I see people complaining about the current state of rogue, and Valeera has for sure received some meme cards, but I do think that Rogue may be the best class to play Jade.. Even though rogue has received only two class cards related to the mechanic, I think it has more potential to be broken, as stated by Blizzard..
People are going crazy about Jade Idol but I am not convinced it is broken as people say.. Less than what, 10% of games go into fatigue.. Even if you are playing a fatigue deck, most part of the time the game ends because you or your opponent die, not because you fatigued..
Rogue has far superior means to control the board and to draw than druids and shamans, and even though the released cards are not good tempo cards, rogue is a tempo class by nature.. Even shadowsteping theJade Spirit is better than playing another jade card, as you can summon another stronger golem for 2 mana.. that's a huge tempo play, as you can do other things on the turn and summon a stronger card..
And you can cycle your deck faster than any other class, and that's what really matters.. if you putting huge jade golems faster than your opponent, you win.. simple as that.. you will never have a bad draw because of Jade Idol.. you just cycle your deck faster, summon your jade golems faster and that's game..
The difference is that druid and shaman have AOE and heals, allowing them to live longer to play more Jade Golems. True, rogue has some cool synergies but I can't help wondering if you can actually live long enough to get big golems.
jade idol is not about fatique immunity.. this is just an added bonus.. it is about 1 mana 5/5+ being super broken... jade idol in itself is enough late game for your entire deck.. making your other cards in the deck able to be about draw / removal / healing other control decks will require quit a few high prices legendaries who can sit in your hand and be useless till turn 8+ like alex and rag jade idol will forever just be a 1 mana card that is playable anytime anywhere and even has great syngergy with draw mechanices like auctioneer... the fact that their late game is also early game and mid game with being only 1 card is something extreamly overpowered.. no other card is both early mid and lategame while also having great syngergy with draw effects
Shamans for sure have AoE, weapons and tempo plays, but druid is far worse than rogue on controlling the board.. thay lack AoE and good single target removal, an have no weapons nor huge swing cards.. they do draw ok, but when it comes to draw, rogue is king, and I think this may make a difference.. but well, we shall see how things end up happening in the next weeks..
Another key issue here is that the Jade Druid cards (and Jade Idol specifically) are so cheap, but snowball so exponentially, and a lot quicker than people really expected. Sure, early in the game, the little golems mean nothing, but even by the time 5/5s and 6/6s are coming out, you're generating much more value than the mana cost would suggest. Which forces your opponent to either end the game quickly (which a lot of decks physically can't do), or just deal with the fact that the match is going to be about constantly swatting at cheap tokens that gain more power but don't increase in cost. As already pointed out, Druid and Shaman have access to healing, better boar clears, and generally already more study minions. Rogues can be as tricksy as they want, but there's only so many times you can Vanish a board while still being able to generate your own tempo.
I'm still waiting to see how it actually plays out in the meta, but I'm not very confident. The stream kinda illustrated that out of all of the new mechanics, Jade Golem is easily the most brainless with the best power creep reward. Even the Grimy Goons match showed how sometimes it was better to save minions in hand, etc. JG just encourages non-stop high value board presence, with very little thought. It goes from being "just play on curve" to "it doesn't matter what I play, I'm gonna get an 8/8 on the board regardless".
Yep, I'm hype to get my last few wins to 500 with Jade Rogue. My only problem with building it is trying to fit all the cards in one deck, it looks like I'm gonna be cutting my Azure Drake for Lotus Agents, removing a copy of Sap for Aya Blackpaw, cutting SI:7 Agent for Jade Shuriken and removing Tomb Pillager for Journey Below for flexibility, and putting X'aril instead for the extra card draw, bounce, or stealth while keeping the Gadgetzan draw engine
The problem with Jade Idol isn't that it eliminates Fatigue as a mechanic if you have it in your deck. It's more that it can summon a Jade Golem for 1 Mana. The card has benign intentions; it's meant to help Druid ramp up its Golems by spawning some in the early game for a balanced cost. As the game goes on, of course, other cards like Jade Blossom and Jade Spirit generate Golems and make Jade Idol increasingly better. Assuming you stay alive, you'll get to the point where you're summoning 7/7s and 8/8s for ONE MANA. That's obviously broken.
