I haven’t seen Silas Warrior since the expansion hit, gaining ~30 armour and drawing your deck- especially when your opponent knows that is what you’re trying to do - seems pretty difficult looking at what has rotated out?
I haven’t seen Silas Warrior since the expansion hit, gaining ~30 armour and drawing your deck- especially when your opponent knows that is what you’re trying to do - seems pretty difficult looking at what has rotated out?
In my case, I started from another person's list so can't claim credit, but as far as I can remember it's
2 Imprisoned Gan'arg
2 Shield Slam
1 Soulbound Ashtongue
1 Acidic Swamp Ooze
2 Bulk Up
2 Corsair Cache
2 Minefield
2 Bladestorm
1 Bulwark of Azzinoth
1 Feat of Strength
2 Ironclad
1 Lord Barov
1 Kargath Bladefist
2 Outrider's Axe
2 Rancor
2 Scrap Golem
2 Stonemaul Anchorman
1 Overlord Saurfang
1 Silas Darkmoon
Feat of Strength is the 30th card and highly questionable. If you want extra insurance against Tickatus, that should be another Ashtongue, though my 20-11 record against that deck is with a singe Ashtongue. Saurfang is not wonderful, but is a better draw engine than anything else I can come up with. In a meta with lots of aggro, you could fit in the battlecry/frenzy: "deal 1 damage to all other minions" guy to spruce up the Saurfang power.
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I haven't played that much this expansion yet, so my games were mostly at silver and gold rank and thus probably not that representative, but I completely steamrolled any Controllock on my way with a Taunt Handbuff Warrior. You make your Clowns big, wait for them to waste a Twisting Nether too early and then there's basically nothing they can do to stop 2-3 boards of 9/9 or 10/10 clowns. Of course, if they manage to burn away your clowns or 10-drops too early with Tickatus, you might have a problem.
You're right, 72% played winrate is not sooo high....
If played winrate is the measure of a card's strength, Mecha'thun is (or at least WAS) the strongest card in all of Hearthstone.
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In my case, I started from another person's list so can't claim credit, but as far as I can remember it's
2 Imprisoned Gan'arg
2 Shield Slam
1 Soulbound Ashtongue
1 Acidic Swamp Ooze
2 Bulk Up
2 Corsair Cache
2 Minefield
2 Bladestorm
1 Bulwark of Azzinoth
1 Feat of Strength
2 Ironclad
1 Lord Barov
1 Kargath Bladefist
2 Outrider's Axe
2 Rancor
2 Scrap Golem
2 Stonemaul Anchorman
1 Overlord Saurfang
1 Silas Darkmoon
Feat of Strength is the 30th card and highly questionable. If you want extra insurance against Tickatus, that should be another Ashtongue, though my 20-11 record against that deck is with a singe Ashtongue. Saurfang is not wonderful, but is a better draw engine than anything else I can come up with. In a meta with lots of aggro, you could fit in the battlecry/frenzy: "deal 1 damage to all other minions" guy to spruce up the Saurfang power.
Thanks man, I’ll hopefully be able to give it a try when I look at my collection.
You're right, 72% played winrate is not sooo high....
A card could have a 100% winrate when played and still be garbage in any meta.
I dislike the design behind Tick, I really do, but his power level is always going to be determined by the speed in which other decks can kill you. If decks, control included, have early win conditions the current Tick lists are beatable.
Wanna beat Control Warlock with Warrior? Easy, just play Rattlegore and smack him in the face with weapons. That will make him cry for sure, because he has no means to defend himself against it.
Wanna beat Control Warlock with Warrior? Easy, just play Rattlegore and smack him in the face with weapons. That will make him cry for sure, because he has no means to defend himself against it.
Funny you say that, a few times I played vs Warlock decks who ran Silas specifically to counter Rattlegore and presumably libram paladin. If Control Warrior does become popular Warlock decks have more than enough ways to tech to that kind of meta.
Vicious Syndicate typically had Control/Galakrond Warlock favored over Control Warrior, whether ETC or Silas-based. It is easier for Warlock to draw Tickatus than for Warrior to draw period, particularly with Shield Block rotating. Losing Shield block / Bloodsworn has pretty much killed Silas OTK as a reasonably consistent win condition.
Warrior does still have a lot of draw. Outrider's Axe and Cutting Class are a lot, and with Corsair Cache still around to tutor the Axe, I'd say Warrior has access to its draw capabilities pretty consistently. And to that point, curving out with Lorekeeper Polkelt if Silas Darkmoon is your most expensive card in the deck means you can draw him pretty consistently too, since it'll be impossible to have Corrupted Tickatus on turn 6. At that point, Tick just helps you access your Soulbound Ashtongue sooner if you haven't drawn one yet, by burning the cards in between. At that point it's a matter of getting more armor, which I think is the real challenge there.
Lots of armor seems hard in that matchup. Need Shieldmaiden maybe.
