Look at the Vicious Syndicate report if you don't believe it. Paladin and Warlock are busted beyond belief. There are only a few deck that can handle them and those decks rely on busted nonsense like Quest Rogue. Just going face and doing literally nothing else Burn Mage, and Odd Rogue, Mind Blast Priest. Or Getting really, really, like really lucky any deck with Spiteful in the name of the deck. Voidlord forces every deck to run 2 silences and blocks most board strategies killing 90% of possible viable meta decks.
Call to Arms is busted, yah, insanely busted. Draw and play 3 cards from deck is hilariously broken. Mad Scientist draw and played one card from deck and it was insane. This is that times 3. Draw is more premium than it has ever been and this class can draw and play 3 cards with one card. While still have Divine fucking favor. How did they call that balanced without laughing their asses off. That is so far from being balanced with any other class it is ridiculous.
Kobold Librarian doesn't make me that mad. It is a shot to the face of every other class tho. The class that already had the best card draw in the game gets the best card card draw minion in the game. Again, Card Draw is so premium. Try playing Shaman. Shaman is a fucking nightmare right now. Your best access to card draw is a 0/3 for 3 that draws a card at the END of your turn. It sucks ass and it can't even draw you an out, and these motherfuckers with everything get a card they didn't even need or want. It is rude as fuck. Rude as fuck.
Naga was derpy ass thing. I assume it was to draw attention to Wild. It did that I guess. It made most people realize why playing Wild is probably not a good way to spend your time. It went on too long....who gives a shit, its wild. You can have unbalanced meta it is fine. There is not the promise of balance in Wild. There is the promise of balance in standard and when it is not balanced you shouldn't get paid because your not doing your fucking job. If Wild and Standard are unbalanced as fuck what is even the point. Why should anyone invest their time in a game that has no class balance. That forces to play a 3-5 super overpowered unbalanced decks/cards or just lose. You can't competed with 80-90% go the cards against the other 10% of busted ass cards. Why not just save yourself and us the time and money and just print fucking 10 card expansions if your not going to put any effort into balance?
Why nerf Quest Rogue again? It has it's own bad match-ups in both formats.
The point of nerfs is for power adjustment, not simply perpetuating the belief that it is good for the game to delete decks from the game when players got tired of the deck after a month. Nerfing a deck will not prevent players for asking for whatever replaces it to be nerfed as well. Should we just keep nerfing every single deck after it sees play for a month, until all that is left is the 2018 equivalent of Warsong Commander (ie trash cards that disappear from the game forever)?
I'm pretty sure no one has ever had a remotely fun game against Quest Rogue. It is, in every sense, the least interactive deck in hearthstone history. It beats control decks 100% of the time and loses to aggro 100% of the time. It is the complete opposite of skillful decision making and fun.
I'm sorry, but that is a piss poor reason to nerf something. Should we start nerfing decks and cards I personally find anything but fun to play against?
Power, not individual definitions of "fun", should be the lead factor in balancing something.
It is not an individual definition of "fun" it is a collective one. The overwhelming consensus on reddit, forums, twitch streams, is that quest rogue is the least fun deck to play against. And yes, of course cards should be changed for this unfun factor too, if this unfun aspect is in the sentiment of the majority of players which definitely is the case with quest rogue.
I will never understand this mindset some gamers have that is "Why do you have to change/nerf something because it is unfun for players to play against?"
You do realize that the intent of games is not solely eSports, right? They are still made for fun for the majority of players. Less than 0.1% of gamers will ever find success in eSports, so games with massive audiences need to be balanced for the majority of the community and that balance should be based on fairness AND fun factor.
So many stupid comments, been playing control warlock(not cubelock) since WW release. And your more or less screaming for heals with all these face decks. Then you have hunter rouge mage priest , who just do insane amount of dmg. And people wanne nerf dark pact? If i maximize the heal i got in my deck , its 34. Im considering having more , cus im loose so many matches to face/spell dmg. Cus i dont have enough heal.
Only reason why people think warlock is op , is because of carnivorous cube makes it op.
And i saw a comment about druid hero power vs warlock hero power , do you know that druid can easly get 30-40 armor with the cards he got now. Warlock would need to spend over 10 turns to get that amount of heals. And its not even armor.
