Hearthpwn

Quote from DeckDjinn >>

The side-effects from the nerfs are that other archetypes take over like a shitstorm, because i just faces 6 otk priests in a row. They could've just made kingsbane heal for half it's damage and let it be permanent like b4, in that instance it heals 5 at a 10 dmg weapon which isn't more than Uther does. It would'nt have killed the archetype and so i wouldn't have to play against only heal-a-din and big priest now. Oh and the secret hunter ofcourse.

Besides nerfs why not upscale some left for dead cards that should've supported the non-playable archetypes now. I think smart balancing goes both ways, anyone agrees?

 

Buffing bad cards is a returning topic here, but they have stated that they rather print new ones, so it is not really worth talking about. Also, the most recent intended buff, UTH from 4 to 2 mana, was a complete disaster...

Quote from Hooghout >>

So instead of nerfing even the last remaining pieces of the Basic and Classic set I would recommend to create new cards that actually are playable competitively.

Nerfing is done to create 'design space'. Limiting future card design because of the OPness now is not what you want.

 Creating design space at the very beginning of an expansion?

Quote from Fleiva >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

So instead of nerfing even the last remaining pieces of the Basic and Classic set I would recommend to create new cards that actually are playable competitively.

Nerfing is done to create 'design space'. Limiting future card design because of the OPness now is not what you want.

 Creating design space at the very beginning of an expansion?

 When you consider that the next set is already completed and they are working on set 2 of 2019, the release date of expansions, while very significant to players, is of no significance to the development team.

Studderwock WON'T be missed either. What a garbage deck.

RIP Druid!

They kinda lost their class identity with these nerfs and the class itself is now kinda borderline unplayable. It upsets me greatly and to see druids WR at the moment (43%!!!) they need something massive next expansion to be able to compete again. The issue is that because of Wild Growth druid has the worst early game of all the classes, and now they need a strong early game to survive the first 5 turns of the game where they cant do anything.

All together I don't see them printing anything strong for druids next expansion because the class was strong for a long time. I am a druid main and I now have nothing to play so these next couple of months are going to be very dull indeed. 

Quote from Seniyad >>

The history of Druid nerfs or how I call it - Groundhog day.

Innervate - I am totally fine with this nerf as I don't like cards that cost only 0 mana.
- Now reads: Gain 1 Mana Crystal this turn only. (Down from 2)

Savagery - After it's nerf I've never seen this card again.
- Text changed to: "Deal damage equal to your hero's Attack to a minion." Mana cost reduced to 1, from 3.
- Previously: Deal damage equal to your hero's Attack to all enemy minions. [2 mana]

Wild Growth - The card people associate the most with the Druid class.
- Cost increased from 2 to 3.

Keeper of the Grove - I've never seen this card again since it got nerfed - not even in fun builds.
- Stats changed from 2/4 to 2/2.

Force of Nature - I always disliked the possibility of dealing 14 damage in one turn but compared to current OTK decks that's a laughable amount of damage.
- Cost reduced from 6 to 5. Card text changed from "Summon three 2/2 Treants with Charge that die at the end of the turn." to "Summon three 2/2 Treants." Treants summoned by this spell no longer have Charge but no longer die at the end of the turn.
- Treant now costs 2, up from 1.

Nourish - This card has rarely seen play until Ancient of Lore got nerfed. Since then it was a staple in most Druid decks.
- Cost increased from 5 to 6.

Ancient of Lore - This card was a staple in most Druid decks and has been used instead of Nourish before it got nerfed into oblivion.
- Now restores 5 health, down from 8.
- Card text changed from "Choose One - Draw 2 cards; or Restore 5 Health." to "Choose One - Draw a card; or Restore 5 Health."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are seven cards out of the Basic or Classic set that are either not playable anymore at all or are only playable in fringe situations / fun decks. So a huge amount (I think it's the biggest among all classes) of evergreen cards aren't useable competitively anymore. That means the Druid class is heavily dependent on every single new set.

I think most of these Basic / Classic cards were fine as they used to be and got nerfed into oblivion for no reason (except Innervate).
The problem why there are no new archetypes within the Druid class is not the Basic or Classic set - it's the new sets that don't have good options to build new decks that aren't OTK or Combo decks.

