Hearthpwn

doesnt hurt Grumble or Shudderwok ? have you played a Shudderwock deck ?

the deck is legit unplayable now.

Quote from victortg95 >>

Quote from Skyryser >>

I think these nerfs are kind of weird - I commented on the article and got downvoted to oblivion within like 9 seconds.

So I'll say it here:

Saronite is a weird nerf. I've never experienced the card to be oppressive, if it gets buffed and duplicates, it gets buffed and duplicates. The Warlock Omega card is virtually the same mechanic, so wtf is going on here.

Wild Growth - I hate druid, but it's a class identity card, didn't need a nerf. So is Nourish, but I don't think that nerf is anywhere near as bad as the T2 one for Druid, and now leaves a clear open slot for a few months for prince K.

Level Up! - sad that it'll be leaving my Odd Mech Pally build, but I sure as hell am going to have it in my already OP Even Pally deck. A better nerf would've been +2(or +1)/+1 and no taunt. Make it easily clearable.

Leeching Poison - Ok this one makes sense, decent nerf, but will probably be leaving Kingsbane Rogue players foaming at the mouth.

These are WEIRD nerfs. I think it's the first time I've complained about nerfs outside of the Tess one. Saronite just blows my mind. How did Saronite get picked over so many other cards that are so much more broken?

 Saronite isnt the problem, shudderwock is. Level up isnt as powerful in even as in odd, even paladin doesnt swarm the board easily like odd paladin.

These nerfs make absolute sense.

 Shudderwock isn't even really the problem, Grumble is, but you get my point.

However, I play even pally, and I definitely swarm the board, AND I buff them with even costed spells. The thought of being able to play Tarim on a couple of dudes, then popping another one + Level Up! the next turn, on top of being able to add several more spell buffs to them seems like madness to me. I'm not exactly complaning, this is great for the deck I'm playing. It just seems to me that it's the effect that should've been nerfed, not the cost. They've killed an archetype, kept the card, and potentially buffed the shit out of something that's doing insanely well this meta.

The nerfs make sense in terms of the classes/archetypes, but the way they've gone about it does not make sense. Leeching Poison was almost right - except they should've kept the cost; now the thing can get Geisted, and that's all the healing gone for Kingsbane players.

Anyhow, it's done, and I just scrolled through my collection and realised I had 2 goldens for every one of them except Level Up!, of which I had only 1. That's a princely sum I'll put somewhere nice. I wish I hadn't hit the DE button yesterday though, I must've had around 15 Saronites and had 4 extra normal Level Ups T_T

Druid is wrecked; and is going to be a dead class post-rotation when cards like Ultimate Infestation are gone. If it's anything like what happened to Shaman, in the next set Blizzard will try and push some gimmick like Freeze Shaman that'll fail completely and make Hearthstone only have 8 classes.

Why did it take until just before rotation for cards like Level Up! to be hit?

Hunters are going to dominate the ladder. Get the face masks!

Nvm, even better nerfs

Fun fact: According to VS, Kingsbane Rogue is Tier 2 and played by 5.74% of players, Spell Hunter is Tier 1 and played by over twice the number of players (11.96%), with 23.3% of all decks being Hunter. Shudderwock Shaman is Tier 3 and played by 3.98%. All archetypes of druid combined account for 9.9% of all decks.

Yep yep, totally sensible decisions and all based on empirical evidence.

Omegafacepalm.

Quote from Skyryser >>

Fun fact: According to VS, Kingsbane Rogue is Tier 2 and played by 5.74% of players, Spell Hunter is Tier 1 and played by over twice the number of players (11.96%), with 23.3% of all decks being Hunter. Shudderwock Shaman is Tier 3 and played by 3.98%. All archetypes of druid combined account for 9.9% of all decks.

Yep yep, totally sensible decisions and all based on empirical evidence.

Omegafacepalm.

 "We only nerf top tier decks according to VS."

-Blizzard, 20neverteen

Quote from Dude962

I agree to that too. Not only Saronite, but leeching potion too. They try to get away with the bad designing of cards/mechanics- Shudderwock, Keleseth, Kingsbane, Even/odd mechanics, Quest rogue (via Giggling)- by nerfing other cards to the ground. Instead of that they should not have printed these BS cards or nerf them later and get rid of them.

