Healthy meta? There are 4 decks in T1 - Quest rogue, Miracle Rogue, Taunt warrior, Pirate warrior... That is not healthy!
You want 10 decks to be tier 1? Besides that's tempostorm tier list it's not set in stone some lists can surpace even the top 4, which actually become much worse the moment they are declared tier 1 since people often tech against those (gollaka crawler, the black knight, dirty rat.. oozes)
Op you forgot handlock and dragon priest(which is actually very strong, AKA historian and drakonid are OP AF)
Just put an Eater in your deck and those smug mages will be free wins. I am REALLY enjoying beating mages these days. They're slow enough you have a good chance of drawing your eater, and so when you get to the inevitable state where you have lethal on the board but they have a secret and start fireballing your face, you eat their ice block and win.
I really like the current meta. I was really tired of Reno and jade/pirate getups. but not because they were so powerful--they were just monotonous after a while. I think OP is making this point. There is some variety available now. I think you could even make the case that aggro Paladin is the strongest aggro deck and who saw that coming? Not me. And the Paladin quest is most definitely not overpowered. I play murloc Paladin and I eat quest rogues consistently.
I think the magic, though, is that the meta is new. It will become stale again and people will groan about it. I do find it hopeful that Blizzard has indicated they will release four expansions [edited] this year. (If I read that right.) That should keep things moving.
In my opinion, this is one of the best metas in Hearthstone's history and is at least a massive step up from the Karazhan and MSoG metas. I'm not certain if it is the best meta (i.e. I really liked the early WotOG meta), but I'm certainly enjoying myself.
Is it a healthy meta? Well...that comes down to your definition of "healthy." For me, I think a healthy meta is one where:
Every class has multiple (i.e. 3 or more) ladder-viable decks, preferably falling under multiple archetypes (i.e. Aggro, Control, Combo, etc.)
The players' skills at playing their decks matters more for winrate than deck matchups (i.e. a very good player should on average beat a very bad player the majority of the time, regardless of what deck they play)
The average game length is in the 8-12 turn range (I'm not saying that there can't be games that end by turn 4 or that go to fatigue, just that neither of those types of games are the norm)
There aren't any overtly overpowered cards that are run in every single deck (i.e. Dr. Boom, Piloted Shredder, etc.)
By that definition, the current meta is...close? Close I guess. I don't think it's perfect but it's in a pretty good place that can hopefully be improved upon in the next expansion. But if you have a different definition for healthy meta then you obviously may feel differently.
The players' skills at playing their decks matters more for winrate than deck matchups (i.e. a very good player should on average beat a very bad player the majority of the time, regardless of what deck they play)
lol you clearly haven't looked at some of the numbers in the Quest Rogue matchup. Many viable decks have significantly less than a 5% win rate against Quest Rogue. If I'm playing those decks on ladder I'll just concede as soon as they play Quest to save me the bother of wasting 5-10 minutes.
That's part of why I said the meta is close to healthy, not that it is. There are too many polarized matchups for me to say that it's perfect but the current meta is a hell of a lot better than some of the previous ones.
EDIT: Also, "significantly less than 5% winrate?" As in it loses to Quest Rogue over 95% of the time? Where are you getting these numbers? Source please.
I started playing right before MSoG dropped as F2P, and it was terrible. Almost overnight, all you saw were Pirate and Jade decks. I decided to pre-order Ungoro to give the state of the game a chance to improve, and I can say I'm glad I did. You see all kinds of decks on the ladder. I also like that you see fewer Tier 1 decks grinding the bottom ranks.
But if it had not improved, I would have given up and found another CCG.
From Rank 19 to Rank 4 i've seen 2 Pirate Warriors, just an interesting statistic.
At the moment more than 20 decks are relevant in the meta ( T1+ T2) if this is not a healthy meta i'm not sure what you expect, really, having 200 viable decks?
Healthy meta?ahahahahahaha nice joke mate,oh wait you are serious let me laugh harder then AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though,the meta is healthy in the dumpster ranks only,in high-legend ranks the meta is still cancer and non diverse.There is rogue and there is warrior along with the recent rise of paladin.If you see a deck of any other class then it will be a hyper smorc one.If you think the meta is healthy you have never played the vanilla hearthstone.This meta is vastly improved in comparisson to msog meta but is still shity.The only healthy non vanilla meta have been the wotog meta.
