decks are funny to play and nice, but unfortunately not too good for laddering. The win rate is not too high, and the games take very long. I would really love to be able to play back those nice old combos ancestral spirit + reincarnate, or as I did once, faceless on enemy sylvanas + reincarnate on my own sylvanas... If only the meta was a little slower :(
As a shaman there's only 2 choices, play same boring cookie cutter control deck like every season and have a..well almost decent laddering success or have fun in casual with crazy combo decks.
I just finished watching your video Animaker, that war was pretty bad, had few mistakes but that doesnt matter since that deck counters you. Patron war has only 2 big threats or combos that you need to deal with, patron charge and Frothing Berserker charge and your deck cant really deal with that.
Btw little tip, at the end i'd hex my own searing totem since some warriors now run both Cruel Taskmaster and Inner Rage, you had lethal next turn anyways.
i've only been playing mech versions (aggro and control) of shaman. i just feel like power mace is too good of a card to not run considering our current options
Acidic Swamp Ooze is currently a tech choice against Face Hunter and Patron Warrior, it sort of compensates the lack of early drops like creeper etc. and the lack of Defender of Argus (most hunter's damage comes from Eaglehorn Bow anyways, and if you can Ooze Death's Bite on turn 4 before warrior plays their patrons you're golden. Also paladin is kind of a bad matchup for this deck (like a druid without combo).
I feel Sylvanas Windrunner is a little out of context in here. Sure, she is a good card by herself, but does not synergize with anything as you mention. You could try putting in a Reincarnate instead of one Earth Shock or Crackle. Yet what about Nefarian? Did you consider put him in instead of Syl? - Another powerful dragon!
Sylvanas has great sinergy with Blackwing Corruptor and Fire Elemental, as long as you can slightly damage your Sylvanas on their board they allow you to steal exactly what you want :D
I would try Nefarian but the deck design is BGH-free!
I've got an Overload deck I've been trying o make work but it feels like something is missing in the current meta.....any thoughts on how I can improve it?
I went for the zip o matic over haunted creeper as it's enough of a threat people will blow any removals if they have them. I put in bloodmage thanos to help with warriors and the grim batons as well as the card draw. Other than that it's fairly normal of a deck but I just feel like it's missing something that would put me over the edge and help me win a lot more matches. I don't have a rag, sylvans or black knight.
I really like that deck, even when it will fail hard against aggro, not because it gets overwhelmed, but because they will get your hp down slowly but steadily. I have been thinking about possible matchups and plays (too much, I know, so I decided to hide it inside a "spoiler" box).
As an advice: Try to get some more card draw into it, maybe replacing Thaurissan by an Azure drake. Take out Earth Elemental (at least one) and replace it by a Belcher. Given that your early game is very scarce, I might consider the idea of replacing 1 earth shock by a vitality totem, hopefully using it to stabilize in the late game against aggro decks. And as a personal preference, I would also replace one feral spirit by a Defender of Argus - you have no drop in the 4-slot without overload.
(Here is some thinking about gameplay)
Against aggro decks, you will probably have already a minion able to kill your Zap-o-matic before you can drop it. Or, if it is not there, it will be. i.e.: against face hunter there will be a leper gnome out, or a worgen infiltrator. Against demonlock you will have a flame imp. Control decks might have dropped already a zombie chow. Any of this facts can ruin your match from the beginning.
If you manage to get the zap-o-matic down on board for one turn, then you will hit hard the enemy hero, but it's more likely you will have to use it for trading, which leaves you with nothing on board. You can of course hit face, drop your unbound followed next turn by a feral spirit. You would lose the zap-o-matic at this point, but hopefully you managed to clear one minion and hit for 3 more at the enemy's face. In this case, you would have to face the choice (either I drop feral spirit and take more dmg value out of the zap-o-matic or I drop an Unbound and say goodbye to my zap-o-matic). If you drop the feral spirit, you get overloaded... which can be fixed with a lava shock of course.
You can also use a flametongue and hit for 10 dmg (wow!) but your board will be very vulnerable to a complete clear.
