how is this healthy? it is just a lot of midrange and aggro decks... no control no combo
There is a difference between what you feel are the main decks in the meta and what statistics show. Just in tier 1, you have Miracle Rogue (Combo) and Taunt Warrior (Control). Then, in tier 2, you have Freeze & Control Mage, N'Zoth Paladin and Control Priest. Yes, the meta is a little bit fast, but that is normal considering it has not stabilized yet.
taunt warrior is not control just a late midrange deck full of taunts... "combo" rogue is hardly a real combo deck... but yes it has the keyword combo in it... combo is more like you set you deck around doing some insane shet in one or two turns... this type of rogue just plays two random cards a turn or 4 random cards... no real though just doing ramdom shet... no real combo deck plays like that
Right, because Brawl, shield slam, execute are not control tools. Kappa. Big expensive minions does not = control.
healthy my balls. all i see are aggro paladins everywhere. thanks, pro who let all the netdeckers into your plans.
Aggro is part of the game...just like control, tempo, midrange etc. Get used to aggro decks or play something else.
dude, shut the ***** up. just because something is, 'a part of something else,' doesn't make it right, fun to play against or gratifying in any sense of the word. stop being a mouth-breathing pirate warrior.
I don't think it's that healthy, there's still way too much aggro.
It's not that other archetypes aren't viable, it's that the structure of the ladder rewards spamming games, and aggro decks win or lose in a shorter time. No possible meta out there will alter this bias unless it were simply impossible to make an aggro deck that worked (and I'd argue that would be an unhealthy meta in its own right.)
Slower, more consistent, usually more skill-intensive decks can probably be pretty viable too, but because the games are longer you need to keep a much higher win rate up to make them worth it. These will never be the most common on ladder but for someone willing to invest time to learn them they might be really effective. I think choosing one of those decks is an option for someone who doesn't want to play the aggro game (but be ready to need to get really good at shutting other people's aggro down.)
healthy my balls. all i see are aggro paladins everywhere. thanks, pro who let all the netdeckers into your plans.
Aggro is part of the game...just like control, tempo, midrange etc. Get used to aggro decks or play something else.
Try not playing brainless Pirate Warrior for a couple of days and let us know how you feel after doing so.
Actually, I haven't played pirate warrior all week...I've been playing egg druid and quest rogue instead. I feel great now...I ranked from 19 to 9 with aggro egg druid. The games are fast too. Lots of concedes. :)
Slower, more consistent, usually more skill-intensive decks can probably be pretty viable too, but because the games are longer you need to keep a much higher win rate up to make it worth it. These will never be the most common on ladder but for someone willing to invest time to learn them they might be really effective. I think choosing one of those decks is an option for someone whoodoesn't want to play the aggro game (but be ready to need to get really good at shutting other people's aggro down.)
I have no experience at the top of the ladder but I play at ranks 20-15 and I see a lot of different decks, a variety of control decks in particular. You could argue that's why they/we are at that rank, but I find those games very fun and satisfying whether I win them or not.
Casual seems far more instructive and frankly it's just a lot more fun. I have difficulty understanding why people spend hours and hours grinding ranks against decks they absolutely hate, absolutely not having much fun, when whey could have much more interesting games in casual. Then again, I'm not a trophy collector.
At ranks 5-1 i was usually facing most interactive mages and rogues decks - so it definately doesnt apply for those ranks atleast in my opinion because fuck all random bullshit mage and rogue provide. On the other hand below those ranks and on casual
On the other hand below those ranks and on casual playgame there is a large diveristy of decks and people are trying a lot of fun stuff which is not frustrating to play against. Good for them. Fuck all the trihards with their broken decks.
Casual seems far more instructive and frankly it's just a lot more fun. I have difficulty understanding why people spend hours and hours grinding ranks against decks they absolutely hate, absolutely not having much fun, when whey could have much more interesting games in casual. Then again, I'm not a trophy collector.
In my case at least, it comes down to the challenge of playing against the very strongest decks, run by people who are really motivated to win and have a ton of practice with them.
I find it fun to rank up on the ladder. Getting to Legend felt a bit like climbing a mountain, not something worth doing every month, but worth doing, and I feel like I learned a lot about the game getting there. I do feel that it's more of a test of persistence than a test of skill, particularly if one's borrowing a strong deck (as almost everyone does,) but it does require making a conscious effort to patch up holes in one's play, monitor how things are going, and fix problems as they come up.
