OK, at the end I don't think this card is that good. At first I thought it was a weaker Piloted Shredder, because its outcome could determine whether or not you will win or lose the game, but the more I looked at the card and the outcomes, the more I think it's not really that special. Why:
- you may pay 2 mana for 3 mana drops, but you don't get the minion immediately. You may get it on the next turn or in 5 turns from now, if the opponent doesn't decide to push for face soon after. So you kinda give up a turn, if you do this on turn 2 or 3. And if not, if you do it on turn 6+, then a random 3 drop isn't that impressive at that time, because it will be contested by much stronger minions on the opponent's side. You don't get the chance to snowball with a higher costed minion, you actually slow yourself. - and let's not forget, that you don't get a fully healed minion; because it will be targeted when summoned, you might end up getting a 3/1, a 2/1 or even a 1/1 drop or nothing. - the outcome - believe it or not, but I actually started linking the cards (making a small statistic) in this post, then accidentally clicked on the wrong "X" and closed this thread instead :X. So my efforts kinda end up being meaningless, BUT if you look at the 3 drops - most of them are some bad understated minions (mostly with a battlecry effect, but you don't get to profit from it either way), then the average either 3/3s or 3/2s and the very few fairly stated 3/4s Spider Tanks or overstated like the warlock 5/5 or the neutral 4/7.
If I have the motivation, I will fill in this post the list of the good, average and bad 3 drops to make my words clearer. Anyway list of 3 drops in wild and in standard.
Average results - 4 attack minions - 7 wild 6 Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - counting Eggnapper in here too 33wild = 14
What 3 cost minion? It doesn't have the word randon. Any info? Anyway, a 3 mana fo two, its very good on avarege, but I don't know if hunter wants it. The reveal season just started and already seems bad for hunter.
Since I got a notification, you were replying to me?
The egg was already on the list, if this was your question - it's marked as one of the rather good outcomes, because if a minion with 3 or more attack attacks the face, you get a 5/5 for free.
OK, at the end I don't think this card is that good. At first I thought it was a weaker Piloted Shredder, because its outcome could determine whether or not you will win or lose the game, but the more I looked at the card and the outcomes, the more I think it's not really that special. Why:
- you may pay 2 mana for 3 mana drops, but you don't get the minion immediately. You may get it on the next turn or in 5 turns from now, if the opponent doesn't decide to push for face soon after. So you kinda give up a turn, if you do this on turn 2 or 3. And if not, if you do it on turn 6+, then a random 3 drop isn't that impressive at that time, because it will be contested by much stronger minions on the opponent's side. You don't get the chance to snowball with a higher costed minion, you actually slow yourself. - and let's not forget, that you don't get a fully healed minion; because it will be targeted when summoned, you might end up getting a 3/1, a 2/1 or even a 1/1 drop or nothing. - the outcome - believe it or not, but I actually started linking the cards (making a small statistic) in this post, then accidentally clicked on the wrong "X" and closed this thread instead :X. So my efforts kinda end up being meaningless, BUT if you look at the 3 drops - most of them are some bad understated minions (mostly with a battlecry effect, but you don't get to profit from it either way), then the average either 3/3s or 3/2s and the very few fairly stated 3/4s Spider Tanks or overstated like the warlock 5/5 or the neutral 4/7.
If I have the motivation, I will fill in this post the list of the good, average and bad 3 drops to make my words clearer. Anyway list of 3 drops in wild and in standard.
Average results - 4 attack minions - 7 wild 6 Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - counting Eggnapper in here too 33wild = 14
Compared to GET DOWN!, many of the bad outcomes are rather good. Acolyte not only draws a card but also blocks an attack, Demolisher has a kind of decent chance of surviving, Argent Horserider is average, and anything with 5 attack is a good one. Both Vryghoul and Eggnapper are amazing. The 3/2s you counted at average are bad.
