This is both good and bad, as a person who has been playing shaman for while now and i own all the shaman cards, i can safely say: Shaman is a f*cking slothmachine yet again, the most rng dependent deck is back on the top, which is only good because shaman has been sh*t for a while after galagrond.
I have been paying tickutus warlock because it does what you want it to do, evolve shaman is like having 15 Trick Totem 's in your deck and see if you get high rolls or low rolls, playing evolve decks can be fun but.... THIS IS JUST BAD GAME DESIGN
The class has been super bad in Standard for like a year or so, original Galakrond Shaman was the only good thing. Shamanstone is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in the past years. I don't really think that in the past DH/Res Priest/Hunter flood actually made someone so vocal as the comunity is right now. I think we rather need to fix the class identity and make actually some quality decks and cards to play with, not Evolve and terrible Overload mechanics.
If they nerf it, then R. I. P. Shaman again in Standard for like a year.
The class has been super bad in Standard for like a year or so, original Galakrond Shaman was the only good thing. Shamanstone is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in the past years. I don't really think that in the past DH/Res Priest/Hunter flood actually made someone so vocal as the comunity is right now. I think we rather need to fix the class identity and make actually some quality decks and cards to play with, not Evolve and terrible Overload mechanics.
If they nerf it, then R. I. P. Shaman again in Standard for like a year.
You think people are more vocal about shaman than they were about DH? What rock have you been living under?? People are still crying about priest and continue to do so even when it makes no impact on the meta. These are two classes that will always be complained about. People seem to have a hearthstone form of PTSD when it comes to these classes, the shaman complaints aren't even close....
Honestly, the deck seems fairly consistent to me. Yeah, there are better and worse evolves. But generally speaking you're going to be in a very good position when you cheat out a bunch of 4-cost minions early in the game. Not to mention tutoring your win condition and pumping out face damage via the weapon.
Reminds me of the Spiteful Summoner days. I mean, yeah, it's nice to roll a Tyrantus. But when you're playing a 4/4 + a 10 mana minion on turn 6 it's probably gonna put you in the driver's seat regardless. The average outcome just outpaces what any other class can handle at that point in the game.
see if you get high rolls or low rolls, playing evolve decks can be fun but.... THIS IS JUST BAD GAME DESIGN
It's fun, but it's also bad game design? The game is designed to be fun. Thus, good game design, right?
If all we ever have to expect from a game is Chillwind Yeti bumping into another Chillwind Yeti and then playing another card that trades into another minion until we run out of minions in our decks... are we having fun?
I see a lot of people complain about RNG, but I really think that it's RNG that also makes the game exciting, I mean, you've said it yourself there, it is fun. The chance you have to get a highroll is always there. The chance you have to discover the perfect card is there.
Not knowing the definitive outcome of a game before it starts, and then adapting to what happens next is fun.
Biggest problem with Shaman is lightning bloom. This is a stupid card that should never have been printed. Mana cheating in general is a huge problem. Allowing them to cheat out the weapon on turn 3 with a then zero cost minion (dread corsair) is just dumb. If they draw the nuts most games are over on turn 3.
see if you get high rolls or low rolls, playing evolve decks can be fun but.... THIS IS JUST BAD GAME DESIGN
It's fun, but it's also bad game design? The game is designed to be fun. Thus, good game design, right?
If all we ever have to expect from a game is Chillwind Yeti bumping into another Chillwind Yeti and then playing another card that trades into another minion until we run out of minions in our decks... are we having fun?
I see a lot of people complain about RNG, but I really think that it's RNG that also makes the game exciting, I mean, you've said it yourself there, it is fun. The chance you have to get a highroll is always there. The chance you have to discover the perfect card is there.
Not knowing the definitive outcome of a game before it starts, and then adapting to what happens next is fun.
Is this an unpopular opinion around here?
I think it is unpopular and I agree with you, I don't get why. I've done the climb through the newbie ranks on an alt server and played a lot of demon hunter mirrors. Very little rng outside of card draw and my christ it makes for a boooooring game. I've sacked the account off now. Having to read the game, adapt and make decisions on the fly is what makes the game fun to me.
My issue with evolve shaman isn't the rng, that's fine. It's just it comes a turn or two too early. If they have bloom or the coin you can lose by turn 3 and that's not particularly fun. Maybe tweaking the knuckles to costing 6 and 3 attack would make it so you can actually react or mount a comeback.
As it is, I find I'm just really hoping they draw badly so I at least have a chance. I'm surprised it wasn't touched at all in the nerfs.
