It's fine IMO. The deck requires a low IQ and low skill floor to pilot. It's like Raza Priest. A complete net deck. Anyone running this deck should be ashamed of themselves.
I think I need to make a serious comparison here because we're now having the same issue we once had before. Quest Rogue. Although Tier 3, and the W/R not being that high, once completed, you knew it was basically over for you. All the "just play aggro" arguments is moot because it shuts out everything else that isn't aggro. Quest Rogue was eventually nerfed. TWICE. Because once the quest was obtained, you basically lost.
This seems to be prevalent issue with Shudderwock as well now. Once played, you automatically lose. You almost always lose once it's played. What can you do once it's played? Nothing. Besides lay down a couple taunt minions, hero power, and wait for the next 5-10 Shudderwocks next turn. It's literally the same issue that Quest Rogue posed before. Almost always losing once it's played. I don't know how or if Blizzard will nerf it, but, I can see this being dealt with in the same manner.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Did you forget that Skulking Geist wrecked Jade Druid right outta any tier list when it was released? I mean, that counts as a single card that hard counters someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Did you forget that Skulking Geist wrecked Jade Druid right outta any tier list when it was released? I mean, that counts as a single card that hard counters someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Not to mention Deathlord destroys Combo Druid decks like 70% of the time. You're lucky if it pulls Ironbark/Fandral/Faceless.
The deck itself has a 0 skill ceiling. If you’re gonna do anything just get rid of it in general. Decks completely unfun. And worst designed card of this expansion.
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-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Did you forget that Skulking Geist wrecked Jade Druid right outta any tier list when it was released? I mean, that counts as a single card that hard counters someone else's entire deck/win condition.
This is simply untrue. Do you not remember the meta of jade druid dominance in the start of frozen throne? It was by far the best deck, Skulking Geist in no way won you the game against it. Jade druid didnt fade until the nerfs. Infact, Skulking Geist was regarded as a flop, and was mostly teched because it could help against raza priest by removing the Holy Smite and lowering the OTK burst significantly.
I think the card itself is a big problem as its a potential enabler for broken combos and it will only get worse with coming expansions. Shudderwock just autowins against slow control decks which is the same shit we had with quest-rogue before and feels super frustrating. The deck has only such a low perfomance score because most players are bad at piloting the deck. Shudderwock can easily beat most control decks if played right. only bad matchup is token druid
For one, please don't nerf Grumble. I'm disappointed when some card gets nerfed away from their original intent (such as the way Naga got nerfed, not that I wasn't happy that she was nerfed). The only change I would be fine with for Sauronite would be the battle cry to be changed to a "summon a copy of this minion at the end of your turn" instead, since that would be pretty cool with Spikeridged Steed. As for the animations, the difficult part is that it can be important to know what cards they got in their hand from the Shudderwock. For example, knowing which minion the Zola battlecry triggered on could mean the difference between a winnable and unwinnable game. I haven't played against a Shudderwock deck in a little so maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but one thing that could be done to improve the animation timer would be to have the card show at the same time the battlecry effect plays. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly and it already works like that though.
Exactly, the problem is that in Standard you HAVE NO WAY TO STOP THE COMBO. You have aboslutely no way to stop Shuderowck battle cry. You may try to have your opponent discard by letting your opponent overdraw (with Naturalize or Gnomferatu for example) but hey, good luck. The Suddrwock card itslef is OK, the problem is it stacks the battlecries from other cards, and you cant stop it.
There is no way to guarantee you stop the combo, in Wild or in Standard. A mechanic that does such a thing would be awful for the game. No single card should be a hard counter to someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Did you forget that Skulking Geist wrecked Jade Druid right outta any tier list when it was released? I mean, that counts as a single card that hard counters someone else's entire deck/win condition.
This is simply untrue. Do you not remember the meta of jade druid dominance in the start of frozen throne? It was by far the best deck, Skulking Geist in no way won you the game against it. Jade druid didnt fade until the nerfs. Infact, Skulking Geist was regarded as a flop, and was mostly teched because it could help against raza priest by removing the Holy Smite and lowering the OTK burst significantly.
