• 0

    posted a message on Zeddy Hearthstone Needs a Slight Reality Check

    You have written many words on why you disagree with Zeddy and see him as a debatable character in the HS community. Yet to my disappointment, I couldn't really see why you even felt like writing all this. I mean, were you under the impression that Zeddy is about to become the inofficially nominated spokesperson of the playerbase or something like that? Is this just about you not liking a Youtuber? Where's your motivation?!

    I guess your point is "don't trust someone who portrays himself as a hero" or something along those lines. Which is... fine, I guess? Maybe you should have put that at the beginning. I recently watched one of the videos you mentioned (the one about HS cost), and I didn't like it, and I didn't like him. He was too much of an "angry gamer" for me to take seriously, in his attitude and reasoning (like carelessly exaggerating). So, I didn't really need some extra convincing. But thanks for the effort.


    That being said, not related to Zeddy, just to something you have said:

    I think no one who wants to join or lead a debate needs to be "morally pure" (whatever that is supposed to mean). If I was waiting for the saint of impeccable integrity to speak up on matters that need to be addressed, I might as well give up on these matters entirely. I'd rather have someone with questionable morals and history saying the right things (perhaps by accident), than no one saying them. I personally think it's necessary to differentiate between the message and the person behind it, for things to progress. Partially, because you can't realistically stay invested in some fields of interest, if you don't want to take inspiration from people who also said and did horrible things.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on ashes of outland challenge, lady vashj and onward

    I did almost every single Outlands boss with Galakrond Priest (including Vashj), or Quest Priest (Magtheridon and Illidan). There might have been one boss where I used another class, but I can't really remember. In most cases, just having infinite minions, loads of answers and Apotheosis does the trick.

    Posted in: Adventures
  • 0

    posted a message on My post about hearthpwn's news magically disappearing magically disappeared

    It's not about whether a topic "deserves" to be discussed in General Discussion, it's about whether it belongs there. You happen to criticize something related to the site, so it goes to the section that is about the site. It has very little to do with Hearthstone itself. Just about every single message board on the internet has different sections to keep different topics separate.

    General Discussion is the more, perhaps even the most frequently visited section, but that's because generally discussing Hearthstone is likely to be the main reason for people to visit a Hearthstone-related message board. That doesn't make it a public space where you can just grab your megaphone and address the crowd with whatever you want to say. General Discussion is (supposed to be) only about discussing the game.

    It's understandable that you want as many people as possible to take notice of your topic, but those are the rules.


    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on My post about hearthpwn's news magically disappearing magically disappeared

    It was moved to another section of the forum. It's here.

    If that challenges your understanding of free speech, I strongly encourage you to leave.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 42

    posted a message on REWARDS TRACK UPDATE - Official Blizzard Statement

    So the "plan" here is that they intended to "help" players complete the reward track throughout the expansion with events and stuff... They want to help us complete the needlessly stretched out, insultingly grindy reward track that they designed.

    Under the new system, we can't really progress on our own, or only at snail pace, but things get better if and when the developers are so nice to "help" us with it. Sounds a bit like an abusive relationship.

    It pretty much takes the player agency out of the sytem. Originally, it sounded like you are determining your speed of progression: Play more, earn more exp, level up faster, make more gold, simple as that. But instead, you are supposed to just sit around and complete your quests, rope your turns for maximum playtime while watching something on YouTube or doing your taxes, until an event comes around where playing is actually worthwhile.

    Wasn't a point of this whole system to make things easier to understand for the average player, and put rewards on display in a way that everyone would always know what they could earn?

    And instead of making things transparent and clear and easy to understand, you hide the amount of exp you earn per game, you hide the total amount of exp required, you hide thousands of exp in the achievement section (and require specific legendaries and epics for most of them, and only let them be completed on ladder), and then you leave it to some obscure, secret events to balance that whole system out?!!

    We also didn’t provide any details for how events will link into and support the rewards system. [...] Our failure to communicate these factors has led to incomplete projections, for which we apologize.

    So... did you plan to provide any details now? Got something to announce that changes everything?

    No? Ok then. I guess I'll just stay confused, and embrace my little "incomplete projection" because it's the only joy that this ugly monster of a reward track has left me with. It completely ruined any interest I had in the new expansion. I don't even want to open any packs.