The problem isn’t the complaining, it’s the numbers. Look at the last VS numbers before the nerf. Shaman was still strong, it was just poorly matched against aggro DH and face hunter. After the nerf to voracious reader, the bad matchups for evolve shaman went away and now it is uncontested. The problems with all of this is the meta has really relied on two cards. Voracious reader and boggspine knuckles (or cagematch custodian). Control decks lack what they need to deal with either of these aggro strategies of board flood and see what sticks. I don’t think The voracious reader nerf was the best course of action, the remedy would have been better board resets. Priest lost mass hysteria and now has two shitty aoe spells under 7 mana. Warrior lost warpath and now has to rely heavily on brawl (which may be the best evergreen card in the game). Poor warlock went from having defile and lord Godfrey to crazed netherwing, which is conditional, not a guaranteed clear and damages the hero.
It’s really about balance and hearthstone has some busted cards that they give counters to. This whole year has been demon hunter centric and to let their new class shine, they deprived control classes of the counters they needed for it. Now that demon hunter has gotten nerfed, it’s shaman’s turn to go as wide as possible with little risk.
I don't have a problem with this deck, it is way less opressive than midrange shaman or prenerf Galakrond era but something bugs me with this class, never in HS history shaman have a normal presence in the ladder, or is completely gone at a point you start to forgot the class even exist or infested at the point of vomit inducing.
I don't have a problem with this deck, it is way less opressive than midrange shaman or prenerf Galakrond era but something bugs me with this class, never in HS history shaman have a normal presence in the ladder, or is completely gone at a point you start to forgot the class even exist or infested at the point of vomit inducing.
Why shaman never hit the mid ground?
You probably forgot about Murloc Shaman or Control Shaman (used by Hunterace to win worlds) during Rise of Shadows or Token Shaman during Un'goro. Even Shaman was alright too.
I don't have a problem with this deck, it is way less opressive than midrange shaman or prenerf Galakrond era but something bugs me with this class, never in HS history shaman have a normal presence in the ladder, or is completely gone at a point you start to forgot the class even exist or infested at the point of vomit inducing.
Why shaman never hit the mid ground?
That’s easy to explain, shaman is with priest and mage in the bad classic set club. Hunter and rogue has always been meta relevant because they have great classic sets. Shaman needs strong cards printed at each set release because they have overload cards that are just horrible. Look at lightning storm, it gets used quite often despite being powercreeped by cards without an overload mechanic. To truly fix shaman, they need a classic set overhaul that includes a new mechanic.
Totem shaman is a completely fine deck which will continue to be viable even if this awful Boggspine Knuckles bullshit is allowed to continue.
Yes, you have to keep the board cleared, but the Shaman player should can also plan their bullshit turns ahead so counterplay is almost impossible.
I think I have had an almost 50% winrate against them playing clown/guardian druid. After a while, I realized going fair is NOT the way to beat that deck, it is all a race of who can do their stupid swing turns quicker.
My last game, we both cleared AND built boards several turns in a row until he had me up the ropes. Then, I got a summoned Kalecgos for 0-mana Survival of the Fittest into broom-clowns, so much justice!
This is both good and bad, as a person who has been playing shaman for while now and i own all the shaman cards, i can safely say:
Shaman is a f*cking slothmachine yet again, the most rng dependent deck is back on the top, which is only good because shaman has been sh*t for a while after galagrond.
I have been paying tickutus warlock because it does what you want it to do, evolve shaman is like having 15 Trick Totem 's in your deck and see if you get high rolls or low rolls, playing evolve decks can be fun but.... THIS IS JUST BAD GAME DESIGN
In the next balance patch they will make Shaman unplayable again, just like what happened during Galakrond's dominance.
The class has been super bad in Standard for like a year or so, original Galakrond Shaman was the only good thing. Shamanstone is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in the past years. I don't really think that in the past DH/Res Priest/Hunter flood actually made someone so vocal as the comunity is right now. I think we rather need to fix the class identity and make actually some quality decks and cards to play with, not Evolve and terrible Overload mechanics.
If they nerf it, then R. I. P. Shaman again in Standard for like a year.
You think people are more vocal about shaman than they were about DH? What rock have you been living under?? People are still crying about priest and continue to do so even when it makes no impact on the meta. These are two classes that will always be complained about. People seem to have a hearthstone form of PTSD when it comes to these classes, the shaman complaints aren't even close....
Honestly, the deck seems fairly consistent to me. Yeah, there are better and worse evolves. But generally speaking you're going to be in a very good position when you cheat out a bunch of 4-cost minions early in the game. Not to mention tutoring your win condition and pumping out face damage via the weapon.
Reminds me of the Spiteful Summoner days. I mean, yeah, it's nice to roll a Tyrantus. But when you're playing a 4/4 + a 10 mana minion on turn 6 it's probably gonna put you in the driver's seat regardless. The average outcome just outpaces what any other class can handle at that point in the game.
It's fun, but it's also bad game design? The game is designed to be fun. Thus, good game design, right?