Having an awesome time now, though, building crazy decks and trying them out in casual mode. I'm horrible at deck building. :)
Healthy my ass, it's either play aggro or die. I managed to bring control pally to rank 5 and then i stopped, couldnt be bother to keep facing rogue quest, pirate warrior,hunters and murloc paladin all the time (and aggro druid and the fun and interactive exodia mage). I'm playing quest priest in casual an the only fun i get is when i face taunt warrior or another priest that isn't silence OTK.
#1 is Vanilla. Vanilla is obviously VERY good that is why people liked the game in the first place. You can even play fairly mediocre Tempo decks like: Rogue, Warrior, Mage tempo (at the time) if you played well you would have a good win rate. Lot of experimentation the net decking hadn't really taken off. Most feelsbadman deck was prolly Freeze Mage or Miracle Rogue and those were at least a difficult deck to play. Face Hunter was a bit obnoxious at times but it rarely closed out a game before turn 8-ten, post Buzzard nerf forget about it.
#2 is Old Gods-Karazhan. First rotation is going to be interesting of course. There we 4 types of Warrior. lol. 3 types of Shaman. Aggro Shaman was obviously obvious, Midrange was the Totem version which wasn't that obnoxious (compared to the top cancer decks ever) especially after Tuskarr nerf. Paladin had 2. Druid had a couple. It got a worse after people realized Yogg was OP, but that didn't really happen until after Karazhan. The Karazhan portion of the Old Gods meta was a lot worse than the Old Gods meta but still pretty alright. Almost no feelsbadman decks Aggro Shaman could win a little too fast, Freeze Mage still exists, worst offender was prolly Yogg.
#3 is Un' Goro. Hopefully this means all rotation periods are going to be fun. The Hall of Fame being added definitely helped spice things up (I think the whole classic set should rotate out personally). Most the decks require some interesting piloting and there is a ton of variety on Ladder (usually). Control options are maybe a bit lacking but Unicorn Purifier Priest is a top tier deck so how can you complain right? lol. Quest Rogue obviously can feel pretty bad, Face Warrior still exists but it is countered a lot easier now, and Mage can feel a bit oppressive when they get that 3rd or 4th Ice Block. lol Those aren't too bad as far as feels bad decks go.
#4 is Legue of Explorers. League is the only adventure that I would consider it's on meta. Elise, and Reno really had a huge influence on how decks were built. They both made for really cool new control archetypes. Discover was introduced. A lot of good stuff in this expansion to try out and do cool things with. This was during the reign of Secret Paladin and introduced Aggro Shaman. Aggro Shaman actually felt pretty mediocre until the rotation. I don't think Secret Paladin is that bad. It was mostly just EVERYWHERE. Solving the Mystery Challenger turn was at least an interesting puzzle and doing it correctly could lead to wins (if they didn't then drop Dr. 7 into Dr. 8)
#5 is Naxx - GvG - Blackrock. I would lump these three together. They mostly just added new cards to existing archetypes. This is counting post Deathrattle Hunter which, of course, was one of the worst metas but got nerfed relatively quickly from what I remember. These expansions started to really narrow what you could in HS instead of expanding it. There was Mech Mage...but not much else that got added. Midrange Druid really started to reign. Face Hunter was getting obnoxiously strong again. I actually think, what was considered one of the most cancer decks, Patron Warrior, was a healthy deck because of the VERY high skill cap. I think the difference in win rate was 40% to 70+% which is nuts, I really like the idea of having a deck that rewards skill that hard.
#6 is The Grand Tournament. This was just a super non impactful full expansion. It added Oil Rogue which I thought was a very fun deck and Secret Pally which is pretty much universally hated. Not great.
