i really thing after these recent nerfs game is at its best shape, there have never been a time where each class has good and decent decks, well expect hunter but still
druid - Jade druid is good and malygos and token druid are actually decent
mage - reno and tempo both viable
paladin - anyfin is decent, and kolentos buffadin works wonders
priest - dragon and reno both top tier imo
rogue - well water rogue definently takes the cake here but miracle isnt dead it is decent even malygos rogue isnt half bad
shaman - well we know about shaman, jade aggro both super powerful but control shaman is decent aswell
warlock - RENOLOCK
warrior - with or without dragons the pirates rule
But my criticism of the game is that each class has 1 or 2 decks that are viable, where ideally each class should have multiple (i.e. 3+) viable decks. The nerfs/ladder gates were a step in the right direction (and who knows maybe the next expansion could help bring out more archetypes), but there is more work that needs to be done.
Untill jade is in the game i'll keep complaining... I challenge you to create a proper control deck without the jade mechaninc... After that think about the future of the game if the basic "trinity" of card game is this fucked. No control deck because of jade means more aggro decks to counter it, jade works as a midrange mechanic too so no use playing any kind of midrange... The basic thing that should keep the game healthy isn't there at all... And let's not consider Reno decks as control in this situation, because honestly if they ever want to have a chance of winning agaist jade they have to play the aggro or midrange game... So here's for you the explanation why people are still complaining... Until they fix the jade mechaninc in some way the basics of the card game are screwed and that's really bad
There's one single thing I love about the jade mechanic which it consequentially brought to the game - the use of Deathwing. Deathwing itself is a giant game swinger against jade decks, yes, this card alone can be the difference between winning and losing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
You wanna know why are we complaining? We can start with your second sentance; 'Jade druid is good' You see, there's a mistake my friend, it is not good, it is- infinite value for 1 mana no control, fatigue and mill decks allowed broken piece of shit card. That's why we are complaining.
Do you seriously think Jade Idol is balanced? That's not worth complaining?
Do you think that heroic brawl timing was good? Just before a major expansion?
Do you think price increase just before the expansion was a good move?
Jade Idol is the worst card ever made in terms of balance. Heroic brawl was a gold sink. Price increase was badly timed by blizzard. The game is not in a good state.
Well constructed "complaints" are the key to constructive feedback. There are serious flaws to the game that are the result of poor design and warrant discussion and, hopefully, change.
I can dig this, but I think the problem is 95% (it's probably less, but it feels like that much sometimes) of the complaints aren't well constructed and generally not well backed up when prompted. There's a middle ground between "nothing is wrong" and "OMG THIS GAME IS DEAD" that most of the vocal minority hasn't learned to really grasp, and they aren't producing constructive feedback.
It's also pretty much a neverending cycle, so I'm not sure it's like Team 5 can ever win with everyone. I like that MSoG brought back Aggro, while others think it's basically the worst thing to ever happen to the game; I hate metas where fatigue decks are actually relatively common, but based on the Jade Idol thread you'd think Team 5 killed the puppy of every Control player alive. Not saying one side or the other is even correct about their opinion, just that I doubt there's ever going to be a set where everyone is legitimately content with the design and meta.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
Untill jade is in the game i'll keep complaining... I challenge you to create a proper control deck without the jade mechaninc... After that think about the future of the game if the basic "trinity" of card game is this fucked. No control deck because of jade means more aggro decks to counter it, jade works as a midrange mechanic too so no use playing any kind of midrange... The basic thing that should keep the game healthy isn't there at all... And let's not consider Reno decks as control in this situation, because honestly if they ever want to have a chance of winning agaist jade they have to play the aggro or midrange game... So here's for you the explanation why people are still complaining... Until they fix the jade mechaninc in some way the basics of the card game are screwed and that's really bad
Reno's rotating, so I'm not sure if I understand your point regarding the Reno vs Jade match-up. FWIW - the match-up is essentially even in Wild, with the Reno decks all having 46%-54% win-rates against Jade Druid and Jade Shaman. Renolock is the only exception, and is highly favoured against Jade Shaman. Jade Shaman is losing its early game with the rotation - it isn't obvious if the deck will remain competitive if it lacks Trogg and Golem. Jade Druid should be fine, inasmuch as it doesn't lose anything when YotMammoth hits. We don't know what tools will be given to slower decks in the new expansion, so it doesn't seem particularly worthwhile to complain.