If all we ever have to expect from a game is Chillwind Yeti bumping into another Chillwind Yeti and then playing another card that trades into another minion until we run out of minions in our decks... are we having fun?
I see a lot of people complain about RNG, but I really think that it's RNG that also makes the game exciting, I mean, you've said it yourself there, it is fun. The chance you have to get a highroll is always there. The chance you have to discover the perfect card is there.
Not knowing the definitive outcome of a game before it starts, and then adapting to what happens next is fun.
Is this an unpopular opinion around here?
Biggest problem with Shaman is lightning bloom. This is a stupid card that should never have been printed. Mana cheating in general is a huge problem. Allowing them to cheat out the weapon on turn 3 with a then zero cost minion (dread corsair) is just dumb. If they draw the nuts most games are over on turn 3.
Gotta keep that board clear yo. (And save a good aoe vs smarter players)
Galavant Animation
Game design will never be good as long as there are so many RNG cards.
I think it is unpopular and I agree with you, I don't get why. I've done the climb through the newbie ranks on an alt server and played a lot of demon hunter mirrors. Very little rng outside of card draw and my christ it makes for a boooooring game. I've sacked the account off now. Having to read the game, adapt and make decisions on the fly is what makes the game fun to me.
My issue with evolve shaman isn't the rng, that's fine. It's just it comes a turn or two too early. If they have bloom or the coin you can lose by turn 3 and that's not particularly fun. Maybe tweaking the knuckles to costing 6 and 3 attack would make it so you can actually react or mount a comeback.
As it is, I find I'm just really hoping they draw badly so I at least have a chance. I'm surprised it wasn't touched at all in the nerfs.
I don't get why people complain so much about this deck...
All my decks have more or less 50% of chance against them when I don't draw my pirate tech and almost 100% winrate when I draw it.
If this deck REALLY piss you just put x2 pirate 4/4 who stole the weapon and you are ready to go.
Much, much worse was DH you can't do anything about it.
You've literally just described exactly why the deck is annoying, you've answered your own question.
The problem isn’t the complaining, it’s the numbers. Look at the last VS numbers before the nerf. Shaman was still strong, it was just poorly matched against aggro DH and face hunter. After the nerf to voracious reader, the bad matchups for evolve shaman went away and now it is uncontested. The problems with all of this is the meta has really relied on two cards. Voracious reader and boggspine knuckles (or cagematch custodian). Control decks lack what they need to deal with either of these aggro strategies of board flood and see what sticks. I don’t think The voracious reader nerf was the best course of action, the remedy would have been better board resets. Priest lost mass hysteria and now has two shitty aoe spells under 7 mana. Warrior lost warpath and now has to rely heavily on brawl (which may be the best evergreen card in the game). Poor warlock went from having defile and lord Godfrey to crazed netherwing, which is conditional, not a guaranteed clear and damages the hero.
It’s really about balance and hearthstone has some busted cards that they give counters to. This whole year has been demon hunter centric and to let their new class shine, they deprived control classes of the counters they needed for it. Now that demon hunter has gotten nerfed, it’s shaman’s turn to go as wide as possible with little risk.
Sucks when you play Shaman class 7 times in a row and every one is running the same deck.
Shamanstone = RNG Stone with 63% winrate.
Best Cardgame ever.
They should nerf the weapon so it's 3 attack. That way Shaman can't play the weapon AND get the free minions on the same turn (Dread Corsair.)
I don't have a problem with this deck, it is way less opressive than midrange shaman or prenerf Galakrond era but something bugs me with this class, never in HS history shaman have a normal presence in the ladder, or is completely gone at a point you start to forgot the class even exist or infested at the point of vomit inducing.
Why shaman never hit the mid ground?
You probably forgot about Murloc Shaman or Control Shaman (used by Hunterace to win worlds) during Rise of Shadows or Token Shaman during Un'goro. Even Shaman was alright too.
That’s easy to explain, shaman is with priest and mage in the bad classic set club. Hunter and rogue has always been meta relevant because they have great classic sets. Shaman needs strong cards printed at each set release because they have overload cards that are just horrible. Look at lightning storm, it gets used quite often despite being powercreeped by cards without an overload mechanic. To truly fix shaman, they need a classic set overhaul that includes a new mechanic.
Totem shaman is a completely fine deck which will continue to be viable even if this awful Boggspine Knuckles bullshit is allowed to continue.
Yes, you have to keep the board cleared, but the Shaman player should can also plan their bullshit turns ahead so counterplay is almost impossible.
I think I have had an almost 50% winrate against them playing clown/guardian druid. After a while, I realized going fair is NOT the way to beat that deck, it is all a race of who can do their stupid swing turns quicker.
My last game, we both cleared AND built boards several turns in a row until he had me up the ropes. Then, I got a summoned Kalecgos for 0-mana Survival of the Fittest into broom-clowns, so much justice!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide