Mana Wyrm is just a strong 1 drop, as many people have seen here. I see what you're saying, about it being an auto two-of in every mage deck for forever (which is supposedly what Ben Brode and crew hate to have in this game), but yeah... Mage would need another viable 1 drop to take it's spot. 1/2 is simply too weak.
Northshire Cleric I would say is more troublesome. Especially with a Power word Shield and that Kabal Talonpriest... Throw in that Shadow ascendant thing too. I hate that card more, but I understand why priest needs it.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
It's a three hp minion. Most classes can deal with that quite easily.
Not before it connects with your face for 3-4 damage. And then it still requires removal or a trade. That's an insane amount of value for a 1-cost card.
It's a three hp minion. Most classes can deal with that quite easily.
Not before it connects with your face for 3-4 damage. And then it still requires removal or a trade. That's an insane amount of value for a 1-cost card.
It's value is relative to what happens after its played, which allows the opponent a chance to respond. That 3-4 damage to face isn't just a one cost card is it? Spells on the following turns need to be cast for any form of value to develop. This allows to kill it, silence it, taunt it and so on.
Other 1/3 minions like Voidwalker or Dire Mole (also costing one mana) represent value in different ways, too lock and beast decks too.
The stat line and its time to ramp up means Mana wyrm is fine as it is. Calls to nerf it in a silence heavy meta really are silly.
As many have said .. the problem isn't with Mana Wyrm by itself. It's when you get Wyrm > Coin > Lackey > Runes. Now you have a problem. You have a 3/3 and a 2/1 on board, and your potential removal is going to result in more damage ... and it's going to be killed.
IMHO .. the problematic card is Cabal Lackey. Almost every card that cheats the mana curve causes problems.
It could also be argued (as it has been, several times), that The Coin is the problem. Counting it as a spell causes more than it's fair share of issues.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
how many times should i comment to this. no its not mana wyrms fault, no its not fireballs fault, the weapon is fine because this is an ooze meta, the frostbolt is not great.
the problem is "YOUR NEXT SECRET COST 0" such a broken synergy with: that shitty 2/1 minion (idk even know the name because none played it before)on turn 1 + explosive runes.
Yeah! seems balanced, ok so its my turn 2. My turn 2 is (50% of the time) a minion 2/3 or 2/2. or yk what, i will pass my turn because i dont want to get damaged, oh and then next turn comes and he jams another secret.
I would rather they give tunnel trogg back than nerfing Mana wyrm. If they get rid of trogg nerf Fiery War Axe then I can see them getting rid of Mana Wyrm and Northsire Clerk. When was the last priest (of any build) that did not drop a NC on turn 1?
I think one of the main reasons Mana Wyrm is more of a problem right now is due to the Fiery War Axe nerf. It allowed warriors to exist in the meta and keep snowball cards like it or Northshire in check, since warriors could always deal with them. It's not the case now...
I think we can all agree that Hearthstone has had a history of broken one-drops...
I really like how you took a phrase commonly associated with begging the question and instead used it as part of a non-sequitur argument. Mana Wyrm is a great card if you can get in your opening. It's a terrible late-game topdeck, and hardly broken. People tend to only remember the times they just missed the bus and not the times they got to the stop and it showed up a few minutes later. That's known as confirmation bias. Thing is you may never know if they topdecked the thing instead of the fireball or ice block they were praying for because they never play the wyrm and just lose.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I currently have 9 different mage's deck lists, and I try to use them all for what I can, and Mana Wyrm is in only three of them. And those three aren't even the ones with the highest win rate.
My only problem with mana wyrm is that rogue has no 1 card answer for it. Backstab doesn't kill it without wasting your 2nd turn on weapon, none of your cheap minions have 3 attack, and if mirror image is played you pretty much concede because you're only going to kill it if you waste an eviscerate on it at that point.
That's extremely petty and no reason to remove the card, though.
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Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
The problem with removing mana wyrm is the same every class faces: if you don't have an early, sticky threat specifically on turn 1, the class falls apart. Look at shaman: the moment it lost tunnel trogg, the class immediately plummeted out of tier 1. You can look at Warlock and Priest decks and attribute much of their ability to succeed to having a viable 1-drop. Especially when you look at mage, they have absolutely zero tools to deal with the early game if you remove mana wyrm and that class would almost certainly go in one of two directions: revert back to over-board control style play like freeze mage, or collapse. Unless you put in another 1/3 1-drop, mana wyrm simply cannot be removed.
^ So much this. This is something most players don't understand and it is why I am glad the vast majority of players will never have a serious say in how the game should be balanced.
I get it. Aggro needs curbs to prevent it from getting too strong as we know it has in the past, but making all one drops bad is most certainly not the answer unless we want more future decks that are on par with Control/Cube Lock. In most cases aggro decks depend on a good first turn play in order to set the tempo. Without tempo the entire archtype is much more prone to losing to control since aggro is not going to win the value game. Without a turn one play that makes the control player feel pressured/threatened how are aggressive decks to take hold of and maintain tempo?
Burn Mage was tolerable before the patch because it was weak in a lot of matchups and thus not played too often. After the patch, control warlock went from being a top meta deck to by far the most dominant deck. There were only two ways to deal with the insane wall of taunts control warlock creates: 1) win super quickly or 2) win with non-minion face damage. Well, with patches and creeper nerfed, aggro decks can no longer get to warlock early enough. And with Raza nerfed, one of the only two non-minion face decks is gone.
