They've tried to make mage less cancer by making it more minion-based, but it has returned to the old flavour; spells, spells, spells, and more spells. Yet, they don't give us proper tools to counteract them. Not even my odd control warrior can out control them and it's one of my absolute worst matchups, other than combo decks.
They willingly give us tools against aggro, midrange and control minions, but why are they always so hesitant in giving us cards that actually deal with spells hard? Sometimes they give us minions that say like "Spells cost (2) more", but bas seen those cards are never viable. They need to give us something else, something much more powerful.
One way would be to give a counter-spell card to EVERY Class, and not just for mage. Like an epic that says "Your opponent can't cast spells on his next turn". That way, you can completely hinder spells for two turns every game.
You identify your opponent, count his resources, keep in mind the position of cards kept in hand and for how many turns. You try to bait them or force them to use a spell in a non-optimal way (for boardclears) don't give them time to use their reload or greedy spells by pushing aggression and tempo.
That is... until Druid is considered. There is no bad time to cast Ultimate Infestation; there is no bad time to ramp and identifying which kind of druid they are is very hard because they all play the same 25 cards + their win condition; and you can be punished by going tall (Naturalize) or going wide (Spreading Plague) all the same.
"according to our stats, the meta is diverse and no deck has too high a win rate vs another, so we think the meta is fine. no new cards will be added in the foreseable future, fuck you and give us more money assholes."
-blizzard i think
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
You identify your opponent, count his resources, keep in mind the position of cards kept in hand and for how many turns. You try to bait them or force them to use a spell in a non-optimal way (for boardclears) don't give them time to use their reload or greedy spells by pushing aggression and tempo.
That is... until Druid is considered. There is no bad time to cast Ultimate Infestation; there is no bad time to ramp and identifying which kind of druid they are is very hard because they all play the same 25 cards + their win condition; and you can be punished by going tall (Naturalize) or going wide (Spreading Plague) all the same.
Of course, but you play around every type of card tbh, yet spells are the only type that don't actively get counters printed by Blizz. Why is that? Why is it ok to give a gorillion aggro counters, but not spell counters?
There is that kobold monk card that makes your hero not targetable by spells or hero powers.
I don't question that there are some. However, as you can see by usage, they simply aren't strong enough. We need more, and most of all stronger spell counters. Cards that directly, and instantaneously affects the spells.
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Ever had a mage with a mana wyrm and two other minions that dropped a secret you knew was counterspell, but you didn't have a coin or other cheap spell to stop it?
Ok. Now imagine a minion focused class like paladin or warlock with boards full of 1/1s or 2 mountain giants with that same secret.
That's sort of what happened with Loatheb. He wasn't used that often to, say, stop mage burning you. Instead, it was used in tempo decks. If you have minions that stuck, you stop Loatheb, your opponent can't do anything since you have the board and spells are HOW we counter losing the board, then they follow up and just win.
He was made to counter miracle Rogue. In the end, it was used by miracle rogue far more often than against it.
Generally you make counters as a defensive tool against offensive or setup tactics. You play a Deathwing, you counter it with Hex. You play a Twig for a combo setup, you play Ooze. You setup for a Shudderwock combo, you counter with Dirty Rat (rip Rat).
Spells, for the most part, are defensive tools, even after taking account things like burn mage. Thus any anti-magic tool with the intention of stopping offensive spells ends up being a tool that counters ..well.. counters like brawl. Highly competitive versions push the game into an aggro/tempo based meta.
Blizzard then tried to find alternative ways of countering offensive spells without killing defensive spells or turning them into aggro tools. All have failed. Eventually they realized, I think, that the counter to offensive burn strategies is armor and health along with making sure no one has an easy 30 damage spell combo. Thus why classes either have high armor/healing (paladin/priest/warrior/druid/ext.) or are fast enough to pressure kill a burner (rogue, mostly). It counters burn strategies while not affecting defensive spell strategies.
Again, picture Odd Rogue, or Even Warlock, or Paladin anything. Now give them a way to set up a board then stop any spells from showing up.
Not even my odd control warrior can out control them and it's one of my absolute worst matchups, other than combo decks.
Per the latest vS meta report, Aluneth mage has a 27% win rate against Odd Warrior. That is BEYOND unfavorable. Here's a tip as warrior: hit the button and win.
If you consider mage to be a counter to you, I don't know if your stance on game balance is well found.
They've tried to make mage less cancer by making it more minion-based, but it has returned to the old flavour; spells, spells, spells, and more spells. Yet, they don't give us proper tools to counteract them. Not even my odd control warrior can out control them and it's one of my absolute worst matchups, other than combo decks.
They willingly give us tools against aggro, midrange and control minions, but why are they always so hesitant in giving us cards that actually deal with spells hard? Sometimes they give us minions that say like "Spells cost (2) more", but bas seen those cards are never viable. They need to give us something else, something much more powerful.
One way would be to give a counter-spell card to EVERY Class, and not just for mage. Like an epic that says "Your opponent can't cast spells on his next turn". That way, you can completely hinder spells for two turns every game.
I would love to see Loatheb back in Standard. At least one card to f*** with spell heavy decks for one turn, which often enough can heavily affect the course of a match. But sadly we will not see a great card like Loatheb again in Standard for sure, because Loatheb is "unfun" for control and combo decks too and these decks are all which matters for Blizz today as it looks like. ^^
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
Because it's literally impossible to interact with your opponent during your opponents turn outside of the terrible secret mechanics and things like Lotheb or auras. Mtg has counter spells because Magic let's you play cards during your opponents turn. The only way to change this is to change hearthstone's core and allow phases between plays instead of how it is now.
You are asking for depth in an ankle high pond my friend.
