How to serve the mindless urges of the repulsive fanboy this expansion? Token Druid.
This is what the scheme of card design politics looks like. After the Hunter mindlessness for the fanboy, they took notice of the complains. Manipulative masterminds pretended a higher skill floor. But in the end it is all about serving the fanboys pack buying: mindless aggression is and will be the norm.
So bomb Warrior looks somewhat strategic, Priest is off the map, but in the end - as it has always been - the image of zoolock back then has comeback with a vengeance. Token druid shall fulfill the mindless urges of the repulsive fanboy this exp. In the end everything evolves around this entity. Constructing and drugging a lack of self respect has been shown to be a successful marketing strategy. Vulgarity its aim. Imagine what fanboys will become later in the real world due to the lessons of Blizzard: demanding things to be easy and if not....title: how civilization becomes vulgar.
Once again lack of balance, lack of strategy, low skill floor, low diversity., RPS too steep: Hearthstone is not for everyone. A fair conclusion.
I've never read this much bullshit in one post in my entire life.
Honestly? Just kill the minions. Don't make your decks so greedy. Run Doomsayer, run Hecklebot, run Abomination. And those are just the neutral options. Warlock has Shriek, Warrior has Warpath, Hunter has Explosive Trap. The deck is the best aggro deck, but it isn't unstoppable. They do run out of resources unlike Odd Paladin who could always just press the button. They present problems, just bring enough answers and you'll win.
** Edit - I should probably mention I've been playing Betrug + Plot Twist Warlock, get in ahead of the people calling me a "mindless aggro player"
Honestly? Just kill the minions. Don't make your decks so greedy. Run Doomsayer, run Hecklebot, run Abomination. And those are just the neutral options. Warlock has Shriek, Warrior has Warpath, Hunter has Explosive Trap. The deck is the best aggro deck, but it isn't unstoppable. They do run out of resources unlike Odd Paladin who could always just press the button. They present problems, just bring enough answers and you'll win.
shout it from the rooftops: kill the minions, win the game
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Hi, my name is Bomb Warrior. Everyone hated me when I was in the meta for 5 days. Now this is my friend, Token Druid. Token Druid is a stupid aggro deck, like me. Everyone hates us because we SMOrc. Token Druid would like to talk to you:
"Hi. You asked me if there are enough board clears/removal. I have been fucked to many times by warrior with Warpath, Brawl, Omega Devastator, Execute, Dr. Boom's hero powers, and Dyn-o-matic. You hate me. Sure I'm fine with that. I bet you hated Odd Paladin, Undertaker Hunter, Pre-nerf Quest Rogue, Spell Hunter, OTK Priest, and pretty much every deck with >50% winrate. I would say go to the salt thread but I'm not one of those people."
Deal with it mate. Or just play any control deck.
it isnt good when the only counter to a particular rather cheap deck is paying 15k dust or stomach up mirror matches, the game was on an all-time low when the only counter to face-hunter was 15k dust for control warrior, not many people can afford it, and on the other hand it makes the game look pay2win because that guy that could afford the control deck with a shitload of epics beats the aggro deck everytime, they should have printed cheaper low rarity aoE for other classes, hell even a reprint of Volcanic Potion would have been welcomed.
Hi, my name is Bomb Warrior. Everyone hated me when I was in the meta for 5 days. Now this is my friend, Token Druid. Token Druid is a stupid aggro deck, like me. Everyone hates us because we SMOrc. Token Druid would like to talk to you:
"Hi. You asked me if there are enough board clears/removal. I have been fucked to many times by warrior with Warpath, Brawl, Omega Devastator, Execute, Dr. Boom's hero powers, and Dyn-o-matic. You hate me. Sure I'm fine with that. I bet you hated Odd Paladin, Undertaker Hunter, Pre-nerf Quest Rogue, Spell Hunter, OTK Priest, and pretty much every deck with >50% winrate. I would say go to the salt thread but I'm not one of those people."