Yes but when? Because meanwhile people are leaving the game. We cannot play a bad game based on something that maybe will appear in the future. In any case he forgot to mentioned divine favor and level up!. I don’t know why the want to nerf the pala upgraded hero power when they can nerf these 2 cards that are very problematic.
Only aggro pala is allowed to draw 10 cards in a turn with a spell. This is not fair. No aggro as such power level and such card draw. Divine favor should cost more than 7 mana. Like cards like sprint.
Guys, I'm not a warlock player, but am going to defend the class, because I think it doesn't need to be nerfed that hard. Have you seen the winrates of control warlock? 50.67% according to Vicious Syndicate and 49.80% according to HSreplay. Cubelock is busted, not warlock itself, and I think it's primarily because of Doomguard. Change Doomguard's text to Battlecry: Charge and the problem is solved.
Guldan Hero power should do 2 damage only. At 3, Guldan HP make Druid, Priest or Hunter whatever HP a fucking joke, and can outlast a tank up hero power Warrior in fatigue which is ridiculous . Tell me why Warlock deserves this? The Battlecry is fine though.
Call to arm should cost at least 5 mana to have any sense of balance .
Spiteful Summoner should cost 8. Or burn the spell with it use to summon the minion.
2. A nerf to Doomguard won't change a lot, because all Cubelock players will just spend ~2000 dust (which almost everyone has still got - for example I have 4500 dust and probably nothing to do with it) and play Control Warlock
3.Baku paladin isn't a problem. It's actually a tier 2 deck, so why do they even discuss about it? And how can it be changed? To summon a 2/2 Recruit?
4. Nerfing Quest Rogue second time will kill this deck. Now it's a good deck, i also think that it's balanced and cheap to craft so no one cries like "i don't have dust for it, it beats my deck, nerf it please" (hello cubelock haters - not all but at least a half of them), because everyone is able to play this deck.
5. Spiteful Summoner shoul be nerfed to 8 mana. A 4/4 minion and at least an 8/8 minion for 8 mana is still strong (and a 4/4 minion and a 12/12 can't be targeted by spells or hero powers for 8 mana is still too much)
6. I play wild only for fun, so i don't encounter many Giant Warlocks, but how many decks can deal with 53/53 on turn 5? Probably only pre-nerf Quest Rogue and even paladin with Equality+Consecration on his hand. This card should be nerfed, here's just "no discussion avaible"
7. Nerfing Gul'dan is stupid. Again, how can they do it? Maybe make his hero power "Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to a minion" or "Lifesteal. Deal 2 damage" but his battlecry is completely fine. OK, i agree that real problem of this card is it's hero power, which is a powrecreep to Paladin and Druid's DK power, and upgraded Warrior, Druid, Hunter and Mage's power.
Edit:
8. I have no idea what can they do with Possessed Lackey. Maybe increasing its cost to 6 is the best option, giving control more turn to deal with recruited Demon.
9. Call to Arms should be changed to 5 mana. Would be still powerful in Murloc Paladin, but wouldn't be played in Odd Paladin (and Even Paladin of course) because recruiting 3 minions that cost (1) will shorten your deck giving you better topdecks, but i think it wouldn't generate enough tempo to deal with potential taunts, boardclears, etc. There are better cards for 5 mana, but maybe one Call for could find place in new Odd Paladin
Why nerf Quest Rogue again? It has it's own bad match-ups in both formats.
The point of nerfs is for power adjustment, not simply perpetuating the belief that it is good for the game to delete decks from the game when players got tired of the deck after a month. Nerfing a deck will not prevent players for asking for whatever replaces it to be nerfed as well. Should we just keep nerfing every single deck after it sees play for a month, until all that is left is the 2018 equivalent of Warsong Commander (ie trash cards that disappear from the game forever)?
I'm pretty sure no one has ever had a remotely fun game against Quest Rogue. It is, in every sense, the least interactive deck in hearthstone history. It beats control decks 100% of the time and loses to aggro 100% of the time. It is the complete opposite of skillful decision making and fun.
I'm sorry, but that is a piss poor reason to nerf something. Should we start nerfing decks and cards I personally find anything but fun to play against?
Power, not individual definitions of "fun", should be the lead factor in balancing something.