    For the time being, I'll just enjoy the trainwreck on reddit, and ignore Hearthstone outside of Battlegrounds.

    Posted in: News
  • 7

    posted a message on Blizzard's response to the whole system revamp
    Quote from 3nnu1 >>
    Quote from Shadowrisen >>

    That's the last time I believe someone on this forum when they use the phrase "well-written".

    By virtue of the fact that, until early 2019 I had bought just about everything there was to buy, including enough packs to have a vast majority of the playable cards in the game in gold, I can say fairly confidently that my account had one of the largest amounts of money spent in all of the player base.  That's roughly $200 worth of packs every expansion plus all the extra heroes, all the adventures, and quite a bit of classic packs for gold forging dust.  I suppose some people who are bad at arenas might have spent more on real money arena tickets; I generally get to a point where I can sustain myself in arena via gold.

    The above link speaks of "maxing out credit cards to keep up" when I have just outlined that, again, unless you suck at arena and constantly spend real money to play it, it is basically impossible to spend more than $700 a year on this game; there is simply nothing else to buy.

    No question, $700 a year on a video game is astronomically high in terms of cost of a video game, but it isn't in the same universe as "maxing out credit cards" of anyone with a job that makes use of post-high school education.  In fact, it represents a fairly minuscule amount of disposable income for someone gainfully employed in the U.S.

    As for the bullshit about missing phone payments and all that, I'm sure that even in the hell world of 2020, there are still people with so few real problems, the temptation to spend too much on pixels still ranks.  Fortunately or not, I'm not quite so lucky, which is why, when I lost my job, I subsequently . . . and try to stay with me here, I know it's a radical concept . . . stopped . . . buying . . . Hearthstone pixels.

    It took a year and some for me to find a comparable job, and during that time I broke my streak of collecting all heroes and card backs, but that was the intelligent thing to do.  Now, I'm back to a spot where spending $20 on a Battle Pass is a trivial expense, so why not?  Why would anyone presume to tell someone how to spend truly disposable income when financial obligations are met?


    I will say, that part about not knowing what you're buying and mistaking the pass for battleground perks was worth a good laugh.  As if the fact that the same screen clearly showing them as two different things wasn't enough, one has only to read the three or so lines of text describing the pass to know exactly what was included and what wasn't. 

     Imagine thinking spending 700 dollars on a video game that you play while you poop is a reasonable thing to do.

     Anything you spend your money on is "reasonable" in relation to how much you have left afterwards. Some people make more than 700$ in a week, some won't make that much in a month, bills not included. I strongly disagree about the notion of how "miniscule" 700$ are if you have a "real" job, but that's a different topic. If your income allows it, and you consider it worthwhile, it's reasonable.

    People might disagree about your priorities, but you are free to do with your income as you see fit, and don't need to justify any of it if your financial obligations and basic needs are met.

    Not that it matters, but I can think of more questionable things to spend large sums on, like smoking.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 4

    posted a message on Blizzard lied about the new reward system
    Quote from Poghy >>
    Quote from Denza >>

    How exactly am I getting xp by playing battlegrounds? I seem to get 0 xp, tho I am winning (ending in top 4) 

     I havent tried battlegrounds, but I have the same problem with duels. I dont get any xp while playing it or finishing a run.

    Is it just me or is it a known bug?

     The exp gain is never shown unless you level up. You can only see your exp gain if you leave the menu of the game mode and go back to the reward track and calculate by how much the number increased.

    I did some testing with Battlegrounds yesterday. For a bottom 4 finish, I would get around 40-70 exp, and the two runs where I got in the top 4 (3rd and 1st place, respectively) I got 130 and 150 (rounded).

    As for Duels, I have only played two games which didn't award any exp, but I heard someone claiming that you do get exp after 3+ wins. I can't confirm that yet, but have a run at 2-0. At the very least, it's pretty crappy if you are just having a bad run.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on is the new system actually more rewarding?
    Quote from OSOK44 >>

    There seems to be one major point you're not taking into consideration: You're looking at rank 50 as the end game.

    As you are a player who plays every day, you may end up with a lot more gold than before.

    Currently, we don't know how long it will take to hit rank 50. I imagine they will want to make this as attainable as possible. It all depends on how fast we hit rank 50 and how much exp we need for each repeatable 150 gold reward after that. As you play often, you may hit rank 50 within a month or two. Once you start working on the repeatable 150 gold rewards, you may end up with a lot more gold at the end of the expansion than you usually would for the same amount of play - it seems far too early to tell.