Deal with it mate. Or just play any control deck.
it isnt good when the only counter to a particular rather cheap deck is paying 15k dust or stomach up mirror matches, the game was on an all-time low when the only counter to face-hunter was 15k dust for control warrior, not many people can afford it, and on the other hand it makes the game look pay2win because that guy that could afford the control deck with a shitload of epics beats the aggro deck everytime, they should have printed cheaper low rarity aoE for other classes, hell even a reprint of Volcanic Potion would have been welcomed.
You are very much mistaken if you think Blizzard cares about making life easier for the free crowd.
Hearthstone isn't pay-to-win. Once you have enough cards, no amount of money you spend will increase your chances of winning.
Hearthstone is pay-to-PLAY. Unless you are extremely skilled and patient, you should not expect to compete with people who are paying money. You can start playing for free as a demo mode to see if you like it. You are not meant to play for free forever.
I don't think anyone at Blizzard would dispute this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I beat token druid consistently with midrange hunter (not the meta version on HSReplay), but I can think of a few reasons why it's getting defended:
It's not broken. It has a win rate that's within 3% of the next 7 or 8 decks beneath it. It has counters that are viable and part of those 7 or 8 other decks. It's been 1 week since the new expansion dropped.
There's no reason to cry wolf here. It's a strong deck in a meta game that's far from being fully formed. We need at least 1-2 weeks more before we start declaring a 55% win rate deck unfair.
Get token druid to trade more than go face and you're already winning.
Best of luck!
That's good for you and your points are reasonable, but is it fun to lose the game on the early turns because you didn't draw draw on of the cards you mentioned? I think not.
So what if you are not playing Hunter or a deck with not as much removal or board presence at the start of the game, should you give up? I believe Token Druid don't encourage deck diversity, have answers or lose early could hurt the game. I think some things needs to be highlighted before it becomes a big problem that hurts the game.
I want to believe you, but its a little hard when you mostly mention one version of Hunter as the answer .
Well, what is Druid going to do otherwise? They gutted combo then they gutted ramp. Do you want Druid to just flat out suck? Like, I get it, tokens and sticky minions are annoying. But again, what else are they going to do? They made it so Druid sucks otherwise, so tokens it is. And lets not imagine this is a recent "problem" token druid has been a thing since the dawn of Hearthstone. It's often complained about early in expansions because everyone is playing the greediest decks, which obviously aggressive decks and sticky minion decks punish. This is not new, at all. I guess that's why I'm defending token druid (and I don't even play it, I have no vested interest in defending it, I just don't want to see Druid disappear for another expansion).
I will tell you.
Token Druid is an deck archetype that has been around for a very long time, it's part of the class identity. What i'm trying to say is that the deck gets away with thing it shouldn't. Maybe a once per turn clause on spells like Savage Roar and Bloodlust is the way to prevent high extremely high burst damage in 1 Turn? Maybe make Soul of the Forest only give the Deathrattle to less minions could also help to turn down the power of the archetype without destroying it completely? I want the deck to still be around, just turned down in power to encourage people to play different decks.
Token Druid is not the only way to play Druid. Heal Druid is very new and is a deck i could see getting more support in the future. I have also seen some Malygos Druid decks running around. Like many people are saying, the expansion is still pretty new, so another Druid deck type might be right in front of us, but we don't see it.
