I'm also going to go ahead and predict Shudderwock Shaman will be the next Exodia Mage: some bullshit infinite value OTK loophole will be found and beating this thing will be a race against the clock other classes will usually lose, unless they go hyper aggro.
You: „I have no money. What am I gonna do now?“ Me: „ Told you not to preorder this expansion.“ Now I‘m heading on to buy a car and meanwhile he‘ll have fun playing cardgames :|
But I already have a car ...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Odd/Even decks are either going to end up tier 1, or tier 4. Nowhere in between. Meaning that they'll either see lots of play, or next to none. And if they do see play, EVERY ranked player is going to netdeck them, because they're gonna be too lazy to actually use their brain to figure out the puzzle of how to create syngery with only half of the cards in the game (okay not *exactly* half, but it's pretty close).
If anything, I'm betting that Odd decks will prevail over Even for spell based classes (Priest, Mage, Paladin, Warlock [maybe], and Druid [MAYBE]), and Even will prevail over Odd for minion classes (Warrior, Rogue [maybe], Paladin [sort of], Hunter, and Shaman [Sort of]).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Raaauuorgrlgelgshmurglefurgleauugburlge - May you eat many fish so that you are full and happy
Paragon of Light is a good paladin card, even with the some of the handbuff stuff rotating (it's almost like we got a new +1/+2 buff in this expansion, *COUGHSOUNDTHEBELLSCOUGH*)
I don't disagree, but Paladin still needs a finisher... however it still may be good in a token deck, buffing it and your tokens with bell ringer... and it protects your tokens... Nevermind... You're right.
2. Even shaman will be the best midrange deck. The totems might be week but pumping 1 our every turn is hard to deal with. And Totem muncher (with 1 cost totems on curve) and the eel are very good. It also has hex.
3. Minion heavy Mage will be very, very good. So much value and card draw.
4. Best “Worgen” card will be the swift messenger.
5. Countess will be great.
You might just be right about swift messenger. i will be decent anti aggro and removal. however it's a problem if you draw it turn 3, unless on the coin... (against aggro)
1. Cube\Control lock, Midrange shaman and Aggro paladin will be the meta (shaman beats warlock beats paladin beats shaman)
2. Rogue and Druid will replace Shaman and Warrior in Trash tier.
3. Control hunter will be semi-viable with a tier 3 deck, mainly because of the new beasts added to the Zombeast pool.
4. Pure Shudderwock OTK deck will fail miserably, because of lack of draw and board clears, a more midrangey deck will rise and utilize him successfully.
5. Lord Godfrey is overhyped, at first he will be played in all warlock decks, but after a while cube lock will cut him, and some control locks will use him instead of one of the Twisting Nethers.
Since Ben Brode already hinted that Cubelock "might" get nerfed if the deck remains strong, the question isn't if, but when and how, since there is no way in hell the deck will lose enough strength and popularity for that not to happen.
So I predict that the patch arrives somewhere between mid May and early June, and it will hit Possessed Lackey, Voidlord and Doomguard. Lackey will cost more, Voidlord will have less health and might only summon two Voidwalkers, and Doomguard will lose attack and/or gets Rush, but keeps the Battlecry. After that, nobody will play the deck anymore, and since Zoolock also loses a lot, Warlock will be pretty much gone.
After the patch, the actual meta begins: I think Shaman won't do as well as people think, but still keeps a "tier 2" deck. Paladin will be less popular, and Priest will lose too much with Drakonid Operative and thus disappear entirely, together with Druid and Warrior. The strong classes will be Hunter, Rogue and Mage.
1. Cube\Control lock, Midrange shaman and Aggro paladin will be the meta (shaman beats warlock beats paladin beats shaman)
2. Rogue and Druid will replace Shaman and Warrior in Trash tier.
3. Control hunter will be semi-viable with a tier 3 deck, mainly because of the new beasts added to the Zombeast pool.
4. Pure Shudderwock OTK deck will fail miserably, because of lack of draw and board clears, a more midrangey deck will rise and utilize him successfully.
5. Lord Godfrey is overhyped, at first he will be played in all warlock decks, but after a while cube lock will cut him, and some control locks will use him instead of one of the Twisting Nethers.
10. Most echo cards will turn out to be horrible (in constructed).
I think your predictions are intelligent, well thought out, and I share msot of them.