Even so, the idea looks nice enough... if the zap-o-matic is not removed, which the enemy cannot afford not to. That works very well in a shaman aggressive deck. For a control deck like yours, it will start losing steam soon, as soon as you don't have any more cards to recover from a board clear, for example. Two Earth Elementals are just too much, even one. You can never count on having the lava burst when you need it, and even if you have it, you will not get inmediate value out of it (except in a few occasions). A Belcher would be a much better option than the earth elemental, imho.
The problem with the haunted creeper is the opposite: you get sticky on board, but it is not enough for clearing your enemy early drops. Paired with a flametongue it can, but again you get vulnerable to a board clear.
As a control shaman, you want to get a presence on board, stabilize quickly against aggro and gain a quick foothold against control. This deck is extremely vulnerable to aggro, you will always fall behind, losing hp bit by bit until you are dead. Against control, they will stabilize earlier than you if you manage to gain the upper hand early, and then the lack of card draw (only a MTT and Thalnos) will eventually put you behind.
Emperor Thaurissan is a card I particulary do not like in shaman, except for "miracle" shaman. Your hand is normally quite empty, and you will not get a big value out of it, as he is normally removed/silenced as soon as he falls on board. And even if he is not, reducing the cost of one or two cards will not give you a huge tempo advantage.
Now for the possible replacements, I would put in at least a Belcher. Azure Drakes are almost mandatory because of the card draw and spell power during mid-to-late game. Earth Elementals are blocking your late game: if you drop them you will have to wait another turn before playing a Fire Ele/Neptulon/Al'akir/Dr. Boom (even with lava burst), which means if the ele gets removed you will stay one turn behind. Best scenario would be: your opponent kills it with BGH and uses hero power, you kill the BGH with the lava burst and drop a fireguard destroyer. The point is, you will have more likely already dropped your fireguard as soon as it was possible (@turn 4).
One of the big kill moments is when you can keep just 1 big guy on the board, then cast Bloodlust and Windfury back to back, possibly with a Rockbiter Weapon or two. I've taken down opponents at full health on turn 7 with this deck.
A dragon shaman! The concept looks really nice: your 3 drop depending on what you have in hand (dragon or overload?). Crackle is powerful, but what about replacing it by a lava burst? it may help with your overload-heavy deck even when doing less damage (best used after a lightning storm to finish off that guy).
Also, you might replace the second defender of argus by a second flametongue, synergises better with BL as per my experience.
Hey Tony, i'v been playing with your deck a lot lately and i really like it. I added BL, gotta love turn 5 lethal. Its a really strong deck but also very very draw dependant. Sometimes i dont get any eggs or early drops before turn 6-7 so its a lost game ofc, but besides that your deck is awesome mate, tnx a lot!
Hey Tony, i'v been playing with your deck a lot lately and i really like it. I added BL, gotta love turn 5 lethal. Its a really strong deck but also very very draw dependant. Sometimes i dont get any eggs or early drops before turn 6-7 so its a lost game ofc, but besides that your deck is awesome mate, tnx a lot!
I am glad you like it :))) What did you replace for the BL finally? Al'akir? I think I will put a BL in definitely.
P.S: Yet not in place of Al'akir! he has just won a game for me against a handlock. Turn 9 Al'akir + rockbiter hitting face for 12 dmg. Unvaluable.
Thanks for the advice Tony, I modified my deck a little based off your suggestions and wanted to see what you think of it. I haven't really had time to play with it yet unfortunately but I tossed out both earth elementals (I really miss them and wanted them to work as I'm fond of them from my old crusher deck days but sadly they still just don't work in the meta) and in their place I put a defender of argus and a healbot (i'm not a huge vitality totem fan) and I got rid of emperor thaurissan and replaced him with an azure drake. That should help a bit with the card draw and the spell damage is always nice. I wasn't sure where to fit in a sludge belcher with these changes so for now it isn't in. Thoughts?
Nah i kept Al'akir, in fact i just finished a game with Al'akir + rockbiter combo heh, i removed haunted creep, i know he synergizes well with flametongue and we lack sticky minions but meh..he cant kill shit in early game without rockbiter or flametongue and if i use them without an egg to activate its not worth it.