Unfortunately I'm starting to agree with a few others, Blizzard is purposefully nerfing the cheap card (dust wise) in Saronite instead of the expensive card which is the real problem.  No other explanation makes sense.  Which is a great way to alienate your paying customer base imo.  

OMG BLIZZARD WHY U NERF MY SHUDEWROCK AND STILL NOT NERFING OP AF DIRE MOL !!1

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

Quote from Dude962

 

I agree to that too. Not only Saronite, but leeching potion too. They try to get away with the bad designing of cards/mechanics- Shudderwock, Keleseth, Kingsbane, Even/odd mechanics, Quest rogue (via Giggling)- by nerfing other cards to the ground. Instead of that they should not have printed these BS cards or nerf them later and get rid of them.

Unfortunately I'm starting to agree with a few others, Blizzard is purposefully nerfing the cheap card (dust wise) in Saronite instead of the expensive card which is the real problem.  No other explanation makes sense.  Which is a great way to alienate your paying customer base imo.  

 Literally no other explanation makes sense.  It MUST be that Blizzard is a greedy corporation (why should a business try to make profit, what the hell??) and wants to alienate its users.  No other explanation. 

Except on the contrary....it's better that they nerf lower rarity cards, as those are the cards that see more play and are likely to have broad sweeping effects on the meta.  A Legendary normally has some big, cool, powerful effect that you build around or is fun to play and make work.  I imagine a lot of folks would be upset if their big fun expensive build around card got nerfed (remember the outrage at the nerf to Tess, despite Tess having an extremely low playrate?)  

Look I understand perhaps you're not happy with the nerfs, but realize that it's possible to be in business to make profit and to make decisions in that interest (if you value Hearthstone at all, you WANT Blizzard to make a profit, this isn't a bad thing), AND to simultaneously want to keep the users happy.  

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from Skyryser >>

Fun fact: According to VS, Kingsbane Rogue is Tier 2 and played by 5.74% of players, Spell Hunter is Tier 1 and played by over twice the number of players (11.96%), with 23.3% of all decks being Hunter. Shudderwock Shaman is Tier 3 and played by 3.98%. All archetypes of druid combined account for 9.9% of all decks.

Yep yep, totally sensible decisions and all based on empirical evidence.

Omegafacepalm.

 "We only nerf top tier decks according to VS."

-Blizzard, 20neverteen

Well, when the numbers are THAT clear, it makes sense, at least to me, to start with that.

Also, 20neverteen - I’m stealing that.

So.. now instead of 80% hunters, 15% paladins and 5% "others" we're just going to see 100% Hunters in ranked play? .... nice.... R.I.P. Fun decks and fun games, gone but not forgotten

Quote from Skyryser >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from Skyryser >>

Fun fact: According to VS, Kingsbane Rogue is Tier 2 and played by 5.74% of players, Spell Hunter is Tier 1 and played by over twice the number of players (11.96%), with 23.3% of all decks being Hunter. Shudderwock Shaman is Tier 3 and played by 3.98%. All archetypes of druid combined account for 9.9% of all decks.

Yep yep, totally sensible decisions and all based on empirical evidence.

Omegafacepalm.

 "We only nerf top tier decks according to VS."

-Blizzard, 20neverteen

Well, when the numbers are THAT clear, it makes sense, at least to me, to start with that.

Also, 20neverteen - I’m stealing that.

 Winrate is but one criteria they use when determining nerfs.  Remember when Quest Rogue got nerfed - multiple times?  I don't think it ever had a high winrate, it's just one of those decks that feels really bad and uninteractive to lose to.  Remember when Yogg was nerfed?  It never had a high 'when played' winrate, but the fact that it COULD win you games that you'd otherwise lost, by resetting the board, drawing cards, summoning minions....that felt bad to lose to and was especially problematic in tournaments.  

tl;dr just because a deck or card is good doesn't mean it should be nerfed.  Just because a deck or card isn't top tier doesn't mean it should be immune to nerfs. 