Funny , I found the opposite happening to me , in the grinding phase between rank 5 and Legend there were alot of PirateWarriors and Questrouge (probably to climb fast) . After I hit Legend there was much more diversity and I'd say only 10% of the games are against those. Good meta so far!
The problem is not that there are FOOPs, because every game needs it to enable new players to be able to compete quickly. The problem with MSoG was that Pirate warrior and Jade became the meta defining decks. In a well-designed set, you have FOOPs to hook new players, but those strategies are supposed to be easily countered by higher skill players/decks.
I think that's one of the main flaws with the meta now. If I was a new player, seeing quest Rogue would be very discouraging. Yes, PW is also a problem, but at least they have minions on the board that are usually low health. At least we can slow them down with AoEs and destroying weapons. How do you think new players respond to seeing the opponents key minions get bounced back to their hand?
The new player could ask how to deal with that and hear about Dirty Rat, but that's not friendly to new players. It's an expensive card and they won't find one in an Ungoro pack. Then when they try to use it, they see it can easily pull a minion that doesn't help them. In fact, it could help a Warrior or Priest opponent.
Talking about top tier decks and QR win rates in higher ranks doesn't help new players. They just want a reliable way to deal with QRs that doesn't totally handicap them against almost every other deck type.
Most of the discussion about QR seems focused on whether or not it's OP. That's certainly a valid question, but there's more to the issue than that. I understand the arguments that QR isn't a problem at higher ranks, but there's more to the game than just ranks 10-Legend. Lower ranked players are a huge part of the player base.
If they put cards like Ice Block, Equality and Brawl in the hall of fame, then I would definitely agree that the meta is healthy.
Not a bad idea. Ice block and brawl especially are getting really tiresome. Equality isn't so bad but if those three cards rotated out the world would be a much Better place. The meta right now is decent IMO. Not great and still needs work, but decent.
If they put cards like Ice Block, Equality and Brawl in the hall of fame, then I would definitely agree that the meta is healthy.
Not a bad idea. Ice block and brawl especially are getting really tiresome. Equality isn't so bad but if those three cards rotated out the world would be a much Better place. The meta right now is decent IMO. Not great and still needs work, but decent.
Wait, what?
Equality and brawl should be the last cards to put into hall of fame. They are strong for sure but only in a control style of deck.
Why should they remove the best cclass aoe that makes control playable in the first place?
Ahhh ,now I know, you guys wanna see more smorC ehh?
If they put cards like Ice Block, Equality and Brawl in the hall of fame, then I would definitely agree that the meta is healthy.
Not a bad idea. Ice block and brawl especially are getting really tiresome. Equality isn't so bad but if those three cards rotated out the world would be a much Better place. The meta right now is decent IMO. Not great and still needs work, but decent.
Wait, what?
Equality and brawl should be the last cards to put into hall of fame. They are strong for sure but only in a control style of deck.
Why should they remove the best cclass aoe that makes control playable in the first place?
Ahhh ,now I know, you guys wanna see more smorC ehh?
They're probably just tired of Brawl RNG deciding games which is a boring way to play.
If they put cards like Ice Block, Equality and Brawl in the hall of fame, then I would definitely agree that the meta is healthy.
Not a bad idea. Ice block and brawl especially are getting really tiresome. Equality isn't so bad but if those three cards rotated out the world would be a much Better place. The meta right now is decent IMO. Not great and still needs work, but decent.
Why, so more people can play braindead aggro decks and torture others more comfortably?
Its amazing how players always complain about decks like pirate warrior and quest rogue. And then try to throw away pretty much the only way to answer them.
how is this healthy? it is just a lot of midrange and aggro decks... no control no combo
There is a difference between what you feel are the main decks in the meta and what statistics show. Just in tier 1, you have Miracle Rogue (Combo) and Taunt Warrior (Control). Then, in tier 2, you have Freeze & Control Mage, N'Zoth Paladin and Control Priest. Yes, the meta is a little bit fast, but that is normal considering it has not stabilized yet.
