I can see where you are coming from but that is far too idealistic. People want to win, especially in Ranked where the, you know, rank matters.
There are also gradients, if someone is running top meta decks to pwn on noobs at rank 10-8S then they are an asshole undoubtedly. If they are running top meta decks in Platinum-Diamond... well that is what you signed up for if you want that rank. Top, competitive, play.
I will grant you things are kind of nuts now. I was facing mostly meta decks in 5-1 Silver last season, Gold was overwhelmingly meta decks, not sure if I saw any which were not. It is not easy to tell ofc but the weirdest deck I saw was full murloc paladin somewhere in Plat-Diamond and I am sure that is not such a weird deck and probably a T3 metadeck. (This is all speaking last season btw).
It is just how it's always going to be, people will be looking for ways to win most and those players will float to the top of the pile inevitably. You can't kill netdecking unless you kill deckbuilding, which is an idea I toyed with with my Preconstructed Mode, you can find it a few pages deep on this forum if you are curious.
Anyhow my advice to you if you want to enjoy fun homebrew decks without getting annihilated, rank tank. Try to keep your rank as low as possible, or just play Casual after intentionally sinking your MMR. You will eventually find a place where your fun decks can win, and that is probably the home for you. Wanting to change the nature of high tiers of Ranked is not happening.
Integrity, honor, sportive spirit, courageous, passion for the game, personal touching...
These values are long lost in a distant past with very few exceptions like me and the OP, now with the internet and other facilities an entire generation degenerates completely into lazyness, braindead copy&paste and the lack of any self improvement auto critique.
Sad, just sad.
exactly my brother! That is the real pandemic going on in western society.
I agree with op insofar as I really enjoy Hearthstone when I play my own decks, and I have a weird syndrome that makes me play whatever is the dumpster class of the moment, unable to ever take any satisfaction in winning with busted decks and overpowered cards.
I also can't help but rage at times at my netdecking opponents doing unfair shit turn after turn, and can't help but to have a sense of integrity using fair cards and having my shaman draw engine have me draw almost as many cards as x2 Refreshing Spring water and x2 Cram session.
However, I don't think that my enjoyment comes from the sense of integrity I get. That sense of integrity is bullshit. I like winning like anyone else. The truth is I just like being the underdog. And the satisfaction I get of winning 1 out of 3 games against meta decks is far superior to the satisfaction I would get from 2 out 3 wins with tier 1 lists.
Because of this, I personally want to play against meta decks because the kick I get is taking down with my own off-meta creation. And I want to know how good my home-brew deck is against the field, against the best decks in the field, not against some idiot like me playing weak decks.
I maybe wrong, but I suspect that op might actually want other players to play meta decks. Maybe to feel morally superior - which would be dumb, but some are like that, I know I tend to be. But maybe to actually know how good your own deck is, and to sometimes win as the underdog - which isn't dumb but should make you stop from criticizing other players from playing the best decks.
TLDR : "Where is the challenge in playing decks that are supposed to win ?" Indeed, but where is the challenge playing against decks that aren't supposed to win ?
I agree with op insofar as I really enjoy Hearthstone when I play my own decks, and I have a weird syndrome that makes me play whatever is the dumpster class of the moment, unable to ever take any satisfaction in winning with busted decks and overpowered cards.
I also can't help but rage at times at my netdecking opponents doing unfair shit turn after turn, and can't help but to have a sense of integrity using fair cards and having my shaman draw engine have me draw almost as many cards as x2 Refreshing Spring water and x2 Cram session.
However, I don't think that my enjoyment comes from the sense of integrity I get. That sense of integrity is bullshit. I like winning like anyone else. The truth is I just like being the underdog. And the satisfaction I get of winning 1 out of 3 games against meta decks is far superior to the satisfaction I would get from 2 out 3 wins with tier 1 lists.
Because of this, I personally want to play against meta decks because the kick I get is taking down with my own off-meta creation. And I want to know how good my home-brew deck is against the field, against the best decks in the field, not against some idiot like me playing weak decks.
I maybe wrong, but I suspect that op might actually want other players to play meta decks. Maybe to feel morally superior - which would be dumb, but some are like that, I know I tend to be. But maybe to actually know how good your own deck is, and to sometimes win as the underdog - which isn't dumb but should make you stop from criticizing other players from playing the best decks.
