Which never happens since he was "fiixed" by Blizz. When you play Yogg it will be profitable for you in 99% of times.
Well, if he is almost always profitable, then there aren't RNG problems with the card, is there? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Honestly, I think that if Yogg is simply a 5/7 body that destroys all other minions and draws 3 cards, chances are people would be significantly less salty, despite the fact that it would be even more powerful.
Personally, I do think Yogg is a little too powerful for an RNG card, but that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Yogg is the most broken card in the game. You can lose all game, play it and win the game and that happens almost always. Yogg is a "I win" card. Not to mention its complete RNG bullshit. Blizzard and Brode are retards for designing a card like that. They made HS even more RNG than it was before, look at all the new cards, its bullshit.
Except when it nukes your own board and buffs all enemy minions.
Which never happens since he was "fiixed" by Blizz. When you play Yogg it will be profitable for you in 99% of times.
They certainly didn't fix mine. I only play Yogg decks in casual now because playing the card almost always equals a loss for me. I really only play it at this point because it's fun to watch. Even when it does tend to fully heal my opponent, clear my board, mill me to the edge of death, buff my enemy's minions, and then kill itself. My main Yogg deck is Yogg/Renounce Warlock and I've gotten more wins from the random crap Renounce has given me than from Yogg.
Which never happens since he was "fiixed" by Blizz. When you play Yogg it will be profitable for you in 99% of times.
Well, if he is almost always profitable, then there aren't RNG problems with the card, is there? If Yogg is simply a 5/7 body that destroys all other minions and draws 3 cards, chances are people would be significantly less salty, despite the fact that it would be even more powerful.
Well, note that there's two groups of Yogg hate. Some people hate it's RNG nature. Others hate the fact that people have figured out how to wrangle it's RNG nature to make it stable. It's similar to how you can see hate for 'uninteractive, slow' decks (control/combo) and 'hyperfast smorc' decks (aggro/tempo).
of course sometimes you see both complaints in the same person, such as how Yogg is both "RNG BS" and "an always profitable 'win' button". It sucks because it randomly always wins you the game.
Sidenote, a 10 mana card that gives you cards, kills all other minions (5 damage to everything? at 10 mana!? No dice), and leaves itself alive.....might be good enough. Perhaps make it a 1/1 that gains +1/+2 for every minion it kills and gives you cards equal to the amount of friendly minions it kills. Thus if it's just used to take out a Rag it's a bad card, but if it takes out a full board (say a zoo deck you pushed into late game or a druid that Yogged up double CotWs) then it quickly turns into an oppressive 8/15 with the board clear.
And I swear people will hate it because I'm starting to think Blizzard might be right in believing their community actually wants a Tempo meta, no matter how much they fuss about it.
Because of the nature of HS spells Yogg will always be better for the player who plays him on average. There are spells who only affect enemy minions / characters and I think all of those are negative, there are secrets who always will get on your side (and are always positive).
I guess someone will say "Hello Cpt Obvious" now ^^ but I'm new to the game and this forum, chances are someone already has calculated some probabilities?
The aggro Warlock player purposely put himself into a position that, if countered correctly results in a loss. Had he waited it out, or perhaps kept cards in his hand as a "backup" then, he might have had a chance for a comeback. That said, Aggro works in the way of "going all in", and hoping for a victory. The player did just that, and got countered. I'm sure it didn't matter if the Druid played the RNG-less Deathwing or the Yogg-Saron with RNG, a counter is a counter. Period.
Agithore, I disagree with your response in its entirety. Your claim is that the warlock took a risk by playing "all in", but that is completely untrue, because there was no other POSSIBLE counter other than INNERVATE to incredibly lucky yogg RNG. No, your claim that the warlock played unsafe or took a risk is completely bonkers. The other player won simply due to sheer luck and NOTHING more.
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"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
One instance of a lucky Yogg is no reason to stop Hearthstone comp (or make a rant thread about it). Yes, people get lucky, yes, the warlock was playing into a board clear, yes, he got punished.
Cant believe people are really complaining about the most awesome card ever created. Yogg is one of the reasons im still playing this game.
Which means it's also the best card for being overused (thus not giving other, less powerful cards a chance at the meta) and it's also the best card for losing (since every time someone wins - then the person he played against losses) and what's annoying is the way that the loss happened.
is not like zoo is a super skill based deck either, with aoes not called Brawl, being nerfed to the ground every time blizzard has the chance to do so, zoo basically auto-wins games by just vomiting the hand, overextending and going unpunished, yogg was basically a punish cards for an overextended zoo player, in fact if aoes existed the zoo guy would've lsot the game for playing so badly
is not like zoo is a super skill based deck either, with aoes not called Brawl, being nerfed to the ground every time blizzard has the chance to do so, zoo basically auto-wins games by just vomiting the hand, overextending and going unpunished, yogg was basically a punish cards for an overextended zoo player, in fact if aoes existed the zoo guy would've lsot the game for playing so badly
What AoE cards were nerfed to the ground? The only AoE cards I remember being affected at all was the old freeze cards in beta (and they needed to be nerfed) and Lightbomb being put in Wild (which didn't actually help against zoo). That said, yes, cards that take a board and tear it to pieces are what stops Tempo decks from overwhelming things. And Druid never really had any good ones except SOMETIMES swipe. Yogg is really the first time they had a really good reset button and, even at 10 mana, the chance if it failing, and being a one-of, it's still good enough for them to use.
And I'll go ahead and put this here:
Which means it's also the best card for being overused (thus not giving other, less powerful cards a chance at the meta)
NO, It DOESN"T!
I'm SICK of this explanation being used in the wrong context. Yogg is NOT stopping other cards from being used. Yogg is a board clear/recovery tool in a class that has no board clear/recovery tools. He's not replacing ANYTHING in Yogg Druid because no other card would work to clear a board effectively. Other classes have better recovery tools which is why most classes don't actually use him (tempo mage does but really tempo mage is an unreliable meh deck that's barely tournament capable due ot it working..sometimes). Yogg disappearing isn't going to make Deathwing suddenly viable just as removing Dr. Boom didn't do a blasted thing to Baron Geddon.
Cards blocking other cards happen when they either overpower the deck they are based on (i.e. patron making most aggro decks non-viable in tournaments) or in direct replacements (if hunters decide to drop King's Elek for Grandma). Yogg doesn't replace anything Druid would've had: if anything the entire class would've probably fallen to trash tier otherwise. Someone could make an argument that other decks can't handlebeing in a meta with Yogg Druid but I can't think of a deck that could handle anything else in the meta if Yogg Druid suddenly faded away.
Now if there's a direct case of perfectly valid cards that druid could've used to not just get rolled over without yogg then present them, but don't think you can just fling the old "this card holds back other cards' without some kind of argument.
"For watching" It's fun the first 5 to 10 times... but after that it becomes simply annoying to watch (since with enough spells, the animation takes forever).
"For playing" Maybe if you play it yourself (even then, its debatable if its THAT fun), but playing against it is a drag, since most that Yogg decks do is stall and control so that they get enough spells off.
"For winning" You win literally through sheer luck instead of your skill... I would not want to win like that, imo...
This is actually wrong, most Yogg decks rely on tempo.
This is going to be an endless topic as looking as the "it's a 10 mana card, should have huge impact" exist. Both deathwings, the giants... They all cost the same and don't have an even close impact to yogg. Not remotely.
Whoever is fine with yogg should be fine with a 10-mana 1/1, battlecry: a random player wins the game.
Deathwing isn't used because it's too weak of an impact which is why he's never used. He's a perfect example of a 10 mana card that's too weak. Dragonlord is a niche card that almost no dragon deck uses since it's VERY hard to pull off properly without dying. He's interesting enough to try out but NOT a strong 10 mana card. The giants aren't EVER used for 10 mana: they would SUCK as a 10 mana card. They work because they become 4-6 mana 8/8s (or in the case of the newest giants, 0 mana 8/8s).
of the 10 mana cards we have:
Pyro does see use as a 10 mana 'i win' card in freeze mage.. sometimes.
Anyfin does about 20 damage to your face in one use and over 30 on the second use, thus why it's used as a combo card.
Mind control is too weak and see no use.
Varian puts 3 minions on the board.. and only saw use for a short while in Tempo Warrior before Dragon warrior put it back to pasture.
Faceless, I bet many who don't arena forgot it even exists,
And the Old Gods, of which C'thun does 12-20 damage as its battlecry then drops as a 12-20 THEN tend to get pulled again later from the dead to later do it again, N'Zoth lets you replay Sylvanas and Tirion and it's STILL not strong enough, and Y''Shaarj is too weak outside of brawls or maybe a turn 4 play with Barnes.
Thus the point: At 10 mana, you can't play around with a cute effect. You either win the game, actually DON'T get played at 10 mana, or you aren't worth it. And the cards that actually see use follow that mindset because that's what it means to require an entire turn's worth of mana. If anything Yogg's problem is that it stumbled on the required power level needed for a 10 drop when it was designed as a Trolden card. Future 10 mana cards will need ways to provide that much firepower without needing GvG styled randomness.
I accept that Yogg shouldn't have been the card at this slot (would've preferred N'Zoth myself) but it DOES show us all what was lacking in most of hte +8 minions and in Control in general. Make future cards a more stable version of Yogg, capable of flat out ending games at the right time (and miffing at wrong time.. just more based on how he's used than dice roll) and we'll come a long way towards having non-warrior late game decks in hearthstone.
And yes that'll mean dealing with "YEs Yes I'm going to winOMGWTFNO!!!!" moments. At least, if you actually WANT control to exist.
Last note, the difference between Yogg and '1/1 I win' is that Yogg actually sucks when used outside of dire situations. If you use him, say, against a combo deck that's about to combo you down, Yogg will tend to make things worse. He's also a dead weight when you are ahead on the board but losing or if you are VERY late in the game and near fatigue. Thus Yogg, in those times, tends to be '0/0, you lose'.
Yogg works best when the game hasn't hit near fatigue and you're behind but have options if you can just gain Tempo back. Like facing a tempo deck that's flooded the board and you have cards but are out of time. Note that ANY board wipe would also mean 'I win" since Tempo tends to die horribly once they lose tempo.
Thus why the concept of Yogg works out, because his randomness is controlable: he's best against Tempo plays and all-ins, and worse against combo, fatigue situations, and when misplayed. A less random card with those features would b awesome.
Which never happens since he was "fiixed" by Blizz. When you play Yogg it will be profitable for you in 99% of times.
Well, if he is almost always profitable, then there aren't RNG problems with the card, is there? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Honestly, I think that if Yogg is simply a 5/7 body that destroys all other minions and draws 3 cards, chances are people would be significantly less salty, despite the fact that it would be even more powerful.
Personally, I do think Yogg is a little too powerful for an RNG card, but that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Yogg does not only wipes the board but consistently leaves some secrets, draw a lot of cards and sometimes even leaves a board to his summoner (I have to agree that board is not that common tho).
Calling Hearthstone E-Sports is an insult to every other E-Sport. People won't stop complaining until Hearthstone won't be called E-Sports anymore.
I don't really understand this. I was a sponsored CS 1.6 player, main tank for a top 100 world guild in WoW, and a many-time gladiator in WoW PvP, including a few top 10 finishes.
Hearthstone's legend grind was as difficult for me (if not more) than any of these other accomplishments and requires just as much skill if you ask me. I might actually be more proud of top 50 legend in Hearthstone than I am of any of my Gladiator runs. There is so much thought and strategy in Hearthstone and even the smallest decisions can make a huge difference. Anyone who can't see the skill required is either naive or willfully ignorant in my opinion.
The correct question here is "How on Earth did Dude get a 1/1 sticky, a 2/3 Taunt, a 2/2, a 2/4 sticky, a 7/2 that will keep growing, and a 2/2 that buffs other minions all on the board by turn 5?"
THAT is what's keeping Hearthstone from being accepted competitively.
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People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Well, note that there's two groups of Yogg hate. Some people hate it's RNG nature. Others hate the fact that people have figured out how to wrangle it's RNG nature to make it stable. It's similar to how you can see hate for 'uninteractive, slow' decks (control/combo) and 'hyperfast smorc' decks (aggro/tempo).
of course sometimes you see both complaints in the same person, such as how Yogg is both "RNG BS" and "an always profitable 'win' button". It sucks because it randomly always wins you the game.
Sidenote, a 10 mana card that gives you cards, kills all other minions (5 damage to everything? at 10 mana!? No dice), and leaves itself alive.....might be good enough. Perhaps make it a 1/1 that gains +1/+2 for every minion it kills and gives you cards equal to the amount of friendly minions it kills. Thus if it's just used to take out a Rag it's a bad card, but if it takes out a full board (say a zoo deck you pushed into late game or a druid that Yogged up double CotWs) then it quickly turns into an oppressive 8/15 with the board clear.
And I swear people will hate it because I'm starting to think Blizzard might be right in believing their community actually wants a Tempo meta, no matter how much they fuss about it.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I don't think you guys get it... Hearhstone is created to be a fun game, not a competitive one. :)
Because of the nature of HS spells Yogg will always be better for the player who plays him on average. There are spells who only affect enemy minions / characters and I think all of those are negative, there are secrets who always will get on your side (and are always positive).
I guess someone will say "Hello Cpt Obvious" now ^^ but I'm new to the game and this forum, chances are someone already has calculated some probabilities?
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
One instance of a lucky Yogg is no reason to stop Hearthstone comp (or make a rant thread about it). Yes, people get lucky, yes, the warlock was playing into a board clear, yes, he got punished.
"As housecarl I am sworn to your service. I will protect you and all you own, with my life." - Lydia of Whiterun
is not like zoo is a super skill based deck either, with aoes not called Brawl, being nerfed to the ground every time blizzard has the chance to do so, zoo basically auto-wins games by just vomiting the hand, overextending and going unpunished, yogg was basically a punish cards for an overextended zoo player, in fact if aoes existed the zoo guy would've lsot the game for playing so badly
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Why do people think something involving people calling themselves "dude" and "Monsanto" should be taken seriously in the first place?
I do not mind Yogg RNG at all. I would rather lose to that then be winning a Priest / Warrior control mirror only to lose from 28 life to an OTK
I don't see the point of this thread.
Most pros consider Yogg to be too random, so most don't play it.
Where's the problem?
Everybody in this thread download Starcraft
The correct question here is "How on Earth did Dude get a 1/1 sticky, a 2/3 Taunt, a 2/2, a 2/4 sticky, a 7/2 that will keep growing, and a 2/2 that buffs other minions all on the board by turn 5?"
THAT is what's keeping Hearthstone from being accepted competitively.
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!