I stand corrected on that aspect. It was the best deck due to Spreading Plague (un-nerfed), Ultimate Infestation and Innervate (un-nerfed). Skulking Geist was regarded as a flop, however, point still stands that Skulking Geist hard counters the Jade Idol win condition.
Shudderwock should be nerfed in some way. Or, as many are asking for, for Dirty Rat to be put into the Classic set. One card should not swing so hard that it auto wins you the game. As i've stated before, it's in the same category of auto-win that Quest Rogue used to be, before it was nerfed the first time. I'm paraphrasing.
Like, sometimes, I think about freakin' giving up playing Hearthstone when I'm against a Shudderwock combo deck.
You can't do anything but cry when it starts the damn combo, and then, he plays the first Shudderwock (healing 12 and dealing 12 damage) and, most of times, playing the second Shudderwock 1-cost, dealing 12 damage and healing 12 damage again.
How EXACTLY this is fun, or can be countered? It's just ridiculous. (frustrating image)
Why are we talking about nerfing a deck that isn't tier 1 exactly?
And before the "because it's not fun to play against" answer comes up keep in mind you can find an reason to call pretty much any deck to not be fun to play against.
Grumble reducing cost by 3 instead would be a very healthy change. You're still getting 3 mana Fire Elemental or whatever else was intended for Grumble to be played with, and can dump your hand. It just helps against stupid 1 mana Shudderwocks which are clearly broken.
I wish Shudderwock was used more in non-combo decks, like with Twilight Drake and stuff just to make a big lategame minion. He can remain viable in Grumble combo or outside of it.
I always thought that Shudderwock bouncing back as 1 mana through Grumble's battlecry was an oversight. A card like Shudderwock shouldn't be played more than once per turn (and definitely not 10 times per turn). Nerfing Grumblewould suck since that card wasn't even used much before Witchwood. My idea toward nerfing Shudderwock is make its mana set to 9, overriding all mana reductions and increases and forcing players to use it once per turn. I don't really care about what tier the deck is. I am more concerned how much design space would be limited if Shudderwock isn't changed.
Or maybe learn to play and beat it easily, instead of crying on forum?
What is that, tier 3 deck? If you loose against it you must play some super greedy control nad you get punished for your greediness.
Did you read any of the previous posts? Quest Rogue was Tier 2-3 before. How many times did that get nerfed? Oh, right, twice. There isn't anything really to learn. It's play an aggro deck, and hope to go face before he can wipe you, or you lose. Control decks almost auto lose against it.
The problem isn't that we can't kill it. The problem is that once it's played, you almost always lose. Just like how Quest Rogue was before it was nerfed the first time. Reiteration seems to be a thing on this forum since no one reads previous posts.
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It's fine IMO. The deck requires a low IQ and low skill floor to pilot. It's like Raza Priest. A complete net deck. Anyone running this deck should be ashamed of themselves.
Hello!
I think I need to make a serious comparison here because we're now having the same issue we once had before. Quest Rogue. Although Tier 3, and the W/R not being that high, once completed, you knew it was basically over for you. All the "just play aggro" arguments is moot because it shuts out everything else that isn't aggro. Quest Rogue was eventually nerfed. TWICE. Because once the quest was obtained, you basically lost.
This seems to be prevalent issue with Shudderwock as well now. Once played, you automatically lose. You almost always lose once it's played. What can you do once it's played? Nothing. Besides lay down a couple taunt minions, hero power, and wait for the next 5-10 Shudderwocks next turn. It's literally the same issue that Quest Rogue posed before. Almost always losing once it's played. I don't know how or if Blizzard will nerf it, but, I can see this being dealt with in the same manner.
Destructive Runes [/card] procs after [card] Shudderwock completes it's battle cry ,making copies etc
Did you forget that Skulking Geist wrecked Jade Druid right outta any tier list when it was released? I mean, that counts as a single card that hard counters someone else's entire deck/win condition.
Not to mention Deathlord destroys Combo Druid decks like 70% of the time. You're lucky if it pulls Ironbark/Fandral/Faceless.
Most annoying card, seriously.
I think that this would be EXTREMELY good.
The deck itself has a 0 skill ceiling. If you’re gonna do anything just get rid of it in general. Decks completely unfun. And worst designed card of this expansion.