Also; not really "R.I.P. Shudderwock" ... just now you can only play 1 per turn; Saronite Chain Gang just gets replaced with Baleful Banker or Youthful Brewmaster


Edit: just kidding, i'm actually retarded irl... rip shudder

Quote from DadamE >>

Also; not really "R.I.P. Shudderwock" ... just now you can only play 1 per turn; Saronite Chain Gang just gets replaced with Baleful Banker or Youthful Brewmaster

 There's no way to copy Shudderwock anymore, so you'll need some way to have 11 mana every turn; Shudderwock can't Banker/Brewmaster itself. 

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

Quote from Dude962

 

I agree to that too. Not only Saronite, but leeching potion too. They try to get away with the bad designing of cards/mechanics- Shudderwock, Keleseth, Kingsbane, Even/odd mechanics, Quest rogue (via Giggling)- by nerfing other cards to the ground. Instead of that they should not have printed these BS cards or nerf them later and get rid of them.

Unfortunately I'm starting to agree with a few others, Blizzard is purposefully nerfing the cheap card (dust wise) in Saronite instead of the expensive card which is the real problem.  No other explanation makes sense.  Which is a great way to alienate your paying customer base imo.  

 Literally no other explanation makes sense.  It MUST be that Blizzard is a greedy corporation (why should a business try to make profit, what the hell??) and wants to alienate its users.  No other explanation. 

Except on the contrary....it's better that they nerf lower rarity cards, as those are the cards that see more play and are likely to have broad sweeping effects on the meta.  A Legendary normally has some big, cool, powerful effect that you build around or is fun to play and make work.  I imagine a lot of folks would be upset if their big fun expensive build around card got nerfed (remember the outrage at the nerf to Tess, despite Tess having an extremely low playrate?)  

Look I understand perhaps you're not happy with the nerfs, but realize that it's possible to be in business to make profit and to make decisions in that interest (if you value Hearthstone at all, you WANT Blizzard to make a profit, this isn't a bad thing), AND to simultaneously want to keep the users happy.  

I am not against Blizzard making a profit - of course it can and should make a profit, my issue is with choosing to nerf a card that costs 100 dust vs nerfing a card that in my opinion is the real issue and costs 1600 dust.  Given that the problem is the animation time (certainly isn't the win rate) and how that negatively impacts a player's experience - which do you think is a better nerf? Nerfing a card that causes at least one extra animation or nerfing a card that results in no further animation but one more Shudderwock on the board? Either nerf kills the deck, so why nerf the cheaper card when it isn't the problem?

Which brings me to my next point - there was no need to nerf Saronite either in regards to Shudderwock or in regards to the numerous other decks that play it.  It was a perfectly fine card that found a home in several decks, it wasn't overpowered and the decks that used it to great effect (Tempo Rogue, Zoolock) are not particularly oppressive or dominant.  Now those decks are significantly effected when they didn't need to be.  They specifically stated that this is due to Shudderwock.  So instead of just nerfing that deck with Grumble, which doesn't see play in another deck or archetype, they nerf a variety of other decks for no reason?

I don't see how this makes anyone happy to be honest.  I'm actually not that upset, I don't play Tempo Rogue, or Zoolock or Shudderwock.  Have played Kingsbade sporadically and enjoy it but the leeching poison nerf makes perfect sense and doesn't affect a ton of other decks needlessly.

In my opinion choosing to target Saronite instead of Grumble was an unnecessary and extremely cheap move on Blizzard's part - thinking that is not inconsistent with agreeing that as a gaming company they should make a profit on their product. 

Meanwhile Fungalmancer is untouched when it should get +1 mana. This card is why Odd paladin will still be played  and was played

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

Quote from Kaladin >>

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

Quote from Dude962

 

I agree to that too. Not only Saronite, but leeching potion too. They try to get away with the bad designing of cards/mechanics- Shudderwock, Keleseth, Kingsbane, Even/odd mechanics, Quest rogue (via Giggling)- by nerfing other cards to the ground. Instead of that they should not have printed these BS cards or nerf them later and get rid of them.

Unfortunately I'm starting to agree with a few others, Blizzard is purposefully nerfing the cheap card (dust wise) in Saronite instead of the expensive card which is the real problem.  No other explanation makes sense.  Which is a great way to alienate your paying customer base imo.  