Except 8 : I feel one Baku deck will be Tier 2. Clockwork automaton, for eample, can be great in Baku Hunter.
I would also amend 3 : I think some hunter will get to Tier 2, wether quest, midrange or Control. The only sure thing about this deck is that it'll make use of Rexxar.
I'm going to guess that Toki will become a staple in most control mages. People seem to forget a lot of the wild legendaries can actually work with Frost Lich Jaina.
Fair points. However, I want to strongly disagree on some of them myself. I will try to prove why the Shaman Shudderwock combo deck will fail (in the next standard expansion):
[Before I continue, can someone post a list of the Shudderwock deck, because I feel we are talking way too generally]
I'm going to begin with the part about drawing cards, because that was and still is shaman's biggest weakness. And I don't understand how you compare those subpar cards to the ones actually used in viable combo decks:
You mentioned Kingsbane rogue. Well, there you have 2x Coldlight Oracles, 2x Cavern Shinyfinder and 2x Elven Minstrel as tutors, not to mention that you can always combo the oracles with Shadowstep or/and Vanish for extra cards. I don't remember how viable Kun decks were back in MSOG, but now druid has a lot of draw in their disposal (UI, Branching Paths, Nourish) and a lot of ways to stall (but about that later). We warlocks have our powerful HP and we can draw our cards consistently whenever we want. Combo mages (Freeze, Quest) have additionally Arcane Intellect and Acolyte of Pain - thx to their HP they can utilize him very well and can get lots of cards from him. Shamans also have a very powerful draw tool of their own, but that's only in wild - Ancestral Knowledge.
Shamans don't have good ways to stall and to clear boards, which is essential in every combo deck. Playing a Saronite Chain Gang on turn 4 can't be compared to the more powerful shenanigans, which other classes can do (Spreading Plague, Frost Nova + Doomsayer) and don't make me start linking the shaman AoEs.
In the Shudder-deck, your combo pieces are battlecries, which means you are getting board presence while assembling your combo. Now in Shudder shaman, you have to use Lifedrinker, so you have to pay 1 extra mana compared to the farseer. Thats the cost, but you are getting closer to your combo. Another combo piece is Saronite Chain Gang. Playing it on curve is OK tempo.
Sorry, but the bold part isn't quite impressive. While it's true, that you are making a board presence and gaining some value, while slowly setting up your win-condition, in reality the combo pieces themselves aren't that strong. What is the OTK in this deck actually? The one, where you use understated minions, which will only ping the opponent every time you play your 1 mana Shudderwock? We warlocks heal for 3 every time we use our HP, so we will deflect the damage. Some flaws regarding the whole OTK aspect - first off, how do you think you will reliably unleash of all the combo pieces? On the one hand you have to play the "burst", then a Saronite Chain Gang, then Grumble, then Shudder. Secondly Shudder's effect is random. That means, that if Grumble's effect triggers before the Saronite's one, then you don't get a 1 mana minion. Thirdly - Shudder only replays the battlecries of all non-Shudder cards (look how Shudder played the same cards here and here and how in the second case he didn't played double the battlecries).
So there you have it. This is why I think, that the discussed combo will fail. I don't think, that the legendary is weak (I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GET IT FROM A PACK, as this answers one of control shaman's biggest weaknesses - win-condition). I also think, that someday we will see an OTK deck, maybe even tomorrow in wild. But nothing can change my opinion about the heavily popularized OTK decks which people bring up. Sorry, there are just too many factors.
So here's the place to put your bold predictions out there, so in a month or so you can reference this thread to tell everyone you were right.
1. Meta will be pretty much unchanged for the first few weeks followed by a Cubelock nerf. Blizzard will site that it's not the most powerful deck but it's limiting entire archetypes from being viable in the meta.
2. There will be one new meta deck that will flesh out fairly soon, the OTK Shudderwock deck. It will focus on board clear, healing, card draw, and ultimately using a Grumble battlecry to allow you to cast Shudderwock 10 times in one turn for the win.
