even easier since you don't even have to win anything to progress on the gold road. I can play to d5 with decks I make to so achievements and complete quests without much effort. Seriously it gets so old hearing the same washed out tired complaining all the time. I used to play for the 30 wins to see how much gold I could make if I played everyday for the entire season. I made 12000 once and never bothered to waste my time with it again. I'll have 16000 this season and I put in no effort after i hit rank 50 on the RT 3 weeks into the season.
If you encounter rogue almost half the time on ladder use a deck to beat it. Once you switch you wont encounter a single rogue until you lose enough games so the syystem matches you against a deck you have a better chance of beating.
The game is designed that way for a reason. The more you win the game matches you against opponents who are winning as much as you until you lose. If you lose too many times it will match you against a deck you have a better chance to beat. Learn how to manipulate draw chance and give yourself the best rng odds at winning. Once you realize even a 70% chance to draw the card needed to win still fails 30% of the time not even the best player can win when that happens. Its a random card game. If you see the same deck all the time then you should know what cards it runs and what plays it makes to beat your deck. If the matchup is unfavored its for a reason because no matter how good you play the unfavored deck you will lose more than you win so why would you be upset over it ? HS isnt a contest or a way to impress your friends its a hilarious card game made to rake in profits for the company and the players to waste time laughing at and hopefully enjoy playing. Get a grip man and start working on achivements and getting all the free packs you can because there really is nothing else to do in the game besides that. You will eventually get a legend cardback and after that you will realize legend is nothing more than the same old game with the same old decks you have been playing the same old entire time to get there.
A lot of heavy control decks, especially warriors, can deal easily with rogues but soon they start to get any space in the meta Tickatus ruin everything, that is why so many rogues, no one like to play a game you don't have any chance to win, blame Tickatus for this BS meta.
I swear tickatus complaints have become hearthstone's own version of Godwin's Law.
Because is true, a heavy control oriented (not tempo one) warrior deck will destroy any hyper agressive rogue easily but soon they start to be in the ladder all Tickatus decks will emerge at once, that is how a meta works, without Tickatus rogue will be a much lower problem.
I swear tickatus complaints have become hearthstone's own version of Godwin's Law.
Because is true, a heavy control oriented (not tempo one) warrior deck will destroy any hyper agressive rogue easily but soon they start to be in the ladder all Tickatus decks will emerge at once, that is how a meta works, without Tickatus rogue will be a much lower problem.
Indeed, but it seems hypocritical to say that Control Warrior would destroy one deck and give it a 0% chance of winning, and then turn around and complain that another deck does the same to it.
If Control Warrior is a hard counter to Aggro Rogue, then isn't it fitting that it has it's own hard counter? (Besides Rez Priest)
worst of all, once Risky Skipper goes, theres no direct counter to Stealth Aggro Rogue anymore, LUL. Blizzard was thinking ahead with their 150 IQ development team.
There’s no direct counter to Stealth Aggro Rogue? That’s not true at all...
Demon Hunter has Immolation Aura, Felscream Blast, Shardshatter Mystic, and Dreadlord’s Bite.
Druid has an insane amount of Healing and Ramp and can cheat out big taunts for days.
Hunter has lots of defense in the form of Explosive Trap and Freezing Trap and 9/10 will out-aggro Rogue.
Mage will have Shooting Star, has Firebrand, Combustion, Imprisoned Observer, Cone of Cold, Flamestrike, and Mask of Cthun.
Paladin has Consecration, Reckoning, and a whole lot of Healing and Taunts.
Priest has Soul Mirror, Hysteria, and I’m sure will receive something annoying in the Barrens set.
Rogue has Shadowjeweler Hanar for easy access to protective secrets. Also Rogue can put-Aggro another Rogue.
Shaman has Landslide, Lightning Storm, Dunk Tank, Tidal Wave, The Lurker Below, Shattered Rumbler, and lots of Taunts and Healing through Tidal Surge/Wave and Groundskeeper.
Warlock has School Spirits, Cascading Disaster, Hysteria, and lots of healing and Taunts.
Warrior has Whirlwind, Minefield, Bladestorm, Bulwark of Azzinoth, Lord Barov +Sword and Board/Shield Slam/etc, Plus tons of Armor generation and Taunts.
Neutral has a lot of powerful options such as C’thun, Armor Vendor, Wretched Tutor, Scavenging Shivarra, Baron Geddon, and Explosive Sheep will be returning, which is a HUGE HIT to Stealth Rogue.
There are a lot of counters, you just have to think outside the box
The problem is card draw is, or WAS supposed to be anyways, one of Rogues main "class identity" weaknesses back in the day. Now it's laughably dismissed as Rogue has one of the best draw kits in the game. Combine that with strong aggro tools, and all it does in encourage toxic aggro decks to dump entire hands and get quick, easy refills.
I get that TCG's like hearthstone can't and shouldn't exist with out aggro at all, but, damn. Blizz needs to compromise. You can't just appeal to aggro players, control and combo styles need support too. Boost one type, boost the others to stay competitive.