     We do know, how long it will take, on average, to reach level 50. Outof.cards has published the datamined full reward track including the required amounts of exp per level. Without going into detail, since I haven't memorized the exact key numbers, the last two levels on the reward track require over 9000 exp each (it exponentially rises to that point), and level 50 and beyond require over 4000, with 4500 being the maximum eventually.

    The numbers are pretty clear, and for the vast majority of all players, the new system is significantly worse, and doesn't hold up to what was promised. Especially, when you don't try to convert non-gold rewards into "gold value", which was at no point implied either.  

    The people that benefit from the new system are people who play very infrequently, because they can complete the early levels of the reward track easily, and the people who play many, many hours per day, because the new system doesn't limit the amount of exp you can make per day. But under 8 hours or so, the new system is still worse for them, because eventually, the exp/gold ratio is plain insulting.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Am I the only one that likes the new reward system?

    I'm sure you are not the only one liking the new system more, but I can't say I do. I like parts of it, like achievements and the idea of weekly quests and exp per game, instead of just awarding wins. But with that change, they turned the game into a worse grindfest than it has ever been. And as a whole, the game got a LOT worse for me.

    When the pack rules and the ladder rewards were changed earlier this year, the game was actually feeling pretty good. Since you could buy packs from older expansions again, I wanted to get all the commons and rares of every set. I knew I would never get all legendaries or epics (or anywhere close to that), but that was fine with me. I just wanted to have all those older cards and then craft the epics and legendaries I liked. I wanted to have a large collection, and I was pretty excited about Duels with that in mind. Without giving up on new expansions, it would have taken me another few months to save enough gold for older expansions. I would buy like 60 packs from the new sets, just enough to get the commons and rares, and save 2-3k for the rest. 

    You talk about fun? Well, that was unfortunately what I had fun planning and doing in this game. Not to mention the fun from playing games with new and old cards. For the last few years, I cared more about Wild than Standard anyway. Now, that has become virtually impossible. The new system gives you barely enough gold to get all the rares from a new expansion, even if you factor in the packs you get, and requires even more grinding doing so. No real way of saving anything for other stuff.

    And it's not just "slightly less". In the old system, the minimum amount of gold you made per week was 350 (only 50g quests, 0 wins) and just with rerolls and playing a few games per day, 450-500g was fairly achievable, and 600-700 possible, if you played a bit more. And it didn't matter if you played Ranked, Casual or Tavern Brawl (I personally liked Brawl best, depending on the week). For years, I could always gets something between 2000 and 2500 every month. it's not the most I could have made, some people certainly made more. But I didn't need more, and I didn't want more. Considering the amount of time I had to invest, that was what I was comfortable with.

    In the new system, I feel forced to play Ranked all the time, just because the Exp gain in other modes isn't worth it. And now, it takes you roughly 3 months to get to level 50 (after which you made 4200 gold), and then you can get 300 gold per week, maybe 450 if you play a lot, for the few weeks remaining until the next expansion. And in addition, there's 170 cards per expansion.

    Yes, the game is about having fun. And it's less fun now for me. Being pretty much forced into ranked in order to keep up, being forced to give up on my collection goals, feeling like constantly going uphill when the hill just got a lot steeper gives me a miserable feeling. And feeling miserable is pretty much the opposite of having fun.

    If you have fun roping every single turn every single game while eating jars of Nutella, and doing 50 pushups after every loss to fight the calories, that's good for you. I'm sure you'll continue to have a blast. But I had fun playing some casual games, some tavern brawls, making some gold every other day, and improving my collection bit by bit. And for me, that fun is gone.


    I don't know... maybe I'll play Battlegrounds more, maybe Duels from time to time if I happen to have some good cards for the current set rotation, maybe I'll quit Hearthstone for good. But I'll definitely give up on my collection goals, and on constructed entirely once my decks have all become outdated (in a few days). Because that's where the new system is pushing me to. And I can't say I like it.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How much gold should we save for the mini expansion?

    On the reward track, you can obtain 9 Darkmoon packs. You'll also make 4200 gold from it. Depending on how well you are doing on ranked, you can get up to 5 Darkmoon packs per month, and additionally up to 7 rares (and one epic).