That leaves burn Mage, which is why everyone and their mother is playing it now, and why people are complaint about it. Once again, Blizzard swung the nerf bat and missed. Somehow they made the meta worse.
Northshire cleric is even worse then mana wyrm.Let cleric draw 5 or more cards and you will see the apocalypse coming in the following turns. Mage secrets are the problem,not the wyrm,and i am particularly referring to runes and counterspell.
lolz you only are targeting those secrets because they're the only secrets in secret burn mage but just a while back it was Ice Block that everyone was wanting nerfed (or removed).
If you really want to know what I think the problem with burn mage is (which you probably don't but I'm going to tell you anyways) it's Fireball.
This stupid card has been in literally EVERY burn mage deck since the beginning of this game. I for one think that if there's any card that needs to be moved to wild its Fireball. I wouldn't mind if they just removed it from the game altogether and gave the mage another spell (or perhaps changed Fireball to a different effect). I'm totally ok with the card off of Archmage Antonidas (as long as they're not infinite instant wins) but just popping 2 in your deck to do nearly half your opponent's health in damage has (in my opinion) been a bit problematic in mage for quite some time.
Why rogue can't have conceal, warlock can't have PO (warrior can't have 2 manas 3/2 weapon) but mage can have the more broken 1 mana minion in Standard?
This is the problem with HoF concept, in my opinion all classic cards should rotate or all be in Standard, this partial solutions are terrible.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
It's fine. It rarely can get out of control unless your playing too big/greedy of a deck.
As many have said .. the problem isn't with Mana Wyrm by itself. It's when you get Wyrm > Coin > Lackey > Runes. Now you have a problem. You have a 3/3 and a 2/1 on board, and your potential removal is going to result in more damage ... and it's going to be killed.
IMHO .. the problematic card is Cabal Lackey. Almost every card that cheats the mana curve causes problems.
It could also be argued (as it has been, several times), that The Coin is the problem. Counting it as a spell causes more than it's fair share of issues.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Well Lackey is gone in a couple months
It's just annoying to me that when I queue into a secret/tempo mage they ALWAYS have Mana wyrm into arcanologist/frostbolt.
how many times should i comment to this. no its not mana wyrms fault, no its not fireballs fault, the weapon is fine because this is an ooze meta, the frostbolt is not great.
the problem is "YOUR NEXT SECRET COST 0" such a broken synergy with: that shitty 2/1 minion (idk even know the name because none played it before)on turn 1 + explosive runes.
Yeah! seems balanced, ok so its my turn 2. My turn 2 is (50% of the time) a minion 2/3 or 2/2. or yk what, i will pass my turn because i dont want to get damaged, oh and then next turn comes and he jams another secret.
Nice, well played, concede
Blizzard is a lie for money lul
I would rather see a change to Kabal Crystal Runner
I would rather they give tunnel trogg back than nerfing Mana wyrm. If they get rid of trogg nerf Fiery War Axe then I can see them getting rid of Mana Wyrm and Northsire Clerk. When was the last priest (of any build) that did not drop a NC on turn 1?
I think one of the main reasons Mana Wyrm is more of a problem right now is due to the Fiery War Axe nerf. It allowed warriors to exist in the meta and keep snowball cards like it or Northshire in check, since warriors could always deal with them. It's not the case now...
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
My God, people will literally complain about everything
I currently have 9 different mage's deck lists, and I try to use them all for what I can, and Mana Wyrm is in only three of them. And those three aren't even the ones with the highest win rate.
My only problem with mana wyrm is that rogue has no 1 card answer for it. Backstab doesn't kill it without wasting your 2nd turn on weapon, none of your cheap minions have 3 attack, and if mirror image is played you pretty much concede because you're only going to kill it if you waste an eviscerate on it at that point.
That's extremely petty and no reason to remove the card, though.
Look at this thing and let me know what you think!
Burn Mage was tolerable before the patch because it was weak in a lot of matchups and thus not played too often. After the patch, control warlock went from being a top meta deck to by far the most dominant deck. There were only two ways to deal with the insane wall of taunts control warlock creates: 1) win super quickly or 2) win with non-minion face damage. Well, with patches and creeper nerfed, aggro decks can no longer get to warlock early enough. And with Raza nerfed, one of the only two non-minion face decks is gone.
That leaves burn Mage, which is why everyone and their mother is playing it now, and why people are complaint about it. Once again, Blizzard swung the nerf bat and missed. Somehow they made the meta worse.
lolz you only are targeting those secrets because they're the only secrets in secret burn mage but just a while back it was Ice Block that everyone was wanting nerfed (or removed).
If you really want to know what I think the problem with burn mage is (which you probably don't but I'm going to tell you anyways) it's Fireball.
This stupid card has been in literally EVERY burn mage deck since the beginning of this game. I for one think that if there's any card that needs to be moved to wild its Fireball. I wouldn't mind if they just removed it from the game altogether and gave the mage another spell (or perhaps changed Fireball to a different effect). I'm totally ok with the card off of Archmage Antonidas (as long as they're not infinite instant wins) but just popping 2 in your deck to do nearly half your opponent's health in damage has (in my opinion) been a bit problematic in mage for quite some time.
It is ok by itself but always can be asked.
Why rogue can't have conceal, warlock can't have PO (warrior can't have 2 manas 3/2 weapon) but mage can have the more broken 1 mana minion in Standard?
This is the problem with HoF concept, in my opinion all classic cards should rotate or all be in Standard, this partial solutions are terrible.