OK, at the end I don't think this card is that good. At first I thought it was a weaker Piloted Shredder, because its outcome could determine whether or not you will win or lose the game, but the more I looked at the card and the outcomes, the more I think it's not really that special. Why:
- you may pay 2 mana for 3 mana drops, but you don't get the minion immediately. You may get it on the next turn or in 5 turns from now, if the opponent doesn't decide to push for face soon after. So you kinda give up a turn, if you do this on turn 2 or 3. And if not, if you do it on turn 6+, then a random 3 drop isn't that impressive at that time, because it will be contested by much stronger minions on the opponent's side. You don't get the chance to snowball with a higher costed minion, you actually slow yourself. - and let's not forget, that you don't get a fully healed minion; because it will be targeted when summoned, you might end up getting a 3/1, a 2/1 or even a 1/1 drop or nothing. - the outcome - believe it or not, but I actually started linking the cards (making a small statistic) in this post, then accidentally clicked on the wrong "X" and closed this thread instead :X. So my efforts kinda end up being meaningless, BUT if you look at the 3 drops - most of them are some bad understated minions (mostly with a battlecry effect, but you don't get to profit from it either way), then the average either 3/3s or 3/2s and the very few fairly stated 3/4s Spider Tanks or overstated like the warlock 5/5 or the neutral 4/7.
If I have the motivation, I will fill in this post the list of the good, average and bad 3 drops to make my words clearer. Anyway list of 3 drops in wild and in standard.
Average results - 4 attack minions - 7 wild 6 Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - counting Eggnapper in here too 33wild = 14
acolyte: blocks 3 damage and might even draw you 2 cards if it's a 2 or less attack minion in hunter card draw is very strong, all the 1/4 and 1/5 minions are average, they might survive for another trade or even a bonemere, sergeant sally is good it deals 2 damage to the attacking minion (could be even 4 with dire wolf alfa placements in rare cases) and 1 dmg aoe to the opponent it's like explosive just blocking the first attack instead of doing face dmg.
razorleaf is good with bonemere, and maybe argus if you run it
ghoul might be good if it survives somehow (last attack in turn sometimes people do that)
magama rager and shadow rager are good (2 mana "vaporize")
Shalow gravedigger is also good, addinmg a random DR why not, you are hunter, you got the synergy.
Street trickster- again bonemere target or jsut kill command for more dmg, it got uses it also comboes with explosive trap if you run both.
silith swarmer is GREAT not just good, 3 attack and probably survives early game, to houndmaster??
valkyr is also very good it will probably survive if people check for freezing first.
all in all a lot of "bad minions" are situationally good (depending on attacking minion/attack order) being a beast with high HP (patriach), drawing a card while sponging dmg is good.
this card is bonkers, just that your opponent can play around it by not attacking face is the big problem... but against aggro this card is AMAZING it has so many good results early game and some are even good late.
will rate this card "very good" might even make secret hunter viable.
Not sure about this one. Value-wise it seems OK... ish. The average 3-drop is better than the Bear, not necessarily stat-wise but abilities. Interestingly especially the hunter 3-drops are quite good (Bearshark, Carrion Grub, Cloaked Huntress, Rat Pack, Shaky Zipgunner, all better then average, stat-wise).
But it's relatively easy to play around. You would normally anyway attack with the weakest minion (or weapon) first to test for Freezing, that won't change. So it's unlikely this is saving you a lot of health.
acolyte: blocks 3 damage and might even draw you 2 cards if it's a 2 or less attack minion in hunter card draw is very strong, all the 1/4 and 1/5 minions are average, they might survive for another trade or even a bonemere, sergeant sally is good it deals 2 damage to the attacking minion (could be even 4 with dire wolf alfa placements in rare cases) and 1 dmg aoe to the opponent it's like explosive just blocking the first attack instead of doing face dmg.
razorleaf is good with bonemere, and maybe argus if you run it
ghoul might be good if it survives somehow (last attack in turn sometimes people do that)
magama rager and shadow rager are good (2 mana "vaporize")
Shalow gravedigger is also good, addinmg a random DR why not, you are hunter, you got the synergy.