I don't care if pen flinger gets nerfed or not but damn, secret passage DOES need a nerf. Cut the cards drawn to 3 or 2 and mana won't be a problem. I don't think cutting class is as big an issue because it's strictly only drawing two cards and you do need to at least set up a strong weapon to cheapen it. But drawing 4 at a time with Passage is just nuts. It's almost like a Zephyrus for Rogues to get their deck's win condition.
For me personally Whirlkick Rogue is the most fun I've had in this game for a while. I've always liked the quirky combo / card generation decks with Rogue and now that I can have fun and with at the same time, it's been a blast. Aggro Rogue is a pretty bad matchup tho. Generally I feel, Pen Flinger is an annoying piece of sh*it to play against, no matter the deck or class. Considering Secret Passage, I feel it's the card that has made these decks viable in competitive environment without them being too powerful. Especially with Whirlkick Rogue, you still need to navigate the deck well and to know what you're doing with it.
I am playing in Standard and I am so tired of meeting only Rogues. Since the last nerfs, I mostly find rogues on ladder. And initially it was okay, but I am the only one who finds it boring to go up against the same deck / class for something like 10 games in a row? I know that there is going to be a new expansion in two weeks but it is so frustrating to meet something like 40% rogues on ladder. Not to speak of 'It wasnt'me' spammed all over again every game....... Am I just being unlucky or does any one else notice this?
It's high playrate right now because it's a no skill deck.
That aside, it isn't that great. If you're having trouble against it, Token Druid is 70% winrate against them, get some free wins in.
I am playing in Standard and I am so tired of meeting only Rogues. Since the last nerfs, I mostly find rogues on ladder. And initially it was okay, but I am the only one who finds it boring to go up against the same deck / class for something like 10 games in a row? I know that there is going to be a new expansion in two weeks but it is so frustrating to meet something like 40% rogues on ladder. Not to speak of 'It wasnt'me' spammed all over again every game....... Am I just being unlucky or does any one else notice this?
It's high playrate right now because it's a no skill deck.
That aside, it isn't that great. If you're having trouble against it, Token Druid is 70% winrate against them, get some free wins in.
Facts. The majority of the decks in the game at the moment could be piloted by a garage door opener. I always get a laugh when I browse the HS reddit page & read thread after thread about how "skill testing" all these face decks are. I suppose counting to 30 could be pretty skill testing for a lot of players, but I digress.
You don't wanna know how many possible combos are available on wild with Pen Flinger :D
no not really, you aren't a bad person, i've been saying this forever, while hearthstone isn't expensive to be competitive in (you only need a good deck composed of 30 cards to compete) it's expensive if you want to play multiple decks or meme, if you're either a f2p or just can't afford a lot of packs then the sensible move is to actually play what you can afford.
I love Whirlkick rogue, I feel exactly the same about the deck as you do.
First of all. People are aloud to play the game as they wish. Some of us don’t like playing brain dead face rogue decks. Just would like to see some cards that help the thief mechanic and don’t help face rogue. And stealth rogue is boring AF. I play this game to have fun.
such salt much BM.
Bbbbbbbbbbbbb: While I understand the frustration about this deck, "never" is a little bit of an exaggeration, considering that nobody cares about Wild and Passage rotates next year. And 2 mana Blade Storm is not nerfed because of Passage, that makes no sense at all.
Passage should cost 3 imo, or DISCARD every card you have in hand at the end of your turn. But they don't want to change anything before rotation, so w/e. I can't wait for everyone to complain about aggro dh after rotation. Can't we just have a good anti-aggro tech in standard and nerfs to secret mage and kingsbane rogue in wild?
This has been said 1 trillion times........you should find another game to play buddy. There ia a reason the rewards track was introduced. The game is nothing more than a grind with certain decks that win more against others. Deal with how the game works and enjoy your free gold just for spending time playing. They made the game even easier since you don't even have to win anything to progress on the gold road. I can play to d5 with decks I make to so achievements and complete quests without much effort. Seriously it gets so old hearing the same washed out tired complaining all the time. I used to play for the 30 wins to see how much gold I could make if I played everyday for the entire season. I made 12000 once and never bothered to waste my time with it again. I'll have 16000 this season and I put in no effort after i hit rank 50 on the RT 3 weeks into the season.
If you encounter rogue almost half the time on ladder use a deck to beat it. Once you switch you wont encounter a single rogue until you lose enough games so the syystem matches you against a deck you have a better chance of beating.
The game is designed that way for a reason. The more you win the game matches you against opponents who are winning as much as you until you lose. If you lose too many times it will match you against a deck you have a better chance to beat. Learn how to manipulate draw chance and give yourself the best rng odds at winning. Once you realize even a 70% chance to draw the card needed to win still fails 30% of the time not even the best player can win when that happens. Its a random card game. If you see the same deck all the time then you should know what cards it runs and what plays it makes to beat your deck. If the matchup is unfavored its for a reason because no matter how good you play the unfavored deck you will lose more than you win so why would you be upset over it
? HS isnt a contest or a way to impress your friends its a hilarious card game made to rake in profits for the company and the players to waste time laughing at and hopefully enjoy playing. Get a grip man and start working on achivements and getting all the free packs you can because there really is nothing else to do in the game besides that. You will eventually get a legend cardback and after that you will realize legend is nothing more than the same old game with the same old decks you have been playing the same old entire time to get there.
