A few days ago I was scrolling trough my collection and I saw the card that could sometimes shine but now it is absolute garbage. Of course I'm talking about Dreadsteed. About that Demonic 4 mana 1/1 horse that sometimes could shine with Mal'Ganis and such but was raped and destroyed by Blizzard after they introduced Defile. After thinking about it, I have come into conclusion that this change was not necessary at all. Just think about it: Even though there is full boarclear at 6 mana, Defile is still looped at max 20 or 14 triggers (I can't remember now correctly). And while it is still a pretty powerfull boarclear at 6 mana, don't forget about board wipes like Pyro+Equality or Doomsayer+Treachery which are slightly worse against Dethrattle minnions. Also the deck which will run this combo won't have N'Zoth or Guldan as a finisher because Dreadsteed messes up their ressurection pool really a lot. 7 or 6 1/1 in late game is not impressive at all especially in Wild mode. Did I mention how shitty is this card as a standalone one? It is a 4 mana 1/1 vulnerable to silence,transform effect and basically agasint any minion that have 2 health (So he can't trade with it efficiently). "But FirePaladin, they changed it so stupid OTK with Kniffe Jugglers won't happen". I disagree with that. First Point: As I mentioned, there are ton of Silence and Transform effect in Wild. Second Point: there are combo disruptive cards so it is not easy to pull up. Even if the pull it up it is not OTK with 1 Dreadsteed. The only reason why it is working with Patrons and Necrotic Geist is the fact that mulltiple Patrons and Ghouls tokens are summoned at the same time so Juggler gets multiple triggers from 1 round of Defile.
So after taking into consideration all of this. Would you really mind it? It will be a powerfull combo with Defile, but certainly not broken or game breaking.
Also Dreadsteed is terrible against Frost Lich Jaina. It can also be used against you in mirrors. And the otk, I think the 3 mana 2/4 is the offender, not Dreadsteed
On top of the reasons you listed, I'd be okay with it getting unnerfed because pulling off this combo would completely ruin your Bloodreaver Gul'dan's battlecry. That alone would leave that combo - while still a powerful board clear - out of most (if not all) top tier decks.
On top of the reasons you listed, I'd be okay with it getting unnerfed because pulling off this combo would completely ruin your Bloodreaver Gul'dan's battlecry. That alone would leave that combo - while still a powerful board clear - out of most (if not all) top tier decks.
Definitelly agree with that. Like Wild Evenlock might/maybe benefit from it, but not that much since it is low Tier 2 deck right now and that is only because of the Guldan.
I don't know, man. I don't think it's unbalanced, I just think this game shouldn't reliably fall on this kind of unwritten rules to work. I mean, those cards should go infinite. The reason why they don't is to avoid bugging some games where it could actually happen, but this should be an exception to me, not the rule. If every two game there's some buggy thing that keeps being abused by players to do something, even if it's balanced after all, well there's something wrong in the game because, you know, it's buggy. Not that there can't be a way to make this a proper thing in the game after all, but it should be clearly stated on cards or an alternative solution to infinite triggers should be chosen.
I mean, would you like to see a board clear based on repeatedly buffing every minion on board? Some thing that keeps happening by itself so that it can't be an OTK, just a buggy clear. Even for 8 mana, even for 3 cards, would you like it to stay in the game?
I don't know, man. I don't think it's unbalanced, I just think this game shouldn't reliably fall on this kind of unwritten rules to work. I mean, those cards should go infinite. The reason why they don't is to avoid bugging some games where it could actually happen, but this should be an exception to me, not the rule. If every two game there's some buggy thing that keeps being abused by players to do something, even if it's balanced after all, well there's something wrong in the game because, you know, it's buggy. Not that there can't be a way to make this a proper thing in the game after all, but it should be clearly stated on cards or an alternative solution to infinite triggers should be chosen.
I mean, would you like to see a board clear based on repeatedly buffing every minion on board? Some thing that keeps happening by itself so that it can't be an OTK, just a buggy clear. Even for 8 mana, even for 3 cards, would you like it to stay in the game?
I'm okay with that as longs as it's counterable. And this is counterable with a few mechanics and options available in the game. It is not like the Silence or Transform effect is not runned in any Tier 1 or 2 decks (Well,except maybe Druid ones). Also you need to take into consideration that it is Wild, and evenutally even without Dreadsteed+Defilke combo, there will be broken/powerfull things in it. Afterall, it is Wild which powerlevel is way higher than the Standart decks. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Warlock would not benefit from 2 masive clear all the board boardclears if his ressurection pool with N'Zoth and Guldan is polluted with a 1/1. Thats is just too weak as a wincondition.