Street trickster- again bonemere target or jsut kill command for more dmg, it got uses it also comboes with explosive trap if you run both.
silith swarmer is GREAT not just good, 3 attack and probably survives early game, to houndmaster??
valkyr is also very good it will probably survive if people check for freezing first.
all in all a lot of "bad minions" are situationally good (depending on attacking minion/attack order) being a beast with high HP (patriach), drawing a card while sponging dmg is good.
this card is bonkers, just that your opponent can play around it by not attacking face is the big problem... but against aggro this card is AMAZING it has so many good results early game and some are even good late.
will rate this card "very good" might even make secret hunter viable.
I want to strongly disagree with this one. While on paper everything seems quite alright, just imagine, when you play this card in hunter vs everything but aggro and mid-range. Control and combo decks aren't something rate, these players don't develop a board that early, you won't get anything from this secret. Even if there is a minion on their board, since they play the defensive game, there won't be any need to push for face damage, as their win-condition will be stabilizing. Therefor they will only aim your minions. I for once, when I play against hunter with a lot of secrets, I never attack the face (playing around Explosive Trap), I don't cast any spells, unless I will cast an AoE after that (Cat Trick) and if I have a big minion on the board, then I attack the enemies ones with my weakest minions (Freezing Trap). So people will indirectly play around Wandering Monster, as they will think they play around Explosive Trap.
Why this card is bad in this deck - because you are the aggro player, you don't care about protecting your face. You care about snowballing with your board and then racing towards the enemy face. And I for once am willing to admit, that my list is not 100% objective, as firstly all comes from my opinion and secondly some minions, which are part of a single group, may in some cases change sides (e.g. Sergeant Sally vs token decks, Questing Adventurer if it survives and you have a lot of cheap things to play etc), but let's be real for a bit. How often will they really show up, when the environment is optimal for them. How often will the opponent not have an answer for Addled Grizzly. Let's give another example with the opposite argument - Devilsaur Egg if the opponent attacks with 1 or 2 attack minion, then you won't have the ability to trigger the deathrattle.
The things you mention are kinda in really optimistic conditions. Why do you think, that some of the things will survive for a Bonemare? Why do you think, that people will play their biggest minions first, which then will get killed by a Magma Rager, a poisonous minion etc. Why do you only look at the dream scenario, where everything turns out to be like you want????
razorleaf is good with bonemere, and maybe argus if you run it - In what world do you expect to get this scenario. While I don't disagree, that Bonemare is a thing, this minion doesn't threat anyone on its own. You will lose a small minion to it, but by the time you actually have Bonemare you either won, because you play a fast deck, or not, because on turn 2 you didn't develop anything on the board.....
Shalow gravedigger is also good, addinmg a random DR why not, you are hunter, you got the synergy. And exactly what synergy are we talking about? I thought we were discussing secret hunter, not N'Zoth hunter (with play dead and feign death).
Silithid Swarmer - The only card I'm willing to move to the kinda positive part, only because of Houndmaster synergy. Eaglehorn Bow is a very popular weapon in hunter, but it's not like the rogue's hero power, where the minion will always have its chance to attack.
All I'm saying is - it all depends on how things will turn out. Don't think, that the opponent will blindly attack with the strongest minions and then they will get punished by Vaporize aka a poisonous minion, a Magma Rager etc. People play around stuff, that's why this card is easily counterable.
all in all a lot of "bad minions" are situationally good (depending on attacking minion/attack order) being a beast with high HP (patriach), drawing a card while sponging dmg is good.
this card is bonkers, just that your opponent can play around it by not attacking face is the big problem... but against aggro this card is AMAZING it has so many good results early game and some are even good late.
will rate this card "very good" might even make secret hunter viable
Like I said above - of course the outcome may be considered bad or good, everything depends on the conditions it meets. In the list I very often explained some things - calling them bad or good if it survives or not. But this doesn't only regard the bad outcomes, but also the good ones. Flappy bird or Raging worgen - could die like that and will be part of the average 3/3 results. The egg may not get popped and the opponent will keep his minion. Magma rager may show up and kill an unsuspecting Raza. Everything could change in the different situation, but that's why I made the list like so to reflect the most probable scenario.
