Anybody could see why token druid is too strong right now. It's not a complicated deck and it's interactions with other decks are not complicated enough to warrant waiting forever for nerfs, as is usually the case. There needs to be more efficient board clears or less board flooding, it's that simple.
Voicing your concern for a game you care about should be encouraged if the game is going to get better. If you don't agree with them about the state of the game, that's fine. Discuss that. But mocking them is uncalled for and immature.
Druid doesn't have to abandon the token archetype altogether. They don't have to suck they just need tweaking so their counter works against them moreso than not. This doesn't need to turn into rock paper scissors the card game but as it stands druids ability to flood the board is more efficient than any control deck. This should not be the case regardless of how long this issue has been around with aggro decks, and fixing it requires more than just a few nerfs every expansion.
It doesn't have very strong counters and it's counters are limited to only a few classes. This is the result of a larger issue. The fact that the neutral card control package is basically nonexistent. I understand that adding that would detract form the identities of aggressive classes like hunter and warlock (control lock is dead so it's basically just zoo now) but that's preferable to the unbalanced mess we have now. And at least that way you have the option to counter any playstyle with any class, even if you're making a suboptimal deck.
It doesn't have very strong counters and it's counters are limited to only a few classes. This is the result of a larger issue. The fact that the neutral card control package is basically nonexistent. I understand that adding that would detract form the identities of aggressive classes like hunter and warlock (control lock is dead so it's basically just zoo now) but that's preferable to the unbalanced mess we have now. And at least that way you have the option to counter any playstyle with any class, even if you're making a suboptimal deck.
What's the point of having 9 different classes if they all have the same strengths and weaknesses? Each class does not need to be able to craft a deck to appropriately counter every possible 30 card combination in the game at all times.
What exactly would you call balanced? The top 7 decks according to hsreplay belong to 7 different classes with the eighth and ninth not to far behind. From that I'd say the game is balanced decently for class diversity. If it's archetype AND class diversity you want, adding enough good neutral control options to allow each class to counter every aggro deck out there would simply warp the meta to favor control.
It doesn't have very strong counters and it's counters are limited to only a few classes. This is the result of a larger issue. The fact that the neutral card control package is basically nonexistent. I understand that adding that would detract form the identities of aggressive classes like hunter and warlock (control lock is dead so it's basically just zoo now) but that's preferable to the unbalanced mess we have now. And at least that way you have the option to counter any playstyle with any class, even if you're making a suboptimal deck.
What's the point of having 9 different classes if they all have the same strengths and weaknesses? Each class does not need to be able to craft a deck to appropriately counter every possible 30 card combination in the game at all times.
What exactly would you call balanced? The top 7 decks according to hsreplay belong to 7 different classes with the eighth and ninth not to far behind. From that I'd say the game is balanced decently for class diversity. If it's archetype AND class diversity you want, adding enough good neutral control options to allow each class to counter every aggro deck out there would simply warp the meta to favor control.
You're speaking to a vocal control-oriented minority. They don't understand logic that points to anything other than favoring their main playstyle.
I think Token Druid is mostly fine. The one change I would like to is Savage Roar sent to HoF though, that card has been a problem since Naxx and has never stopped being a problem. You wanna give Druid 10,000 ways to fill the board? Fine by me, but also leave Roar in the evergreen while you're printing non-stop board generation. People enjoy playing HS because they want to make decisions, they want strategy and they want to weigh risk to reward. When you have a card like Roar in token Druid, it removes all the decision making because suddenly the threat is too great to NOT make a minion trade every single time, no matter how stupid it is. I'm still running massive big minions into wisp because that one burst card is dangerous enough to instantly KO my hero. That's dumb, it feels stupid because it is stupid.
I think the problem of druid now is not it's too op, but it's too stable.
This exactly. Randomness has been implemented in Hearthstone for years now, every class has cards with random effects to manage in order to optimize their value. Token Druid has NO random effect. Everything is consistent, you don't rely on RNG coming from your deck at any time where all other classes have to play around RNG to get powerful effects (Blink Fox, Conjurer's calling, etc). It does what it is meant to do, and you have no surprise at all when you play cards. This, in addition to repeatable and stacking identical effects either flooding the board or boosting it, or both, makes it way too stable compared to other classes.
Just take a look at the tier 1 decks, they all have almost no to no RNG at all. One could argue that cards like Dyn-o-matic, Oblivitron, Waggle Pick and stuff actually have RNG effects, but how easy is it to actually make them proc the way you want?
All classes should be equal RNG-wise. Otherwise it becomes like playing poker with a cheater who consistantly always has a good hand, but all you can do as a regular player is pray for a better one.