Druid has enough healing to make it the best Golem deck; cards like Feral Rage will be crucial. Its removal is weak, true, but Spell Damage + Swipe is enough to deal with a lot of Aggro boards (which will be trying to target all Golem decks). Besides summoning Golems, Druid can still ramp into mid/late game threats quickly and can even buff minions with, say, Mark of the Wild if it really wants to control the board.
With all that said, I don't think Rogue will be that bad of a Golem deck. Against Aggro, yes, it'll struggle more than Shaman or Druid and will probably lose before it can generate big Golems. But against Midrange, even more aggressive Midrange, I think it has enough removal and combos to give it a chance to win. I base this off the success Rogue (some Miracle variant, of course) can have against Midrange decks now; Golems will only help by providing better board presence.
I think that Druid will be the best Jade deck, if you tech it against Aggro the only deck i can think of that would be able to consistently beat it would be ZooLock... :/
I think Jade Rogue is going to be the best Jade deck as well. I finished top 100 NA before Karazhan came out with Deathrattle Rogue, but then Shaman getting new stuff kind of pushed them over the edge and my deck stopped having a good Shaman matchup. These new Jade cards seem literally tailor made for the type of Deathrattle/Shadowcaster deck I was playing. I feel like they were designed specifically for me, that's how perfect they are lol. Everyone keeps talking about Shadowstep but I'd like to point out that Shadowcaster can copy spirit or the stealthed Swarmer, and Shadowcaster is actually a fantastic card when you build your deck with it in mind. I think the impression people got from the demo today was that Jade Golem decks will be slow, but I think that Rogue Jade Golem will actually be pretty fast, not quite aggro but a faster midrange deck. The fact that Jade cards get better as the game goes on will help you top deck your way to a win in a lot of matchups. You will also crush the druid players with no big board clears and a slower game plan.
I think Jade Rogue has to forget the 10+/10+ golem dream and just play faster, i.e. use the Miracle shell. There is no way you're ever going to win when the game goes that long, especially against a Jade Druid, or any fast Goon deck. Jade Rogue will need to play in between those paces.
The golems in the Jade Rogue will be around 6/6 - 8/8 that's the reality. I really don't think Rogue will have the time for the Brann into Jade Spirit/Aya dream like what was shown on stream. If you take too long you'll be struggling against Druid's 1 mana 8/8s (an growing) an unable to clear while you're waiting for your deathrattles to go off; or you'll be beaten down by the buffed up Goon spam. Rogue has no choice but to be fast.
I don't think Rogue has a big enough quantity of Jade cards to make such a deck successful.
No need for them actually. With shurikens, swarmers and raptors you can get up to 6/6 golems. It would be a fast deck with Aya as the most expensive card.
And on top of that, there is a possibility of playing a N'Zoth for another win condition, and this can't be brawled of equality+consecrated without leaving on average two huge golems..
Just remove threats and put your fellas on board. But probably SI:7 needs a spot somewhere too. Journey below's there to discover another swarmer, but what are the chances, eh. I'll just put SI:7, it's better.
It'll be interesting to see if Jade Golem is th new N'zoth/Unearthed Raptor deck of the format, just living long enough to execute your game plan is always the problem with Rogue regardless of the value you can realize. I like Shaman's chances better just because you're playing the tempo game of addressing the opponent's board while developing your own, but Midrange Shaman is already so damn broken nobody is really going to bother with anything else until rotation.
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I see people complaining about the current state of rogue, and Valeera has for sure received some meme cards, but I do think that Rogue may be the best class to play Jade.. Even though rogue has received only two class cards related to the mechanic, I think it has more potential to be broken, as stated by Blizzard..