If I could pick a card against aggro, it would be explosive trap. Don't ask me why, I have some unexplainable reasons. I don't want to be mean, but I'm really pessimistic about this card, it's heavily RNG dependent, you can't control the outcome and thus it;s not flexible at all. Why would you play it competitively?
The last sentence. Don't make me laugh, boy, secret hunter needs to be as aggressive as it can. This doesn't contribute to that strategy, it's more of a value card, more of a highroll card. Imho secret hunter really needs cards like Medivh's Valet, Arcanologist and maybe Ethereal Arcanist in a beast version to gain aggressive stats. The class weapon suits that role pretty well, because you will push 3 extra damage the more secrets you activate. Point is - hunter needs more secret synergy and not more secrets themselves.
Compared to GET DOWN!, many of the bad outcomes are rather good. Acolyte not only draws a card but also blocks an attack, Demolisher has a kind of decent chance of surviving, Argent Horserider is average, and anything with 5 attack is a good one. Both Vryghoul and Eggnapper are amazing. The 3/2s you counted at average are bad.
Let me explain my thoughts:
I will begin with the last one. While yes, getting a 3/2 minion is kinda bad on its own, the reason why I put them in the average part was because a) i didn't want to make subsections on every category I make b) (and most importantly) I look at them with the end-result, that they will die. So having a 3/3 or a 3/2 won't make any difference, as they both will do 3 damage to the enemy minion. I understand, that you will ask: "OK, but why put 3/1 minions in the bad section, if they are going to die too. All this listing looks really paradoxical" to which I would say - you are maybe right, 2 attack minions is not rare at all, yesterday I just thought that the line between 3 and 2 health is not that big, but I may have to reconsider this.
Acolyte not only draws a card but also blocks an attack - I don't understand why people bring up the blocked face damage as an argument. Leute, you are playing an aggressive deck, you don't care about sparing some health. Get down is way more useful, because a) it's cheaper b) it triggers from an ordinary enemy attack, aka it saves you a minion. While the hunter secret has the potential to highroll, I don't think it's that impressive. About the Acolyte - only good against token decks. Even then hunter doesn't possess enough tools to stop a zerg-ing board (except with Unleash or explosive). The 3 health may be enough for him to survive, it may not - I won't put him in another category, just because it has a valuable effect in a draw dependent class.
Demolisher- yeah, it WILL most likely survive the first attack. The reason why I put it in the bad outcomes however was, that I was thinking, how it doesn't present that big of a threat. The effect may kill an opponent's minion, it may be the reason for the enemy to lose tempo, but I was primarily looking at the 1 Attack it has, because you may trade some minions in there, which will survive the trade.
Argent Horserider - fine. I was torn whether or not I should put him in the average section or not.
anything with 5 attack is a good one - it all depends on what minion will the enemy choose to attack. If it's Patches, then sayonara to the Magma rager.
Vryghoul and Eggnapper - come to thing of it, they may not be so bad after all. Especially with the beast synergy.
Get down! for Hunter--not bad, but not great, either. I can't see it justifying a deck slot unless you're specifically running a Huntress deck. It does bring back to Standard a secret that procs on the condition Bear Trap used to, which is useful when you're looking to create uncertainty in your opponent.
After the rotation, maybe? Still, at that point Huntress is gone, and even with that very powerful card Secret Hunter was never particularly competitive after the CotW nerf.
This is about as good as bear trap , and bear trap was not a good card !
As everyone said, Bear Trap gives you the bear AFTER you take the hit; this gives you a 3-cost minion to take the hit for you. It might kill the attacker, might stick on the board, but will certainly absorb some damage.