Even if the unnerf happens, I don't think anybody would play it because it's just not worth it to lose both N'Zoth and Gul'Dan for one more board clear. Warlock already has more than enough AoEs.
Yup. That is one of the reaons why I'm totally ok with that.
Knife Juggler + Deathspeaker + Dreadsteed + Defile is what worried them I guess. It's 11 Mana, but it's not that hard to either create multiple Steeds or get 1 Emperor Thaurissan tick on one of those cards.
As I mentioned in my first post, it is counterable though. Silence,Transform,Dirty Rat,Coldlight for overdrawing, Deatlord are all here to not let that happen and to give you chance to win the game.
Everyone be all like "defile combos" or whatever, but think about it like this: with a few Dreadsteeds on board, you could Curse of Weakness a few times and get free damage onto his minions, and deny attacks for the next turn. I've tried this in my crappy evenlock, and it really worked (however I am rank 20 in wild, so my opponents may not have been very good). Anyways, we can only hope for the best for our favourite death horse.
But one thing that everyone can agree on: Dreadsteed has the best deathrattle animation in the game.
Dreadsteed was not nerfed because it was broken, but because it's interaction with the mechanics of Defile would have broken the game. Could they have done a better job? Sure, but I think they were looking to prevent problems with designs in the future.
Dreadsteed was not nerfed because it was broken, but because it's interaction with the mechanics of Defile would have broken the game. Could they have done a better job? Sure, but I think they were looking to prevent problems with designs in the future.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has realized that the nerf was for no reason due to the defile loop naturally ending eventually anyway.
I was actually in the process of putting together the Ponylock deck that was on here from another user awhile ago since it also made other meme cards kind of good (e.g. Anima Golem & Noggenfogger) & then this happened and more or less killed those combos. The old Dreadsteed actually made MORE CARDS see play because they became more consistent.
Although I would disagree that having 7 neverending 1/1s is not good in wild against every class. I use my own version of a Ponylock & Malylock hybrid & having a full board of 1/1s with Bloodreaver Gul'Dan's hero power is strong against rogue, any form of paladin, and warrior. True it isn't good against priest due to Psychic Scream & Mass Dispel or against shaman due to Devolve, but that is why I built an OTK into the deck as a fail safe.
Dreadsteed was not nerfed because it was broken, but because it's interaction with the mechanics of Defile would have broken the game. Could they have done a better job? Sure, but I think they were looking to prevent problems with designs in the future.
What FirePaly already said. The excuse was total BS. I use the Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker, Geist OTK as one of my many fun combo decks, which spawns ghouls continually with defile seemingly proccing indefinitely until you realize that the loop eventually stops.
The changes to Dreadsteed were due to Defile as noted in a Blue Post on Blizz forums. With that said, I believe your arguments about Defile being capped at 14, and even the Deathspeaker + Necrotic Geist combo.
Still thinking about how much harder your Knife Juggler combination is to achieve now, vs any Warlock deck auto including Dreadsteed + Knife Juggler + Defile. That's an 8 mana, 3 card combo, for minimum 14 damage if the loop max is true, and Dreadsteed was unnerfed.
I really liked the idea of Dreadsteed, this undying creature that just keeps coming back, now it's an undying creature with a broken leg, not to talk about the many cards that counter it or the fact that if you buff it it still comes back as a 1/1
Dreadsteed should be unnerfed and get a soft cap to work with Defile and Grim Patron. I do not think the card will pose any problem in competitive play and it would bring a lot of fun back to the game
Even if the unnerf happens, I don't think anybody would play it because it's just not worth it to lose both N'Zoth and Gul'Dan for one more board clear. Warlock already has more than enough AoEs.
Yup. That is one of the reaons why I'm totally ok with that.
i Second it, using dreadsteed should be its own deck tbh, because as stated by many others, Dreadsteed would compeltely ruin your N'zoth and Gul'dan pools, also defile only repeats to a max of 14 times which should be written on the card, it shouldn't even be a hidden rule. In fact the fact that blizzard didn't type it is absolutely befuddling, every card game that has this possible loop with repeated casts and has to hard cap a card, literally has the hard cap written on the card.