Every good deck "gets away with things they shouldn't" it is up to you to balance your deck. If that means including tech against tokens, then maybe you have to do that. There are SO many strong decks out there and the Meta is still new, of course aggro is strong (it's been a while, so much combo/control last few expansions) but that's not the deck's fault. If don't like those changes you propose, if they have a board and double savage roar in hand, well, why do they have a board on turn 6/8/10+ and if they do, maybe your deck was just countered, you don't have enough against sticky boards, maybe you drew wrong...like I get that that's what token druid does (push to stick on board) so it's hard to combat but again, that's not the deck's fault. I don't find anything about token druid overpowered, again, it's been the same (basically) since vanilla, it's been strong at times but never a problem in need of a nerf. If they want to nerf something, the 1 mana 2/1 which gives 2 1/1s seems pretty busted...shouldn't a better power level for it only give 1 1/1? It would still be played/be valuable, but druid would take a small hit at the same time. The rest of the deck...are all basic sorta power level cards, what would even be nerfed? Everything in the deck, all the cards are balanced. The only thing I'd change is Acornbearer to give 1 squirrel and that's it. Oh, actually the uh Eccentric Scribe should probably be nerfed to a 5/4 and/or only summon 3 1/1 scrolls. Those two nerfs combined would make token druid balanced for me/you all probably.
Should the game be revolved around beating one deck? That would be pretty bad for the health of the game. This tread is not about beating Token Druid, it is to highlight what Token Druid can do if they draw well and you don't. A few decks could need a fix in the long run, Token Druid is one of them.
Not saying that this is the reason why the deck is so popular. Since the deck is strong and will most likely be around for a while. But token druid is very cheap to craft. People may even have all the cards from just a handfull of packs. Many people are holding onto their dust until the meta settles before crafting anything. Since for many, spending 1600 on a single legendary or 400 on 2x epics that will not see much play is very painful. Some people may not even bother crafting anything else when they already have a cheap strong deck. Token druid is just very f2p friendly.
If you play Rogue, you have a powerful deck almost every meta, you have a solid core set that mostly stays untouched, and rarely if ever are you the target of a shitstorm. Sure Blade Flurry is dead forever, Cold Blood was nerfed, and Conceal was kicked out. I guess The Caverns Below was largely despised. But then again, you are never treated with the hostility that other classes usually get whenever they are on top, like Hunter or Priest.
If you play Druid however, people hate you out of muscle memory, no matter how good or bad the class actually is. Almost all your core cards and archetypes are nerfed and mostly unplayable, yet people still say "Oh, Druid has so many good Classic and Basic cards" and if you ever get a deck with a positive winrate going, people cry for nerfs again until the currently viable archetype is trash as well. And the developers listen EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Thanks to this outrage, it's only a matter of weeks before Savage Roar and Swipe get destroyed. Are they the main culprits? Probably not, but they are basic cards. And those are played in "every Druid deck evar!!" unlike such highly situational and rarely utilized cards like Backstab or Kill Command. Obviously, Druid is not allowed to be "good". It has ONE playable archetype left that got a lot of support this expansion and is still quite beatable. But it's Druid, so people complain and they will keep complaining until it's nerfed once again.
Might as well delete the class.
It's not about allowing Druid to be good, it's about the things the class can do with minimal resources. There was a reason why Force of Nature+Savage Roar was nerfed.
There are other ways of playing Druid. Malygos Druid and Heal Druid are some of them. The expansion is still young, so other Druid deck might appear.
Nothing wrong with token druid. It's easy to beat with plenty of decks. If you don't want to play those decks and hate to lose to token druid, that's your problem.
I'm glad token druid is here. I'd hate to be in a meta where everyone plays the same archetype, and this meta has everything from aggro to control doing fine.
You seam to be misinformed, if this was the case, why is it so successful? I just don't want the game to be revolved around that particular deck, i'm just worried about the future.
Hi, my name is Bomb Warrior. Everyone hated me when I was in the meta for 5 days. Now this is my friend, Token Druid. Token Druid is a stupid aggro deck, like me. Everyone hates us because we SMOrc. Token Druid would like to talk to you:
"Hi. You asked me if there are enough board clears/removal. I have been fucked to many times by warrior with Warpath, Brawl, Omega Devastator, Execute, Dr. Boom's hero powers, and Dyn-o-matic. You hate me. Sure I'm fine with that. I bet you hated Odd Paladin, Undertaker Hunter, Pre-nerf Quest Rogue, Spell Hunter, OTK Priest, and pretty much every deck with >50% winrate. I would say go to the salt thread but I'm not one of those people."
