MtG had this problem for a long time. The solution there is that you can never do something infinitely, you need to state a number of times that it happens, and then your opponent gets to respond.
By that logic, the Rager should survive. In this case, i guess it's up to the developers to decide.
^ This is what popped in my head too. Or rather how in mtg, being the player that initiated a truly infinite loop caused you to lose.
Replacing those who spend the most money on the game with those with most free time to grind stuff doesn't really sound like a surefire way to make an equal and fair environment. Some people spend time and others spend money. I personally spend both, in varying amounts depending on my interest. If someone wants to throw crazy amounts of money at the game so they don't need to grind and have instant gratification, that's ok. If someone wants to play 10 hours a day and get all the cards I do without spending a cent on the tavern pass, that's fine too. It doesn't detract from my experience, since I have found my own medium and am happy with it.
I have been beating them fairly consistently with a dragon control paladin. The deck runs a crazy amount of healing with just bronze explorer and amber weaver, but what really seals the win against them is lightforged cariel. Most of the time, they don't seem to play viper, or just don't draw it in time.
Indeed. I haven't played it much this expansion, but I have fond memories of quest hunter vs token druid where I managed to keep the field clear by throw spells and hero powers at it. Eventually they just give up once they're out of steam! The deck just feels more fun to play slower, more controlly and less combo or aggro. Then again, I just like longer games.
My favorite deck of all time has to have been Razakus Highlander machine gun shadow reaper priest. Quest hunter is one of the few hunter decks that is actually fun.
Hey, same! Or at least on of my favorites, the game peaked around Un'goro lMO. I just really liked shadowreaper anduin. The other hunter deck I really enjoyed was spell hunter with deathstalker rexxar, so me liking quest hunter was a give in. Honestly though, I did like the death knight's decks better than quest hunter.
I wouldn't mind if the discover system got rework so that you couldn't ever discover the same card twice in one game. I think that it would make it a little less random over all, and limit some of the crazier "discover a discover" card chains.
That would have prevented the shadowstep and panda importer nonsense as well.
More to the point, if purpose of Kazakusan is to be anti fatigue, then you WANT to draw your whole deck and delay him as long as possible. As long as your deck contains five other dragons, you are guaranteed to have drawn 4 of them before your last card, meaning you can always have the option play Kazakusan before fatigue. The nerf did literally nothing in that regard.
Also I doubt playing 4 dragons will be hard at all in standard since Amalgam of The Deep is a thing.
Apart from the fact that various decks have an answer to this, the offender here is 100% Switcheroo and definitely not Twin-Fin
if we talk natural counters, a.k.a. cards being played naturally in the deck without the purpose of hard countering twin fin, priest decks have silence and druids run one copy of the silence minion. And control paladins, which are rare, run equality. Nothing else can reliably stop them, maybe shaman if they manage to chain enough freezes. If every other deck starts including mass silence just for this marginal bad, 48% winrate deck, they make all their matchups worse.
So I guess the question is this: "Does including a dedicated counter lower their overall winrate?" Or in other words, are there enough free wins from effortless beating switcheroo to make up for the other games that you lose that you would have otherwise won? Also worth considering how everyone including something to beat switcheroo priest would push it out of the meta. As you said, it is a bad deck that the best of times. But this is how a meta naturally changes over time, rather than abruptly with waves of nerfs.
You know, it really does sound like you don't want to have your views challenged. There is in fact a certain thread just for that... If only someone would provide a link!
Because there is nothing wrong with my views. I'm correct and you're not.
And there it is! The self declaration of closed mindedness! There is no point in discussing things with someone like you, because nothing is going change your mind. Talking to you is literally a waste of everyone's time. That is why there is a place where replies are discouraged and you can spout whatever nonsense you want, much to the amusement of the rest of us. But, please continue. It is a slow day at work and I could use the distraction.
You know, it really does sound like you don't want to have your views challenged. There is in fact a certain thread just for that... If only someone would provide a link!
Maybe I don't give a fuck. The game is busted. Period.
Cool. Turn it off and go outside and interact with the real world. It's a win-win for all of us.
Pot calling kettle black. Are you upset I don't suck the game's balls clean like yourself?