People are going crazy about Jade Idol but I am not convinced it is broken as people say.. Less than what, 10% of games go into fatigue.. Even if you are playing a fatigue deck, most part of the time the game ends because you or your opponent die, not because you fatigued..
Rogue has far superior means to control the board and to draw than druids and shamans, and even though the released cards are not good tempo cards, rogue is a tempo class by nature.. Even shadowsteping theJade Spirit is better than playing another jade card, as you can summon another stronger golem for 2 mana.. that's a huge tempo play, as you can do other things on the turn and summon a stronger card..
And you can cycle your deck faster than any other class, and that's what really matters.. if you putting huge jade golems faster than your opponent, you win.. simple as that.. you will never have a bad draw because of Jade Idol.. you just cycle your deck faster, summon your jade golems faster and that's game..
Yeah, a toast!
The difference is that druid and shaman have AOE and heals, allowing them to live longer to play more Jade Golems. True, rogue has some cool synergies but I can't help wondering if you can actually live long enough to get big golems.
jade idol is not about fatique immunity.. this is just an added bonus.. it is about 1 mana 5/5+ being super broken... jade idol in itself is enough late game for your entire deck.. making your other cards in the deck able to be about draw / removal / healing other control decks will require quit a few high prices legendaries who can sit in your hand and be useless till turn 8+ like alex and rag jade idol will forever just be a 1 mana card that is playable anytime anywhere and even has great syngergy with draw mechanices like auctioneer... the fact that their late game is also early game and mid game with being only 1 card is something extreamly overpowered.. no other card is both early mid and lategame while also having great syngergy with draw effects
Shamans for sure have AoE, weapons and tempo plays, but druid is far worse than rogue on controlling the board.. thay lack AoE and good single target removal, an have no weapons nor huge swing cards.. they do draw ok, but when it comes to draw, rogue is king, and I think this may make a difference.. but well, we shall see how things end up happening in the next weeks..
Yeah, a toast!
Seems ok.
Another key issue here is that the Jade Druid cards (and Jade Idol specifically) are so cheap, but snowball so exponentially, and a lot quicker than people really expected. Sure, early in the game, the little golems mean nothing, but even by the time 5/5s and 6/6s are coming out, you're generating much more value than the mana cost would suggest. Which forces your opponent to either end the game quickly (which a lot of decks physically can't do), or just deal with the fact that the match is going to be about constantly swatting at cheap tokens that gain more power but don't increase in cost. As already pointed out, Druid and Shaman have access to healing, better boar clears, and generally already more study minions. Rogues can be as tricksy as they want, but there's only so many times you can Vanish a board while still being able to generate your own tempo.
I'm still waiting to see how it actually plays out in the meta, but I'm not very confident. The stream kinda illustrated that out of all of the new mechanics, Jade Golem is easily the most brainless with the best power creep reward. Even the Grimy Goons match showed how sometimes it was better to save minions in hand, etc. JG just encourages non-stop high value board presence, with very little thought. It goes from being "just play on curve" to "it doesn't matter what I play, I'm gonna get an 8/8 on the board regardless".
/2c
Yep, I'm hype to get my last few wins to 500 with Jade Rogue. My only problem with building it is trying to fit all the cards in one deck, it looks like I'm gonna be cutting my Azure Drake for Lotus Agents, removing a copy of Sap for Aya Blackpaw, cutting SI:7 Agent for Jade Shuriken and removing Tomb Pillager for Journey Below for flexibility, and putting X'aril instead for the extra card draw, bounce, or stealth while keeping the Gadgetzan draw engine
The problem with Jade Idol isn't that it eliminates Fatigue as a mechanic if you have it in your deck. It's more that it can summon a Jade Golem for 1 Mana. The card has benign intentions; it's meant to help Druid ramp up its Golems by spawning some in the early game for a balanced cost. As the game goes on, of course, other cards like Jade Blossom and Jade Spirit generate Golems and make Jade Idol increasingly better. Assuming you stay alive, you'll get to the point where you're summoning 7/7s and 8/8s for ONE MANA. That's obviously broken.