TLDR : "Where is the challenge in playing decks that are supposed to win ?" Indeed, but where is the challenge playing against decks that aren't supposed to win ?
Well said!! I am with you 100% on the satisfaction of winning that 1 game of 3 with my own creation!! over winning with some net deck.
The integrity aspect for myself is just built into always routing for the underdog, and I too take that role willingly. I was preaching , but with good intentions, trying to maybe get someone to think about it a little bit.
Any system of control/rules, like a game, requires the participants to willingly play by the rules. So if nobody played a broken deck, Blizzard would notice that as well. I also know that will never happen. LOL But maybe 1 or 2 people might just cue up something else besides Mage after reading this.
I’ve been a Mage player since Goblins and Gnomes (my first deck was Mech Mage), and I don’t intend to quit anytime soon. I have loved All Spell Mage since it came out and now that it’s finally competitive, I’m thrilled. Even without Lunacy, it’s really good.
Also, integrity is being true to yourself, so that’s what I’m doing.
OP, we can easily turn this back on you. Where is your integrity making a SALT thread, outside of the official board SALT thread the week of a new expac.
I don't even like this deck, (I don't like random decks) I just hate the week one whining. It's not good for the game.
I agree with op insofar as I really enjoy Hearthstone when I play my own decks, and I have a weird syndrome that makes me play whatever is the dumpster class of the moment, unable to ever take any satisfaction in winning with busted decks and overpowered cards.
I also can't help but rage at times at my netdecking opponents doing unfair shit turn after turn, and can't help but to have a sense of integrity using fair cards and having my shaman draw engine have me draw almost as many cards as x2 Refreshing Spring water and x2 Cram session.
However, I don't think that my enjoyment comes from the sense of integrity I get. That sense of integrity is bullshit. I like winning like anyone else. The truth is I just like being the underdog. And the satisfaction I get of winning 1 out of 3 games against meta decks is far superior to the satisfaction I would get from 2 out 3 wins with tier 1 lists.
Because of this, I personally want to play against meta decks because the kick I get is taking down with my own off-meta creation. And I want to know how good my home-brew deck is against the field, against the best decks in the field, not against some idiot like me playing weak decks.
I maybe wrong, but I suspect that op might actually want other players to play meta decks. Maybe to feel morally superior - which would be dumb, but some are like that, I know I tend to be. But maybe to actually know how good your own deck is, and to sometimes win as the underdog - which isn't dumb but should make you stop from criticizing other players from playing the best decks.
TLDR : "Where is the challenge in playing decks that are supposed to win ?" Indeed, but where is the challenge playing against decks that aren't supposed to win ?
Well said!! I am with you 100% on the satisfaction of winning that 1 game of 3 with my own creation!! over winning with some net deck.
The integrity aspect for myself is just built into always routing for the underdog, and I too take that role willingly. I was preaching , but with good intentions, trying to maybe get someone to think about it a little bit.
Any system of control/rules, like a game, requires the participants to willingly play by the rules. So if nobody played a broken deck, Blizzard would notice that as well. I also know that will never happen. LOL But maybe 1 or 2 people might just cue up something else besides Mage after reading this.
Danton I’m the same way. I loved deck of Lunacy (before the barrens set) but now everyone plays it so I challenge myself to find the non popular classes or lowest win rate classes and see what I can create to win with as the underdog.
You need to understand that some people have only games in life, and winning in those games is the only achievement they could ever reach in life, so tryharding with the best deck to win give them some sense of accomplishment they would never have otherwise.
I’ll take no minion mags over these POS pen flinger or tick decks. im having a blast with kaz mage and weapon rogue shreds the no minion mage but it’s just disgusting playing toolbag paladins whipping libra pen Libra pen
Gosh, this is an unfortunate thread. I'm sorry, but in a competitive setting like a Ranked Mode, people can and will take what routes are available to them to win if that's what's important to them. You shouldn't be establishing moral positives to your own preferences, nor should you apply immorality to other people's preferences. That is - self evidently - not a good thing to do.
Also, there IS more to Ranked than getting Legend or a positive winrate. Some people are grinding wins for 500-1000 Win Hero Portraits. Some people have limited amounts of time to play the game, and are afraid of missing out later on when it comes to the season pass, so they play as much as they can with a deck that is guaranteed to win games so they won't miss out on rewards. There's no ethical throughline here, you're just refusing to take a perspective other than your own because you've decided that what you think/do is the morally right thing.