You do realize that by just playing the game, you are giving it's balls same treatment, right? Playing it and complaining about it is just being a salty hypocrite. In other words, if you hate it so much that you aren't extracting that spark of joy, maybe devote your time elsewhere.
Good luck dealing with 2x 40 attack boars with charge in wild on any class except mage (yes, that happens later than t3 but they can still do 2x 20 attack boars with charge on t3 with coin). And even for mage you need one of two specific secrets and some follow-up.
Sudden BetrayalMisdirection can stop both attacks plus plenty of other secrets that negate one of the 20 attack boars.
1
So this is rare, a topic that belongs in the pepper thread! (It's the opposite of the salt thread and is for bragging or sharing good experience.)
1
^ This is what popped in my head too. Or rather how in mtg, being the player that initiated a truly infinite loop caused you to lose.
0
Demon Hunter by long shot, but out of the 9 original classes, it's rogue.
3
Replacing those who spend the most money on the game with those with most free time to grind stuff doesn't really sound like a surefire way to make an equal and fair environment. Some people spend time and others spend money. I personally spend both, in varying amounts depending on my interest. If someone wants to throw crazy amounts of money at the game so they don't need to grind and have instant gratification, that's ok. If someone wants to play 10 hours a day and get all the cards I do without spending a cent on the tavern pass, that's fine too. It doesn't detract from my experience, since I have found my own medium and am happy with it.
0
I have been beating them fairly consistently with a dragon control paladin. The deck runs a crazy amount of healing with just bronze explorer and amber weaver, but what really seals the win against them is lightforged cariel. Most of the time, they don't seem to play viper, or just don't draw it in time.
0
Indeed. I haven't played it much this expansion, but I have fond memories of quest hunter vs token druid where I managed to keep the field clear by throw spells and hero powers at it. Eventually they just give up once they're out of steam! The deck just feels more fun to play slower, more controlly and less combo or aggro. Then again, I just like longer games.
0
Hey, same! Or at least on of my favorites, the game peaked around Un'goro lMO. I just really liked shadowreaper anduin. The other hunter deck I really enjoyed was spell hunter with deathstalker rexxar, so me liking quest hunter was a give in. Honestly though, I did like the death knight's decks better than quest hunter.
11
We can crudely nerf the card by saying "your charge minions have +2 attack."
1
I wouldn't mind if the discover system got rework so that you couldn't ever discover the same card twice in one game. I think that it would make it a little less random over all, and limit some of the crazier "discover a discover" card chains.
That would have prevented the shadowstep and panda importer nonsense as well.
20
First of all, an all bold post is obnoxious.
More to the point, if purpose of Kazakusan is to be anti fatigue, then you WANT to draw your whole deck and delay him as long as possible. As long as your deck contains five other dragons, you are guaranteed to have drawn 4 of them before your last card, meaning you can always have the option play Kazakusan before fatigue. The nerf did literally nothing in that regard.
Also I doubt playing 4 dragons will be hard at all in standard since Amalgam of The Deep is a thing.
1
So I guess the question is this: "Does including a dedicated counter lower their overall winrate?" Or in other words, are there enough free wins from effortless beating switcheroo to make up for the other games that you lose that you would have otherwise won? Also worth considering how everyone including something to beat switcheroo priest would push it out of the meta. As you said, it is a bad deck that the best of times. But this is how a meta naturally changes over time, rather than abruptly with waves of nerfs.
0
And there it is! The self declaration of closed mindedness! There is no point in discussing things with someone like you, because nothing is going change your mind. Talking to you is literally a waste of everyone's time. That is why there is a place where replies are discouraged and you can spout whatever nonsense you want, much to the amusement of the rest of us. But, please continue. It is a slow day at work and I could use the distraction.
0
You know, it really does sound like you don't want to have your views challenged. There is in fact a certain thread just for that... If only someone would provide a link!
0
You do realize that by just playing the game, you are giving it's balls same treatment, right? Playing it and complaining about it is just being a salty hypocrite. In other words, if you hate it so much that you aren't extracting that spark of joy, maybe devote your time elsewhere.
1
Sudden Betrayal Misdirection can stop both attacks plus plenty of other secrets that negate one of the 20 attack boars.