So basically dreadsteed would be a boardclear on its own deck, probably featuring KT and Anima Golem but not in cubelock or controlock because he messes the deathrattle and demon resurrection pools.
The difference between the Dreadsteed Defile loop and the other defile loops is that the dreadsteed one requires one card to pull off. The 14 cap was there because blizzard knew it can still be pulled off, but is much more difficult.
But more importantly, the Dreadsteed Defile combo becomes a 6 mana twisting nether that also removes most any deathrattle effects. But more importantly, since Dreadsteed can't easily be removed, once you play Dreadsteed in a prior turn, for two mana you can clear the board and have 8 mana to fill it up. It's not a 6 mana board clear, it's a 2 mana clear. That's way too powerful.
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A few days ago I was scrolling trough my collection and I saw the card that could sometimes shine but now it is absolute garbage. Of course I'm talking about Dreadsteed. About that Demonic 4 mana 1/1 horse that sometimes could shine with Mal'Ganis and such but was raped and destroyed by Blizzard after they introduced Defile. After thinking about it, I have come into conclusion that this change was not necessary at all. Just think about it: Even though there is full boarclear at 6 mana, Defile is still looped at max 20 or 14 triggers (I can't remember now correctly). And while it is still a pretty powerfull boarclear at 6 mana, don't forget about board wipes like Pyro+Equality or Doomsayer+Treachery which are slightly worse against Dethrattle minnions. Also the deck which will run this combo won't have N'Zoth or Guldan as a finisher because Dreadsteed messes up their ressurection pool really a lot. 7 or 6 1/1 in late game is not impressive at all especially in Wild mode. Did I mention how shitty is this card as a standalone one? It is a 4 mana 1/1 vulnerable to silence,transform effect and basically agasint any minion that have 2 health (So he can't trade with it efficiently). "But FirePaladin, they changed it so stupid OTK with Kniffe Jugglers won't happen". I disagree with that. First Point: As I mentioned, there are ton of Silence and Transform effect in Wild. Second Point: there are combo disruptive cards so it is not easy to pull up. Even if the pull it up it is not OTK with 1 Dreadsteed. The only reason why it is working with Patrons and Necrotic Geist is the fact that mulltiple Patrons and Ghouls tokens are summoned at the same time so Juggler gets multiple triggers from 1 round of Defile.
So after taking into consideration all of this. Would you really mind it? It will be a powerfull combo with Defile, but certainly not broken or game breaking.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Also Dreadsteed is terrible against Frost Lich Jaina. It can also be used against you in mirrors. And the otk, I think the 3 mana 2/4 is the offender, not Dreadsteed
On top of the reasons you listed, I'd be okay with it getting unnerfed because pulling off this combo would completely ruin your Bloodreaver Gul'dan's battlecry. That alone would leave that combo - while still a powerful board clear - out of most (if not all) top tier decks.
Oh, I remember having some awesome time with dreadsteed, jaraxxus and malganis before the nerfs! Wouldn't mind at all really.
Golden heroes: Warlock, Druid, Mage, Hunter
Definitelly agree with that. Like Wild Evenlock might/maybe benefit from it, but not that much since it is low Tier 2 deck right now and that is only because of the Guldan.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I don't know, man. I don't think it's unbalanced, I just think this game shouldn't reliably fall on this kind of unwritten rules to work. I mean, those cards should go infinite. The reason why they don't is to avoid bugging some games where it could actually happen, but this should be an exception to me, not the rule. If every two game there's some buggy thing that keeps being abused by players to do something, even if it's balanced after all, well there's something wrong in the game because, you know, it's buggy. Not that there can't be a way to make this a proper thing in the game after all, but it should be clearly stated on cards or an alternative solution to infinite triggers should be chosen.
I mean, would you like to see a board clear based on repeatedly buffing every minion on board? Some thing that keeps happening by itself so that it can't be an OTK, just a buggy clear. Even for 8 mana, even for 3 cards, would you like it to stay in the game?
I'm okay with that as longs as it's counterable. And this is counterable with a few mechanics and options available in the game. It is not like the Silence or Transform effect is not runned in any Tier 1 or 2 decks (Well,except maybe Druid ones). Also you need to take into consideration that it is Wild, and evenutally even without Dreadsteed+Defilke combo, there will be broken/powerfull things in it. Afterall, it is Wild which powerlevel is way higher than the Standart decks. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Warlock would not benefit from 2 masive clear all the board boardclears if his ressurection pool with N'Zoth and Guldan is polluted with a 1/1. Thats is just too weak as a wincondition.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Yup. That is one of the reaons why I'm totally ok with that.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
As I mentioned in my first post, it is counterable though. Silence,Transform,Dirty Rat,Coldlight for overdrawing, Deatlord are all here to not let that happen and to give you chance to win the game.