No, he means that decks like Quest Rogue are unhealthy for the game. It's an auto-loss for any midrange/control deck.
1. Sunkeeper Tarim and Kobold Librarian [/card] are perfectly designed cards. They're just good, but not OP, like [card]Tar Creeper. They don't need nerfs.
2. A nerf to Doomguard won't change a lot, because all Cubelock players will just spend ~2000 dust (which almost everyone has still got - for example I have 4500 dust and probably nothing to do with it) and play Control Warlock
3.Baku paladin isn't a problem. It's actually a tier 2 deck, so why do they even discuss about it? And how can it be changed? To summon a 2/2 Recruit?
4. Nerfing Quest Rogue second time will kill this deck. Now it's a good deck, i also think that it's balanced and cheap to craft so no one cries like "i don't have dust for it, it beats my deck, nerf it please" (hello cubelock haters - not all but at least a half of them), because everyone is able to play this deck.
5. Spiteful Summoner shoul be nerfed to 8 mana. A 4/4 minion and at least an 8/8 minion for 8 mana is still strong (and a 4/4 minion and a 12/12 can't be targeted by spells or hero powers for 8 mana is still too much)
6. I play wild only for fun, so i don't encounter many Giant Warlocks, but how many decks can deal with 53/53 on turn 5? Probably only pre-nerf Quest Rogue and even paladin with Equality+Consecration on his hand. This card should be nerfed, here's just "no discussion avaible"
7. Nerfing Gul'dan is stupid. Again, how can they do it? Maybe make his hero power "Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to a minion" or "Lifesteal. Deal 2 damage" but his battlecry is completely fine. OK, i agree that real problem of this card is it's hero power, which is a powrecreep to Paladin and Druid's DK power, and upgraded Warrior, Druid, Hunter and Mage's power.
Lol paladin baku hero power changed? So thats broken but even paladin is not? K and ppl running baku aggro pally won't see any kind of dust refund? K
So kobold librarian is broken but righteous protector isn't? K
Good job Blizzard...as usual
I love how people like to discuss this game on these forums as if they actually have a clue about anything. What makes even paladin broken is not Genn's effect at all, so there is no reason why they would nerf it. What makes it broken are cards like tarim and CtA, which they did mention they are looking into.
In isolation, Baku's effect is way more powerful in paladin than Genn's, it's just that odd pally isn't able to run as many broken cards as even does.
1. Sunkeeper Tarim and Kobold Librarian [/card] are perfectly designed cards. They're just good, but not OP, like [card]Tar Creeper. They don't need nerfs.
2. A nerf to Doomguard won't change a lot, because all Cubelock players will just spend ~2000 dust (which almost everyone has still got - for example I have 4500 dust and probably nothing to do with it) and play Control Warlock
3.Baku paladin isn't a problem. It's actually a tier 2 deck, so why do they even discuss about it? And how can it be changed? To summon a 2/2 Recruit?
4. Nerfing Quest Rogue second time will kill this deck. Now it's a good deck, i also think that it's balanced and cheap to craft so no one cries like "i don't have dust for it, it beats my deck, nerf it please" (hello cubelock haters - not all but at least a half of them), because everyone is able to play this deck.
5. Spiteful Summoner shoul be nerfed to 8 mana. A 4/4 minion and at least an 8/8 minion for 8 mana is still strong (and a 4/4 minion and a 12/12 can't be targeted by spells or hero powers for 8 mana is still too much)
6. I play wild only for fun, so i don't encounter many Giant Warlocks, but how many decks can deal with 53/53 on turn 5? Probably only pre-nerf Quest Rogue and even paladin with Equality+Consecration on his hand. This card should be nerfed, here's just "no discussion avaible"
7. Nerfing Gul'dan is stupid. Again, how can they do it? Maybe make his hero power "Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to a minion" or "Lifesteal. Deal 2 damage" but his battlecry is completely fine. OK, i agree that real problem of this card is it's hero power, which is a powrecreep to Paladin and Druid's DK power, and upgraded Warrior, Druid, Hunter and Mage's power.
this
Agreed. "This" +1.