You made a big mistake in point 2. Grumble's ballecry is: return your OTHER minions to your hand. They cost (1). So you have to play Grumble, he has to survive a turn, then play Shudderwock and Grumble once again, then he has to survive a turn, and then finally you can play 5 Shudderwocks and 4 Grumbles (ex. into Kalimos's battlecry), so it's not as easy as you say. Also, battlecries are cast by Shudderwock in the same order they were cast in the game, so you would have to care about playing all the important battlecries before you play Grumble
Edit: sorry, I forgot about Saronite Chain Gang, he can summon a copy of himself and return it to your hand with Grumble's battlecry
Also, battlecries are cast by Shudderwock in the same order they were cast in the game, so you would have to care about playing all the important battlecries before you play Grumble
random, i can link you wiki, if you want or just look at my post above and click the videos
While all of this is true, you can circumvent most of this (except the aoe part) by deckbuilding.
True, I'm not going to disagree on this point. That's why I am not excluding this deck-type in the future - I'm even expecting to see a strong OTK deck in wild this expansion. Maybe even tomorrow, who knows. But in my opinion a deck w/o a strong spell presence isn't an optimal home for a combo strategy like this one. So that's why the only viable home for those kind of decks will be in wild for now.
Inb4 thx for the list.
[edit] Can you put a spoiler in your comment. I don't think that some people will enjoy seeing yet another wall of text written by moi.
Also, battlecries are cast by Shudderwock in the same order they were cast in the game, so you would have to care about playing all the important battlecries before you play Grumble
random, i can link you wiki, if you want or just look at my post above and click the videos
Ok, i thought that its battlecry works similarly to Lynessa's battlecry
I'm also going to go ahead and predict Shudderwock Shaman will be the next Exodia Mage: some bullshit infinite value OTK loophole will be found and beating this thing will be a race against the clock other classes will usually lose, unless they go hyper aggro.
i think people are overating shudderwock. i think its very bad and will not see play in a deck higher than tier 4.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Marsh Drake will be played in a Tempo Rogue deck, even if that deck ends up being tier 3/4
Odd/Even decks are either going to end up tier 1, or tier 4. Nowhere in between. Meaning that they'll either see lots of play, or next to none. And if they do see play, EVERY ranked player is going to netdeck them, because they're gonna be too lazy to actually use their brain to figure out the puzzle of how to create syngery with only half of the cards in the game (okay not *exactly* half, but it's pretty close).
If anything, I'm betting that Odd decks will prevail over Even for spell based classes (Priest, Mage, Paladin, Warlock [maybe], and Druid [MAYBE]), and Even will prevail over Odd for minion classes (Warrior, Rogue [maybe], Paladin [sort of], Hunter, and Shaman [Sort of]).
Raaauuorgrlgelgshmurglefurgleauugburlge - May you eat many fish so that you are full and happy
Odd druid will destroy the meta.
My predictions:
1. Cube\Control lock, Midrange shaman and Aggro paladin will be the meta (shaman beats warlock beats paladin beats shaman)
2. Rogue and Druid will replace Shaman and Warrior in Trash tier.
3. Control hunter will be semi-viable with a tier 3 deck, mainly because of the new beasts added to the Zombeast pool.
4. Pure Shudderwock OTK deck will fail miserably, because of lack of draw and board clears, a more midrangey deck will rise and utilize him successfully.
5. Lord Godfrey is overhyped, at first he will be played in all warlock decks, but after a while cube lock will cut him, and some control locks will use him instead of one of the Twisting Nethers.
6. Hagatha the Witch will be the MVP in all shaman decks.
7. Rush will be better than people expected, Scaleworm is a sleeper, Militia Commander and Darius Crowley will be great cards.
8. Even and Odd decks won't work, they will end up being tier 3 or worse.
9. Blackwald Pixie and Clockwork Automaton will not work in standard, in wild they will see play in some weird wombo combo decks.
10. Most echo cards will turn out to be horrible (in constructed).
Since Ben Brode already hinted that Cubelock "might" get nerfed if the deck remains strong, the question isn't if, but when and how, since there is no way in hell the deck will lose enough strength and popularity for that not to happen.
So I predict that the patch arrives somewhere between mid May and early June, and it will hit Possessed Lackey, Voidlord and Doomguard. Lackey will cost more, Voidlord will have less health and might only summon two Voidwalkers, and Doomguard will lose attack and/or gets Rush, but keeps the Battlecry. After that, nobody will play the deck anymore, and since Zoolock also loses a lot, Warlock will be pretty much gone.