I just don't see how all these complaints help. Why shit on the game we all love playing? How must this look to new players coming in? People aren't willing to solve there own problems they just go to the forums and complain and blame blizzard. The game isn't perfect but it's far from bad and not deserving of all the hate these people give it. I just get so down reading these negative comments all the time, it makes me want to find a member of the hearthstone team and give them a hug, don't listen to them, the vast majority of us love your game and think you do a great job.
i really thing after these recent nerfs game is at its best shape, there have never been a time where each class has good and decent decks, well expect hunter but still
druid - Jade druid is good and malygos and token druid are actually decent
mage - reno and tempo both viable
paladin - anyfin is decent, and kolentos buffadin works wonders
priest - dragon and reno both top tier imo
rogue - well water rogue definently takes the cake here but miracle isnt dead it is decent even malygos rogue isnt half bad
shaman - well we know about shaman, jade aggro both super powerful but control shaman is decent aswell
warlock - RENOLOCK
warrior - with or without dragons the pirates rule
The game isn't even close to its best shape. The meta is still the most dull it's ever been. Each class doesn't have the same level of good decks either. The decks you listed for each class sounded like some rank 20-15 decks. In reality, the meta is:
Druid - Jade. Some malygos and token running around but don't do well against shaman.
Mage - Reno. Just reno.
Paladin - No viable decks. Closest thing to viable is the buffadin.
Priest - Dragon reno/control. Not tier 1 because of jade.
Rogue - Water rogue. Miracle gets beat by aggressive early game.
Shaman - Aggro and jade. Don't make me laugh when you say that control shaman is in the meta.
Warlock - Renolock.
Warrior - Pirates.
Hunter - lmao
What do all these decks have in common? All strong decks are pirates, jade, and reno. Pirates beat jade, jade beats reno, reno only sometimes beat jade and pirates. There's no way out of this cycle. Control decks that try to run you out of value like control warrior CANNOT exist in the meta because of jade. Jade simply has too much value. Like I've been saying, worst offender of this is jade idol.
You call this meta diverse? I'm playing against the same deck in different classes. The only way to beat the meta is to use the meta decks. Keep in mind these are only the possible options for each class. In reality, there are only 5 specific tier 1 decks in the meta.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
i really thing after these recent nerfs game is at its best shape, there have never been a time where each class has good and decent decks,
This is where you are wrong my friend.Everyone who claims this is either a somewhat new player(1-2 years) or a fanboy.The game was at its best after leeroy nerf and before naxx with the patron/wotog meta coming close.Hearthstone is like gem (a simple but elegant game) that gets repeatelly shited on.High skill decks like Handlock,freeze mage,malygos decks all are getting killed off along with moderate skill cap decks like control warrior and control priest for the sake of pirates,jades and other braindead crap.
The community should do its best to be vocal,civil and constructive about these issues and to a good degree it accomplishes that.Sure there whiners that cry about everything without arguments but they are ignored so they do no harm.What is harmful though is fanboys that baptise every critism as whine and glorify blizz pr no matter what.Mistakes are mistakes and should be fixed.
Do you seriously think Jade Idol is balanced? That's not worth complaining?
Do you think that heroic brawl timing was good? Just before a major expansion?
Do you think price increase just before the expansion was a good move?
Jade Idol is the worst card ever made in terms of balance. Heroic brawl was a gold sink. Price increase was badly timed by blizzard. The game is not in a good state.
This^
Jade mechanic is the most awful and boring mechanic the game has ever had, it's totally boring instead of having a colorful board full of different minions (even if they are the same every time) you get a board full of vanilla X/X minions that just control the board and you can't stop the value cause you will get beaten by a 1 mana 9/9..
Brann leaving is good to nerf jade shaman mostly.. the real card that needs nerfing is aya and jade idol both cards are the real problem of jade.. if it weren't for the pirates we would be now full of jade decks specially druid.. jade is the worst thing that happened to this game, also patches.
Powercreeped the game.
I played the fabled secret paladin(quest-wild), didn't stand a chance against jade decks they are that insane... hell dr.boom isn't played in wild anymore cause it's not enough against jade or reno decks (not to talk about it not fitting N'zoth decks there), that's how insane are the gadgetzan cards, how funny is playing a 6-7-8 curve when you are dead at turn 4 huh?
there's a HUGE difference between an impactfull expansion and a massive powercreep expansion which gadgetzan was.
Hunter was a top deck before gadgetzan now it's priest level of bad, and it won't get buffed cause it was good then they already had unguru made when gadgetzan was just released.. and now hunter is too weak.. hunter with the still great midrange package it had just cna't compete against patches or jade..
