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    posted a message on Shaman mechanics
    Quote from schnitzel >>
    Quote from razor565 >>
    Quote from schnitzel >>

     I would disagree with this, but feel free to have a conversation with me.

    Cards like Elementary Reaction, Arid Stormer, Lilypad Lurker, and definitely Kalimos, Primal Lord feel like pretty strong cards with their effects and prerequisites.

    Elementary Reaction can be compared to Mimic Pod, but I would say it's straight up better. You need to have played an Elemental last turn for it to be 1 Mana cheaper than Mimic Pod, but even if you didn't play an Elemental last turn it's still a 2 Mana draw 1.

    Arid Stormer could be compared to a Crabrider with a Smuggler's Run, sure, Crabrider feels stronger because Smuggler's Run isn't the only buff Paladins use on it, but as a 3 Mana, 2/5, Rush Windfury they are the same, only a Paladin pays 2 cards, and a Shaman pays an Elemental last turn.

    Lilypad Lurker is just Hex on a stick. Whether you compare it to the old 3 Mana Hex, or the current 4 Mana Hex, Lilypad Lurker is at worst a 2 Mana 4/5. The only downside being you have to have played an Elemental last turn, but this is partially negated through the fact Lilypad Lurker itself is an Elemental, unlike Hex of course. (And you can't Hex your own Minions anymore or Hex on turn 4, but this is really minor.)

    Kalimos, Primal Lord is arguably the best 'Elemental last turn' card of all. His Invocations being very strong for his total cost.

    Invocation of Air being the same as Lightning Storm since its buff, would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 3 Mana 7/7. (Assuming that 2 Overload = 2 Mana.)

    Invocation of Fire is similar to a Fireball, but since it only goes Face let's say it's worth 3 mana. This makes Kalimos, Primal Lord a 5 Mana 7/7.

    Invocation of Earth is most similar to Stand Against Darkness, you do get an extra Minion, so maybe make it cost 6 Mana. Eitherway this would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 2 or 3 mana 7/7. Though I'm not gonna lie, this Invocation just isn't that good, despite the Mana/Value comparison. Probably better than Onyxia though, for what that's worth.

    Invocation of Water is similar to Hidden Oasis, 6 Mana Forbidden Healing, or 3 Witch's Brews, this would make Kalimos, Primal Lord a 2 Mana 7/7. (Can only go face though.)

    All those four Invocations with the only downside of an Elemental last turn of course. But the fact you can choose them is a great upside in its own right.

    I guess what I'm trying to say with this colourful wall of text is that I believe the Elemental last turn mechanic really isn't as bad as you might think. Though this does depend on the amount of Elementals you have put in your deck of course. But for Wild players like myself, it only gets better and better as more and more viable Elemental cards get printed, even some without the Elemental last turn prerequisite.

    Again, feel free to disagree and start a conversation, I'll be happy to discuss.

    Also, I didn't go into any Neutral or non-Shaman class Elementals because you did say that Shaman isn't as strong as other classes with its Elementals, so I focused on Shamans Elementals.

    Forgot to quote in my last posting..but the message is still the same..Another non shaman player telling us how strong the class is when its trash in standard.My challenge is the same.Build the kick-ass shaman deck your talking about and take it and ladder with it.

    From bronze to legend.Prove us shaman players wrong.

    Dude, except for Arid Stormer which I took out cause it was underwhelming, all the cards I mentioned in the post are in my current, favorite, and most played deck. Even the Stone Sentinel in the post below it. I don't know why you just assume I'm a non Shaman player who's trying to make excuses why Shaman is good and doesn't need a change.

    I also never said it's some unicorn deck that completely shits on the ladder. I said it's not the worst mechanic and you can have fun with it and even beat strong decks with it.

    As for reaching rank Legend with Shaman, I did last month, not with Elementals, but I reached rank Legend with Shaman.

    As many of the cards you mention are wild I’ll presume that is where you got legend, and I believe the conversation is mainly focused on the state of shammy  in standard. If you did get legend in standard with shammy then I’m apologise and gz, you’re obviously some sort of hs genius being able to get the current dumpster fire of a class to work. 

