So, I just finished getting to legend in standard with quest rogue, and I thought I'd post my stats to show just how bad this deck is.
As you can see, I finished with a horrible 56% winrate, the lowest winrate I've ever had with a deck I climbed to legend with (highest was post-nerf S36 aggro shaman @ 65%, last season was aggro murlocdin @ 62%). The deck also lost to both hunter AND mage (not really counting warlock since that's a sample size of 3), usually I don't have < .500 matchups against a class, let alone 2 classes that I'm under .500 against.
Matchups are very polarized, unfortunately I don't have a breakdown of the archetypes so the #s are a bit deceiving. My druid matchup is 45-41, but token druid was a very hard matchup, whereas I beat jade druid 9 times out of 10. Warrior was interesting, taunt warrior was slightly favored, and pirate warrior wasn't as big of a disadvantage as you would think if you play correctly.
Interestingly enough, this deck destroyed shaman, as most people are playing the evolve version of token shaman, which is slow and susceptible to vanish.
Some side notes:
v1.6 of the deck is the main version, list here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/852204-s38-quest-rogue v1.7 swapped igneous elemental for hungry crabs, this version does NOT work, don't bother v1.8 swapped bilefin for hungry crabs, this version is also inferior (though bouncing a hungry crab against a murlocdin 4 times is probably some of the most fun I've ever had in a quest rogue game)
With coin: 58% win, without coin: 54% win (The extra card + the coin to pop counterspell is a huge edge for this deck). Times won without finishing quest (and by beating their ass with 1/1s, not by someone conceding randomly): 1 time: https://hsreplay.net/replay/VKCnFuYpepeBf5SrjENjxb
TL;DR Quest Rogue is a bad bottom tier deck, quit whining about it.
TL:DR you cant play anything slow because that shitty deck and meta is full of aggro shit thx to idiots like you
He did everyone a service by giving the data. Its a shitty annoying deck, but if people like him keep pushing the truth, less and less people will play it.
That is, ofcourse, until slower decks make up more of the meta. Then it'll be a popular meta deck and the cycle will repeat
Lol, I love how this thread is predicated on the assumption that 56% winrate is actually bad and that assumption is made all the more hilarious by the fact that the deck was taken to legend with that winrate. This is proof that the deck is at the very least a tier 1-2 deck or a tier 3 deck that works well on ladder. More importantly, since the deck is a very straightforward deck, the 56% win rate is likely just above the win rate that an average player capable of hitting legend would achieve with the deck even if his skill helped carry him a little further than most.
That being said, quest rogue isn't broken, it just coin flips a lot of the time and can win/lose based on matchup. The issue with the deck is that it invalidates certain deck types and forces a faster meta. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can make for a frustrating experience for many players hence the complaints about the deck.
In my honest opinion, this meta is incredibly fun and while I prefer something a bit on the slower side of things, invalidating fatigue decks is good for the game and when all is said and done, Quest Rogue isn't broken and its effect on the game, while not ideal, doesn't seem to hurt the game.
The overall winrate for quest rogue is < 50%. My winrate with a given deck is usually ~ 8 - 10% higher than the average. My miracle rogue winrate a couple seasons ago was also in the upper 50s, and that was definitely not top tier (it just didn't get as many complaints because it's not nearly as annoying). I got to legend in wild this season with maly rogue at a 59% winrate, that's also not top tier. So yes, 56% win IS actually a terrible winrate in this situation. If you take the winrate in a vacuum, sure it looks good, but if you compare it to other decks I've played the last 3 seasons it's terrible.
It currently shows that crystal rogue is 49%, which is a tad higher than it was last week (47%). Again, more evidence that quest rogue is not a T1/2 deck. I'm going to agree that quest rogue is bad design (but so is quest warrior, and primordial glyph), but it's definitely not OP.
As for playing 40 hours of quest rogue in a month, I actually found the deck pretty fun to play. Not very fun to play AGAINST, but that's the other person's problem.
Fatigue decks have already been invalidated by jade druid, and to a lesser extent jade shaman.
So, I just finished getting to legend in standard with quest rogue, and I thought I'd post my stats to show just how bad this deck is.