Hunter doesn't have many taunts, save the aforementioned bear which nobody plays and a beast buffed by Houndmaster. If a slower hunter deck is to become a thing, this is the kind of tool that would help.
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OK, at the end I don't think this card is that good. At first I thought it was a weaker Piloted Shredder, because its outcome could determine whether or not you will win or lose the game, but the more I looked at the card and the outcomes, the more I think it's not really that special. Why:
- you may pay 2 mana for 3 mana drops, but you don't get the minion immediately. You may get it on the next turn or in 5 turns from now, if the opponent doesn't decide to push for face soon after. So you kinda give up a turn, if you do this on turn 2 or 3. And if not, if you do it on turn 6+, then a random 3 drop isn't that impressive at that time, because it will be contested by much stronger minions on the opponent's side. You don't get the chance to snowball with a higher costed minion, you actually slow yourself.
- and let's not forget, that you don't get a fully healed minion; because it will be targeted when summoned, you might end up getting a 3/1, a 2/1 or even a 1/1 drop or nothing.
- the outcome - believe it or not, but I actually started linking the cards (making a small statistic) in this post, then accidentally clicked on the wrong "X" and closed this thread instead :X. So my efforts kinda end up being meaningless, BUT if you look at the 3 drops - most of them are some bad understated minions (mostly with a battlecry effect, but you don't get to profit from it either way), then the average either 3/3s or 3/2s and the very few fairly stated 3/4s Spider Tanks or overstated like the warlock 5/5 or the neutral 4/7.
If I have the motivation, I will fill in this post the list of the good, average and bad 3 drops to make my words clearer.
Anyway list of 3 drops in wild and in standard.
Good outcomes (good stated minions or some with a good effect) - Arcane Golem, Auctionmaster Beardo, Bearshark, Bloodsail Cultist, Carrion Grub, Cloaked Huntress, Coldwraith, Crypt Lord, Darkshire Councilman, Deadly Fork (meh), Devilsaur Egg, Drakkari Defender, Emperor Cobra (if it lives another turn or if it kills a big minion), Fel Orc Soulfiend, Felguard, Frothing Berserker, Giant Wasp (if it lives another turn or if it kills a big minion), Howlfiend (good or devastating, it depends if your hand is empty or you don't care discarding trash), Hyldnir Frostrider, Injured Blademaster, Kabal Talonpriest, King Mukla, Manic Soulcaster, Mindbreaker (but hunter also needs his hero power to bypass taunts), Mountainfire Armor, Raging Worgen (if it lives), Rat Pack, Shaku, the Collector (if it lives), Shaky Zipgunner, Tar Creeper, Twilight Elder, Unlicensed Apothecary (if you can afford to take 5-10 damage, aka vs control) Vicious Fledgling (only if it lives), Wickerflame Burnbristle = 34 minions
wild - Brann Bronzebeard, Coliseum Manager, Dancing Swords, Dark Cultist, Deathlord, Eydis Darkbane, Fierce Monkey, Fjola Lightbane, Flamewaker, Imp Gang Boss, Mounted Raptor, Ogre Brute, Spellslinger, Spider Tank, Unearthed Raptor = 15 minions
Average results - 4 attack minions - 7
wild 6
Other average results (3/3, 3/2 or 2/4 drops with no meaningful effect worth noting) - counting Eggnapper in here too 33 wild = 14