Thanks for the advice Tony, I modified my deck a little based off your suggestions and wanted to see what you think of it. I haven't really had time to play with it yet unfortunately but I tossed out both earth elementals (I really miss them and wanted them to work as I'm fond of them from my old crusher deck days but sadly they still just don't work in the meta) and in their place I put a defender of argus and a healbot (i'm not a huge vitality totem fan) and I got rid of emperor thaurissan and replaced him with an azure drake. That should help a bit with the card draw and the spell damage is always nice. I wasn't sure where to fit in a sludge belcher with these changes so for now it isn't in. Thoughts?
The best replacement to take a sludge belcher in is the second feral spirit IMHO. I usually never need a second feral spirit, either I have to use it soon to stop aggro or late against control decks for quickly repopulating my board side.
According to my line of thoughts, feral spirit and argus take more or less the same slot, while Argus is normally more flexible during mid-game, while feral spirit can hurt because of the overload.
In that same line of thoughts, Sludge Belcher would take the same slot of the Earth Elemental (4/7 taunt with two bodies) with worse stats but stickier and without the overload downside.
After your last replacements, without the earth elementals and only one feral spirit , you can also afford staying with a single Lava Shock and putting in some early hold for aggro (Zombie Chow?) which I think is the only weak spot, but still the 2xlava shock option is not bad, thanks to Bloodmage Thalnos.
I took out the 2nd feral spirits but i'm going to keep the 2nd lava shock instead of Zombie Chow, honestly I hate the card....if it doesn't come up early on it feels like a waste to play. I'll let you know how the deck does with those changes. Thanks again!
I took out the 2nd feral spirits but i'm going to keep the 2nd lava shock instead of Zombie Chow, honestly I hate the card....if it doesn't come up early on it feels like a waste to play. I'll let you know how the deck does with those changes. Thanks again!
I like the sen'jin more. You play fireguard so you can't go fireguard > belcher > fire elemental, but you can go fireguard > sen'jin > fire ele.
Also a weapon destruction tech can help against all the face hunters and patron warrios plaguing all stages of the ladder.
What do you guys think about Reincarnate? I've been testing this card in my deck, which runs nerubian eggs and creepers.
In my opion this card could become very useful as an offensive card, so we can not only use it on your own cards, but also on the opponent's:
Some examples:
vs. Priest its a good debuff and can help you establish board control, for example vs. Deathlords.
vs. Handlock, debuff taunts (earthshock might be better in that situation)
vs freeze mage, unfreeze
vs Warrior, debuff Frothing berserker??
On the other hand we can use it on my own creatures to establish board control (eggs, creepers, boom bots) or get an extra carddraw for 2 mana when using it on thalnos. Whats your opinion about this card, viable or still too situational?
Well, its kinda unorthodox to use it on anything else but sylvanas or KT. You still get a value if you use it on an egg but...i don't know, i like your idea on how to use it on opponent's minions though. Maybe it would be viable in some kind of BL deck with eggs and creepers.
In past seasons I have used often Reincarnate. It's a good card, and it gets incredible value as mentioned when used on Sylvanas, Kel'Thuzad or even Al'Akir. Some decks run 2 and used an early one on a Nerubian Egg for quick board presence. As you mention, it is also usable on enemy minions, like the Twilight Drake or as you mention other handlock taunted guys. Yet it does not give an inmediate value unless you have lethal (you can debuff a taunting giant, but it will still be an 8/8).
The point is, what to substitute for it? A Rockbiter? It can be used also early, it's 1 less mana and I found it more useful in every situation. An earth shock? well I'd rather silence a Tirion than reincarnate him, or kill a Twilight drake for 1 mana instead of reducing its hp to 1 for 2 mana. At turn 10 I'd rather finish my opponent with Al'akir + Rockbiter which has inmediate value than reincarnate a Kel'thuzad, yet maybe in some situations it is better to do the later. Crackle? Well it's a potential 6 dmg without spell power...