    The mini-set will probably contain around 15 rares (as in Galakrond's Awakening), so you'd need to obtain 30 extra rares, after it comes out. The commons would require very few packs (like 5-10), and if you plan to get all epics and legendaries anyway, you wouldn't ask this question, I think.

    30 rares usually requires something around 25-28 packs. If you get all the rares from the initial expansion before the mini-set launches (requires around 50-60 packs) you could get 7 of the new rares a few weeks later from the seasonal chest. I expect that the mini-set will launch around late January or early February, so you should get at least 2 seasonal chests after it comes out.

    So, considering that you can save a few packs between initial launch day and mid-expansion launch day, get a few missing rares if you wait a few weeks, and should be able to make some gold in the meantime, I'd say you don't need to save much, if anything, for now. Especially if you don't mind waiting for the seasonal rewards to fill in the gaps, you won't need to spend much on it.



    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 7

    posted a message on Blizzard no brain strikes again.
    Quote from Tear >>

    They said the "whole point" of the new system is to stop bots,

    the way to get exp now is just by playing, not even winning!!

    The bots don't even need to be smart anymore, just press end turn and queue again every time.

    Also from my calculations you need to play about 9 hours a day to get to level 150 every expansion.

    Not to mention there isn't even a daily cap at the moment yet.

    If they really want to render bots useless they should make it so 1~2 hours a day would be enough to reach level 150.

    First they trash shaman, next they print ridiculous cards like Cloud Prince and now this.

    Einstein was right, human stupidity is infinite.



    Cloud Prince; Shaman is temporarily bad in Standard; Reward system is potentially exploitable => Everyone is stupid!

    Flawless logic. I'm sure Einstein would be proud.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Wild Set Vanity Coins

    I somewhat doubt it, to be honest. Would be sweet, but they haven't said anything about achievements for older sets either, from what I remember.

    Maybe they just didn't mention it, or add them later, but I got the feeling that new features will only be developed for future content.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Some of you don't deserve what you think you deserve

    I thought, I should add something substantial to the topic, instead of just assaulting the OP. BUT I don't really want to repeat myself saying the same things over and over again.

    So, instead, I went through my posting history and dug up a few entries. This collection covers pretty much all I have to say regarding the game's economy, F2P economy, suggestions to improve it, debates on whether these suggestions are inappropriate, debates on this message board in general, and why I think the old saying of "Blizzard is a company" misses the point. Hopefully, it gives an impression of WHY I'm sick of these debates as well.

    Some of it might not seem fitting to this discussion, but it will, at least in parts, reflect on what I had to criticize about the opening post.

    This is not a complete history, since I'm not in the mood to go through over a thousand postings. Also, there are probably a few things in there that I wouldn't say the same way again nowadays, but it already took me over half an hour going through this, and it would take much longer to discuss my own stuff in detail.

    Sorry that I only insert links here, but as the interested reader will see and might have guessed already, they are rather lengthy (shocking, I know), and it's too much to insert in here.











    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Some of you don't deserve what you think you deserve
    Quote from Ikroc >>

     No offence to you but as someone who professionally debated in high school and college, I would never go into an argument insulting my opponent. Saying these types of things does not prove an argument at all and again I dont want to be a jerk but it makes your argument look worse. Everyone has the right to agree or disagree with the op's post but he never said that he felt "entitled to someone elses attention". You chose to read this post so if you are going to disagree with the op's opinion then go after the argument not the person.

     I don't have an argument here, aside maybe from thinking he's bad at debating. Which is indeed unprofessional, but I highlighted why I think so, and I hopefully also made sufficiently clear that I have not much interest in this debate. If I do end up changing my mind and want to pursue the conversation... yeah, that was a stupid move. But that's a risk I am willing to take. I don't have to look good in every debate I participate in.

    Of course he didn't say he's "entitled" to my attention. And he wouldn't be either way. But maybe he takes it as a hint for how dumb it is to use the word "entitled" in such a context (I didn't put it in quotes for no reason). Nobody says or actually claims they are "entitled" to free gaming either, yet the OP claims that some people do, for no elaborated reason other than people complaining about something. But from the observation alone that people complain about the game being too expensive or the pricing structure not being fair (this is my interpretation, the OP of course had no time to go into detail what he even meant), you can't deduct that people actually demand or claim to get "everything" for free, or whatever "free gaming" would amount to.