 Literally no other explanation makes sense.  It MUST be that Blizzard is a greedy corporation (why should a business try to make profit, what the hell??) and wants to alienate its users.  No other explanation. 

Except on the contrary....it's better that they nerf lower rarity cards, as those are the cards that see more play and are likely to have broad sweeping effects on the meta.  A Legendary normally has some big, cool, powerful effect that you build around or is fun to play and make work.  I imagine a lot of folks would be upset if their big fun expensive build around card got nerfed (remember the outrage at the nerf to Tess, despite Tess having an extremely low playrate?)  

Look I understand perhaps you're not happy with the nerfs, but realize that it's possible to be in business to make profit and to make decisions in that interest (if you value Hearthstone at all, you WANT Blizzard to make a profit, this isn't a bad thing), AND to simultaneously want to keep the users happy.  

I am not against Blizzard making a profit - of course it can and should make a profit, my issue is with choosing to nerf a card that costs 100 dust vs nerfing a card that in my opinion is the real issue and costs 1600 dust.  Given that the problem is the animation time (certainly isn't the win rate) and how that negatively impacts a player's experience - which do you think is a better nerf? Nerfing a card that causes at least one extra animation or nerfing a card that results in no further animation but one more Shudderwock on the board? Either nerf kills the deck, so why nerf the cheaper card when it isn't the problem?

Which brings me to my next point - there was no need to nerf Saronite either in regards to Shudderwock or in regards to the numerous other decks that play it.  It was a perfectly fine card that found a home in several decks, it wasn't overpowered and the decks that used it to great effect (Tempo Rogue, Zoolock) are not particularly oppressive or dominant.  Now those decks are significantly effected when they didn't need to be.  They specifically stated that this is due to Shudderwock.  So instead of just nerfing that deck with Grumble, which doesn't see play in another deck or archetype, they nerf a variety of other decks for no reason?

I don't see how this makes anyone happy to be honest.  I'm actually not that upset, I don't play Tempo Rogue, or Zoolock or Shudderwock.  Have played Kingsbade sporadically and enjoy it but the leeching poison nerf makes perfect sense and doesn't affect a ton of other decks needlessly.

In my opinion choosing to target Saronite instead of Grumble was an unnecessary and extremely cheap move on Blizzard's part - thinking that is not inconsistent with agreeing that as a gaming company they should make a profit on their product. 

 It makes more sense to nerf the card that causes the problem.  Sure, you could nerf Grumble instead, and sure it's true that Grumble - so far- has ONLY seen play in Shudderwock decks, but IMO this nerf prevents Shudderwock from going infinite AND possibly opens up new opportunities for Grumble to see play in non Shudderwock decks.   Yeah it kind of sucks for handbuff decks, but given that they're from different expansions, I'm guessing SCG was always intended to summon another SCG, and not a copy of the ambiguous "this minion."  And I'm sure it wasn't JUST Shudderwock decks they were keeping an eye on.  

edit: You still play SCG in decks that run SCG but no handbuffs.  I don't know why you're even bringing up decks like Tempo Rogue.  In those decks, SCG is literally the same as it was before. 

I love the one line summaries from the VS analysis of the nerfs.

Rexxar pops the champagne
Valeera’s still got plenty of daggers to stab you with
Uther turns his curse into his strength
Gul’dan going about his business as usual?
Malfurion’s been shot and is bleeding all over the ground
Anduin was seen playing Starcraft to hone his APM skills
(Thrall) My jaws don’t bite. My claws don’t catch. Anymore.
Jaina is given a second chance after nearly losing all hope
Garrosh is ready to tank up and rank up once again

Quote from raikaria >>

Druid is wrecked; and is going to be a dead class post-rotation when cards like Ultimate Infestation are gone. If it's anything like what happened to Shaman, in the next set Blizzard will try and push some gimmick like Freeze Shaman that'll fail completely and make Hearthstone only have 8 classes.

 

Why did it take until just before rotation for cards like Level Up! to be hit?

 

Hunters are going to dominate the ladder. Get the face masks!

 if by before rotation u mean 4 months, then yeah its before rotation

Exactly!  I have no idea how you are so calm. I am extremely pissed right now