Probably because integrity has a definition, and playing with the best deck in a card game doesn't relate to it.
Your story about the archery competition was idiotic, by the way. If someone wants to test their skills against a particular competitor, and when that competitor's equipment malfunctions, he holds off on competing until his rival can compete, that's a fine and dandy personal choice, but not related to integrity.
Integrity would come into play if your equipment manager approaches you to let you know he cut opponent's bow string before the match.
Integrity might likewise come into play in hearthstone if the opponent's screen bugged out at a tournament, and the non-bugged player accepted a draw or a restart of the match due to unforeseen glitches causing a match to be decided by factors outside the game's parameters.
The difference, if there's still some confusion, is between either deliberately or accidentally obtained advantages being refused and a completely equal playing field where every player is free to play whatever deck they like. You can't even bring into play the pay to win consideration in this case, as Spell Mage is currently one of the cheaper meta decks to craft.
Something tells me the question was rhetorical, but there's your answer nonetheless.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
it's not people fault,the devs should make the game enjoyable and work for not havin a broken deck like that,c'mon there are thousand of children and just as many morons who don't give a penguin about the fun u'd like to have,what do you expect.
tonight i faced almost only broken mages.but just the fact that deck exists means you gonna massively face it till the nerfs.
expecting something different make you an utopian,wich is not good in the world we live in.
the good new is it's just a game,things in rl can get much worse.change yourself not the others or you gonna get a lot of disappoinments.end of paranoid comment.rofl
it'2 30 am in italy and i tried my best,was not enough of course,after all that lunacy mages think it's prolly better goin to sleep!cheers and sorry if i murdered your native language!god may have mercy.
I think everything that playerbase is doing is completely natural. the integrity, in terms of OP described cannot be applied to a game with millions of players and limited resources. where winning player gets awarded much more, and people dont even know who their opponents are (obviously) (and helping people wont make you feel that great in that regard), therefore everyone tends to only care about winning. and since a single game can last for hours, the pace of winning gets even more important. imagine a meta where very slow decks have 65+ % winrate, and aggro decks only having 52% winrate. I would say that people would still play aggro decks since games are faster, because the logic is simple, you either win fast or you lose fast. so when people say aggro decks dont have integrity, consider this fact.
its like saying people to use swords in wars instead of guns, because using a sword requires more skill and in general the war would be more "interactive". In reality, everyone will use a gun, or whatever is the most effective. This is like a rule of nature.
"Please don't use decks with the highest winrate when the objective of ladder is to win!"
Cancel culture seeping into video games, great.
Sad, right? Same culture that came after 2000's years - doesn't matter if win or lose, the important is to participate. Yeah! No winners anymore, only participants like robots with random programation. Losers should be included too with winners, no ladder anymore, just anarchy please. Thanks.
It's particularly galling now, since the deck is 30-40% of the field, but the most broken deck in the format is always the most popular. I don't know why people enjoy playing dumb, broken decks, but they do. Oh well.
Just stop playing standard until the nerfs hit. They're apparently going to be announced early next week.
Mage is my main class and the only one I’ve played enough in ranked to have a golden portrait. I was playing spell mage the day it was created as an archetype. I wouldn’t stop playing it just because one card accidentally became good. That said I have a lot more fun playing Hero Power mage even though it’s objectively a worse off deck in most matchups. I’ve been switching back and forth.
Everybody knows how broken mage is atm. So come over 50% of my games are vs Mage? Do people really care about winning over having intergrity that much? Wheres the challenge in playing a deck that is supposed to win?
If people continue to take advantage of broken shit in the game, the state of the game will stay shit. Have some courage and integrity, dont be a part of the problem, live in the solution. Lead by example. Grow up. Theres more to life than just winning.
I remember watching an Archery competition, and one competitor broke their Bows string and couldnt shoot. The opponent saw this, and stepped up for their turn, but didnt shoot.
THEY HAD INTEGRITY and didnt want to win that way.
Hearthstone needs more people like this, winrates be damned. With rank floors at every 5 and 10, u cant lose too many ranks playing with intergrity.
What would you teach your children to do? Take advantage of others, of broken mechanics, and win at all cost!! Or, teach them about fair play and why it matters?
Just some thoughts for the day from a regular player who loves the game.