As you can see, I finished with a horrible 56% winrate, the lowest winrate I've ever had with a deck I climbed to legend with (highest was post-nerf S36 aggro shaman @ 65%, last season was aggro murlocdin @ 62%).
TL:DR you cant play anything slow because that shitty deck and meta is full of aggro shit thx to idiots like you
Yeah, let's blame Quest Rogue for aggro decks. Just completely ignore the prior existence of Pirate Warrior. Good job!
The funny thing is quest rogue has drastically declined in popularity the past few weeks, yet people are still blaming it for shit.
Again, my stats show 441 games, 39 of which were against rogue (8.8%). Some of those were miracle. Vicious syndicate shows that quest rogue is 7% of the meta, and my #s are more or less exactly in line with that once you take out the miracle rogue games. Yeah, if you play a stupidly greedy deck you're going to get slammed by a quest rogue once every 14 games, and there's other horrible matchups for greed decks, so that's partly discouraged (and that's a good thing), but people sure as hell aren't playing aggro to get a favorable matchup once in a while, they're playing aggro because aggro decks are cheap and/or they want to play aggro.
Personally I play relatively fast decks because I don't want to spend 20 minutes playing 1 game. Out of the many decks I've played since ungoro (miracle/quest rogue, token shaman/druid, pirate warrior, aggro murlocdin, control paladin, maly rogue in wild), the majority are fast decks in 1 way or another. During mean streets I played just aggro shaman since that was the only deck I had.
Well, I'd rather be the one playing the cancer deck than getting smashed by them. During mean streets I could only make 1 deck so I picked the top meta deck to make. If I'm only going to be playing 1 deck then why not make it a good one?
q rogue is actually a deck which requires a lot of skill and experience to pilot it correctly.
you can do a ton of missplays in every turn, starting with the mulligan and I guess OP will confirm it after playing it 40 hours a months
(I think I even played it more hours). watching players at lower ranks playing this deck is a horrible nightmare. not only that most of the people are using outdated lists, they also simply don't know how to play it correct.
therefore I give a shit about VS data because I guess that people who they take the data from, can't play this deck as they should.
in my example, I am at 68% winrate this season - only at legend ranks. surely the meta is different at each rank and OP will also confirm to me that q rogue performs a lot better at legend than between 5 - legend where you will queue in a lot more aggro decks and that's why OP finished with only 56%. this winrate will increase a lot at high legend since you will face a lo more slower decks usually.
q rogue is not shit. it is just shit if not played correctly. not many people know how to do so so it's t3 in data report.
So, I just finished getting to legend in standard with quest rogue, and I thought I'd post my stats to show just how bad this deck is.
As you can see, I finished with a horrible 56% winrate, the lowest winrate I've ever had with a deck I climbed to legend with (highest was post-nerf S36 aggro shaman @ 65%, last season was aggro murlocdin @ 62%). The deck also lost to both hunter AND mage (not really counting warlock since that's a sample size of 3), usually I don't have < .500 matchups against a class, let alone 2 classes that I'm under .500 against.
Matchups are very polarized, unfortunately I don't have a breakdown of the archetypes so the #s are a bit deceiving. My druid matchup is 45-41, but token druid was a very hard matchup, whereas I beat jade druid 9 times out of 10. Warrior was interesting, taunt warrior was slightly favored, and pirate warrior wasn't as big of a disadvantage as you would think if you play correctly.
Interestingly enough, this deck destroyed shaman, as most people are playing the evolve version of token shaman, which is slow and susceptible to vanish.
Some side notes:
v1.6 of the deck is the main version, list here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/852204-s38-quest-rogue
v1.7 swapped igneous elemental for hungry crabs, this version does NOT work, don't bother
v1.8 swapped bilefin for hungry crabs, this version is also inferior (though bouncing a hungry crab against a murlocdin 4 times is probably some of the most fun I've ever had in a quest rogue game)
With coin: 58% win, without coin: 54% win (The extra card + the coin to pop counterspell is a huge edge for this deck).