    Posted in: Standard Format
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    posted a message on Too many nerfs?
    Quote from Neko_Tamo >>
    Quote from Tyk3 >>

    I would say if you averaged out nerfs over the last 6 expansions it’s more like nerfs every 6 weeks / 2 months (ive not done the math so might be wrong.)

    I’d say the problem is more why aren’t blizzard spotting problematic cards before they’re even printed. Are you telling me no one saw Crabrider with 4 hp at 2 mana being a problem at any point? Or none of their testers were big brain enough to work out lunacy could get you all the best spells from other classes on turn 2?

    From bronze 10 to legend all you see is the most efficient T1 decks so even after nerfs it’s of no consequence really, and as blizzard don’t seem to be able get a balance where more than 3 decks are playable you’ll just be queueing into the same decks within a week of nerfs landing  

     1. Is six expansions ago when this supposed quicker moderation policy came to be? I feel it is a more recent thing but not sure, as i've said I've just come back. And it seems that way to me, since now nerfs seem to come about every two weeks, maybe three.

    2. I agree that too often cards that are obviously broken get printed. But perhaps that is by design, since such cards get the juices flowing and make people rush to buy packs. Perhaps exactly because they know those will get the nerf and want to have fun/the advantage.

    3. Not sure what you mean by this. If you have one good deck and it gets nerfed you either craft another good one or you drop out for the time being. Either way the outcome is the same, only the most cookie cutter decks can succeed at higher ranks. It doesn't say anything about the nerf policy except maybe that it sucks at promoting many decks. Regardless you will always have the strongest decks dominate the meta since people want to climb, not lose.

     I just meant that if anyone is expecting nerfs to make the game fresh and add more variation they’ll be disappointed because within a week it will just be net decks at every tier of play. I guess what I was trying to say is Nerfs are pointless when there is no incentive to play anything but the strongest decks. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Game Reworks That I'd Like to See

    Cascading Disaster is not over costed, especially when you can easily play 4 in one game. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Game Reworks That I'd Like to See
    Quote from The_Duke >>

    No rule without exceptions... 

     I would say an exception would be the odd card that defies the rule. Warlock healing does a bit more than just defy the rule. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Game Reworks That I'd Like to See
    Quote from IDProG123 >>
    Quote from Tyk3 >>
    Quote from IDProG123 >>
    Quote from Strongpoint >>

    Another greedy player who wants to nuke board-centric aggro away from existence.

    Another player who fails to understand class identity, that druid is meant to be bad with interacting with the board, hunter is meant to be bad in board clears, etc.

     

    But this post does have something new! It offers the game in which ramp druids will annihilate everyone by dropping huge minions on turn 3-4

     "Druid is meant to be bad with the board"

    Show me where Blizzard says this.

    Poison Seeds, Swipe, Starfall, Explosive Trap would like to disagree with you.

    Board control cards can exist, regardless of class. They don't violate class' identity.

    "Greedy player"

    Because greedy players want stronger board clears, right? Board clears DESTROY greedy players. Greedy players hate strong board clears. Ramp Druid hates Twisting Nether.

    Last thing, nobody is saying Ramp Druid is a balanced deck. It's a part of the reason why people play aggro, alongside Control Warlock.

     https://dotesports.com/hearthstone/news/blizzard-outlines-class-identity-in-hearthstone

    Druid

    Strengths: Mana generation, giant minions, minion swarms, card draw, Beasts

    Weaknesses: Destroying big minions, board clear.

     Thank you for actually showing actual proof. I appreciate it, genuinely.

    However, many cards violate the identities already. For example, Conditioning (Rank 1) for Warrior and Man'ari Mosher for Warlock.

     I agree, in some (lots) of cases blizzard just outright ignored their own class identity guide lines. 

    Warlock - big healing. We all know they didn't stick to that one. 

    Hunter - card draw. Anyone notice hunters having card draw problems at the moment?

    They did stick to druids not having board clear though, although I would say animal companions is a pretty effective board clear most of the time with the right minions. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Game Reworks That I'd Like to See
    Quote from IDProG123 >>
    Quote from Strongpoint >>

    Another greedy player who wants to nuke board-centric aggro away from existence.

    Another player who fails to understand class identity, that druid is meant to be bad with interacting with the board, hunter is meant to be bad in board clears, etc.

     

    But this post does have something new! It offers the game in which ramp druids will annihilate everyone by dropping huge minions on turn 3-4

     "Druid is meant to be bad with the board"

    Show me where Blizzard says this.