Druid has enough healing to make it the best Golem deck; cards like Feral Rage will be crucial. Its removal is weak, true, but Spell Damage + Swipe is enough to deal with a lot of Aggro boards (which will be trying to target all Golem decks). Besides summoning Golems, Druid can still ramp into mid/late game threats quickly and can even buff minions with, say, Mark of the Wild if it really wants to control the board.
With all that said, I don't think Rogue will be that bad of a Golem deck. Against Aggro, yes, it'll struggle more than Shaman or Druid and will probably lose before it can generate big Golems. But against Midrange, even more aggressive Midrange, I think it has enough removal and combos to give it a chance to win. I base this off the success Rogue (some Miracle variant, of course) can have against Midrange decks now; Golems will only help by providing better board presence.
I really like Lotus Agents. This card can give you the heal or AoE that Rogue lack.
You can also get Jade Idol from the lotus agent.
Everything that isn't about elephants is irrelephant.
I think that Druid will be the best Jade deck, if you tech it against Aggro the only deck i can think of that would be able to consistently beat it would be ZooLock... :/
I think Jade Rogue is going to be the best Jade deck as well. I finished top 100 NA before Karazhan came out with Deathrattle Rogue, but then Shaman getting new stuff kind of pushed them over the edge and my deck stopped having a good Shaman matchup. These new Jade cards seem literally tailor made for the type of Deathrattle/Shadowcaster deck I was playing. I feel like they were designed specifically for me, that's how perfect they are lol. Everyone keeps talking about Shadowstep but I'd like to point out that Shadowcaster can copy spirit or the stealthed Swarmer, and Shadowcaster is actually a fantastic card when you build your deck with it in mind. I think the impression people got from the demo today was that Jade Golem decks will be slow, but I think that Rogue Jade Golem will actually be pretty fast, not quite aggro but a faster midrange deck. The fact that Jade cards get better as the game goes on will help you top deck your way to a win in a lot of matchups. You will also crush the druid players with no big board clears and a slower game plan.
I think Jade Rogue has to forget the 10+/10+ golem dream and just play faster, i.e. use the Miracle shell. There is no way you're ever going to win when the game goes that long, especially against a Jade Druid, or any fast Goon deck. Jade Rogue will need to play in between those paces.
The golems in the Jade Rogue will be around 6/6 - 8/8 that's the reality. I really don't think Rogue will have the time for the Brann into Jade Spirit/Aya dream like what was shown on stream. If you take too long you'll be struggling against Druid's 1 mana 8/8s (an growing) an unable to clear while you're waiting for your deathrattles to go off; or you'll be beaten down by the buffed up Goon spam. Rogue has no choice but to be fast.
As usual.
I don't think Rogue has a big enough quantity of Jade cards to make such a deck successful.
And on top of that, there is a possibility of playing a N'Zoth for another win condition, and this can't be brawled of equality+consecrated without leaving on average two huge golems..
Yeah, a toast!
Hmm, yeah Rogue doesn't have all that stuff that Druid and Shaman do, but it seems to me Rogue has the potential to snowball faster.
Best jade deck with least jade golem generation cards (2 compared to 3 for shaman and druid)
I don't know man, too many different cards. I'd keep it simple, something like this
Just remove threats and put your fellas on board. But probably SI:7 needs a spot somewhere too. Journey below's there to discover another swarmer, but what are the chances, eh. I'll just put SI:7, it's better.
It'll be interesting to see if Jade Golem is th new N'zoth/Unearthed Raptor deck of the format, just living long enough to execute your game plan is always the problem with Rogue regardless of the value you can realize. I like Shaman's chances better just because you're playing the tempo game of addressing the opponent's board while developing your own, but Midrange Shaman is already so damn broken nobody is really going to bother with anything else until rotation.