Sure, cutting class and outriders axe are good draw options for Warrior, but losing Shield Block and Battle Rage have hurt combo-oriented control warrior decks. And Warlock still has an easier time finding Tickatus than Warrior has drawing, given Warlock's HP and cards like Free Admission.
Tickatus is so weak a card people ran , and run it in every version of control lock in there, and it's so weak they run Y'shaarj to get another copy of it. Definitely a card in need of a buff
Aside from Warlock... which I don’t even think would be Control Warrior’s biggest problem...
Control Warrior loses massively to Paladin and big Druid decks... both of which are currently top two tiers in the meta and stand to get stronger when Mage is nerfed.
It also doesn’t do very well against Rogue. There’s not a chance it’s going to be top tier during this expansion.
I think people are also neglecting the tremendous removal that warlocks also have in their control package. Tickatus (and to a lesser extent Jaraxus) just seal the deal against control. I've played plenty varaints of control decks with different classes, and while it is sometimes possible to win, you nearly always run out of threats. Then tickatus comes along and the game is invariably done.
It's not like he's a negligable board presence either.
23-11, 4 win streak against Tick and counting. About a fifth of the way to a relevant sample size.
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If there is a relevant difference between combo and control with regards to this particular topic, I'm interested. I don't really think that people are losing to me because they don't understand the matchup, though. I suppose it's possible, but against control decks who draw lots of cards, the first priority of Tick Lock is to get Tickatus online and try to make sure you have enough time to mill as many cards as possible. It's been my experience that no one is holding Tickatus against me, and they obviously know I don't have C'thun in my deck due to the lack of animation of the 4 pieces splitting at the beginning of the game.
Control and combo decks can be similar simply because a combo deck needs to survive to pull off its combo, a good example would be the some of the OTK Paladin decks that used Shirvalah or the DK hero power. Some combo decks have so much draw that they have no semblance of control to them, like old Hakkar druid or Nomi decks. The real defining feature of most combo decks is a multi card high burst damage combo, like yours. I’d argue throwing C’Thun in the deck doesn’t make it a combo deck because it’s simply one card and a win condition when you need one, whereas the main goal of the deck is to starve your opponent of resources. Looking at your decklist the objective is to gain armor and slam 1 minion after you give it to your opponent. That’s a combo. And I’d still wager people have no clue what they’re playing against when you queue up against them. As I said that deck doesn’t exist on hsreply right now, which is a very popular source of deck information. From personal experience not knowing what your opponent playing can be quite disorienting. But now we’re delving into personal opinion. At any rate I applaud you going against the grain with deck choice.
You're right, 72% played winrate is not sooo high....
A card could have a 100% winrate when played and still be garbage in any meta.
I dislike the design behind Tick, I really do, but his power level is always going to be determined by the speed in which other decks can kill you. If decks, control included, have early win conditions the current Tick lists are beatable.
But his win rates are relevant to discussion. Being simply a late game card with a win rate after play of over 70% indicates that warlock late game play is too effective. A control deck with an early win condition is not a control deck. Mecha’thun did have a similar issue, but given that the card had such strict requirements made it more fair for the most part, so the comparison isn’t that good.
If there is a relevant difference between combo and control with regards to this particular topic, I'm interested. I don't really think that people are losing to me because they don't understand the matchup, though. I suppose it's possible, but against control decks who draw lots of cards, the first priority of Tick Lock is to get Tickatus online and try to make sure you have enough time to mill as many cards as possible. It's been my experience that no one is holding Tickatus against me, and they obviously know I don't have C'thun in my deck due to the lack of animation of the 4 pieces splitting at the beginning of the game.
Control and combo decks can be similar simply because a combo deck needs to survive to pull off its combo, a good example would be the some of the OTK Paladin decks that used Shirvalah or the DK hero power. Some combo decks have so much draw that they have no semblance of control to them, like old Hakkar druid or Nomi decks. The real defining feature of most combo decks is a multi card high burst damage combo, like yours. I’d argue throwing C’Thun in the deck doesn’t make it a combo deck because it’s simply one card and a win condition when you need one, whereas the main goal of the deck is to starve your opponent of resources. Looking at your decklist the objective is to gain armor and slam 1 minion after you give it to your opponent. That’s a combo. And I’d still wager people have no clue what they’re playing against when you queue up against them. As I said that deck doesn’t exist on hsreply right now, which is a very popular source of deck information. From personal experience not knowing what your opponent playing can be quite disorienting. But now we’re delving into personal opinion. At any rate I applaud you going against the grain with deck choice.
Fair enough. I can go with that distinction.
I thought C'thun Warrior pretty much had to use him to win the game, but I suppose just adding the four cards gives you a potential fatigue win (the ultimate Chad win in control matchups) without actually playing him.
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I haven’t seen Silas Warrior since the expansion hit, gaining ~30 armour and drawing your deck- especially when your opponent knows that is what you’re trying to do - seems pretty difficult looking at what has rotated out?
What lists are people playing?
Stats on minions mean nothing in modern HS.
Odd Warrior in Wild :D
@Kinkyjohn
In my case, I started from another person's list so can't claim credit, but as far as I can remember it's
2 Imprisoned Gan'arg
2 Shield Slam
1 Soulbound Ashtongue
1 Acidic Swamp Ooze
2 Bulk Up
2 Corsair Cache
2 Minefield
2 Bladestorm
1 Bulwark of Azzinoth
1 Feat of Strength
2 Ironclad
1 Lord Barov
1 Kargath Bladefist
2 Outrider's Axe
2 Rancor
2 Scrap Golem
2 Stonemaul Anchorman
1 Overlord Saurfang
1 Silas Darkmoon
Feat of Strength is the 30th card and highly questionable. If you want extra insurance against Tickatus, that should be another Ashtongue, though my 20-11 record against that deck is with a singe Ashtongue. Saurfang is not wonderful, but is a better draw engine than anything else I can come up with. In a meta with lots of aggro, you could fit in the battlecry/frenzy: "deal 1 damage to all other minions" guy to spruce up the Saurfang power.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
You're right, 72% played winrate is not sooo high....
I haven't played that much this expansion yet, so my games were mostly at silver and gold rank and thus probably not that representative, but I completely steamrolled any Controllock on my way with a Taunt Handbuff Warrior. You make your Clowns big, wait for them to waste a Twisting Nether too early and then there's basically nothing they can do to stop 2-3 boards of 9/9 or 10/10 clowns. Of course, if they manage to burn away your clowns or 10-drops too early with Tickatus, you might have a problem.
Ceterum censeo classum magi esse delendam.
If played winrate is the measure of a card's strength, Mecha'thun is (or at least WAS) the strongest card in all of Hearthstone.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Thanks man, I’ll hopefully be able to give it a try when I look at my collection.
A card could have a 100% winrate when played and still be garbage in any meta.
I dislike the design behind Tick, I really do, but his power level is always going to be determined by the speed in which other decks can kill you. If decks, control included, have early win conditions the current Tick lists are beatable.
Wanna beat Control Warlock with Warrior? Easy, just play Rattlegore and smack him in the face with weapons. That will make him cry for sure, because he has no means to defend himself against it.
Funny you say that, a few times I played vs Warlock decks who ran Silas specifically to counter Rattlegore and presumably libram paladin. If Control Warrior does become popular Warlock decks have more than enough ways to tech to that kind of meta.
Sure, cutting class and outriders axe are good draw options for Warrior, but losing Shield Block and Battle Rage have hurt combo-oriented control warrior decks. And Warlock still has an easier time finding Tickatus than Warrior has drawing, given Warlock's HP and cards like Free Admission.
Tickatus is so weak a card people ran , and run it in every version of control lock in there, and it's so weak they run Y'shaarj to get another copy of it. Definitely a card in need of a buff
Aside from Warlock... which I don’t even think would be Control Warrior’s biggest problem...
Control Warrior loses massively to Paladin and big Druid decks... both of which are currently top two tiers in the meta and stand to get stronger when Mage is nerfed.
It also doesn’t do very well against Rogue. There’s not a chance it’s going to be top tier during this expansion.
I think people are also neglecting the tremendous removal that warlocks also have in their control package. Tickatus (and to a lesser extent Jaraxus) just seal the deal against control. I've played plenty varaints of control decks with different classes, and while it is sometimes possible to win, you nearly always run out of threats. Then tickatus comes along and the game is invariably done.
It's not like he's a negligable board presence either.
23-11, 4 win streak against Tick and counting. About a fifth of the way to a relevant sample size.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Control and combo decks can be similar simply because a combo deck needs to survive to pull off its combo, a good example would be the some of the OTK Paladin decks that used Shirvalah or the DK hero power. Some combo decks have so much draw that they have no semblance of control to them, like old Hakkar druid or Nomi decks. The real defining feature of most combo decks is a multi card high burst damage combo, like yours. I’d argue throwing C’Thun in the deck doesn’t make it a combo deck because it’s simply one card and a win condition when you need one, whereas the main goal of the deck is to starve your opponent of resources. Looking at your decklist the objective is to gain armor and slam 1 minion after you give it to your opponent. That’s a combo. And I’d still wager people have no clue what they’re playing against when you queue up against them. As I said that deck doesn’t exist on hsreply right now, which is a very popular source of deck information. From personal experience not knowing what your opponent playing can be quite disorienting. But now we’re delving into personal opinion. At any rate I applaud you going against the grain with deck choice.
Control Warrior is dead, even Saurfang was unable to pull the class out of the grave (literally....)
But his win rates are relevant to discussion. Being simply a late game card with a win rate after play of over 70% indicates that warlock late game play is too effective. A control deck with an early win condition is not a control deck. Mecha’thun did have a similar issue, but given that the card had such strict requirements made it more fair for the most part, so the comparison isn’t that good.
Fair enough. I can go with that distinction.
I thought C'thun Warrior pretty much had to use him to win the game, but I suppose just adding the four cards gives you a potential fatigue win (the ultimate Chad win in control matchups) without actually playing him.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.