There is a reason why Druids want to ramp in nearly all of their archetypes - because their early game is simply weaker than the early game of other classes' top decks. So instead of playing an aggro or midrange deck that is almost as good as other aggro / midrange decks it makes much more sense to play a deck that belongs to the best ones within its archytype. And the past told us that this was only achievable by playing OTK or Combo decks (Token, Malygos, Togwaggle, Mecha'thun, Taunt). One of the few decks that wasn't either OTK or Combo and was actually still playable was Spiteful Druid - until Spiteful Summoner got nerfed.

So instead of nerfing even the last remaining pieces of the Basic and Classic set I would recommend to create new cards that actually are playable competitively.

Druids deserve every bit of nerf they get in their classic and basic. The class had most number of OP classic cards along with Mage and Rogue, that's why Druid always had a tier 1 or 2 deck. Druid and Mage has been largely fixed, up next is Rogue's turn.

Yeah since Wild Growth and Nourish have been nerfed. They should rewind Innervate back to 0 cost. They only did it because of Wild Growth

Quote from KoolCyanide >>

Yeah since Wild Growth and Nourish have been nerfed. They should rewind Innervate back to 0 cost. They only did it because of Wild Growth

Innervate still costs 0, they just changed the amount of extra mana crystals you obtain during the turn you play this card (from two to one). :P

Yeah, that's right. 2 mana instead of 1.

druid banished from ladder :D

I disagree with the nerf to Wild Growth.  #1 because it's such an iconic card and part of Druid's identity (who cares if basic cards are always seen in the meta?  Anyone calling for a nerf to Northshire Cleric because it's been in every Priest deck since the beginning?)  #2 because I disagree with the new precedent of nerfing Basic cards.

Quote from Allastor13 >>

I totally agree with the Level Up! and Leeching Poison nerfs, these are awesome, the Nourish and Wild Growth I'm not so sure. I understand why but I think it's too much to nerf both of the good Ramp cards for druid. One of them sure, good idea, but both of them is a really huge hit when they could have nerfed Ultimate Infestation instead, wich is a even more problematic card in my opinion. Also considering that once the next rotation hits, druid will lose a ton of cards that make it strong, they will be in a bad spot. The only nerf that I'm not sure if I like is the one for Saronite Chain Gang. I really like that they killed the Shudderwock combo in standard but they killed the handbuff synergy of the card wich was awesome.
Also why the hell they left hunter untouched? now with the nerfs it seems they will dominate the meta.

Yep. The only reason they would nerf something like nourish, which was fairly balanced and did not see play in every druid even though its been around since the beginning, and not UI or Branching paths is dust(which equals money).  Now Blizzard is hoping that Druid players will spend more to craft hunter decks or something, but F that. 

Quote from robpcom3 >>

Quote from Allastor13 >>

I totally agree with the Level Up! and Leeching Poison nerfs, these are awesome, the Nourish and Wild Growth I'm not so sure. I understand why but I think it's too much to nerf both of the good Ramp cards for druid. One of them sure, good idea, but both of them is a really huge hit when they could have nerfed Ultimate Infestation instead, wich is a even more problematic card in my opinion. Also considering that once the next rotation hits, druid will lose a ton of cards that make it strong, they will be in a bad spot. The only nerf that I'm not sure if I like is the one for Saronite Chain Gang. I really like that they killed the Shudderwock combo in standard but they killed the handbuff synergy of the card wich was awesome.
Also why the hell they left hunter untouched? now with the nerfs it seems they will dominate the meta.

Yep. The only reason they would nerf something like nourish, which was fairly balanced and did not see play in every druid even though its been around since the beginning, and not UI or Branching paths is dust(which equals money).  Now Blizzard is hoping that Druid players will spend more to craft hunter decks or something, but F that. 

 Nourish was played in every single druid, including like 20 other cards. They nerfed it because people have been calling this game "druidstone" for far too long

Quote from C_A_W >>

Quote from Seniyad >>

The history of Druid nerfs or how I call it - Groundhog day.