    Poison Seeds, Swipe, Starfall, Explosive Trap would like to disagree with you.

    Board control cards can exist, regardless of class. They don't violate class' identity.

    "Greedy player"

    Because greedy players want stronger board clears, right? Board clears DESTROY greedy players. Greedy players hate strong board clears. Ramp Druid hates Twisting Nether.

    Last thing, nobody is saying Ramp Druid is a balanced deck. It's a part of the reason why people play aggro, alongside Control Warlock.

     https://dotesports.com/hearthstone/news/blizzard-outlines-class-identity-in-hearthstone

    Druid

    Strengths: Mana generation, giant minions, minion swarms, card draw, Beasts

    Weaknesses: Destroying big minions, board clear.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Hearthstone needs a Report Feature SO BAD

    What rules are ropers breaking to make them worth reporting?

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Too many nerfs?

    I would say if you averaged out nerfs over the last 6 expansions it’s more like nerfs every 6 weeks / 2 months (ive not done the math so might be wrong.)

    I’d say the problem is more why aren’t blizzard spotting problematic cards before they’re even printed. Are you telling me no one saw Crabrider with 4 hp at 2 mana being a problem at any point? Or none of their testers were big brain enough to work out lunacy could get you all the best spells from other classes on turn 2?

    From bronze 10 to legend all you see is the most efficient T1 decks so even after nerfs it’s of no consequence really, and as blizzard don’t seem to be able get a balance where more than 3 decks are playable you’ll just be queueing into the same decks within a week of nerfs landing  

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Incoming nerf predictions

    Crab rider to 1/3, lunacy to fill your deck with totally random spells that cost 3 less and Alex can’t target face for dmg. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Shaman mechanics

    In a meta where stats + minions mean nothing, apart from maybe rush warrior (pretty much every class has no problem clearing boards these days) , shammys need far better spells than they’ve got. For a caster class in lore the current standard set of spells is so bad. Plus things like a decent card Groundskeeper only has 2 spells that actually activate it and 1 is complete garbage and the other is way too slow. Blizzard must know that shaman is garbage when they’re making design decisions like that.  

    Posted in: Standard Format
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    posted a message on Cards you hate that aren’t broken.

    Quickly getting bored of dying to the new Leeroy Alexstrasza the Life-Binder in every deck. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Rogue is DEAD !

    Not played rogue for a while so I don’t know the state of the class, but I do know ‘One of the top 100 players in the world is doing well so class is not dead’ is about the worst argument I’ve ever seen on here. 

    Posted in: Standard Format
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    posted a message on Shaman mechanics

    They should just make evolve a permanent shaman mechanic. Apart from pure aggro, ‘cheating’ is the name of the game in modern HS and evolve mechanics seem a perfect way to bring shaman up to speed. Most overload cards wouldn’t get played if they didn’t overload, especially in the current state of the game where stats on minions are practically worthless. 

    Posted in: Standard Format
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    posted a message on The state of the HS community

    Wow. Not been back since page 1 and I've got to say this is hearthpwn distilled into a single thread. It kind of reminded me of the Manchester New year's eve photo in its ability to capture the whole experience in a single place. 

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35214873

     

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Boring Boring Shaman
    Quote from OverholtNA >>

    Seems like it should be more interesting with all of the discover cards, but none of them really have the potential to yield interesting cards other than maybe Lady Vashz off of Primordial Studies. Makes it tough for the deck to go long, whereas other discover-heavy decks have the ability to really stockpile value. Guess it may have something to do with Shammy only having two cards greater than 6 mana, and the 8-cost spell is purely reactionary.

    The most interesting aspect of Shammy for me right now is chaining Instructor Fireheart discovers, but you're not cheating out any mana so even those turns are pretty uninspiring compared to a Rogue miracle turn with Field Contact (which is just a rare minion to boot).

     I was watching a game earlier and a priest had 2 X Sethekk Veilweaver and 2 X Nazmani Bloodweaver on board. I'm not saying that's a game winning board but it's a very interesting one that has a lot of gameplay connotations. Even with an the most interesting card instructor fireheart on board I can't think of any shenanigans a shaman could do that come even close. 

     

    Posted in: Standard Format
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