TL;DR: Jade is an awful mechanic since day 1.
Prefer the meta before karazhan in WOTOG it was perfect.. in the first 2 months of LOE it was great too(then got stale.. but that's another story) was great also after UT nerf, patrons weren't really everywhere.. it had low win rate and high skill.
Hope unguru gives some insteresting archtypes while not powercreeping the game.... rotate patches to wild too BTW..
This thread is so stupid. You can't just tell people to stop complaining about the game. That is because people don't appreciate it when they are being told what to do or not to do, especially when considering that it tramples on their right to speak their mind.
Valid criticism of the game should exist as feedback for the developers to understand what the community wants most and then to have them act on that. With no feedback you would get no change to the way the game is developed, which would mean that the discontent would still remain or worse, grow. Ofc this doesn't mean that if somebody says 'Jade Idol is broken', the dev team should act upon it immediately, especially because several of these demands are unreasonable and nerfs have been typically very bad for the game (due to them often resulting in the card being made unplayable). However, feedback (of any kind, but preferably the constructive kind) should always exist because it typically results in positive change for the game (be it in design approach in the future or in immediate changes that need to be made to maintain balance, a.k.a nerfs).
We all have opinions and in a site like this we should have the right to express them, so opening a thread on non expressing your opinion is smth that really doesn't sit right with me. Does this lead to some undesirable behavior? Yes (especially when I hear stuff like 'Fire the dev team' or even death threats and the like), but just because people misuse a concept and push it too far doesn't mean the concept in and of itself is at fault. It is not criticism that is to blame, but how people criticize.
With a game as big as Hearthstone it is likely that many people will be unhappy (at any point in time), so it becomes more difficult to discern between the legitimate complaint and the personal ones. However, trying to stop people from complaining isn't the right way to behave. Maybe it is that the OP is happy with the situation, whereas others aren't or maybe the OP never complains, but that doesn't mean he can tell other people not to complain, since all our opinions hold equal value, whether certain people in this thread like it or not. Whether we are right to make a specific complaint or not is smth that should then be discussed through facts.
Was it? Hmm, that's funny... I still have the same amount of gold after the brawl ended as I did when it began.
People who bought into the Heroic Brawl knew exactly what they were doing. Everyone else just stayed the hell away from it.
Everything about this game is optional. You can choose whether or not to spend gold on the Heroic Brawl, you can choose whether or not you want to spend IRL money on packs, and (most importantly) you can choose whether or not this game is worth your time at all!
Was it? Hmm, that's funny... I still have the same amount of gold after the brawl ended as I did when it began.
People who bought into the Heroic Brawl knew exactly what they were doing. Everyone else just stayed the hell away from it.
Everything about this game is optional. You can choose whether or not to spend gold on the Heroic Brawl, you can choose whether or not you want to spend IRL money on packs, and (most importantly) you can choose whether or not this game is worth your time at all!
Yeah, this is something Day9 talked about on his stream a couple weeks ago; Blizzard isn't mandating you spend your gold or money on Heroic Tavern Brawl, and if you have no interest in the Brawl you can just skip it and do something else. If you DO spend your gold on HTB, clearly you wanted to play HTB and felt it was worth the cost... which means that you decided that it was worth gambling 10 packs from Un'Goro for the chance at getting 50 MSoG packs, a bunch of dust, a bunch of gold, and golden legendaries.
As much as it's a cool narrative to paint HTB as an evil capitalistic plot... unless you literally can't help yourself and have to spend gold on anything new that comes across in a patch, you aren't getting duped. They also haven't been secretive about rewards for HTB, so it's not like they tried to pull a bait-and-switch even.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
OP doesn't seem to understand the basic mechanic of this game. Just because you can put 30 cards together doesn't make it a competitive viable deck. There are other gimmicky fun decks that you can play, however there is no way to be competitive with these decks.