    I don't mind being an idiot here, because the OP is, in my humble opinion, no better than one of the many, many rage posts I've seen on this topic. I am not interested in giving it more consideration than the OP himself. I don't think I'm the better person, or the better speaker here, certainly not from what I'm investing in this. But I don't need to be better either.

    I rage and ostracize as well, just as unqualified, but in a different way.

    Quote from CakeEater >>
    Quote from Dunscot >>

    Like really, what do you think should come from this? Where is this supposed to go? People saluting you? A purge? Do we need to get rid of "the plebs"? Do you just want to vent because you are constipated or is there an actual reason or motivation for your rant? Shouldn't you have better things to do?


    I'm not trying to offend anyone, or elicit grand change.  I was simply stating my opinion on a forum designed for stating opinions.  If you took this personally, I have no explanation for that...

    If you try not offending anyone, than maybe pick a topic that doesn't accuse an undisclosed group of people of "demanding" something they do not "deserve". Your choice of words is to put people into their place, and unless you are in a position where you are expected to do so (teacher, parent), you do offend people. If you were not aware of that... well, now you are hopefully.

    Take a look at me! I'm lecturing you, unrequested, without any competence, and you correctly assume I'm an asshole. And at least to me, you don't come across any better. Maybe slightly, but only because you don't address anyone personally, while I clearly do. Lashing out against someone personally is generally perceived as more hostile than lashing out against a group of people. Strangely enough...

    And no, I'm not taking this personally. I don't feel addressed by this either. Maybe as someone who's been arguing in a different direction for years, but I'm not seeing myself accused of something. It just makes me mad how many times I've seen this exact topic with this exact message, with no real intention or consideration behind it, just another person who wants to tell everyone how "entitled" or "greedy" or "spoiled" or whatever they are. Sorry, but if you had a different intention, I couldn't find it.

    You can state your opinion as much as you like. As if I could stop you from doing so. I personally think people should only start topics if they actually want to debate something and hear other opinions, and not dictate "right" and "wrong" from the very start, but that's just me. Same reason why I think most (but not all) of the nerf-topics are pointless. I just wonder what you want to accomplish with this, and I think I made my point clear that I detest such postings and topics.

    Even IF you picked a different tone, and would open it with "What do you think, do people have a point that everything in the game should be easily accessible? I personally think..." I wouldn't like the topic, but not because of how you introduced it, but for what it is inevitably resulting in. See other replies in this topic to see what I mean.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Some of you don't deserve what you think you deserve

    Yeah, you tell 'em! That should end all debate forever!

    Fortunately there's this one brave hero explaining how the real world works and breaks the cold hard truth to those coddled, spoiled millenials!


    Like really, what do you think should come from this? Where is this supposed to go? People saluting you? A purge? Do we need to get rid of "the plebs"? Do you just want to vent because you are constipated or is there an actual reason or motivation for your rant? Shouldn't you have better things to do?

    I don't want to repeat for the 100th time why such sentiments are mostly nonsense. I already know that this is going nowhere.

    I'll just save some time and use your logic against you: From what it looks like, you spent neither time nor effort nor money on actually learning how to debate, much less about socio-economic or game design topics in particular. So, you are not "entitled" to have this debate. Or my attention. Which is now wasted on you.

    Your "arguments", if I dare call them as such, lack proper consideration, are one-sided, and try to be convincing just through an authoritarian tone, where you paint yourself as someone seeing things clear through the eye of "reason". Thank goodness you didn't bring up something like health insurance or social welfare, and just stayed within the limits of Hearthstone! Because those topics are right around the corner from where you are coming from.

    I need to install a wordfilter to block out pieces like this. I could miss out on interesting articles or comments on human rights or legal procedures, but 99% of the people online using the word "entitled" don't know and don't care what it normally means and only use it in the pejorative sense.

    By the way: You complain about people complaining too much whenever something money-related comes up. But I know that for every single person complaining in that direction, there is at least one other person (and usually more) like you, repeating these exact points EVERY SINGLE TIME. If you were any more level-headed than those people you want to see out, you might have a point that those people are "problematic", but you really are a part of the problem.


    Posted in: General Discussion
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