Innervate - I am totally fine with this nerf as I don't like cards that cost only 0 mana.
- Now reads: Gain 1 Mana Crystal this turn only. (Down from 2)

Savagery - After it's nerf I've never seen this card again.
- Text changed to: "Deal damage equal to your hero's Attack to a minion." Mana cost reduced to 1, from 3.
- Previously: Deal damage equal to your hero's Attack to all enemy minions. [2 mana]

Wild Growth - The card people associate the most with the Druid class.
- Cost increased from 2 to 3.

Keeper of the Grove - I've never seen this card again since it got nerfed - not even in fun builds.
- Stats changed from 2/4 to 2/2.

Force of Nature - I always disliked the possibility of dealing 14 damage in one turn but compared to current OTK decks that's a laughable amount of damage.
- Cost reduced from 6 to 5. Card text changed from "Summon three 2/2 Treants with Charge that die at the end of the turn." to "Summon three 2/2 Treants." Treants summoned by this spell no longer have Charge but no longer die at the end of the turn.
- Treant now costs 2, up from 1.

Nourish - This card has rarely seen play until Ancient of Lore got nerfed. Since then it was a staple in most Druid decks.
- Cost increased from 5 to 6.

Ancient of Lore - This card was a staple in most Druid decks and has been used instead of Nourish before it got nerfed into oblivion.
- Now restores 5 health, down from 8.
- Card text changed from "Choose One - Draw 2 cards; or Restore 5 Health." to "Choose One - Draw a card; or Restore 5 Health."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are seven cards out of the Basic or Classic set that are either not playable anymore at all or are only playable in fringe situations / fun decks. So a huge amount (I think it's the biggest among all classes) of evergreen cards aren't useable competitively anymore. That means the Druid class is heavily dependent on every single new set.

I think most of these Basic / Classic cards were fine as they used to be and got nerfed into oblivion for no reason (except Innervate).
The problem why there are no new archetypes within the Druid class is not the Basic or Classic set - it's the new sets that don't have good options to build new decks that aren't OTK or Combo decks.

There is a reason why Druids want to ramp in nearly all of their archetypes - because their early game is simply weaker than the early game of other classes' top decks. So instead of playing an aggro or midrange deck that is almost as good as other aggro / midrange decks it makes much more sense to play a deck that belongs to the best ones within its archytype. And the past told us that this was only achievable by playing OTK or Combo decks (Token, Malygos, Togwaggle, Mecha'thun, Taunt). One of the few decks that wasn't either OTK or Combo and was actually still playable was Spiteful Druid - until Spiteful Summoner got nerfed.

So instead of nerfing even the last remaining pieces of the Basic and Classic set I would recommend to create new cards that actually are playable competitively.

Druids deserve every bit of nerf they get in their classic and basic. The class had most number of OP classic cards along with Mage and Rogue, that's why Druid always had a tier 1 or 2 deck. Druid and Mage has been largely fixed, up next is Rogue's turn.

 Nerf Rogue classic set? No way.

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from robpcom3 >>

Quote from Allastor13 >>

I totally agree with the Level Up! and Leeching Poison nerfs, these are awesome, the Nourish and Wild Growth I'm not so sure. I understand why but I think it's too much to nerf both of the good Ramp cards for druid. One of them sure, good idea, but both of them is a really huge hit when they could have nerfed Ultimate Infestation instead, wich is a even more problematic card in my opinion. Also considering that once the next rotation hits, druid will lose a ton of cards that make it strong, they will be in a bad spot. The only nerf that I'm not sure if I like is the one for Saronite Chain Gang. I really like that they killed the Shudderwock combo in standard but they killed the handbuff synergy of the card wich was awesome.
Also why the hell they left hunter untouched? now with the nerfs it seems they will dominate the meta.

Yep. The only reason they would nerf something like nourish, which was fairly balanced and did not see play in every druid even though its been around since the beginning, and not UI or Branching paths is dust(which equals money).  Now Blizzard is hoping that Druid players will spend more to craft hunter decks or something, but F that. 

 Nourish was played in every single druid, including like 20 other cards. They nerfed it because people have been calling this game "druidstone" for far too long

 I guess you haven't been playing for very long, but before UI was released it most certainly was not played in every deck. In fact it was only played after Druid of Lore was nerfed and even then was not in every deck. Furthermore, Druid didn't even have any tier one decks this expansion before the nerfs according to HSreplay. Whether or not people called it druid stone is fairly beside the point I made, which is they nerfed the cards in the way they did to gouge more money from players.