Deal with it mate. Or just play any control deck.
it isnt good when the only counter to a particular rather cheap deck is paying 15k dust or stomach up mirror matches, the game was on an all-time low when the only counter to face-hunter was 15k dust for control warrior, not many people can afford it, and on the other hand it makes the game look pay2win because that guy that could afford the control deck with a shitload of epics beats the aggro deck everytime, they should have printed cheaper low rarity aoE for other classes, hell even a reprint of Volcanic Potion would have been welcomed.
Not saying that this is the reason why the deck is so popular. Since the deck is strong and will most likely be around for a while. But token druid is very cheap to craft. People may even have all the cards from just a handfull of packs. Many people are holding onto their dust until the meta settles before crafting anything. Since for many, spending 1600 on a single legendary or 400 on 2x epics that will not see much play is very painful. Some people may not even bother crafting anything else when they already have a cheap strong deck. Token druid is just very f2p friendly.
You just gave all the marketing reasons why the deck is so popular: f2p friendly. But that is just scratching the surface. It is not jut about money. The deck is extremely low skill, hyper aggressive and runs an overly steep RPS in a relatively diverse meta where people tryout diverse decks.
If there are so many counters against it, why then it is that popular? Mindless decks are there to lure the masses into keep playing. It's the easy win fix that does it, even when the win rate is relatively not that higher than other decks. No reason to assume it is healthy for the meta. It's there to sell the packs, while it ruins the meta by overrepresentation. People going to tech against it or play a counter which in turn block out other more interesting decks for a healthy, diverse meta.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Aggro decks and control decks are not that far apart skill wise. As the aggro player you have to calculate damage for turns up ahead and make decisions based on it to go face or trade. The damage calculation is also needed for how much to play into removal and how much pressure to put up.
The control player are just playing the reversed role. As the control player, you have decide when and how to spend your removal and how big risks you can take while holding onto the removal.
It is esentially the same thing just on the opposite ends of the scales. Aggro decks are in general just much cheaper to craft and have much shorter games.
Why is this thread so long, the reason is because people like winning.
And who ever defended it? Literally all over Hearthpwn there's these threads "Token Druid: the New Cancer" "Token Druid, the new meta" "fuck token druid". There's definitely negativity about Token Druid. There's always gonna be consistently good decks, like Odd Paladin, which even after the nerf was one of the best decks in the Standard meta. I don't really see a problem with it, it's a good aggro deck, who ever heard of that? The main reason everyone plays it is because it's cheap and effective. Just like Odd Paladin! Why nerf anything that has a good winrate. And by the way, what deck do you play?
All his posts are like that.
Honestly? Just kill the minions. Don't make your decks so greedy. Run Doomsayer, run Hecklebot, run Abomination. And those are just the neutral options. Warlock has Shriek, Warrior has Warpath, Hunter has Explosive Trap. The deck is the best aggro deck, but it isn't unstoppable. They do run out of resources unlike Odd Paladin who could always just press the button. They present problems, just bring enough answers and you'll win.
**
Edit - I should probably mention I've been playing Betrug + Plot Twist Warlock, get in ahead of the people calling me a "mindless aggro player"
shout it from the rooftops: kill the minions, win the game
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
e
it isnt good when the only counter to a particular rather cheap deck is paying 15k dust or stomach up mirror matches, the game was on an all-time low when the only counter to face-hunter was 15k dust for control warrior, not many people can afford it, and on the other hand it makes the game look pay2win because that guy that could afford the control deck with a shitload of epics beats the aggro deck everytime, they should have printed cheaper low rarity aoE for other classes, hell even a reprint of Volcanic Potion would have been welcomed.
You are very much mistaken if you think Blizzard cares about making life easier for the free crowd.
Hearthstone isn't pay-to-win. Once you have enough cards, no amount of money you spend will increase your chances of winning.