So, reincarnate is good, yes, but it risks being a dead card in your hand, leading to sub-optimal use. I like the card, and I have used it extensively in the past. But it kinda needs a "dedicated" deck. In past seasons (before Undertaker nerf) I used a very productive aggro-necro-shaman, with Leper Gnomes Baron Rivendare, Feugen and Stalagg plus Sylvanas Windrunner and Kel'Thuzad.
I think these kind of decks can still see some use in mid to low ranks (from 20 to 10), but the undertaker was basic for building a strong early presence. He is too vulnerable right now.
As a shaman there's only 2 choices, play same boring cookie cutter control deck like every season and have a..well almost decent laddering success or have fun in casual with crazy combo decks.
I just finished watching your video Animaker, that war was pretty bad, had few mistakes but that doesnt matter since that deck counters you. Patron war has only 2 big threats or combos that you need to deal with, patron charge and Frothing Berserker charge and your deck cant really deal with that.
Btw little tip, at the end i'd hex my own searing totem since some warriors now run both Cruel Taskmaster and Inner Rage, you had lethal next turn anyways.
i've only been playing mech versions (aggro and control) of shaman. i just feel like power mace is too good of a card to not run considering our current options
Acidic Swamp Ooze is currently a tech choice against Face Hunter and Patron Warrior, it sort of compensates the lack of early drops like creeper etc. and the lack of Defender of Argus (most hunter's damage comes from Eaglehorn Bow anyways, and if you can Ooze Death's Bite on turn 4 before warrior plays their patrons you're golden. Also paladin is kind of a bad matchup for this deck (like a druid without combo).
I will try 1 Volcanic Drake for 1 Hungry Dragon, it could allow some intresting tempo plays.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Sylvanas has great sinergy with Blackwing Corruptor and Fire Elemental, as long as you can slightly damage your Sylvanas on their board they allow you to steal exactly what you want :D
I would try Nefarian but the deck design is BGH-free!
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I've got an Overload deck I've been trying o make work but it feels like something is missing in the current meta.....any thoughts on how I can improve it?
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#51:2;77:2;124:2;214:2;270:2;335:1;390:2;491:2;525:1;613:1;636:2;676:2;12182:1;12231:2;12292:1;14440:2;14454:1;14455:2;
I went for the zip o matic over haunted creeper as it's enough of a threat people will blow any removals if they have them. I put in bloodmage thanos to help with warriors and the grim batons as well as the card draw. Other than that it's fairly normal of a deck but I just feel like it's missing something that would put me over the edge and help me win a lot more matches. I don't have a rag, sylvans or black knight.
I really like that deck, even when it will fail hard against aggro, not because it gets overwhelmed, but because they will get your hp down slowly but steadily. I have been thinking about possible matchups and plays (too much, I know, so I decided to hide it inside a "spoiler" box).
As an advice: Try to get some more card draw into it, maybe replacing Thaurissan by an Azure drake. Take out Earth Elemental (at least one) and replace it by a Belcher. Given that your early game is very scarce, I might consider the idea of replacing 1 earth shock by a vitality totem, hopefully using it to stabilize in the late game against aggro decks. And as a personal preference, I would also replace one feral spirit by a Defender of Argus - you have no drop in the 4-slot without overload.
(Here is some thinking about gameplay)
Against aggro decks, you will probably have already a minion able to kill your Zap-o-matic before you can drop it. Or, if it is not there, it will be. i.e.: against face hunter there will be a leper gnome out, or a worgen infiltrator. Against demonlock you will have a flame imp. Control decks might have dropped already a zombie chow. Any of this facts can ruin your match from the beginning.
If you manage to get the zap-o-matic down on board for one turn, then you will hit hard the enemy hero, but it's more likely you will have to use it for trading, which leaves you with nothing on board. You can of course hit face, drop your unbound followed next turn by a feral spirit. You would lose the zap-o-matic at this point, but hopefully you managed to clear one minion and hit for 3 more at the enemy's face. In this case, you would have to face the choice (either I drop feral spirit and take more dmg value out of the zap-o-matic or I drop an Unbound and say goodbye to my zap-o-matic). If you drop the feral spirit, you get overloaded... which can be fixed with a lava shock of course.
You can also use a flametongue and hit for 10 dmg (wow!) but your board will be very vulnerable to a complete clear.