Just curious, do Token Druid players try to control the board until they have lethal like Zoo often does? Or do they simply try to stack face damage until the opponent is overwhelmed?
Seems like they could play either way, but I most often see the 2nd. (But, then I'm usually playing warrior so maybe that is the best way to play vs. Warrior and the deck plays more of a control game vs. other heroes?)
Anybody could see why token druid is too strong right now. It's not a complicated deck and it's interactions with other decks are not complicated enough to warrant waiting forever for nerfs, as is usually the case. There needs to be more efficient board clears or less board flooding, it's that simple.
Voicing your concern for a game you care about should be encouraged if the game is going to get better. If you don't agree with them about the state of the game, that's fine. Discuss that. But mocking them is uncalled for and immature.
Because it is not op? I Play token druid and a small part of me is broke whenever my opponent play a big fat taunt.
Druid doesn't have to abandon the token archetype altogether. They don't have to suck they just need tweaking so their counter works against them moreso than not. This doesn't need to turn into rock paper scissors the card game but as it stands druids ability to flood the board is more efficient than any control deck. This should not be the case regardless of how long this issue has been around with aggro decks, and fixing it requires more than just a few nerfs every expansion.
It doesn't have very strong counters and it's counters are limited to only a few classes. This is the result of a larger issue. The fact that the neutral card control package is basically nonexistent. I understand that adding that would detract form the identities of aggressive classes like hunter and warlock (control lock is dead so it's basically just zoo now) but that's preferable to the unbalanced mess we have now. And at least that way you have the option to counter any playstyle with any class, even if you're making a suboptimal deck.
Maybe you suck just as much as I do because taunts seem to die too quickly to match the value of token druid, even if I manage to draw them all.
You do know that you could just put everything into one post, right?
What's the point of having 9 different classes if they all have the same strengths and weaknesses? Each class does not need to be able to craft a deck to appropriately counter every possible 30 card combination in the game at all times.
What exactly would you call balanced? The top 7 decks according to hsreplay belong to 7 different classes with the eighth and ninth not to far behind. From that I'd say the game is balanced decently for class diversity. If it's archetype AND class diversity you want, adding enough good neutral control options to allow each class to counter every aggro deck out there would simply warp the meta to favor control.
You're speaking to a vocal control-oriented minority. They don't understand logic that points to anything other than favoring their main playstyle.
I think Token Druid is mostly fine. The one change I would like to is Savage Roar sent to HoF though, that card has been a problem since Naxx and has never stopped being a problem. You wanna give Druid 10,000 ways to fill the board? Fine by me, but also leave Roar in the evergreen while you're printing non-stop board generation. People enjoy playing HS because they want to make decisions, they want strategy and they want to weigh risk to reward. When you have a card like Roar in token Druid, it removes all the decision making because suddenly the threat is too great to NOT make a minion trade every single time, no matter how stupid it is. I'm still running massive big minions into wisp because that one burst card is dangerous enough to instantly KO my hero. That's dumb, it feels stupid because it is stupid.
It's not even the 8 mana Twin Spell that's the problem, it's the deathrattle summon a 2/2 Treant, were it not for that, Token Druid would be mediocre.
I think the problem of druid now is not it's too op, but it's too stable.
My solution will be adding RNG to cards summoning minions (-2 to current number of wisps/treants)
This exactly. Randomness has been implemented in Hearthstone for years now, every class has cards with random effects to manage in order to optimize their value. Token Druid has NO random effect. Everything is consistent, you don't rely on RNG coming from your deck at any time where all other classes have to play around RNG to get powerful effects (Blink Fox, Conjurer's calling, etc). It does what it is meant to do, and you have no surprise at all when you play cards. This, in addition to repeatable and stacking identical effects either flooding the board or boosting it, or both, makes it way too stable compared to other classes.
Just take a look at the tier 1 decks, they all have almost no to no RNG at all. One could argue that cards like Dyn-o-matic, Oblivitron, Waggle Pick and stuff actually have RNG effects, but how easy is it to actually make them proc the way you want?
All classes should be equal RNG-wise. Otherwise it becomes like playing poker with a cheater who consistantly always has a good hand, but all you can do as a regular player is pray for a better one.
I'm agree with this too.
Yo mr Token Druid is so OP, where are you now?
Still crying?
Just curious, do Token Druid players try to control the board until they have lethal like Zoo often does? Or do they simply try to stack face damage until the opponent is overwhelmed?
Seems like they could play either way, but I most often see the 2nd. (But, then I'm usually playing warrior so maybe that is the best way to play vs. Warrior and the deck plays more of a control game vs. other heroes?)
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Oh i'm still here, don't worry.