Hearthstone is pay-to-PLAY. Unless you are extremely skilled and patient, you should not expect to compete with people who are paying money. You can start playing for free as a demo mode to see if you like it. You are not meant to play for free forever.
I don't think anyone at Blizzard would dispute this.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I simply believe things needs to be turned down, before too much damage is inflicted. Why is that so bad?
That's good for you and your points are reasonable, but is it fun to lose the game on the early turns because you didn't draw draw on of the cards you mentioned? I think not.
So what if you are not playing Hunter or a deck with not as much removal or board presence at the start of the game, should you give up? I believe Token Druid don't encourage deck diversity, have answers or lose early could hurt the game. I think some things needs to be highlighted before it becomes a big problem that hurts the game.
I want to believe you, but its a little hard when you mostly mention one version of Hunter as the answer .
I see your logic, but if thing are like this, something isn't right.
This Thread is not about beating Token Druid, it is to open peoples eyes to something that could be oppressive in the future if not cheeped in check.
Should the game be revolved around beating one deck? That would be pretty bad for the health of the game. This tread is not about beating Token Druid, it is to highlight what Token Druid can do if they draw well and you don't. A few decks could need a fix in the long run, Token Druid is one of them.
Not saying that this is the reason why the deck is so popular. Since the deck is strong and will most likely be around for a while. But token druid is very cheap to craft. People may even have all the cards from just a handfull of packs. Many people are holding onto their dust until the meta settles before crafting anything. Since for many, spending 1600 on a single legendary or 400 on 2x epics that will not see much play is very painful. Some people may not even bother crafting anything else when they already have a cheap strong deck. Token druid is just very f2p friendly.
Stop whining like a baby and just play the game gaw
It's not about allowing Druid to be good, it's about the things the class can do with minimal resources. There was a reason why Force of Nature+Savage Roar was nerfed.
There are other ways of playing Druid. Malygos Druid and Heal Druid are some of them. The expansion is still young, so other Druid deck might appear.
The same reason they defend any other deck...it can lose. There is a salt thread and we really need to start enforcing it on this site...
You seam to be misinformed, if this was the case, why is it so successful? I just don't want the game to be revolved around that particular deck, i'm just worried about the future.
Here we have someone who get's the message!
You just gave all the marketing reasons why the deck is so popular: f2p friendly. But that is just scratching the surface. It is not jut about money. The deck is extremely low skill, hyper aggressive and runs an overly steep RPS in a relatively diverse meta where people tryout diverse decks.
If there are so many counters against it, why then it is that popular? Mindless decks are there to lure the masses into keep playing. It's the easy win fix that does it, even when the win rate is relatively not that higher than other decks. No reason to assume it is healthy for the meta. It's there to sell the packs, while it ruins the meta by overrepresentation. People going to tech against it or play a counter which in turn block out other more interesting decks for a healthy, diverse meta.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Aggro decks and control decks are not that far apart skill wise. As the aggro player you have to calculate damage for turns up ahead and make decisions based on it to go face or trade. The damage calculation is also needed for how much to play into removal and how much pressure to put up.
The control player are just playing the reversed role. As the control player, you have decide when and how to spend your removal and how big risks you can take while holding onto the removal.
It is esentially the same thing just on the opposite ends of the scales. Aggro decks are in general just much cheaper to craft and have much shorter games.
Why is this thread so long, the reason is because people like winning.
And who ever defended it? Literally all over Hearthpwn there's these threads "Token Druid: the New Cancer" "Token Druid, the new meta" "fuck token druid". There's definitely negativity about Token Druid. There's always gonna be consistently good decks, like Odd Paladin, which even after the nerf was one of the best decks in the Standard meta. I don't really see a problem with it, it's a good aggro deck, who ever heard of that? The main reason everyone plays it is because it's cheap and effective. Just like Odd Paladin! Why nerf anything that has a good winrate. And by the way, what deck do you play?
Please play more token druid. Currently 18-0 with Control Warrior vs Token Druid. Even when I make poor plays I always top deck an answer. Rank 2.