Bad outcomes - fairly weak stated minions or devastatingly nightmarish ones - Acolyte of Pain (because pay 2 mana draw a card is BAD, PEOPLE), Addled Grizzly, Alarm-o-Bot, Am'gam Rager, Backstreet Leper, Blubber Baron, Coldlight Oracle, Coldlight Seer, Dalaran Mage, Demolisher (it kinda belongs here), Disciple of C'Thun, Drakkari Enchanter, Edwin VanCleef, Elder Longneck, Flesheating Ghoul, Howling Commander, Humongous Razorleaf, Igneous Elemental (meh, could be considered an average drop), Imp Master, Ironbeak Owl, Ironforge Rifleman, Kabal Courier, Magma Rager, Mana Tide Totem, Mirage Caller, Moroes, Nightbane Templar, Pantry Spider, Plague Scientist, Pterrordax Hatchling, Questing Adventurer, Raid Leader, Razorfen Hunter, Sergeant Sally, Shadow Rager, Shallow Gravedigger, Silithid Swarmer, Silverback Patriarch, Spawn of N'Zoth (could be bad or good, it depends on the board state), Stitched Tracker, Stonehill Defender, Street Trickster, Tauren Warrior (meh if it lives), Thrallmar Farseer, Twilight Flamecaller, Val'kyr Soulclaimer, Vryghoul, Warsong Commander, Wolfrider = 49 minions
wild - Argent Horserider, Druid of the Flame, Fencing Coach, Flying Machine, Gnomeregan Infantry, Hobgoblin, Ice Rager (but it could be good, if it kills a bigger minion), Iron Sensei, Lil' Exorcist, Shade of Naxxramas, Stoneskin Gargoyle = 11 minions
^ done
I see a lot of comparisons to Bear Trap. Reminder: Bear Trap is no longer in standard.
An interesting idea, would have been much, much better if it pulled the card from your deck.
But seriously, enough with the RNG garbage. Getting one of those 2/8 taunts or whatnot is game breaking.
What 3 cost minion? It doesn't have the word randon. Any info? Anyway, a 3 mana fo two, its very good on avarege, but I don't know if hunter wants it. The reveal season just started and already seems bad for hunter.
My magic will tear you apart!
This new secret will likely kill a 2 drop, survive, and trade with a 3 drop. So it seems much better to me if that is an accurate description
the possible chance of cobra or wasp spawning
Devilsaur Egg
Not sure about this one. Value-wise it seems OK... ish. The average 3-drop is better than the Bear, not necessarily stat-wise but abilities. Interestingly especially the hunter 3-drops are quite good (Bearshark, Carrion Grub, Cloaked Huntress, Rat Pack, Shaky Zipgunner, all better then average, stat-wise).
But it's relatively easy to play around. You would normally anyway attack with the weakest minion (or weapon) first to test for Freezing, that won't change. So it's unlikely this is saving you a lot of health.
The things you mention are kinda in really optimistic conditions. Why do you think, that some of the things will survive for a Bonemare? Why do you think, that people will play their biggest minions first, which then will get killed by a Magma Rager, a poisonous minion etc. Why do you only look at the dream scenario, where everything turns out to be like you want????
razorleaf is good with bonemere, and maybe argus if you run it - In what world do you expect to get this scenario. While I don't disagree, that Bonemare is a thing, this minion doesn't threat anyone on its own. You will lose a small minion to it, but by the time you actually have Bonemare you either won, because you play a fast deck, or not, because on turn 2 you didn't develop anything on the board.....
If I could pick a card against aggro, it would be explosive trap. Don't ask me why, I have some unexplainable reasons. I don't want to be mean, but I'm really pessimistic about this card, it's heavily RNG dependent, you can't control the outcome and thus it;s not flexible at all. Why would you play it competitively?
Get down! for Hunter--not bad, but not great, either. I can't see it justifying a deck slot unless you're specifically running a Huntress deck. It does bring back to Standard a secret that procs on the condition Bear Trap used to, which is useful when you're looking to create uncertainty in your opponent.
After the rotation, maybe? Still, at that point Huntress is gone, and even with that very powerful card Secret Hunter was never particularly competitive after the CotW nerf.
Yeah was thinking blizzard wants explosive trap used more
This is about as good as bear trap , and bear trap was not a good card !
I guess Blizzard is throwing a bone to Professor Putricide on this one.
So how will it work with the Jungle Panther ? Will it attack it?
lmao