After the patch, the actual meta begins: I think Shaman won't do as well as people think, but still keeps a "tier 2" deck. Paladin will be less popular, and Priest will lose too much with Drakonid Operative and thus disappear entirely, together with Druid and Warrior. The strong classes will be Hunter, Rogue and Mage.
I'm going to guess that Toki will become a staple in most control mages. People seem to forget a lot of the wild legendaries can actually work with Frost Lich Jaina.
Fair points. However, I want to strongly disagree on some of them myself. I will try to prove why the Shaman Shudderwock combo deck will fail (in the next standard expansion):
[Before I continue, can someone post a list of the Shudderwock deck, because I feel we are talking way too generally]
I'm going to begin with the part about drawing cards, because that was and still is shaman's biggest weakness. And I don't understand how you compare those subpar cards to the ones actually used in viable combo decks:
You mentioned Kingsbane rogue. Well, there you have 2x Coldlight Oracles, 2x Cavern Shinyfinder and 2x Elven Minstrel as tutors, not to mention that you can always combo the oracles with Shadowstep or/and Vanish for extra cards. I don't remember how viable Kun decks were back in MSOG, but now druid has a lot of draw in their disposal (UI, Branching Paths, Nourish) and a lot of ways to stall (but about that later). We warlocks have our powerful HP and we can draw our cards consistently whenever we want. Combo mages (Freeze, Quest) have additionally Arcane Intellect and Acolyte of Pain - thx to their HP they can utilize him very well and can get lots of cards from him. Shamans also have a very powerful draw tool of their own, but that's only in wild - Ancestral Knowledge.
Now, please explain to me how the fairly slow options like Sandbinder, Witchwood Piper, Mana Tide Totem, Far Sight (+ Novice Engineer and Gnomish Inventor) can replace those cards? The Piper can draw you another cheap card, so you might as well draw a card draw, instead of a piece and thus you slow yourself even more.
Shamans don't have good ways to stall and to clear boards, which is essential in every combo deck. Playing a Saronite Chain Gang on turn 4 can't be compared to the more powerful shenanigans, which other classes can do (Spreading Plague, Frost Nova + Doomsayer) and don't make me start linking the shaman AoEs.
Sorry, but the bold part isn't quite impressive. While it's true, that you are making a board presence and gaining some value, while slowly setting up your win-condition, in reality the combo pieces themselves aren't that strong. What is the OTK in this deck actually? The one, where you use understated minions, which will only ping the opponent every time you play your 1 mana Shudderwock? We warlocks heal for 3 every time we use our HP, so we will deflect the damage. Some flaws regarding the whole OTK aspect - first off, how do you think you will reliably unleash of all the combo pieces? On the one hand you have to play the "burst", then a Saronite Chain Gang, then Grumble, then Shudder. Secondly Shudder's effect is random. That means, that if Grumble's effect triggers before the Saronite's one, then you don't get a 1 mana minion. Thirdly - Shudder only replays the battlecries of all non-Shudder cards (look how Shudder played the same cards here and here and how in the second case he didn't played double the battlecries).
So there you have it. This is why I think, that the discussed combo will fail. I don't think, that the legendary is weak (I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GET IT FROM A PACK, as this answers one of control shaman's biggest weaknesses - win-condition). I also think, that someday we will see an OTK deck, maybe even tomorrow in wild. But nothing can change my opinion about the heavily popularized OTK decks which people bring up. Sorry, there are just too many factors.
I think Shudderwock is extremely overhyped and honestly won't pass anything over T3.
True, I'm not going to disagree on this point. That's why I am not excluding this deck-type in the future - I'm even expecting to see a strong OTK deck in wild this expansion. Maybe even tomorrow, who knows. But in my opinion a deck w/o a strong spell presence isn't an optimal home for a combo strategy like this one. So that's why the only viable home for those kind of decks will be in wild for now.
Inb4 thx for the list.
[edit] Can you put a spoiler in your comment. I don't think that some people will enjoy seeing yet another wall of text written by moi.
I'm almost certain warlock will get some nerfs probably to Doomguard and lackey.
Quest Warrior will rise again and be a serious contender for cubelock
Spiteful Priest will still be the priest deck to play
Control mage, All non aggro druid decks, Warlock and warrior will be playing Voodoo Doll
Many people will try Odd or even decks in the first few weeks and then they'll never see the light again