They've tried to make mage less cancer by making it more minion-based, but it has returned to the old flavour; spells, spells, spells, and more spells. Yet, they don't give us proper tools to counteract them. Not even my odd control warrior can out control them and it's one of my absolute worst matchups, other than combo decks.
They willingly give us tools against aggro, midrange and control minions, but why are they always so hesitant in giving us cards that actually deal with spells hard? Sometimes they give us minions that say like "Spells cost (2) more", but bas seen those cards are never viable. They need to give us something else, something much more powerful.
One way would be to give a counter-spell card to EVERY Class, and not just for mage. Like an epic that says "Your opponent can't cast spells on his next turn". That way, you can completely hinder spells for two turns every game.
Loatheb
I'm interpreting never to include wild.
Not sure if hyped yet.
Yeah, loatheb was excellent. I really wish he was put in classic so hew as available in standard as well.
You play around them.
You identify your opponent, count his resources, keep in mind the position of cards kept in hand and for how many turns. You try to bait them or force them to use a spell in a non-optimal way (for boardclears) don't give them time to use their reload or greedy spells by pushing aggression and tempo.
That is... until Druid is considered. There is no bad time to cast Ultimate Infestation; there is no bad time to ramp and identifying which kind of druid they are is very hard because they all play the same 25 cards + their win condition; and you can be punished by going tall (Naturalize) or going wide (Spreading Plague) all the same.
we need cards that read:
"battlecry: counter the next spell cast (by your opponent)"
or
As long as this minion is on the battlefield, players cant cast spells
Just my 2 cents
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
"according to our stats, the meta is diverse and no deck has too high a win rate vs another, so we think the meta is fine. no new cards will be added in the foreseable future, fuck you and give us more money assholes."
-blizzard i think
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Of course, but you play around every type of card tbh, yet spells are the only type that don't actively get counters printed by Blizz. Why is that? Why is it ok to give a gorillion aggro counters, but not spell counters?
There is that kobold monk card that makes your hero not targetable by spells or hero powers.
I don't question that there are some. However, as you can see by usage, they simply aren't strong enough. We need more, and most of all stronger spell counters. Cards that directly, and instantaneously affects the spells.
Not everything in the game should have strong and neutral counters, and there's a reason for it.
In the case of Spells, it is because they are consumed on play: a fireball cannot hit you again in the following turns (unlike minions on the board).
Loatheb is a legendary (unique in deck), and won't yet prevent you from casting some spells. Also, there's a reason why it's Wild.
Would you like an efficient counter to Armor and Heals?
Loatheb
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
why would they ?
Because every other type of card has counters made for them each expansion. We are lucky if we get 1 awful spell counter every other expansion.
I think if they create spell counters, many Druid lovers will whine and Blizzard will lose money.
Unfortunately, for each satisfied player there are two who will complain. You can't make everyone happy tho
Ever had a mage with a mana wyrm and two other minions that dropped a secret you knew was counterspell, but you didn't have a coin or other cheap spell to stop it?
Ok. Now imagine a minion focused class like paladin or warlock with boards full of 1/1s or 2 mountain giants with that same secret.
That's sort of what happened with Loatheb. He wasn't used that often to, say, stop mage burning you. Instead, it was used in tempo decks. If you have minions that stuck, you stop Loatheb, your opponent can't do anything since you have the board and spells are HOW we counter losing the board, then they follow up and just win.
He was made to counter miracle Rogue. In the end, it was used by miracle rogue far more often than against it.
Generally you make counters as a defensive tool against offensive or setup tactics. You play a Deathwing, you counter it with Hex. You play a Twig for a combo setup, you play Ooze. You setup for a Shudderwock combo, you counter with Dirty Rat (rip Rat).
Spells, for the most part, are defensive tools, even after taking account things like burn mage. Thus any anti-magic tool with the intention of stopping offensive spells ends up being a tool that counters ..well.. counters like brawl. Highly competitive versions push the game into an aggro/tempo based meta.
Blizzard then tried to find alternative ways of countering offensive spells without killing defensive spells or turning them into aggro tools. All have failed. Eventually they realized, I think, that the counter to offensive burn strategies is armor and health along with making sure no one has an easy 30 damage spell combo. Thus why classes either have high armor/healing (paladin/priest/warrior/druid/ext.) or are fast enough to pressure kill a burner (rogue, mostly). It counters burn strategies while not affecting defensive spell strategies.
Again, picture Odd Rogue, or Even Warlock, or Paladin anything. Now give them a way to set up a board then stop any spells from showing up.
Now tell me this is a world you want to live in.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Per the latest vS meta report, Aluneth mage has a 27% win rate against Odd Warrior. That is BEYOND unfavorable. Here's a tip as warrior: hit the button and win.
If you consider mage to be a counter to you, I don't know if your stance on game balance is well found.
I would love to see Loatheb back in Standard. At least one card to f*** with spell heavy decks for one turn, which often enough can heavily affect the course of a match. But sadly we will not see a great card like Loatheb again in Standard for sure, because Loatheb is "unfun" for control and combo decks too and these decks are all which matters for Blizz today as it looks like. ^^
Because it's literally impossible to interact with your opponent during your opponents turn outside of the terrible secret mechanics and things like Lotheb or auras. Mtg has counter spells because Magic let's you play cards during your opponents turn. The only way to change this is to change hearthstone's core and allow phases between plays instead of how it is now.
You are asking for depth in an ankle high pond my friend.
Spell counters balance a fine line between frustrating to play against and unplayable.
Counterspell, Skulking Geist and Loatheb work well, but Rebuke, all troggs and Nerubian Unraveler (yet) do not.
In some ways, I like that you manage how much and what you commit to the board to play around AOE spells rather than playing a bruteforce countercard.
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