Even so, the idea looks nice enough... if the zap-o-matic is not removed, which the enemy cannot afford not to. That works very well in a shaman aggressive deck. For a control deck like yours, it will start losing steam soon, as soon as you don't have any more cards to recover from a board clear, for example. Two Earth Elementals are just too much, even one. You can never count on having the lava burst when you need it, and even if you have it, you will not get inmediate value out of it (except in a few occasions). A Belcher would be a much better option than the earth elemental, imho.
The problem with the haunted creeper is the opposite: you get sticky on board, but it is not enough for clearing your enemy early drops. Paired with a flametongue it can, but again you get vulnerable to a board clear.
As a control shaman, you want to get a presence on board, stabilize quickly against aggro and gain a quick foothold against control. This deck is extremely vulnerable to aggro, you will always fall behind, losing hp bit by bit until you are dead. Against control, they will stabilize earlier than you if you manage to gain the upper hand early, and then the lack of card draw (only a MTT and Thalnos) will eventually put you behind.
Emperor Thaurissan is a card I particulary do not like in shaman, except for "miracle" shaman. Your hand is normally quite empty, and you will not get a big value out of it, as he is normally removed/silenced as soon as he falls on board. And even if he is not, reducing the cost of one or two cards will not give you a huge tempo advantage.
Now for the possible replacements, I would put in at least a Belcher. Azure Drakes are almost mandatory because of the card draw and spell power during mid-to-late game. Earth Elementals are blocking your late game: if you drop them you will have to wait another turn before playing a Fire Ele/Neptulon/Al'akir/Dr. Boom (even with lava burst), which means if the ele gets removed you will stay one turn behind. Best scenario would be: your opponent kills it with BGH and uses hero power, you kill the BGH with the lava burst and drop a fireguard destroyer. The point is, you will have more likely already dropped your fireguard as soon as it was possible (@turn 4).
Golden Shaman, Paladin and Mage experimentalist: http://twitch.tv/red_tony
A dragon shaman! The concept looks really nice: your 3 drop depending on what you have in hand (dragon or overload?). Crackle is powerful, but what about replacing it by a lava burst? it may help with your overload-heavy deck even when doing less damage (best used after a lightning storm to finish off that guy).
Also, you might replace the second defender of argus by a second flametongue, synergises better with BL as per my experience.
But in the overall, a very beautiful deck :)
Golden Shaman, Paladin and Mage experimentalist: http://twitch.tv/red_tony
Hey Tony, i'v been playing with your deck a lot lately and i really like it. I added BL, gotta love turn 5 lethal. Its a really strong deck but also very very draw dependant. Sometimes i dont get any eggs or early drops before turn 6-7 so its a lost game ofc, but besides that your deck is awesome mate, tnx a lot!
I am glad you like it :))) What did you replace for the BL finally? Al'akir? I think I will put a BL in definitely.
P.S: Yet not in place of Al'akir! he has just won a game for me against a handlock. Turn 9 Al'akir + rockbiter hitting face for 12 dmg. Unvaluable.
Golden Shaman, Paladin and Mage experimentalist: http://twitch.tv/red_tony
Thanks for the advice Tony, I modified my deck a little based off your suggestions and wanted to see what you think of it. I haven't really had time to play with it yet unfortunately but I tossed out both earth elementals (I really miss them and wanted them to work as I'm fond of them from my old crusher deck days but sadly they still just don't work in the meta) and in their place I put a defender of argus and a healbot (i'm not a huge vitality totem fan) and I got rid of emperor thaurissan and replaced him with an azure drake. That should help a bit with the card draw and the spell damage is always nice. I wasn't sure where to fit in a sludge belcher with these changes so for now it isn't in. Thoughts?
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#51:2;77:2;214:2;270:2;280:1;335:1;390:2;491:2;525:1;542:1;613:1;636:2;676:2;12182:1;12227:1;12231:2;12292:1;14440:2;14455:2;
Nah i kept Al'akir, in fact i just finished a game with Al'akir + rockbiter combo heh, i removed haunted creep, i know he synergizes well with flametongue and we lack sticky minions but meh..he cant kill shit in early game without rockbiter or flametongue and if i use them without an egg to activate its not worth it.