Meta is so refined now there are only handful of decks have a chance to succeed. Moreover meta is so polarised, for some match ups you will have no chance. Yes in card games you might have hard counters but not like this. It is not even about winning or losing. It is not fun to keep playing against the same deck over and over and over again.
i really thing after these recent nerfs game is at its best shape, there have never been a time where each class has good and decent decks, well expect hunter but still
druid - Jade druid is good and malygos and token druid are actually decent
mage - reno and tempo both viable
paladin - anyfin is decent, and kolentos buffadin works wonders
priest - dragon and reno both top tier imo
rogue - well water rogue definently takes the cake here but miracle isnt dead it is decent even malygos rogue isnt half bad
shaman - well we know about shaman, jade aggro both super powerful but control shaman is decent aswell
warlock - RENOLOCK
warrior - with or without dragons the pirates rule
Ok then, i'll complain about hunter's sick
But my criticism of the game is that each class has 1 or 2 decks that are viable, where ideally each class should have multiple (i.e. 3+) viable decks. The nerfs/ladder gates were a step in the right direction (and who knows maybe the next expansion could help bring out more archetypes), but there is more work that needs to be done.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
You wanna know why are we complaining? We can start with your second sentance; 'Jade druid is good' You see, there's a mistake my friend, it is not good, it is- infinite value for 1 mana no control, fatigue and mill decks allowed broken piece of shit card. That's why we are complaining.
reno priest...lol
i am eagerly looking forward to a meta where control isn't based on jade or reno.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Do you seriously think Jade Idol is balanced? That's not worth complaining?
Do you think that heroic brawl timing was good? Just before a major expansion?
Do you think price increase just before the expansion was a good move?
Jade Idol is the worst card ever made in terms of balance. Heroic brawl was a gold sink. Price increase was badly timed by blizzard. The game is not in a good state.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
I just don't see how all these complaints help. Why shit on the game we all love playing? How must this look to new players coming in? People aren't willing to solve there own problems they just go to the forums and complain and blame blizzard. The game isn't perfect but it's far from bad and not deserving of all the hate these people give it. I just get so down reading these negative comments all the time, it makes me want to find a member of the hearthstone team and give them a hug, don't listen to them, the vast majority of us love your game and think you do a great job.
Its not about whether each class has a viable deck or not. It's about whether the game is actually fun to play, and currently it is not.
Jade is by far the most stupid mechanic they have ever released. Top that off with some incredibly retarded aggro cards and bam: worst metagame ever.
No, OP.
Look, I want to tell you something because you're very dear to me. And I hope you understand that it comes from the bottom of my damaged, damaged heart. You are the finest piece of ass I've ever had and I don't care who knows it. I am so glad that I got to roam those hillsides.
This thread is so stupid. You can't just tell people to stop complaining about the game. That is because people don't appreciate it when they are being told what to do or not to do, especially when considering that it tramples on their right to speak their mind.
Valid criticism of the game should exist as feedback for the developers to understand what the community wants most and then to have them act on that. With no feedback you would get no change to the way the game is developed, which would mean that the discontent would still remain or worse, grow. Ofc this doesn't mean that if somebody says 'Jade Idol is broken', the dev team should act upon it immediately, especially because several of these demands are unreasonable and nerfs have been typically very bad for the game (due to them often resulting in the card being made unplayable). However, feedback (of any kind, but preferably the constructive kind) should always exist because it typically results in positive change for the game (be it in design approach in the future or in immediate changes that need to be made to maintain balance, a.k.a nerfs).
We all have opinions and in a site like this we should have the right to express them, so opening a thread on non expressing your opinion is smth that really doesn't sit right with me. Does this lead to some undesirable behavior? Yes (especially when I hear stuff like 'Fire the dev team' or even death threats and the like), but just because people misuse a concept and push it too far doesn't mean the concept in and of itself is at fault. It is not criticism that is to blame, but how people criticize.
With a game as big as Hearthstone it is likely that many people will be unhappy (at any point in time), so it becomes more difficult to discern between the legitimate complaint and the personal ones. However, trying to stop people from complaining isn't the right way to behave. Maybe it is that the OP is happy with the situation, whereas others aren't or maybe the OP never complains, but that doesn't mean he can tell other people not to complain, since all our opinions hold equal value, whether certain people in this thread like it or not. Whether we are right to make a specific complaint or not is smth that should then be discussed through facts.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
OP doesn't seem to understand the basic mechanic of this game. Just because you can put 30 cards together doesn't make it a competitive viable deck. There are other gimmicky fun decks that you can play, however there is no way to be competitive with these decks.
Meta is so refined now there are only handful of decks have a chance to succeed. Moreover meta is so polarised, for some match ups you will have no chance. Yes in card games you might have hard counters but not like this. It is not even about winning or losing. It is not fun to keep playing against the same deck over and over and over again.
Dead but dreaming
I saw many greedy deck in stream to counter jade. They just hope drop legendary every turn before 7-7,8-8,9-9 coming out. Ie greedy shaman.