#7 is Gadgetzan. Pretty easy to place dead last. Even a decent amount of the streamers started to turn to other games or arena more often. Lifecoach straight quit Pro Hearthstone. The concept of turning the 9 classes into 3 archetypes was flawed from the start. Adding to that how oppressive and universal the Pirate Package become and you have a recipe for absolute disaster. Aggro became a turn 4-5 killer. Often. Forcing Control into running Reno or bust, unless your warrior. Warrior control of course was killed of by another deck Jade Druid which lost to the turn 4-5 killing aggro decks. Any attempt to make a deck outside cycle tended to fail. This is also why people worry about Aggro being too powerful. When an aggro deck is at the top of the meta it really limits what other decks can be played. If you have a control deck at the top, there are a lot of ways to beat a control deck, so it opens up what is possible.
how is this healthy? it is just a lot of midrange and aggro decks... no control no combo
There is a difference between what you feel are the main decks in the meta and what statistics show. Just in tier 1, you have Miracle Rogue (Combo) and Taunt Warrior (Control). Then, in tier 2, you have Freeze & Control Mage, N'Zoth Paladin and Control Priest. Yes, the meta is a little bit fast, but that is normal considering it has not stabilized yet.
taunt warrior is not control just a late midrange deck full of taunts... "combo" rogue is hardly a real combo deck... but yes it has the keyword combo in it... combo is more like you set you deck around doing some insane shet in one or two turns... this type of rogue just plays two random cards a turn or 4 random cards... no real though just doing ramdom shet... no real combo deck plays like that
Yeah it's only a combo when you do it, snowflake.
Jesus this forum is full of fucking idiots.
I am talking about real combos not just playing two or three cards on the same turn with mild synergy... fx what is wrong with quest rogue and what makes it "not a combo, combo deck" is that it just plays two cards with mild synergy a turn maybe three if you have a great hand pirate bounce pirate bounce then wait a turn, or turns till you can finish it... the "combo" is to easy to complete and the reward has no counters... combo rogue is in no way a combo in my mind... quest paladin is just as much if not more a combo deck or atleast a better designed combo deck than rogues.. rogues is just simply overpowered and requires no finesse... real combo decks sacrifices a lot in order to have its overpowered combos these new types of "combos" don't
Disagree. Pre-nerf aggro shaman and pre-nerf Yogg-Saron. More infuriating than any Quest Rogue or Pirate Warrior. Priest didn't exist. Things are better now.
@Gucciboy23: If combo is your favorite style of play, then Hearthstone is not the best game for you. Whenever an uninteractive deck starts to dominate and the player base can't find a consistent way to counter it (as they have with Exodia), Blizzard will actively nerf it.
If you want a meta dominated by flashy combos and uninteractive play, Shadowverse is your best bet. It's a very solid, robust game, but I don't enjoy it at all because of it's combo-oriented meta. Sounds like you might.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Zalae had mentioned this on stream and I agree: The three day meta was the best. It was the three days before Standard and Wild went live but after Combo Druid, BGH and Aggro got herfed. For those three days you could not have to worry about getting stomped by Force of Nature + Savage Roar, and you could still use Naxx, GvG, BRM & TGT all in the same meta.
Dear Sir,
You are a troll! EoM
It definetly is the healthiest, but not the funniest.
And the netdeckshit is worse than ever before. But as long as they are crap 90% of the time and may only with with insane luck
At ranks 5-1 i was usually facing most interactive mages and rogues decks - so it definately doesnt apply for those ranks atleast in my opinion because fuck all random bullshit mage and rogue provide. On the other hand below those ranks and on casual
On the other hand below those ranks and on casual playgame there is a large diveristy of decks and people are trying a lot of fun stuff which is not frustrating to play against. Good for them. Fuck all the trihards with their broken decks.
Healthiest expansion? Goblins vs Gnomes !
Healthy my ass, it's either play aggro or die. I managed to bring control pally to rank 5 and then i stopped, couldnt be bother to keep facing rogue quest, pirate warrior,hunters and murloc paladin all the time (and aggro druid and the fun and interactive exodia mage). I'm playing quest priest in casual an the only fun i get is when i face taunt warrior or another priest that isn't silence OTK.
It could be fun to rate the metas.
#1 is Vanilla. Vanilla is obviously VERY good that is why people liked the game in the first place. You can even play fairly mediocre Tempo decks like: Rogue, Warrior, Mage tempo (at the time) if you played well you would have a good win rate. Lot of experimentation the net decking hadn't really taken off. Most feelsbadman deck was prolly Freeze Mage or Miracle Rogue and those were at least a difficult deck to play. Face Hunter was a bit obnoxious at times but it rarely closed out a game before turn 8-ten, post Buzzard nerf forget about it.
