See them evolve a huge board into one that includes Doomsayer feels almost as good. This happens quite often given that Evolve Shaman often evolves a ton of 1-drops (either via Tour Guide + hero power or Derailed Coaster)
Bogspine knuckles becomes a 2/2 with battlecry: Transform up to 3 random minions into ones that cost (1) more.
Shaman doesn't need the extra 2 dmg, plus transforming an entire board is becoming tired.
Hoard pillager becomes a 1/2.
This card is too strong already giving multiple classes 4 wields of their weapons. It doesn't need the attack on top of that.
Hoard pillager should give you back the weapon with 1 durability. And yeah, the knuckles should somehow affect only a portion of the board. Those shamans are so repetitive and boring.
Right I'm getting ahead of the game. When evolve shammy gets nerfed we all need to start to bitch about the deck that will replace it, whirlkick rogue, a deck built around a card that has not had anyone mention it, never mind moan about it, since it was released over a year ago (similiarities?). Whirlkick Master is probably the most OP card ever printed and needs to cost 10 and have a tech card printed to specifically counter it with the wording 'destroys all whirlkick master's not only in your opponents deck, but deletes it from every HS player collection forever and blows up the card designer who came up with it'.
The weapon is broken, but just play zoolock. I cruised to legend after switching to zoo, when my control/value decks couldn't consistently beat shaman. I built a deck that specifically targeted shaman, which would win, but couldn't consistently beat rogues or paladins. Zoo beats them all right now.
Boggspine Knuckles is just too cheap, make it cost 6. The one mana difference could go a long way as it could allow opponents to develop a bigger board to deal with the threat. Or just thinking out loud... it could be evolves an 'x' number your minions (that might be too harsh of a nerf, but I think it's certainly reasonable).
Stickyfinger is not great for slowing the deck. It's only good if they equip the weapon the turn before. Once they evolve everything it's just too late. That's fine though, since we don't need a neutral epic countering an entire archetype.
My point is that something has to change, there's just too few decks (if any) that can beat it. They just overwhelm on the board way too quick.
My point is that something has to change, there's just too few decks (if any) that can beat it. They just overwhelm on the board way too quick.
This is really the crux of the problem not just with shaman but with every FOTM for the past few months. There's just no counters to the most popular deck except more cowbell (i.e. play the deck yourself).
Personally the card I find most problematic is bloom, that card should never have been printed. It enables shaman to get knuckles out before you can play a tech card, and it's completely broken in druid.
Evolve Shaman has just one matchup with a win rate below 50% (aggro Demon Hunter, which is quite poor against the rest of the field and as such is not very popular) so let’s not pretend it isn’t a problem. I do think there is an element of players not understanding how to play out their early turns against Shaman but it is still clearly very oppressive.
Stickyfinger is amazing tech for the matchup but if the most effective meta call is to run 2 copies of Stickyfinger in every deck, then there is quite obviously a problem. What’s worse is that other less oppressive decks that rely on weapons to win get caught in the crossfire here, while the Shaman can still beat you down through its linear consistency and relentless tide of weapon charges thanks to Hoard Pillager.
I don’t think making knuckles a battlecry is the right answer, because you’re turning 8 charges into 2 and forcing them to set up a board before playing the weapon. This is over the top and not a fair way to balance the card. Making it a 4/1 is interesting but it would have to have a mana cost reduction to avoid being completely redundant. The optimal move is probably a simple mana cost adjustment to 6 to give players more time to set up a defence.
I am generally against nerfing cards when I believe the counterplay is “get better,” but this deck has the highest play rate AND win rate in top legend, so can’t really argue that in this case.
Nerfs really should only be used against cards that cannot really be played around or limit design space. The knucks fit neither criteria
What? No they shouldn't, that's terrible thinking. Sometimes they are just a bit too quick or consistent to remain 'fair'.
Whereas other things that can't necessarily be played around are just fine.
They put things together something like a year ahead, they are designing cards right now that we won't see until 2022 and with that comes some issues with projecting every single card and it's impact. It seems to me that knuckles are a little too consistent and come a touch early. That's the only problem with that deck, especially as it high rolls far more often than it low rolls, especially when they have multiple tools to flood the board more than once by turn 6.