I would like to be your friend :) feel free to add me Popeye#11627 NA
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I can see where you are coming from but that is far too idealistic. People want to win, especially in Ranked where the, you know, rank matters.
There are also gradients, if someone is running top meta decks to pwn on noobs at rank 10-8S then they are an asshole undoubtedly. If they are running top meta decks in Platinum-Diamond... well that is what you signed up for if you want that rank. Top, competitive, play.
I will grant you things are kind of nuts now. I was facing mostly meta decks in 5-1 Silver last season, Gold was overwhelmingly meta decks, not sure if I saw any which were not. It is not easy to tell ofc but the weirdest deck I saw was full murloc paladin somewhere in Plat-Diamond and I am sure that is not such a weird deck and probably a T3 metadeck. (This is all speaking last season btw).
It is just how it's always going to be, people will be looking for ways to win most and those players will float to the top of the pile inevitably. You can't kill netdecking unless you kill deckbuilding, which is an idea I toyed with with my Preconstructed Mode, you can find it a few pages deep on this forum if you are curious.
Anyhow my advice to you if you want to enjoy fun homebrew decks without getting annihilated, rank tank. Try to keep your rank as low as possible, or just play Casual after intentionally sinking your MMR. You will eventually find a place where your fun decks can win, and that is probably the home for you. Wanting to change the nature of high tiers of Ranked is not happening.
exactly my brother! That is the real pandemic going on in western society.
I agree with op insofar as I really enjoy Hearthstone when I play my own decks, and I have a weird syndrome that makes me play whatever is the dumpster class of the moment, unable to ever take any satisfaction in winning with busted decks and overpowered cards.
I also can't help but rage at times at my netdecking opponents doing unfair shit turn after turn, and can't help but to have a sense of integrity using fair cards and having my shaman draw engine have me draw almost as many cards as x2 Refreshing Spring water and x2 Cram session.
However, I don't think that my enjoyment comes from the sense of integrity I get. That sense of integrity is bullshit. I like winning like anyone else. The truth is I just like being the underdog. And the satisfaction I get of winning 1 out of 3 games against meta decks is far superior to the satisfaction I would get from 2 out 3 wins with tier 1 lists.
Because of this, I personally want to play against meta decks because the kick I get is taking down with my own off-meta creation. And I want to know how good my home-brew deck is against the field, against the best decks in the field, not against some idiot like me playing weak decks.
I maybe wrong, but I suspect that op might actually want other players to play meta decks. Maybe to feel morally superior - which would be dumb, but some are like that, I know I tend to be. But maybe to actually know how good your own deck is, and to sometimes win as the underdog - which isn't dumb but should make you stop from criticizing other players from playing the best decks.
TLDR : "Where is the challenge in playing decks that are supposed to win ?" Indeed, but where is the challenge playing against decks that aren't supposed to win ?
Well said!! I am with you 100% on the satisfaction of winning that 1 game of 3 with my own creation!! over winning with some net deck.
The integrity aspect for myself is just built into always routing for the underdog, and I too take that role willingly. I was preaching , but with good intentions, trying to maybe get someone to think about it a little bit.
Any system of control/rules, like a game, requires the participants to willingly play by the rules. So if nobody played a broken deck, Blizzard would notice that as well. I also know that will never happen. LOL But maybe 1 or 2 people might just cue up something else besides Mage after reading this.
Talk to blizzard about balance, don't attack players who just want to play in a new expac.
I’ve been a Mage player since Goblins and Gnomes (my first deck was Mech Mage), and I don’t intend to quit anytime soon. I have loved All Spell Mage since it came out and now that it’s finally competitive, I’m thrilled. Even without Lunacy, it’s really good.
Also, integrity is being true to yourself, so that’s what I’m doing.
OP, we can easily turn this back on you. Where is your integrity making a SALT thread, outside of the official board SALT thread the week of a new expac.
I don't even like this deck, (I don't like random decks) I just hate the week one whining. It's not good for the game.
Danton I’m the same way. I loved deck of Lunacy (before the barrens set) but now everyone plays it so I challenge myself to find the non popular classes or lowest win rate classes and see what I can create to win with as the underdog.
You need to understand that some people have only games in life, and winning in those games is the only achievement they could ever reach in life, so tryharding with the best deck to win give them some sense of accomplishment they would never have otherwise.