Times won without finishing quest (and by beating their ass with 1/1s, not by someone conceding randomly): 1 time: https://hsreplay.net/replay/VKCnFuYpepeBf5SrjENjxb
TL;DR Quest Rogue is a bad bottom tier deck, quit whining about it.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
TL:DR you cant play anything slow because that shitty deck and meta is full of aggro shit thx to idiots like you
I think whining about QR shifted from opness to how polarised and uninteractive games are with it, a while ago.
I think very few players are playing QR for the winrates. More for laziness maybe.
QR is still a meta deck (assuming a meta deck is anything above 50% wr). Problem is its bad design, and that's well-known.
Awesome job OP, objective stats that it is hard to argue with (some people will still try but what are ya gonna do right?).
Cheers.
Ibn Fahd.
Saying that Quest Rogue has a 56% win rate doesn't make it sound like it's Tier 3.
We knew this many of us, but the deck is actually good in wild. Just add healbot and beats aggro.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
Lol, I love how this thread is predicated on the assumption that 56% winrate is actually bad and that assumption is made all the more hilarious by the fact that the deck was taken to legend with that winrate. This is proof that the deck is at the very least a tier 1-2 deck or a tier 3 deck that works well on ladder. More importantly, since the deck is a very straightforward deck, the 56% win rate is likely just above the win rate that an average player capable of hitting legend would achieve with the deck even if his skill helped carry him a little further than most.
That being said, quest rogue isn't broken, it just coin flips a lot of the time and can win/lose based on matchup. The issue with the deck is that it invalidates certain deck types and forces a faster meta. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can make for a frustrating experience for many players hence the complaints about the deck.
In my honest opinion, this meta is incredibly fun and while I prefer something a bit on the slower side of things, invalidating fatigue decks is good for the game and when all is said and done, Quest Rogue isn't broken and its effect on the game, while not ideal, doesn't seem to hurt the game.
The overall winrate for quest rogue is < 50%. My winrate with a given deck is usually ~ 8 - 10% higher than the average. My miracle rogue winrate a couple seasons ago was also in the upper 50s, and that was definitely not top tier (it just didn't get as many complaints because it's not nearly as annoying). I got to legend in wild this season with maly rogue at a 59% winrate, that's also not top tier. So yes, 56% win IS actually a terrible winrate in this situation. If you take the winrate in a vacuum, sure it looks good, but if you compare it to other decks I've played the last 3 seasons it's terrible.
There's hard stats here as well: http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/data-reaper-live-beta/
It currently shows that crystal rogue is 49%, which is a tad higher than it was last week (47%). Again, more evidence that quest rogue is not a T1/2 deck. I'm going to agree that quest rogue is bad design (but so is quest warrior, and primordial glyph), but it's definitely not OP.
As for playing 40 hours of quest rogue in a month, I actually found the deck pretty fun to play. Not very fun to play AGAINST, but that's the other person's problem.
Fatigue decks have already been invalidated by jade druid, and to a lesser extent jade shaman.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
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S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
with a horrible 56% winrate
horrible 56% winrate
q rogue is actually a deck which requires a lot of skill and experience to pilot it correctly.
you can do a ton of missplays in every turn, starting with the mulligan and I guess OP will confirm it after playing it 40 hours a months
(I think I even played it more hours). watching players at lower ranks playing this deck is a horrible nightmare. not only that most of the people are using outdated lists, they also simply don't know how to play it correct.
therefore I give a shit about VS data because I guess that people who they take the data from, can't play this deck as they should.
in my example, I am at 68% winrate this season - only at legend ranks. surely the meta is different at each rank and OP will also confirm to me that q rogue performs a lot better at legend than between 5 - legend where you will queue in a lot more aggro decks and that's why OP finished with only 56%. this winrate will increase a lot at high legend since you will face a lo more slower decks usually.
q rogue is not shit. it is just shit if not played correctly. not many people know how to do so so it's t3 in data report.
Very funny that people complain about using outdated lists AND netdecking in the same community ;-)
The only reason people complain is that they hate it when QR get the perfect draw and win before turn 5.
Still not as aids as pirate warrior, even after the release of Golakka Crawler and Gluttonous Ooze.