#2 is Old Gods-Karazhan. First rotation is going to be interesting of course. There we 4 types of Warrior. lol. 3 types of Shaman. Aggro Shaman was obviously obvious, Midrange was the Totem version which wasn't that obnoxious (compared to the top cancer decks ever) especially after Tuskarr nerf. Paladin had 2. Druid had a couple. It got a worse after people realized Yogg was OP, but that didn't really happen until after Karazhan. The Karazhan portion of the Old Gods meta was a lot worse than the Old Gods meta but still pretty alright. Almost no feelsbadman decks Aggro Shaman could win a little too fast, Freeze Mage still exists, worst offender was prolly Yogg.
#3 is Un' Goro. Hopefully this means all rotation periods are going to be fun. The Hall of Fame being added definitely helped spice things up (I think the whole classic set should rotate out personally). Most the decks require some interesting piloting and there is a ton of variety on Ladder (usually). Control options are maybe a bit lacking but Unicorn Purifier Priest is a top tier deck so how can you complain right? lol. Quest Rogue obviously can feel pretty bad, Face Warrior still exists but it is countered a lot easier now, and Mage can feel a bit oppressive when they get that 3rd or 4th Ice Block. lol Those aren't too bad as far as feels bad decks go.
#4 is Legue of Explorers. League is the only adventure that I would consider it's on meta. Elise, and Reno really had a huge influence on how decks were built. They both made for really cool new control archetypes. Discover was introduced. A lot of good stuff in this expansion to try out and do cool things with. This was during the reign of Secret Paladin and introduced Aggro Shaman. Aggro Shaman actually felt pretty mediocre until the rotation. I don't think Secret Paladin is that bad. It was mostly just EVERYWHERE. Solving the Mystery Challenger turn was at least an interesting puzzle and doing it correctly could lead to wins (if they didn't then drop Dr. 7 into Dr. 8)
#5 is Naxx - GvG - Blackrock. I would lump these three together. They mostly just added new cards to existing archetypes. This is counting post Deathrattle Hunter which, of course, was one of the worst metas but got nerfed relatively quickly from what I remember. These expansions started to really narrow what you could in HS instead of expanding it. There was Mech Mage...but not much else that got added. Midrange Druid really started to reign. Face Hunter was getting obnoxiously strong again. I actually think, what was considered one of the most cancer decks, Patron Warrior, was a healthy deck because of the VERY high skill cap. I think the difference in win rate was 40% to 70+% which is nuts, I really like the idea of having a deck that rewards skill that hard.
#6 is The Grand Tournament. This was just a super non impactful full expansion. It added Oil Rogue which I thought was a very fun deck and Secret Pally which is pretty much universally hated. Not great.
#7 is Gadgetzan. Pretty easy to place dead last. Even a decent amount of the streamers started to turn to other games or arena more often. Lifecoach straight quit Pro Hearthstone. The concept of turning the 9 classes into 3 archetypes was flawed from the start. Adding to that how oppressive and universal the Pirate Package become and you have a recipe for absolute disaster. Aggro became a turn 4-5 killer. Often. Forcing Control into running Reno or bust, unless your warrior. Warrior control of course was killed of by another deck Jade Druid which lost to the turn 4-5 killing aggro decks. Any attempt to make a deck outside cycle tended to fail. This is also why people worry about Aggro being too powerful. When an aggro deck is at the top of the meta it really limits what other decks can be played. If you have a control deck at the top, there are a lot of ways to beat a control deck, so it opens up what is possible.
Achieved Gold Priest- April 2017
@Gucciboy23: If combo is your favorite style of play, then Hearthstone is not the best game for you. Whenever an uninteractive deck starts to dominate and the player base can't find a consistent way to counter it (as they have with Exodia), Blizzard will actively nerf it.
If you want a meta dominated by flashy combos and uninteractive play, Shadowverse is your best bet. It's a very solid, robust game, but I don't enjoy it at all because of it's combo-oriented meta. Sounds like you might.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Exodia Mage seems to fit what your talking about, have you tried that deck?
Zalae had mentioned this on stream and I agree: The three day meta was the best. It was the three days before Standard and Wild went live but after Combo Druid, BGH and Aggro got herfed. For those three days you could not have to worry about getting stomped by Force of Nature + Savage Roar, and you could still use Naxx, GvG, BRM & TGT all in the same meta.
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─