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Maybe raise the mana cost to 6 for this weapon to have more Time to deal with the board.
and/or make it a 4/1 - 3/1 (so 1 Evolve charge)
Nerfs really should only be used against cards that cannot really be played around or limit design space. The knucks fit neither criteria
I cant believe they pushed the evolve architype again after seeing how unhappy it made everyone during the "Doom in the Tomb" event
At times i really do think Team 5 are seriously fucking stupid. Evolve mechanics has always been cancer.
I have to say that:
Hoard pillager should give you back the weapon with 1 durability. And yeah, the knuckles should somehow affect only a portion of the board. Those shamans are so repetitive and boring.
Im playing control/galakrond shaman and the revolve one cant even touch me
if they won't rotate it Early -i'd go with;
Boggspine Knuckles (Weapon)
3 attack /2 durability - Transform 5 of your friendly minions into Random ones that cost (1) more.
Hoard Pillager
Equip a Destroyed Weapon, with half of its original durability.
Right I'm getting ahead of the game. When evolve shammy gets nerfed we all need to start to bitch about the deck that will replace it, whirlkick rogue, a deck built around a card that has not had anyone mention it, never mind moan about it, since it was released over a year ago (similiarities?). Whirlkick Master is probably the most OP card ever printed and needs to cost 10 and have a tech card printed to specifically counter it with the wording 'destroys all whirlkick master's not only in your opponents deck, but deletes it from every HS player collection forever and blows up the card designer who came up with it'.
The weapon is broken, but just play zoolock. I cruised to legend after switching to zoo, when my control/value decks couldn't consistently beat shaman. I built a deck that specifically targeted shaman, which would win, but couldn't consistently beat rogues or paladins. Zoo beats them all right now.
Boggspine Knuckles is just too cheap, make it cost 6. The one mana difference could go a long way as it could allow opponents to develop a bigger board to deal with the threat. Or just thinking out loud... it could be evolves an 'x' number your minions (that might be too harsh of a nerf, but I think it's certainly reasonable).
Stickyfinger is not great for slowing the deck. It's only good if they equip the weapon the turn before. Once they evolve everything it's just too late. That's fine though, since we don't need a neutral epic countering an entire archetype.
My point is that something has to change, there's just too few decks (if any) that can beat it. They just overwhelm on the board way too quick.
This is really the crux of the problem not just with shaman but with every FOTM for the past few months. There's just no counters to the most popular deck except more cowbell (i.e. play the deck yourself).
Personally the card I find most problematic is bloom, that card should never have been printed. It enables shaman to get knuckles out before you can play a tech card, and it's completely broken in druid.
Evolve Shaman has just one matchup with a win rate below 50% (aggro Demon Hunter, which is quite poor against the rest of the field and as such is not very popular) so let’s not pretend it isn’t a problem. I do think there is an element of players not understanding how to play out their early turns against Shaman but it is still clearly very oppressive.
Stickyfinger is amazing tech for the matchup but if the most effective meta call is to run 2 copies of Stickyfinger in every deck, then there is quite obviously a problem. What’s worse is that other less oppressive decks that rely on weapons to win get caught in the crossfire here, while the Shaman can still beat you down through its linear consistency and relentless tide of weapon charges thanks to Hoard Pillager.
I don’t think making knuckles a battlecry is the right answer, because you’re turning 8 charges into 2 and forcing them to set up a board before playing the weapon. This is over the top and not a fair way to balance the card. Making it a 4/1 is interesting but it would have to have a mana cost reduction to avoid being completely redundant. The optimal move is probably a simple mana cost adjustment to 6 to give players more time to set up a defence.
I am generally against nerfing cards when I believe the counterplay is “get better,” but this deck has the highest play rate AND win rate in top legend, so can’t really argue that in this case.
What? No they shouldn't, that's terrible thinking. Sometimes they are just a bit too quick or consistent to remain 'fair'.
Whereas other things that can't necessarily be played around are just fine.
They put things together something like a year ahead, they are designing cards right now that we won't see until 2022 and with that comes some issues with projecting every single card and it's impact. It seems to me that knuckles are a little too consistent and come a touch early. That's the only problem with that deck, especially as it high rolls far more often than it low rolls, especially when they have multiple tools to flood the board more than once by turn 6.