-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
This quote sums up my thoughts on any Shudderwock nerfs. I don't mind him or Grumble, but Saronite is what really needs a little tune-up.
Should nerf . If very annoying .
This is simply untrue. Do you not remember the meta of jade druid dominance in the start of frozen throne? It was by far the best deck, Skulking Geist in no way won you the game against it. Jade druid didnt fade until the nerfs. Infact, Skulking Geist was regarded as a flop, and was mostly teched because it could help against raza priest by removing the Holy Smite and lowering the OTK burst significantly.
I think the card itself is a big problem as its a potential enabler for broken combos and it will only get worse with coming expansions. Shudderwock just autowins against slow control decks which is the same shit we had with quest-rogue before and feels super frustrating. The deck has only such a low perfomance score because most players are bad at piloting the deck. Shudderwock can easily beat most control decks if played right. only bad matchup is token druid
For one, please don't nerf Grumble. I'm disappointed when some card gets nerfed away from their original intent (such as the way Naga got nerfed, not that I wasn't happy that she was nerfed). The only change I would be fine with for Sauronite would be the battle cry to be changed to a "summon a copy of this minion at the end of your turn" instead, since that would be pretty cool with Spikeridged Steed. As for the animations, the difficult part is that it can be important to know what cards they got in their hand from the Shudderwock. For example, knowing which minion the Zola battlecry triggered on could mean the difference between a winnable and unwinnable game. I haven't played against a Shudderwock deck in a little so maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but one thing that could be done to improve the animation timer would be to have the card show at the same time the battlecry effect plays. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly and it already works like that though.
I stand corrected on that aspect. It was the best deck due to Spreading Plague (un-nerfed), Ultimate Infestation and Innervate (un-nerfed). Skulking Geist was regarded as a flop, however, point still stands that Skulking Geist hard counters the Jade Idol win condition.
Shudderwock should be nerfed in some way. Or, as many are asking for, for Dirty Rat to be put into the Classic set. One card should not swing so hard that it auto wins you the game. As i've stated before, it's in the same category of auto-win that Quest Rogue used to be, before it was nerfed the first time. I'm paraphrasing.
Like, sometimes, I think about freakin' giving up playing Hearthstone when I'm against a Shudderwock combo deck.
You can't do anything but cry when it starts the damn combo, and then, he plays the first Shudderwock (healing 12 and dealing 12 damage) and, most of times, playing the second Shudderwock 1-cost, dealing 12 damage and healing 12 damage again.
How EXACTLY this is fun, or can be countered? It's just ridiculous. (frustrating image)
No need to nerf grumbles, saronite chain gang is a better target
Why are we talking about nerfing a deck that isn't tier 1 exactly?
And before the "because it's not fun to play against" answer comes up keep in mind you can find an reason to call pretty much any deck to not be fun to play against.
Grumble reducing cost by 3 instead would be a very healthy change. You're still getting 3 mana Fire Elemental or whatever else was intended for Grumble to be played with, and can dump your hand. It just helps against stupid 1 mana Shudderwocks which are clearly broken.
I wish Shudderwock was used more in non-combo decks, like with Twilight Drake and stuff just to make a big lategame minion. He can remain viable in Grumble combo or outside of it.
Just change the Saronite Chain Gang to summon a 2/3 minion with taunt.
I will crush you!
I always thought that Shudderwock bouncing back as 1 mana through Grumble's battlecry was an oversight. A card like Shudderwock shouldn't be played more than once per turn (and definitely not 10 times per turn). Nerfing Grumblewould suck since that card wasn't even used much before Witchwood. My idea toward nerfing Shudderwock is make its mana set to 9, overriding all mana reductions and increases and forcing players to use it once per turn. I don't really care about what tier the deck is. I am more concerned how much design space would be limited if Shudderwock isn't changed.
Did you read any of the previous posts? Quest Rogue was Tier 2-3 before. How many times did that get nerfed? Oh, right, twice. There isn't anything really to learn. It's play an aggro deck, and hope to go face before he can wipe you, or you lose. Control decks almost auto lose against it.
The problem isn't that we can't kill it. The problem is that once it's played, you almost always lose. Just like how Quest Rogue was before it was nerfed the first time. Reiteration seems to be a thing on this forum since no one reads previous posts.