The best replacement to take a sludge belcher in is the second feral spirit IMHO. I usually never need a second feral spirit, either I have to use it soon to stop aggro or late against control decks for quickly repopulating my board side.
According to my line of thoughts, feral spirit and argus take more or less the same slot, while Argus is normally more flexible during mid-game, while feral spirit can hurt because of the overload.
In that same line of thoughts, Sludge Belcher would take the same slot of the Earth Elemental (4/7 taunt with two bodies) with worse stats but stickier and without the overload downside.
After your last replacements, without the earth elementals and only one feral spirit , you can also afford staying with a single Lava Shock and putting in some early hold for aggro (Zombie Chow?) which I think is the only weak spot, but still the 2xlava shock option is not bad, thanks to Bloodmage Thalnos.
Golden Shaman, Paladin and Mage experimentalist: http://twitch.tv/red_tony
I took out the 2nd feral spirits but i'm going to keep the 2nd lava shock instead of Zombie Chow, honestly I hate the card....if it doesn't come up early on it feels like a waste to play. I'll let you know how the deck does with those changes. Thanks again!
I like the sen'jin more. You play fireguard so you can't go fireguard > belcher > fire elemental, but you can go fireguard > sen'jin > fire ele.
Also a weapon destruction tech can help against all the face hunters and patron warrios plaguing all stages of the ladder.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
What do you guys think about Reincarnate? I've been testing this card in my deck, which runs nerubian eggs and creepers.
In my opion this card could become very useful as an offensive card, so we can not only use it on your own cards, but also on the opponent's:
Some examples:
vs. Priest its a good debuff and can help you establish board control, for example vs. Deathlords.
vs. Handlock, debuff taunts (earthshock might be better in that situation)
vs freeze mage, unfreeze
vs Warrior, debuff Frothing berserker??
On the other hand we can use it on my own creatures to establish board control (eggs, creepers, boom bots) or get an extra carddraw for 2 mana when using it on thalnos. Whats your opinion about this card, viable or still too situational?
Well, its kinda unorthodox to use it on anything else but sylvanas or KT. You still get a value if you use it on an egg but...i don't know, i like your idea on how to use it on opponent's minions though. Maybe it would be viable in some kind of BL deck with eggs and creepers.
in beta i would play Ancestral Healing with The Black Knight to help with removal.
In past seasons I have used often Reincarnate. It's a good card, and it gets incredible value as mentioned when used on Sylvanas, Kel'Thuzad or even Al'Akir. Some decks run 2 and used an early one on a Nerubian Egg for quick board presence. As you mention, it is also usable on enemy minions, like the Twilight Drake or as you mention other handlock taunted guys. Yet it does not give an inmediate value unless you have lethal (you can debuff a taunting giant, but it will still be an 8/8).
The point is, what to substitute for it? A Rockbiter? It can be used also early, it's 1 less mana and I found it more useful in every situation. An earth shock? well I'd rather silence a Tirion than reincarnate him, or kill a Twilight drake for 1 mana instead of reducing its hp to 1 for 2 mana. At turn 10 I'd rather finish my opponent with Al'akir + Rockbiter which has inmediate value than reincarnate a Kel'thuzad, yet maybe in some situations it is better to do the later. Crackle? Well it's a potential 6 dmg without spell power...
So, reincarnate is good, yes, but it risks being a dead card in your hand, leading to sub-optimal use. I like the card, and I have used it extensively in the past. But it kinda needs a "dedicated" deck. In past seasons (before Undertaker nerf) I used a very productive aggro-necro-shaman, with Leper Gnomes Baron Rivendare, Feugen and Stalagg plus Sylvanas Windrunner and Kel'Thuzad.
I think these kind of decks can still see some use in mid to low ranks (from 20 to 10), but the undertaker was basic for building a strong early presence. He is too vulnerable right now.
Golden Shaman, Paladin and Mage experimentalist: http://twitch.tv/red_tony
3 wins away from golden shaman. Cant get there fast enough. Using egg shaman atm to close it out.