As long as Face Warrior is dominating, no, it's not healthy meta.
Someone on the first page said that aggro < combo < control < aggro but in reality it looks like that: aggro > everything else - the only option to beat aggro is even faster aggro deck. Or special anti-aggro deck that loses to everything else.
Errr, No?
Im doing pretty fine with my midrangey/control Shaman and Pally against PW.
Its much harder against Tauntwarrior ,they are no special anti agggro version ,ok occasionally you lose to decks that counter you like rouges but it's far from "everything else".
how is this healthy? it is just a lot of midrange and aggro decks... no control no combo
There is a difference between what you feel are the main decks in the meta and what statistics show. Just in tier 1, you have Miracle Rogue (Combo) and Taunt Warrior (Control). Then, in tier 2, you have Freeze & Control Mage, N'Zoth Paladin and Control Priest. Yes, the meta is a little bit fast, but that is normal considering it has not stabilized yet.
taunt warrior is not control just a late midrange deck full of taunts... "combo" rogue is hardly a real combo deck... but yes it has the keyword combo in it... combo is more like you set you deck around doing some insane shet in one or two turns... this type of rogue just plays two random cards a turn or 4 random cards... no real though just doing ramdom shet... no real combo deck plays like that
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Just put an Eater in your deck and those smug mages will be free wins. I am REALLY enjoying beating mages these days. They're slow enough you have a good chance of drawing your eater, and so when you get to the inevitable state where you have lethal on the board but they have a secret and start fireballing your face, you eat their ice block and win.
I really like the current meta. I was really tired of Reno and jade/pirate getups. but not because they were so powerful--they were just monotonous after a while. I think OP is making this point. There is some variety available now. I think you could even make the case that aggro Paladin is the strongest aggro deck and who saw that coming? Not me. And the Paladin quest is most definitely not overpowered. I play murloc Paladin and I eat quest rogues consistently.
I think the magic, though, is that the meta is new. It will become stale again and people will groan about it. I do find it hopeful that Blizzard has indicated they will release four expansions [edited] this year. (If I read that right.) That should keep things moving.
In my opinion, this is one of the best metas in Hearthstone's history and is at least a massive step up from the Karazhan and MSoG metas. I'm not certain if it is the best meta (i.e. I really liked the early WotOG meta), but I'm certainly enjoying myself.
Is it a healthy meta? Well...that comes down to your definition of "healthy." For me, I think a healthy meta is one where:
By that definition, the current meta is...close? Close I guess. I don't think it's perfect but it's in a pretty good place that can hopefully be improved upon in the next expansion. But if you have a different definition for healthy meta then you obviously may feel differently.
how is this healthy? it is just a lot of midrange and aggro decks... no control no combo
I started playing right before MSoG dropped as F2P, and it was terrible. Almost overnight, all you saw were Pirate and Jade decks. I decided to pre-order Ungoro to give the state of the game a chance to improve, and I can say I'm glad I did. You see all kinds of decks on the ladder. I also like that you see fewer Tier 1 decks grinding the bottom ranks.
But if it had not improved, I would have given up and found another CCG.
From Rank 19 to Rank 4 i've seen 2 Pirate Warriors, just an interesting statistic.
At the moment more than 20 decks are relevant in the meta ( T1+ T2) if this is not a healthy meta i'm not sure what you expect, really, having 200 viable decks?
Healthy meta?ahahahahahaha nice joke mate,oh wait you are serious let me laugh harder then AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though,the meta is healthy in the dumpster ranks only,in high-legend ranks the meta is still cancer and non diverse.There is rogue and there is warrior along with the recent rise of paladin.If you see a deck of any other class then it will be a hyper smorc one.If you think the meta is healthy you have never played the vanilla hearthstone.This meta is vastly improved in comparisson to msog meta but is still shity.The only healthy non vanilla meta have been the wotog meta.
Funny , I found the opposite happening to me , in the grinding phase between rank 5 and Legend there were alot of PirateWarriors and Questrouge (probably to climb fast) . After I hit Legend there was much more diversity and I'd say only 10% of the games are against those. Good meta so far!
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
Healthiest meta was Whispers (if you look away from the Yogg decks which were the worst thing I've seen in HS)