I’ll take no minion mags over these POS pen flinger or tick decks. im having a blast with kaz mage and weapon rogue shreds the no minion mage
but it’s just disgusting playing toolbag paladins whipping libra pen Libra pen
Gosh, this is an unfortunate thread. I'm sorry, but in a competitive setting like a Ranked Mode, people can and will take what routes are available to them to win if that's what's important to them. You shouldn't be establishing moral positives to your own preferences, nor should you apply immorality to other people's preferences. That is - self evidently - not a good thing to do.
Also, there IS more to Ranked than getting Legend or a positive winrate. Some people are grinding wins for 500-1000 Win Hero Portraits. Some people have limited amounts of time to play the game, and are afraid of missing out later on when it comes to the season pass, so they play as much as they can with a deck that is guaranteed to win games so they won't miss out on rewards. There's no ethical throughline here, you're just refusing to take a perspective other than your own because you've decided that what you think/do is the morally right thing.
please don't bully my son
Probably because integrity has a definition, and playing with the best deck in a card game doesn't relate to it.
Your story about the archery competition was idiotic, by the way. If someone wants to test their skills against a particular competitor, and when that competitor's equipment malfunctions, he holds off on competing until his rival can compete, that's a fine and dandy personal choice, but not related to integrity.
Integrity would come into play if your equipment manager approaches you to let you know he cut opponent's bow string before the match.
Integrity might likewise come into play in hearthstone if the opponent's screen bugged out at a tournament, and the non-bugged player accepted a draw or a restart of the match due to unforeseen glitches causing a match to be decided by factors outside the game's parameters.
The difference, if there's still some confusion, is between either deliberately or accidentally obtained advantages being refused and a completely equal playing field where every player is free to play whatever deck they like. You can't even bring into play the pay to win consideration in this case, as Spell Mage is currently one of the cheaper meta decks to craft.
Something tells me the question was rhetorical, but there's your answer nonetheless.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
it's not people fault,the devs should make the game enjoyable and work for not havin a broken deck like that,c'mon there are thousand of children and just as many morons who don't give a penguin about the fun u'd like to have,what do you expect.
tonight i faced almost only broken mages.but just the fact that deck exists means you gonna massively face it till the nerfs.
expecting something different make you an utopian,wich is not good in the world we live in.
the good new is it's just a game,things in rl can get much worse.change yourself not the others or you gonna get a lot of disappoinments.end of paranoid comment.rofl
it'2 30 am in italy and i tried my best,was not enough of course,after all that lunacy mages think it's prolly better goin to sleep!cheers and sorry if i murdered your native language!god may have mercy.
I think everything that playerbase is doing is completely natural. the integrity, in terms of OP described cannot be applied to a game with millions of players and limited resources. where winning player gets awarded much more, and people dont even know who their opponents are (obviously) (and helping people wont make you feel that great in that regard), therefore everyone tends to only care about winning. and since a single game can last for hours, the pace of winning gets even more important. imagine a meta where very slow decks have 65+ % winrate, and aggro decks only having 52% winrate. I would say that people would still play aggro decks since games are faster, because the logic is simple, you either win fast or you lose fast. so when people say aggro decks dont have integrity, consider this fact.
its like saying people to use swords in wars instead of guns, because using a sword requires more skill and in general the war would be more "interactive". In reality, everyone will use a gun, or whatever is the most effective. This is like a rule of nature.
Sad, right? Same culture that came after 2000's years - doesn't matter if win or lose, the important is to participate. Yeah!
No winners anymore, only participants like robots with random programation.
Losers should be included too with winners, no ladder anymore, just anarchy please. Thanks.
integrity is for the weak, survive or die Piesan
It's particularly galling now, since the deck is 30-40% of the field, but the most broken deck in the format is always the most popular. I don't know why people enjoy playing dumb, broken decks, but they do. Oh well.
Just stop playing standard until the nerfs hit. They're apparently going to be announced early next week.
Mage is my main class and the only one I’ve played enough in ranked to have a golden portrait. I was playing spell mage the day it was created as an archetype. I wouldn’t stop playing it just because one card accidentally became good. That said I have a lot more fun playing Hero Power mage even though it’s objectively a worse off deck in most matchups. I’ve been switching back and forth.
I would like to be your friend :) feel free to add me Popeye#11627 NA