I'd add that Call to Arms should probably cost 5-mana, and Possessed Lackey should cost 6. I'd also guess that next year, we'll see Mana Wyrm and Doomguard rotated to the Hall of Fame, and a couple Wild cards will be rotated into Classic to "fill the void" for all the class cards that have been relegated over the years. Community perception notwithstanding, it's worthwhile remembering that there has been a balance patch a couple months after every release since the format split two years ago - it's always timed to coincide with the completion of the "big" HCT event that follows a release. The Summer play-downs finish at the end of this month, suggesting that a WW patch would drop shortly thereafter . . .
If you nerf Spiteful Summoner by increasing it's mana cost, atleast increase it's stats a bit as well. Don't forget that it requires you to build a suboptimal deck so you're already getting punished for that. I can agree with a 8 mana 6/5 Spiteful Summoner or something like that.
And putting the Baku Paladin hero power on the radar is def a good thing. Sure Even Paladin scores better but in my opinion that's just because they have access to two cards that are actually on the list here and because Warlock is so omnipresent. Since the Witchwood launched Odd Paladin has been the main actor in some of my most frustrating games (and I think for a lot of players who don't major in Gul'dan strategies).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Oh thank God. This meta is so bad.
Look at the Vicious Syndicate report if you don't believe it. Paladin and Warlock are busted beyond belief. There are only a few deck that can handle them and those decks rely on busted nonsense like Quest Rogue. Just going face and doing literally nothing else Burn Mage, and Odd Rogue, Mind Blast Priest. Or Getting really, really, like really lucky any deck with Spiteful in the name of the deck. Voidlord forces every deck to run 2 silences and blocks most board strategies killing 90% of possible viable meta decks.
Call to Arms is busted, yah, insanely busted. Draw and play 3 cards from deck is hilariously broken. Mad Scientist draw and played one card from deck and it was insane. This is that times 3. Draw is more premium than it has ever been and this class can draw and play 3 cards with one card. While still have Divine fucking favor. How did they call that balanced without laughing their asses off. That is so far from being balanced with any other class it is ridiculous.
Kobold Librarian doesn't make me that mad. It is a shot to the face of every other class tho. The class that already had the best card draw in the game gets the best card card draw minion in the game. Again, Card Draw is so premium. Try playing Shaman. Shaman is a fucking nightmare right now. Your best access to card draw is a 0/3 for 3 that draws a card at the END of your turn. It sucks ass and it can't even draw you an out, and these motherfuckers with everything get a card they didn't even need or want. It is rude as fuck. Rude as fuck.
Naga was derpy ass thing. I assume it was to draw attention to Wild. It did that I guess. It made most people realize why playing Wild is probably not a good way to spend your time. It went on too long....who gives a shit, its wild. You can have unbalanced meta it is fine. There is not the promise of balance in Wild. There is the promise of balance in standard and when it is not balanced you shouldn't get paid because your not doing your fucking job. If Wild and Standard are unbalanced as fuck what is even the point. Why should anyone invest their time in a game that has no class balance. That forces to play a 3-5 super overpowered unbalanced decks/cards or just lose. You can't competed with 80-90% go the cards against the other 10% of busted ass cards. Why not just save yourself and us the time and money and just print fucking 10 card expansions if your not going to put any effort into balance?
I will never understand this mindset some gamers have that is "Why do you have to change/nerf something because it is unfun for players to play against?"
You do realize that the intent of games is not solely eSports, right? They are still made for fun for the majority of players. Less than 0.1% of gamers will ever find success in eSports, so games with massive audiences need to be balanced for the majority of the community and that balance should be based on fairness AND fun factor.
You would nerf 6 warlock cards?? You are retarded!
So many stupid comments, been playing control warlock(not cubelock) since WW release. And your more or less screaming for heals with all these face decks. Then you have hunter rouge mage priest , who just do insane amount of dmg. And people wanne nerf dark pact? If i maximize the heal i got in my deck , its 34. Im considering having more , cus im loose so many matches to face/spell dmg. Cus i dont have enough heal.
Only reason why people think warlock is op , is because of carnivorous cube makes it op.
And i saw a comment about druid hero power vs warlock hero power , do you know that druid can easly get 30-40 armor with the cards he got now. Warlock would need to spend over 10 turns to get that amount of heals. And its not even armor.
I think tarim should give minions +2+2 it'll buff control pally but weaken aggro.