Quote from Kaladin >>

I disagree with the nerf to Wild Growth.  #1 because it's such an iconic card and part of Druid's identity (who cares if basic cards are always seen in the meta?  Anyone calling for a nerf to Northshire Cleric because it's been in every Priest deck since the beginning?)  #2 because I disagree with the new precedent of nerfing Basic cards.

 The difference is that Priest isn't in the Tier 1 list of EVERY EXPANSION. While Druid was. And you can't even compare 2 mana gain an extra mana crystal to northshire cleric, that needs 3 mana and getting damaged to get value. While Northshire Cleric is surely one of the strongest 1 drop cards, old Wild Growth is by far stronger. And Northshire cleric will never bring back to tier 1; except priest now gets some insane healing-support; and even then... nah.

So yes, Wild Growth probably required a nerf. Don't forget that blizzard wanted to nerf Wild Growth already back many times. Personally i think that instead of Innervate, Wild growth needed the nerf much more. So i rather have Wild Growth nerfed and maybe innervate unnerfed. I think that if blizzard want to give druid some ramp earlier, they should make Darnassus Aspirant a Classic-Card.

Quote from Velerios >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

I disagree with the nerf to Wild Growth.  #1 because it's such an iconic card and part of Druid's identity (who cares if basic cards are always seen in the meta?  Anyone calling for a nerf to Northshire Cleric because it's been in every Priest deck since the beginning?)  #2 because I disagree with the new precedent of nerfing Basic cards.

 The difference is that Priest isn't in the Tier 1 list of EVERY EXPANSION. While Druid was. And you can't even compare 2 mana gain an extra mana crystal to northshire cleric, that needs 3 mana and getting damaged to get value. While Northshire Cleric is surely one of the strongest 1 drop cards, old Wild Growth is by far stronger. And Northshire cleric will never bring back to tier 1; except priest now gets some insane healing-support; and even then... nah.

So yes, Wild Growth probably required a nerf. Don't forget that blizzard wanted to nerf Wild Growth already back many times. Personally i think that instead of Innervate, Wild growth needed the nerf much more. So i rather have Wild Growth nerfed and maybe innervate unnerfed. I think that if blizzard want to give druid some ramp earlier, they should make Darnassus Aspirant a Classic-Card.

I think other classes' relative strength or weakness is irrelevant.  Wild Growth was never the culprit in the past.  I started playing during GvG, when midrange "Force of Nature + Savage Roar for 14" was the way you won with Druid.  Wild Growth was never the oppressive card.  Instead of nerfing Wild Growth, perhaps we need to address the ridiculously strong late game (win conditions, UI) and late game support cards (Branching Paths, Spellstone, Ferocious Howl, Oaken Summons, Malfurion, Spreading Plague) that all BENEFIT from Wild Growth.

tl;dr Wild Growth isn't the problem and I stand by my original argument to not nerf such an iconic card that's in the Basic set.

It was just one card too much. Nerfing WG now and HOFing Nourish next rotation would have done the trick.

I also do not like the nerf, but I understand why. Printing other ramp options has laregly failed, and they have to be extremely careful about the power level of lategame druid cards because of ramp. The insane tempo decks required to punish ramp is not a great option either.

I hope this opens up a new identity for druid, probably centered around hyperflexibla multiple options cards, where you can form your deck to every matchup.

So what can they do to make druid NOT suck next expansion?  Print cards even more busted than branching paths and ultimate infestation?

Cause right now druid has these incredibly strong cards, and yet the nerfs were so heavy handed that it doesn't even matter.

And I don't believe in the philosophy that blizzard plans these things ahead, and will fix druid next expansion by introducing new cards.  Experience had shown that blizzard doesn't plan ahead like that when nerfs are involved.

Most likely druid will be a dumpster class for many expansions going forward

I know Odd druid wasn't really viable to begin with but the Nourish nerf totally boned my fun deck.  Odd Druid has next to no card draw now and this makes me so sad :'(