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
Everyone be all like "defile combos" or whatever, but think about it like this: with a few Dreadsteeds on board, you could Curse of Weakness a few times and get free damage onto his minions, and deny attacks for the next turn. I've tried this in my crappy evenlock, and it really worked (however I am rank 20 in wild, so my opponents may not have been very good). Anyways, we can only hope for the best for our favourite death horse.
But one thing that everyone can agree on: Dreadsteed has the best deathrattle animation in the game.
I really wouldn't mind the unnerf of Dreadsteed. Kinda want to use it again and have fun with it :)
Dreadsteed was not nerfed because it was broken, but because it's interaction with the mechanics of Defile would have broken the game. Could they have done a better job? Sure, but I think they were looking to prevent problems with designs in the future.
Nerf of the Dreadsteed was not neccessary at all if we take into cinsideration that Defile is looped at 14 triggers. (Source :https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Defile )
Moving into https://outof.cards/members/firepaladinhs/decks
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has realized that the nerf was for no reason due to the defile loop naturally ending eventually anyway.
I was actually in the process of putting together the Ponylock deck that was on here from another user awhile ago since it also made other meme cards kind of good (e.g. Anima Golem & Noggenfogger) & then this happened and more or less killed those combos. The old Dreadsteed actually made MORE CARDS see play because they became more consistent.
Although I would disagree that having 7 neverending 1/1s is not good in wild against every class. I use my own version of a Ponylock & Malylock hybrid & having a full board of 1/1s with Bloodreaver Gul'Dan's hero power is strong against rogue, any form of paladin, and warrior. True it isn't good against priest due to Psychic Scream & Mass Dispel or against shaman due to Devolve, but that is why I built an OTK into the deck as a fail safe.
What FirePaly already said. The excuse was total BS. I use the Knife Juggler, Deathspeaker, Geist OTK as one of my many fun combo decks, which spawns ghouls continually with defile seemingly proccing indefinitely until you realize that the loop eventually stops.
There is no infinite loop with defile.
The changes to Dreadsteed were due to Defile as noted in a Blue Post on Blizz forums. With that said, I believe your arguments about Defile being capped at 14, and even the Deathspeaker + Necrotic Geist combo.
Still thinking about how much harder your Knife Juggler combination is to achieve now, vs any Warlock deck auto including Dreadsteed + Knife Juggler + Defile. That's an 8 mana, 3 card combo, for minimum 14 damage if the loop max is true, and Dreadsteed was unnerfed.
I really liked the idea of Dreadsteed, this undying creature that just keeps coming back, now it's an undying creature with a broken leg, not to talk about the many cards that counter it or the fact that if you buff it it still comes back as a 1/1
Don't mind me just passing by
Dreadsteed should be unnerfed and get a soft cap to work with Defile and Grim Patron.
I do not think the card will pose any problem in competitive play and it would bring a lot of fun back to the game
i Second it, using dreadsteed should be its own deck tbh, because as stated by many others, Dreadsteed would compeltely ruin your N'zoth and Gul'dan pools, also defile only repeats to a max of 14 times which should be written on the card, it shouldn't even be a hidden rule. In fact the fact that blizzard didn't type it is absolutely befuddling, every card game that has this possible loop with repeated casts and has to hard cap a card, literally has the hard cap written on the card.
So basically dreadsteed would be a boardclear on its own deck, probably featuring KT and Anima Golem but not in cubelock or controlock because he messes the deathrattle and demon resurrection pools.
The difference between the Dreadsteed Defile loop and the other defile loops is that the dreadsteed one requires one card to pull off. The 14 cap was there because blizzard knew it can still be pulled off, but is much more difficult.
But more importantly, the Dreadsteed Defile combo becomes a 6 mana twisting nether that also removes most any deathrattle effects. But more importantly, since Dreadsteed can't easily be removed, once you play Dreadsteed in a prior turn, for two mana you can clear the board and have 8 mana to fill it up. It's not a 6 mana board clear, it's a 2 mana clear. That's way too powerful.