Yes but when? Because meanwhile people are leaving the game. We cannot play a bad game based on something that maybe will appear in the future. In any case he forgot to mentioned divine favor and level up!. I don’t know why the want to nerf the pala upgraded hero power when they can nerf these 2 cards that are very problematic.
Only aggro pala is allowed to draw 10 cards in a turn with a spell. This is not fair. No aggro as such power level and such card draw. Divine favor should cost more than 7 mana. Like cards like sprint.
That's good news.
As much as i like rogue and paladin, i hope they nerf most of the mentioned cards.
Possibly while leaving the involved archetypes alive...
Guys, I'm not a warlock player, but am going to defend the class, because I think it doesn't need to be nerfed that hard. Have you seen the winrates of control warlock? 50.67% according to Vicious Syndicate and 49.80% according to HSreplay. Cubelock is busted, not warlock itself, and I think it's primarily because of Doomguard. Change Doomguard's text to Battlecry: Charge and the problem is solved.
Guldan Hero power should do 2 damage only. At 3, Guldan HP make Druid, Priest or Hunter whatever HP a fucking joke, and can outlast a tank up hero power Warrior in fatigue which is ridiculous . Tell me why Warlock deserves this? The Battlecry is fine though.
Call to arm should cost at least 5 mana to have any sense of balance .
Spiteful Summoner should cost 8. Or burn the spell with it use to summon the minion.
NSW should be back as it was before.
1. Sunkeeper Tarim and Kobold Librarian are perfectly designed cards. They're just good, but not OP, like Tar Creeper. They don't need nerfs.
2. A nerf to Doomguard won't change a lot, because all Cubelock players will just spend ~2000 dust (which almost everyone has still got - for example I have 4500 dust and probably nothing to do with it) and play Control Warlock
3.Baku paladin isn't a problem. It's actually a tier 2 deck, so why do they even discuss about it? And how can it be changed? To summon a 2/2 Recruit?
4. Nerfing Quest Rogue second time will kill this deck. Now it's a good deck, i also think that it's balanced and cheap to craft so no one cries like "i don't have dust for it, it beats my deck, nerf it please" (hello cubelock haters - not all but at least a half of them), because everyone is able to play this deck.
5. Spiteful Summoner shoul be nerfed to 8 mana. A 4/4 minion and at least an 8/8 minion for 8 mana is still strong (and a 4/4 minion and a 12/12 can't be targeted by spells or hero powers for 8 mana is still too much)
6. I play wild only for fun, so i don't encounter many Giant Warlocks, but how many decks can deal with 53/53 on turn 5? Probably only pre-nerf Quest Rogue and even paladin with Equality+Consecration on his hand. This card should be nerfed, here's just "no discussion avaible"
7. Nerfing Gul'dan is stupid. Again, how can they do it? Maybe make his hero power "Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to a minion" or "Lifesteal. Deal 2 damage" but his battlecry is completely fine. OK, i agree that real problem of this card is it's hero power, which is a powrecreep to Paladin and Druid's DK power, and upgraded Warrior, Druid, Hunter and Mage's power.
Edit:
8. I have no idea what can they do with Possessed Lackey. Maybe increasing its cost to 6 is the best option, giving control more turn to deal with recruited Demon.
9. Call to Arms should be changed to 5 mana. Would be still powerful in Murloc Paladin, but wouldn't be played in Odd Paladin (and Even Paladin of course) because recruiting 3 minions that cost (1) will shorten your deck giving you better topdecks, but i think it wouldn't generate enough tempo to deal with potential taunts, boardclears, etc. There are better cards for 5 mana, but maybe one Call for could find place in new Odd Paladin
Don't worry, the balance patch will be live a week before the next rotation.
If you nerf Spiteful Summoner by increasing it's mana cost, atleast increase it's stats a bit as well. Don't forget that it requires you to build a suboptimal deck so you're already getting punished for that. I can agree with a 8 mana 6/5 Spiteful Summoner or something like that.
And putting the Baku Paladin hero power on the radar is def a good thing. Sure Even Paladin scores better but in my opinion that's just because they have access to two cards that are actually on the list here and because Warlock is so omnipresent. Since the Witchwood launched Odd Paladin has been the main actor in some of my most frustrating games (and I think for a lot of players who don't major in Gul'dan strategies).