Well, annoy bot, lone champion and explosive sheep are all in the core, so maybe anti aggro will be a thing? I am optimistic for now.
A lot of heavy control decks, especially warriors, can deal easily with rogues but soon they start to get any space in the meta Tickatus ruin everything, that is why so many rogues, no one like to play a game you don't have any chance to win, blame Tickatus for this BS meta.
I swear tickatus complaints have become hearthstone's own version of Godwin's Law.
Because is true, a heavy control oriented (not tempo one) warrior deck will destroy any hyper agressive rogue easily but soon they start to be in the ladder all Tickatus decks will emerge at once, that is how a meta works, without Tickatus rogue will be a much lower problem.
Aggro rogue is what all the people who constantly whine about RNG and card generation deserve. I'm glad it's here
Indeed, but it seems hypocritical to say that Control Warrior would destroy one deck and give it a 0% chance of winning, and then turn around and complain that another deck does the same to it.
If Control Warrior is a hard counter to Aggro Rogue, then isn't it fitting that it has it's own hard counter? (Besides Rez Priest)
Change Pen Flinger tons card which can be used as much as you want but at the end of the turn it gets discarded if in your hand
There’s no direct counter to Stealth Aggro Rogue? That’s not true at all...
Demon Hunter has Immolation Aura, Felscream Blast, Shardshatter Mystic, and Dreadlord’s Bite.
Druid has an insane amount of Healing and Ramp and can cheat out big taunts for days.
Hunter has lots of defense in the form of Explosive Trap and Freezing Trap and 9/10 will out-aggro Rogue.
Mage will have Shooting Star, has Firebrand, Combustion, Imprisoned Observer, Cone of Cold, Flamestrike, and Mask of Cthun.
Paladin has Consecration, Reckoning, and a whole lot of Healing and Taunts.
Priest has Soul Mirror, Hysteria, and I’m sure will receive something annoying in the Barrens set.
Rogue has Shadowjeweler Hanar for easy access to protective secrets. Also Rogue can put-Aggro another Rogue.
Shaman has Landslide, Lightning Storm, Dunk Tank, Tidal Wave, The Lurker Below, Shattered Rumbler, and lots of Taunts and Healing through Tidal Surge/Wave and Groundskeeper.
Warlock has School Spirits, Cascading Disaster, Hysteria, and lots of healing and Taunts.
Warrior has Whirlwind, Minefield, Bladestorm, Bulwark of Azzinoth, Lord Barov +Sword and Board/Shield Slam/etc, Plus tons of Armor generation and Taunts.
Neutral has a lot of powerful options such as C’thun, Armor Vendor, Wretched Tutor, Scavenging Shivarra, Baron Geddon, and Explosive Sheep will be returning, which is a HUGE HIT to Stealth Rogue.
There are a lot of counters, you just have to think outside the box
The problem is card draw is, or WAS supposed to be anyways, one of Rogues main "class identity" weaknesses back in the day. Now it's laughably dismissed as Rogue has one of the best draw kits in the game. Combine that with strong aggro tools, and all it does in encourage toxic aggro decks to dump entire hands and get quick, easy refills.
I get that TCG's like hearthstone can't and shouldn't exist with out aggro at all, but, damn. Blizz needs to compromise. You can't just appeal to aggro players, control and combo styles need support too. Boost one type, boost the others to stay competitive.
I don't care if pen flinger gets nerfed or not but damn, secret passage DOES need a nerf. Cut the cards drawn to 3 or 2 and mana won't be a problem. I don't think cutting class is as big an issue because it's strictly only drawing two cards and you do need to at least set up a strong weapon to cheapen it. But drawing 4 at a time with Passage is just nuts. It's almost like a Zephyrus for Rogues to get their deck's win condition.
For me personally Whirlkick Rogue is the most fun I've had in this game for a while. I've always liked the quirky combo / card generation decks with Rogue and now that I can have fun and with at the same time, it's been a blast. Aggro Rogue is a pretty bad matchup tho. Generally I feel, Pen Flinger is an annoying piece of sh*it to play against, no matter the deck or class. Considering Secret Passage, I feel it's the card that has made these decks viable in competitive environment without them being too powerful. Especially with Whirlkick Rogue, you still need to navigate the deck well and to know what you're doing with it.
It's high playrate right now because it's a no skill deck.
That aside, it isn't that great. If you're having trouble against it, Token Druid is 70% winrate against them, get some free wins in.
Facts. The majority of the decks in the game at the moment could be piloted by a garage door opener. I always get a laugh when I browse the HS reddit page & read thread after thread about how "skill testing" all these face decks are. I suppose counting to 30 could be pretty skill testing for a lot of players, but I digress.
Anyhoo... A laugh a day, keeps the doctor away.
I'm really surprised I don't see more token Druid. It's is really strong.
Galavant Animation
Pen Flinger should cost 2 mana